I’ve been wondering which is better for a while. On one hand, you have much more condition damage, and decent precision to proc bleeds… on the other hand, you have maximized (probably) precision with some decent base power and condition damage.
I assume rampager would be better for general-purpose playing (so, for example, that extra bit of power would help against objects and so on), but I’d still like input.
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I’m assuming we’re talking about PvE/WvW rampager stats, which are a bit different from the PvP rampager amulet.
If you’re wondering about damage, rampager will do way more damage than rabid, because grenades scale quite well with power. Use ruby jewels in your trinkets and you’ll be dealing massive amounts of direct damage as well as high burning/bleeding/poison ticks.
However, with dire/rabid/noble runes and foodbuffs you can get a ridiculous amount of condition damage and still be a full tank.
tl;dr rampager’s will always do more total damage but at an obvious cost to survivability.
Would you recommend getting 100% condition duration? It’s already easy to get 70% with Koi Cake (which gives condition damage) giving 40% and the 30% from traits. I can get 20% more from 2 Giver weapons (which I can easily get my hands on). The last 10% can be from some runes I’ll decide on later. Thoughts?
“Retired” characters: Fruit Salad (Warrior), Blingerton (Engineer), Shixard (Ranger).
Current characters: Mistress Viridi (Elementalist), Pigeon Opener (Engineer).
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i think we have better rune choices than anything that includes 10% condi duration
personally im a big fan of giver weapons, duration is the only multiplicative increase you can get for a condi build. you sacrifice 180 condi damage, which is prolly ~10% of your condi damage, and since you have <200% condi duration you get back >10% overall damage. the numbers can vary, but its worth it even if just for the extra duration on non-damaging condis. 5 sec immobs are beast, 12 sec chills are plain ridiculous.
JQ: Rikkity
head here to discuss wvw without fear of infractions
What Traits/Skills would you use in a PVE build with Rampager gear?
30/5/0/25/10 or 30/0/0/30/10 HGH are good builds for condition grenade.
30/5/0/10/25 is also possible but more suited for Berserker.
@ DesertRose.2031 – Thank you! I’m new to the game so I’m afraid I might abuse of your kindness. Could you please point out which skills/kits would work best with the those builds? If it’s not asking too much, maybe point out the major traits too?
Explosives II, VII or VIII (shorter cooldown to spam more bleed with Grenade Kit #2 or more direct damage) and obivously XI.
Tools VI.
Alchemy I and IX, VI or IV for a non-HGH build.
Alchemy I or II and X and XI for a HGH build.
Tools VI, IX and Alchemy I for the build with 25 in Tools.
For a HGH build it’s Elixir H (healing skill) and Grenade Kit and Elixir B, as the last utility skill often Elixir S is used.
For a non-HGH build it depends on your preferences, group and content; I can only tell you my preferences here:
Ever since the Tool Belt skill of Elixir Gun got a stun breaker it hardly ever leaves my bar, it provides a stun break, a relatively fast recharging blast finisher and a AoE condition remove (Elixir Gun #5 removes one condition on impact).
In PvE I like to use Bomb Kit as my last utility skill; Bomb Kit #4 and #5 are a great to kite mobs, and with Bomb Kit #2 I have a fire field to give myself (and nearby allies) Might with Bomb Kit Tool Belt skill, Shield #4, Detonate Healing Turret and Elixir Gun #4.
In WvW I like to use the Tool Kit, #3 deals a lot of damage, with #5 you can pull enemies from walls and then kill them, and #4 is the best block regarding block duration/recharge time.
Outside of a HGH build Healing Turret is most likely the best healing skill Engineers have and it’s what I use in PvE but in WvW I have better results with the Med Kit; try both and see what you like more.
While Rampager properly deals slightly more damage in solo PvE Berserker scales better in groups, so I advice you to not bother with Rampager in PvE.
What do you mean by “Berserker scales better in groups”?
Condition cap.
I understand that. But I tend to play with certain people I know, not PuGs, and I know they don’t use (or focus on) condition damage most of the time. So even if they use conditions, I will probably override theirs.
“Retired” characters: Fruit Salad (Warrior), Blingerton (Engineer), Shixard (Ranger).
Current characters: Mistress Viridi (Elementalist), Pigeon Opener (Engineer).
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While Rampager properly deals slightly more damage in solo PvE Berserker scales better in groups, so I advice you to not bother with Rampager in PvE.
What do you mean by “Berserker scales better in groups”?
Condition cap.
I understand that. But I tend to play with certain people I know, not PuGs, and I know they don’t use (or focus on) condition damage most of the time. So even if they use conditions, I will probably override theirs.
The thing is, if you were using direct damage, then you wouldn’t need to overwrite their conditions, and so their conditions would do full damage on top of their direct damage.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
What do you mean by “Berserker scales better in groups”?
There are only few ways to increase the condition damage of your allies (Banner of Strength and Might, have I forgotten something?) while there are a lot of ways to increase the direct damage of your allies (Banner of Strength, Banner of Discipline, Spotter, Empower Allies, “FgJ!”, Might, Fury, Vulnerability); with direct damage you not only avoid the condition cap but also make better use of your allies’ buffs.
