Guild Wars 2

Not sure the best way to describe the problem. It isn’t that we CANT remove conditions, elixir builds do it very easily and with their allies in mind, but what about the majority of builds?

If you don’t go for an elixir build and go for kits, gadgets, turrets or some mix of the 3, you are left with very little.

Med kit gives you 1 condition removal, by using antidote, every 15s. Well, that MIGHT be fine but remember, you need to swap into it, which greatly reduces DPS and utility of weapons and is just 1 condition.

Healing turret cleanses conditions, every 60s… its quite a long cooldown that can’t be traited down. Not reliable at all.

So really, all you are left with is elixirs.

I’d suggest increasing the number of condition removal options for the engineer perhaps? Why not make the regenerating mist of the healing turret, also remove bleed/burn and poison?

Why not make antidote remove 3 conditions? Why not make bandages remove one condition as well? Or self bandage remove one?

While it’s not in the tooltip, the skill ‘Super Elixir’ on the Elixir Gun also removes one condition from allies (and yourself) in the impact area. Additionally, if you use the trait “Kit Refinement”, when you switch to the Elixir Gun, it creates a Super Elixir impact zone on your position, which also removes a condition (And it has the same cooldown as Super Elixir, so without CDR traits for Elixir gun, it can only trigger once every 20 seconds).

Another useful tactic is that Light fields, such as Super Elixir, or Elixir R’s thrown form (Which also removes all conditions in the impact area, in addition to helping revive downed allies), remove conditions when combined with Projectile Finishers, or Whirl Finishers.

every other profession has the same issue, if you dont build around condition removal then it will be very limited. it is not supposed to be easy otherwise you would make alot of builds useless. you are also not supposed to spam condition removals but wait till the enemy build up his stack and then remove the big stack at once.

CptCosmic.3156:

every other profession has the same issue, if you dont build around condition removal then it will be very limited. it is not supposed to be easy otherwise you would make alot of builds useless. you are also not supposed to spam condition removals but wait till the enemy build up his stack and then remove the big stack at once.

that´s not true! Other classes have choice between condition removal by traits and utilitys/signets..so they don´t have to focus on condition removal by means of the build if they want decent condition remove

Candiru.5279:

CptCosmic.3156:

every other profession has the same issue, if you dont build around condition removal then it will be very limited. it is not supposed to be easy otherwise you would make alot of builds useless. you are also not supposed to spam condition removals but wait till the enemy build up his stack and then remove the big stack at once.

that´s not true! Other classes have choice between condition removal by traits and utilitys/signets..so they don´t have to focus on condition removal by means of the build if they want decent condition remove

healing turret, med kit, elixir gun, elixir C, toss elixir C, toss elixir R, rocket boots heal cripple+immobilization. yeah engineers have low amount of condition removal … oh wait!

CptCosmic.3156:

every other profession has the same issue, if you dont build around condition removal then it will be very limited. it is not supposed to be easy otherwise you would make alot of builds useless. you are also not supposed to spam condition removals but wait till the enemy build up his stack and then remove the big stack at once.

I disagree, they have more options in general.

A mesmer can take in any build, null field. Its a combo field on a short cooldown that helps your allies as well.

A thief can take shadowstep and or hide in shadows to help with his.

Guardian has traits, conscerations, meditations, his healing signet and his constant light fields.

Necromancer has his ever powerful ‘consume conditions’, that can slot into any build, and his plague signet and traits in general.

Rangers don’t have much, but their healing spring and their elite offer condition removal, and traits can too.

Warriors don’t have much either, but mending and signet of stamina are only 2 skills that work well.

Elementalists entire water attunement can be specced to remove plenty of conditions, and some utilities as well.

So, as you can see, its all about options for the other professions, they have options that don’t define the build and the playstyle.

For the engineer, in order to have it reliable, you need to trait and slot elixirs, anything else is not good enough.

Don’t have anything against elixirs, I just don’t like them being the only option for condition removal.

CptCosmic.3156:

Candiru.5279:

CptCosmic.3156:

every other profession has the same issue, if you dont build around condition removal then it will be very limited. it is not supposed to be easy otherwise you would make alot of builds useless. you are also not supposed to spam condition removals but wait till the enemy build up his stack and then remove the big stack at once.

that´s not true! Other classes have choice between condition removal by traits and utilitys/signets..so they don´t have to focus on condition removal by means of the build if they want decent condition remove

healing turret, med kit, elixir gun, elixir C, toss elixir C, toss elixir R, rocket boots heal cripple+immobilization. yeah engineers have low amount of condition removal … oh wait!

Healing turret is on a 60s cooldown and you don’t control when it spins.
Med kit is 1 single condition on a 15s cooldown, and you don’t use weapon abilities.

And listing elixirs isn’t exactly proving anyone wrong, its proving that you are pigeon holed into elixirs if you want condition removal.

You have to both trait for, and slot elixirs.

And removing things with the likes of rocket boots isn’t really proper condition removal, its just removing weak CC. Rocket boots won’t remove the bleed and poison and burn that is killing you.

Lyuben.2613:

stuff

again just for you: healing turret, med kit, elixir gun, elixir C, toss elixir C, toss elixir R, rocket boots heal cripple+immobilization. yeah the options to remove conditions are truly limited haha

Lyuben.2613:

CptCosmic.3156:

Candiru.5279:

CptCosmic.3156:

every other profession has the same issue, if you dont build around condition removal then it will be very limited. it is not supposed to be easy otherwise you would make alot of builds useless. you are also not supposed to spam condition removals but wait till the enemy build up his stack and then remove the big stack at once.

that´s not true! Other classes have choice between condition removal by traits and utilitys/signets..so they don´t have to focus on condition removal by means of the build if they want decent condition remove

healing turret, med kit, elixir gun, elixir C, toss elixir C, toss elixir R, rocket boots heal cripple+immobilization. yeah engineers have low amount of condition removal … oh wait!

Healing turret is on a 60s cooldown and you don’t control when it spins.
Med kit is 1 single condition on a 15s cooldown, and you don’t use weapon abilities.

And listing elixirs isn’t exactly proving anyone wrong, its proving that you are pigeon holed into elixirs if you want condition removal.

You have to both trait for, and slot elixirs.

wrong, all those options do not require to spend a single trait point and you forget that the condition removals of other professions have high cooldowns as well and will be used once per fight most of the time.

CptCosmic.3156:

Lyuben.2613:

CptCosmic.3156:

every other profession has the same issue, if you dont build around condition removal then it will be very limited. it is not supposed to be easy otherwise you would make alot of builds useless. you are also not supposed to spam condition removals but wait till the enemy build up his stack and then remove the big stack at once.

I disagree, they have more options in general.

A mesmer can take in any build, null field. Its a combo field on a short cooldown that helps your allies as well.

A thief can take shadowstep and or hide in shadows to help with his.

Guardian has traits, conscerations, meditations, his healing signet and his constant light fields.

Necromancer has his ever powerful ‘consume conditions’, that can slot into any build, and his plague signet and traits in general.

Rangers don’t have much, but their healing spring and their elite offer condition removal, and traits can too.

Warriors don’t have much either, but mending and signet of stamina are only 2 skills that work well.

Elementalists entire water attunement can be specced to remove plenty of conditions, and some utilities as well.

So, as you can see, its all about options for the other professions, they have options that don’t define the build and the playstyle.

For the engineer, in order to have it reliable, you need to trait and slot elixirs, anything else is not good enough.

Don’t have anything against elixirs, I just don’t like them being the only option for condition removal.

again just for you: healing turret, med kit, elixir gun, elixir C, toss elixir C, toss elixir R, rocket boots heal cripple+immobilization. yeah the options to remove conditions are truly limited haha

I don’t want to get infractions here, but do you know the point of this thread? Do you know how to read upwards and the OP?

Do you know what pigeonholed means? I suggest you look it up, and apply it to the context of the thread and the engineer.

As I’ve said, healing turret and med kit do not offer any reliable or strong condition removal. The only thing that does, is elixirs, and that is provided you trait for them. That is pigeonholing you into one build.

No one is saying that we don’t have condition removal, that is a silly strawman you have erected. People are saying its too pigeonholed.

wrong, I showed all options that do not require to spend a single trait point and you forget that the condition removals of other professions have high cooldowns as well and will be used once per fight most of the time.

Only a few of them are long cooldown, but the ones you listed are exactly what I am telling you: Pigeon holed. No one is arguing that engineers don’t have reliable condition removal, stop suggesting that this is the point of the thread, the point is, that it is available only in a single build.