Berserker is the best direct damage set (Assassin may be a little bit better if you have lots of Power, like 25 stacks of Might and 25 stacks of Bloodlust), so it’s the best choice for groups if your professions has a decent power build.
What about rampager gear with zerker trinkets? I’ve heard that suggestion somewhere.
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with direct damage you not only avoid the condition cap but also make better use of your allies’ buffs.
You say this like Rampager gear doesn’t make use of that additional Power.
Rampager builds still have high Power, and with their massive Precision pool they arguably make better use of Critical Damage buffs than Berserker does. While it may be true that Berserker has higher Critical Damage overall, the Bleeding and Burning of the Grenade Kit already outperforms this at base levels.
So as nice a 15% increase in Critical Damage you get from Banner of Discipline is … it’s not really going to change much about this. The only real criticism you can have about the Grenade Kit as a Condition Damage option is hitting the cap, which really depends on party composition and is rarely an issue in 5-man groups.
You say this like Rampager gear doesn’t make use of that additional Power.
(…)
“A scales better than B” doesn’t mean “B doesn’t scale at all”.
Berserker is the best set for direct damage, and your allies can increase your direct damage better than your condition damage; therefor no other item type gains as much from your team as Berserker.
Condition damage also has another drawback in PvE: It takes some time to get going. A Grenade Kit Engineer needs roughly 20 seconds to apply 20+ stacks of Bleed and deal full damage.
Condition damage grenade is nice because you can use gear with one or two defensive stats like Carrion, Rabid or Dire without cutting your damage too much; however if you want to go all-out damage I don’t see the reason why one should choose Rampager over Berserker.
And Burning with the Grenade Kit? Don’t tell me you use Incendiary Powder instead of Shrapnel.
You say this like Rampager gear doesn’t make use of that additional Power.
(…)
“A scales better than B” doesn’t mean “B doesn’t scale at all”.
Berserker is the best set for direct damage, and your allies can increase your direct damage better than your condition damage; therefor no other item type gains as much from your team as Berserker.
In terms of direct damage, sure. I just disagree with the assertion that putting a Banner of Discipline on the ground is “better” for a Berserker Engineer versus a Rampager Engineer. They both make use of the Critical Damage and Precision, so if Rampager did more before the buff, it’ll still do more after the buff.
Condition damage also has another drawback in PvE: It takes some time to get going. A Grenade Kit Engineer needs roughly 20 seconds to apply 20+ stacks of Bleed and deal full damage.
Condition damage grenade is nice because you can use gear with one or two defensive stats like Carrion, Rabid or Dire without cutting your damage too much; however if you want to go all-out damage I don’t see the reason why one should choose Rampager over Berserker.
Well, if you design your builds around the first 20 seconds of combat that’s entirely your call.
And Burning with the Grenade Kit? Don’t tell me you use Incendiary Powder instead of Shrapnel.
I do. I never understood the recent obsession over Shrapnel.
Nobody ran it before Incendiary Powder was changed. You could get to the cap without it between Shrapnel Grenade, Sigil of Earth, and Sharpshooter with 100% Condition Duration.
And you still can.
Anyway, the OP asked for what was the best Condi Damage insignia for Grenade Kit Engineers. And I still stand by the argument that is Rampager. He established that he plays with a group of players where the cap isn’t an issue, and it’s how he wants to play his Engineer.
I don’t pve with my engineer. For WVW, Dire with rabid accessories (30/0/0/30/10 nade/bombs/whatever). That gives you 23k hps, 2700 armor, 1500 base con (easy 2k+ w/stacks and might), and ~20% crit chance which is plenty enough to get the burning going. Couple that with protection injection + automated response, and you are tough to kill all while laying down a ton of condition dmg.
Seems like we’re never going to reach a conclusion like this. rolls eyes
DesertRose, I appreciate all your input, but.. I think you missed the first word in the title. No offense or anything.
Phineas Poe, if I may ask: what build do you use?
“Retired” characters: Fruit Salad (Warrior), Blingerton (Engineer), Shixard (Ranger).
Current characters: Mistress Viridi (Elementalist), Pigeon Opener (Engineer).
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Seems like we’re never going to reach a conclusion like this. rolls eyes
DesertRose, I appreciate all your input, but.. I think you missed the first word in the title. No offense or anything.
Phineas Poe, if I may ask: what build do you use?
When running the Grenade Kit in PvE, I usually run one of two builds.
If I’m concerned with Condition Damage, I run 30/30/0/10/0. In Firearms I take Precise Sights, Infused Precision (to proc Invigorating Speed), and either Napalm Specialist (to help Incendiary Powder) or Fireforged Trigger (if running the Elixir Gun).
If I’m concerned with Power, like if there’s a Necro in the group already, I run 30/5/0/10/25, which is pretty much the same as Guanglai’s build on GW2 Guru.
I would provide assistance on WvW builds, but I don’t use the Grenade Kit there. I just know gearing up with Rabid insignia stuff is ideal, though I suppose Dire would be better in zergs. Celestial might be useful as well, though my all-stat setup is currently oriented more toward the FT/EG/RB style of play.