Med kit and healing turret are not good enough.

Lyuben.2613:

I don’t want to get infractions here, but do you know the point of this thread? Do you know how to read upwards and the OP?

Do you know what pigeonholed means? I suggest you look it up, and apply it to the context of the thread and the engineer.

As I’ve said, healing turret and med kit do not offer any reliable or strong condition removal. The only thing that does, is elixirs, and that is provided you trait for them. That is pigeonholing you into one build.

No one is saying that we don’t have condition removal, that is a silly strawman you have erected. People are saying its too pigeonholed.

obviously you have no clue what you are talking about and you repeat the same nonsense again. none of the above options require you to spend a single trait point. engineers are as limited as other professions by cooldowns and builds, deal with it. you are obviously butthurt and dont know when to use the condition removal. builds with clearing formula are to be played different to builds without. you dont spam your condition removals when you have limited removal, you wait till the stack is high and then remove it => voila you turned 2k dps into 500 dps. engineer has issues but removing conditions is not one of them.

CptCosmic.3156:

Lyuben.2613:

I don’t want to get infractions here, but do you know the point of this thread? Do you know how to read upwards and the OP?

Do you know what pigeonholed means? I suggest you look it up, and apply it to the context of the thread and the engineer.

As I’ve said, healing turret and med kit do not offer any reliable or strong condition removal. The only thing that does, is elixirs, and that is provided you trait for them. That is pigeonholing you into one build.

No one is saying that we don’t have condition removal, that is a silly strawman you have erected. People are saying its too pigeonholed.

obviously you have no clue what you are talking about and you repeat the same nonsense again. none of the above options require you to spend a single trait point. engineers are as limited as other professions by cooldowns and builds, deal with it.

Oh but they are. Elixirs require traits to function properly, untraited elixirs without fast acting elixirs are not good enough to slot when compared to the other options, and they pretty much require, cleaning formula as well.

So all you are left with for reliable, and viable condition removal is: Elixir builds, with traited elixirs.

Saying “med kit”, does not mean its viable, or reliable. It isn’t.
Neither is the healing turret.

All that is left, is elixirs.

If all that is left is elixirs, then it is pigeonholed, which is the problem.

I like elixirs, I don’t like being forced to take an elixir build to have condition removal.

Elixir R is not condition removal, it is stun removal on self only. Not really the point of that build.

I carry an elixir gun in my specs to deal with conditions because of fumigate and light fields, i use grenades otherwise. Only thing worth speccing into for elixir gun is reduced CD, and thats in firearms which comes with crit chance and condition damage which is yummy for my glass cannon.

Graywolf.6513:

Elixir R is not condition removal, it is stun removal on self only. Not really the point of that build.

I carry an elixir gun in my specs to deal with conditions because of fumigate and light fields, i use grenades otherwise. Only thing worth speccing into for elixir gun is reduced CD, and thats in firearms which comes with crit chance and condition damage which is yummy for my glass cannon.

I actually like the elixir gun, and see some application in its light field, but fumigate doesn’t help yourself. But the problem is, I use a rifle and to use elixir gun is pretty silly.

Elixir gun works with the pistol specs, not with rifle.

Lyuben.2613:

Graywolf.6513:

Elixir R is not condition removal, it is stun removal on self only. Not really the point of that build.

I carry an elixir gun in my specs to deal with conditions because of fumigate and light fields, i use grenades otherwise. Only thing worth speccing into for elixir gun is reduced CD, and thats in firearms which comes with crit chance and condition damage which is yummy for my glass cannon.

I actually like the elixir gun, and see some application in its light field, but fumigate doesn’t help yourself. But the problem is, I use a rifle and to use elixir gun is pretty silly.

Elixir gun works with the pistol specs, not with rifle.

too hard to wait till the stack is high and then remove everything at once with a single button press with elixir C? well I have bad news for you: this game is not for you.

CptCosmic.3156:

Lyuben.2613:

I am noob and dont know how to use condition removal properly

so you are butthurt over 12 second cooldown reduction and cause you cant spam condition removal? one hint: you use it when the stack is high.

but I guess you will not get it.

What are you even talking about? Stack is high? Stack of what? What am I supposed to remove it with? With elixirs, then that is a problem.

With med kit? Don’t make me laugh.
With healing turret? Even funnier.

Tell me, what do you expect me to remove conditions with, yes, its very obvious to remove them to remove them at their highest, no need to act so condescending, but that isn’t the problem.

If you read the point of the thread, you’ll see that the problem is that elixirs are the only options. Which means elixir builds are the only options. Which is pigeonholing you into a single build, which isn’t fun and I don’t like it.

CptCosmic.3156:

Lyuben.2613:

Graywolf.6513:

Elixir R is not condition removal, it is stun removal on self only. Not really the point of that build.

I carry an elixir gun in my specs to deal with conditions because of fumigate and light fields, i use grenades otherwise. Only thing worth speccing into for elixir gun is reduced CD, and thats in firearms which comes with crit chance and condition damage which is yummy for my glass cannon.

I actually like the elixir gun, and see some application in its light field, but fumigate doesn’t help yourself. But the problem is, I use a rifle and to use elixir gun is pretty silly.

Elixir gun works with the pistol specs, not with rifle.

too hard to wait till the stack is high and then remove everything at once with a single button press with elixir C? well I have bad news for you: this game is not for you.

Man you are wearing my report button out.

Let me say it again, elixir C is an elixir, and as an elixir, it requires an elixir build to ever be worth slotting. Forcing condition removal only into elixir builds is pigeonholing.

Lyuben.2613:

CptCosmic.3156:

Lyuben.2613:

I am noob and dont know how to use condition removal properly

so you are butthurt over 12 second cooldown reduction and cause you cant spam condition removal? one hint: you use it when the stack is high.

but I guess you will not get it.

What are you even talking about? Stack is high? Stack of what? What am I supposed to remove it with? With elixirs, then that is a problem.

With med kit? Don’t make me laugh.
With healing turret? Even funnier.

Tell me, what do you expect me to remove conditions with, yes, its very obvious to remove them to remove them at their highest, no need to act so condescending, but that isn’t the problem.

If you read the point of the thread, you’ll see that the problem is that elixirs are the only options. Which means elixir builds are the only options. Which is pigeonholing you into a single build, which isn’t fun and I don’t like it.

oh noes to remove conditions you have to slot condition removal! just like every other profession?! THE SKY IS FALLING!

and to use healing turret in combination with elixir C does not require you to spend a single point into alchemy… your point is null and void.

Lyuben.2613:

CptCosmic.3156:

Lyuben.2613:

Graywolf.6513:

Elixir R is not condition removal, it is stun removal on self only. Not really the point of that build.

I carry an elixir gun in my specs to deal with conditions because of fumigate and light fields, i use grenades otherwise. Only thing worth speccing into for elixir gun is reduced CD, and thats in firearms which comes with crit chance and condition damage which is yummy for my glass cannon.

I actually like the elixir gun, and see some application in its light field, but fumigate doesn’t help yourself. But the problem is, I use a rifle and to use elixir gun is pretty silly.

Elixir gun works with the pistol specs, not with rifle.

too hard to wait till the stack is high and then remove everything at once with a single button press with elixir C? well I have bad news for you: this game is not for you.

Man you are wearing my report button out.

Let me say it again, elixir C is an elixir, and as an elixir, it requires an elixir build to ever be worth slotting. Forcing condition removal only into elixir builds is pigeonholing.

report me for what? your trolling or you lack of insight? please enlighten me why using healing turret and elixir C is suddenly an “elixir” build and requires me to spend points into alchemy.

What do you want then? What ability would make you not feel pigeon-holed? An AOE condition removal on low cooldown in each kit and weapon set? Do you not see how that would trivialize conditions for the class?

CptCosmic.3156:

Lyuben.2613:

CptCosmic.3156:

Lyuben.2613:

I am noob and dont know how to use condition removal properly

so you are butthurt over 12 second cooldown reduction and cause you cant spam condition removal? one hint: you use it when the stack is high.

but I guess you will not get it.

What are you even talking about? Stack is high? Stack of what? What am I supposed to remove it with? With elixirs, then that is a problem.

With med kit? Don’t make me laugh.
With healing turret? Even funnier.

Tell me, what do you expect me to remove conditions with, yes, its very obvious to remove them to remove them at their highest, no need to act so condescending, but that isn’t the problem.