Hm… I’ve been looking at Guanglai’s thread. I guess rampager gear with berserker jewels (I assume he means trinkets?) is the way to go?
As for the build: I’ve got my own idea, but I just like to see what other people take.
What runes do you use? I’m thinking of using 2 S. Mad King (last 10% for 100% condition duration), and 2 S. Monk/Water for 2x 15% boon duration (with 20 in alchemy, 50%) for… well, everything, but might stacks generally.
For sigils, I assume Strength and… something. Probably Battle.
As for Sharpnel vs. IP: I’ll probably take IP only on bosses, and if there’s no one else applying burning. It’s not like switching between them takes much effort. (there’s a guardian in my group, but he’s a zerker, so it’s just the passive thing they have… not sure about PuGs I might have to resort to at times)
Bah, at this point, it feels like I’m rambling…
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Current characters: Mistress Viridi (Elementalist), Pigeon Opener (Engineer).
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Don’t take Sigil of Strength and Battle. All sigils that have a cooldown share that cooldown with each other. Both Strength and Battle have cooldowns, so they will only hurt each other. Generally you want to look for 1 sigil with a cooldown (they tend to be more powerful), and 1 that does not.
for pve it’s just preference really. rabid doesn’t do as much damage as rampager but ups your survivability by a lot, and you wouldn’t have to swap armors for wvwvw.
for berserker gear, the thread title says condition grenades. take the zerk elitism elsewhere. god pve minmaxers are so annoying.
as for pvp, go with rabid. 100% of the time. rampager amulet is so terrible.
Don’t take Sigil of Strength and Battle. All sigils that have a cooldown share that cooldown with each other. Both Strength and Battle have cooldowns, so they will only hurt each other. Generally you want to look for 1 sigil with a cooldown (they tend to be more powerful), and 1 that does not.
Oh, right, I forgot that. kitten
Hm… what other sigil would be recommended? I suppose I could go for bursting or accuracy…
Still not sure about gear: they both seem promising… though I might go for rampager because we already have high health and it’s easier to acquire. (CoF, CoE and AC)
I’ve been 80 for a few days, but I still didn’t gear up because of this. :x Hopefully that’ll end today.
“Retired” characters: Fruit Salad (Warrior), Blingerton (Engineer), Shixard (Ranger).
Current characters: Mistress Viridi (Elementalist), Pigeon Opener (Engineer).
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Bursting is an amazing sigil for a condition build. Probably not preferable for a hybrid build since you won’t have as much condition damage to boost, but for pure conditions it’s great.
I’m not sure if you’re questioning the Bursting sigil or what. It is definitely great, netting you near 100 condition damage in a full condition build. It may even give more after additions like Might and Sigil of Corruption. I don’t know if Bursting is the last thing calculated, or if it’s only calculated off your base amount, or what.
I’m not sure if you’re questioning the Bursting sigil or what. It is definitely great, netting you near 100 condition damage in a full condition build. It may even give more after additions like Might and Sigil of Corruption. I don’t know if Bursting is the last thing calculated, or if it’s only calculated off your base amount, or what.
Explain?
I calculated bleeding at 1600 condi dmg as 122.5 per tick. Sigil of Bursting would increase by about 7 dmg. Formula for bleeding is as follows:
(0.05 * Condition Damage) + (0.5 * Level) + 2.5 per stack per second
or
(0.05 * 1600) + (0.5 * 80) +2.5
or
80 + 40 + 2.5
add in sigil of bursting
122.5*1.06
129.85
For might stacking builds, some of us would rather not give up sigil of battle as that’s 105 condi dmg and might duration can be manipulated. Again, I’m not saying it’s bad, I’m just theorycrafting (likely poorly) what would be the most optimal.
Runes of the noble, Enhanced Performance, Sigil of battle is a might generating monster for boosting nade direct and condi dmg.
I’m just rambling at this point, please ignore me as I have no idea what I originally tried to convey.
been playing around with the gear on my engineer for a little while now and personally I’ve found full rampager using might stacking to be pretty effect for pve/dungeons.
I’ve been able with this build to keep a constant stack of 18ish might going by switching between nades/medkit and been getting good number in both condition/direct damage.
I’m still playing around with my sigils but battle is a definite much if you plan to might stack for your kits so i think a permanent bonus of direct damage/ duration/ condition damage to go with it might work?
Sure. I said Sigil of Bursting is great for condition builds. You’re operating under a subsection of condition builds that does not apply to all condition builds.
You said:
For might stacking builds
I don’t disagree, Sigil of Might is better for might stacking builds, but you brought that up not me. You could still have both if you wanted to, assuming you’re not running rifle in a condition build.
for pve it’s just preference really. rabid doesn’t do as much damage as rampager but ups your survivability by a lot, and you wouldn’t have to swap armors for wvwvw.
My problem with using Rabid in PvE is that the added Toughness can sometimes pull additional aggro. Especially if the Guards/Warriors in your group are wearing Berserker gear, it can sometimes cause you to take more damage than you would without it.
That, and the issue of inanimate objects being immune to conditions. Without any Power, your grenades hit like wet noodles.