If you read the point of the thread, you’ll see that the problem is that elixirs are the only options. Which means elixir builds are the only options. Which is pigeonholing you into a single build, which isn’t fun and I don’t like it.

oh noes to remove conditions you have to slot condition removal! just like every other profession?! THE SKY IS FALLING!

and to use healing turret in combination with elixir C does not require you to spend a single point into alchemy… your point is null and void, just l2p please

Lyuben.2613:

CptCosmic.3156:

Lyuben.2613:

Graywolf.6513:

Elixir R is not condition removal, it is stun removal on self only. Not really the point of that build.

I carry an elixir gun in my specs to deal with conditions because of fumigate and light fields, i use grenades otherwise. Only thing worth speccing into for elixir gun is reduced CD, and thats in firearms which comes with crit chance and condition damage which is yummy for my glass cannon.

I actually like the elixir gun, and see some application in its light field, but fumigate doesn’t help yourself. But the problem is, I use a rifle and to use elixir gun is pretty silly.

Elixir gun works with the pistol specs, not with rifle.

too hard to wait till the stack is high and then remove everything at once with a single button press with elixir C? well I have bad news for you: this game is not for you.

Man you are wearing my report button out.

Let me say it again, elixir C is an elixir, and as an elixir, it requires an elixir build to ever be worth slotting. Forcing condition removal only into elixir builds is pigeonholing.

report me for what? your trolling?

Reporting you for your language and baiting, its very obvious.

And to say that healing turret is good condition removal is laughable. Have you used it? You have no control of when it triggers, the way overcharging works, is it only activates the first time the turret activates AFTER you press it. So you don’t have control of when it happens, or access to information as to if its off cooldown, so all you are left with is guesswork and luck. You cannot time it, and that makes it weak. Plus, its a 60s cooldown in a limited area, its not strong at all.

And Elixir C, without traits, is not strong enough honestly. Its toolbelt skill is both bugged out, and weak, and the elixir on its own is not good enough to be reliable.

jungfreud.5167:

What do you want then? What ability would make you not feel pigeon-holed? An AOE condition removal on low cooldown in each kit and weapon set? Do you not see how that would trivialize conditions for the class?

How about giving more options?

Make antidote remove 3 conditions so its worth using.

Make the regenerating mist of the healing turret remove some conditions as well.

There are many options where you can add options that are not elixirs.

Lyuben.2613:

Reporting you for your language and baiting, its very obvious.

And to say that healing turret is good condition removal is laughable. Have you used it? You have no control of when it triggers, the way overcharging works, is it only activates the first time the turret activates AFTER you press it. So you don’t have control of when it happens, or access to information as to if its off cooldown, so all you are left with is guesswork and luck. You cannot time it, and that makes it weak. Plus, its a 60s cooldown in a limited area, its not strong at all.

And Elixir C, without traits, is not strong enough honestly. Its toolbelt skill is both bugged out, and weak, and the elixir on its own is not good enough to be reliable.

1. I have not used a single bad word.
2. pointing out the truth is not baiting
3. elixir C weak? removing all conditions with a single button press is weak? what do you want then? 5sec cooldown remove all conditions?

there is only 1 issue with condition removal and it is your lack of player skill, thats all. play thief then you will see what lack of condition removal means.

CptCosmic.3156:

Lyuben.2613:

Reporting you for your language and baiting, its very obvious.

And to say that healing turret is good condition removal is laughable. Have you used it? You have no control of when it triggers, the way overcharging works, is it only activates the first time the turret activates AFTER you press it. So you don’t have control of when it happens, or access to information as to if its off cooldown, so all you are left with is guesswork and luck. You cannot time it, and that makes it weak. Plus, its a 60s cooldown in a limited area, its not strong at all.

And Elixir C, without traits, is not strong enough honestly. Its toolbelt skill is both bugged out, and weak, and the elixir on its own is not good enough to be reliable.

1. I have not used a single bad word.
2. pointing out the truth is not baiting
3. elixir C weak? removing all conditions with a single button press is weak? what do you want then? 5sec cooldown remove all conditions?

there is only 1 issue with condition removal and it is your lack of player skill, thats all. play thief then you will see what lack of condition removal means.

Elixir C is weak. It has a 1s cast time, and a long cooldown. The random boons you get are extremely negligible, and its toolbelt skill is very weak and bugged out.

It alone does not give you condition removal that is reliable. It gives you one burst, on a long cooldown with a buggy and weak toolbelt.

Lyuben.2613:

CptCosmic.3156:

Lyuben.2613:

Reporting you for your language and baiting, its very obvious.

And to say that healing turret is good condition removal is laughable. Have you used it? You have no control of when it triggers, the way overcharging works, is it only activates the first time the turret activates AFTER you press it. So you don’t have control of when it happens, or access to information as to if its off cooldown, so all you are left with is guesswork and luck. You cannot time it, and that makes it weak. Plus, its a 60s cooldown in a limited area, its not strong at all.

And Elixir C, without traits, is not strong enough honestly. Its toolbelt skill is both bugged out, and weak, and the elixir on its own is not good enough to be reliable.

1. I have not used a single bad word.
2. pointing out the truth is not baiting
3. elixir C weak? removing all conditions with a single button press is weak? what do you want then? 5sec cooldown remove all conditions?

there is only 1 issue with condition removal and it is your lack of player skill, thats all. play thief then you will see what lack of condition removal means.

Elixir C is weak. It has a 1s cast time, and a long cooldown. The random boons you get are extremely negligible, and its toolbelt skill is very weak and bugged out.

It alone does not give you condition removal that is reliable. It gives you one burst, on a long cooldown with a buggy and weak toolbelt.

all condition removals are limited by high cooldowns and elixir C is one of the strongest condition removals that exists. whats your point? 1s cast time to cripple the damage of one of the most popular builds is bad? you moan about one of the best on demand condition removal…

CptCosmic.3156:

there is only 1 issue with condition removal and it is your lack of player skill, thats all. play thief then you will see what lack of condition removal means.

Not sure if serious. Hide in Shadows, the skill you start with, that’s a healing skill slot, removes bleeding, poison and burning AND it puts you in stealth AND heals you… on a 30 second cooldown.

I’d take that over a turret that has a mystery ticker and an elixir with a 40 second cooldown that takes a skill slot.

Brick Mantooth.9520:

CptCosmic.3156:

there is only 1 issue with condition removal and it is your lack of player skill, thats all. play thief then you will see what lack of condition removal means.

Not sure if serious. Hide in Shadows, the skill you start with, that’s a healing skill slot, removes bleeding, poison and burning AND it puts you in stealth AND heals you… on a 30 second cooldown.

I’d take that over a turret that has a mystery ticker and an elixir with a 40 second cooldown that takes a skill slot.

apples and oranges. it removes all those things but oh wait you are crippled/chilled/immobilized, have 10 or more stacks of vulnerability and other nasty stuff on you like confusion. what does your hide in shadow help you here? players are not npcs that stop attacking when you are in stealth, a player will still hit you by AOE or shooting in your direction. beside that, it is situational at most or would you waste your healing skill cooldown while you are almost full health just because I stacked some conditions on you at the beginning of the fight? I guess not.

the most effective form of condition removals are either burst all at once or steady one by one. engineer has both. also I dont have any issues with the healing turret condition removal even it is not instant.

CptCosmic.3156:

Brick Mantooth.9520:

CptCosmic.3156:

there is only 1 issue with condition removal and it is your lack of player skill, thats all. play thief then you will see what lack of condition removal means.

Not sure if serious. Hide in Shadows, the skill you start with, that’s a healing skill slot, removes bleeding, poison and burning AND it puts you in stealth AND heals you… on a 30 second cooldown.

I’d take that over a turret that has a mystery ticker and an elixir with a 40 second cooldown that takes a skill slot.

apples and oranges. it removes all those things but oh wait you are crippled/chilled/immobilized, have 10 or more stacks of vulnerability and other nasty stuff on you like confusion. what does your hide in shadow help you here? players are not npcs that stop attacking when you are in stealth, a player will still hit you by AOE or shooting in your direction. beside that, it is situational at most or would you waste your healing skill cooldown while you are almost full health just because I stacked some conditions on you at the beginning of the fight? I guess not.

the most effective form of condition removals are either burst all at once or steady one by one. engineer has both. also I dont have any issues with the healing turret condition removal even it is not instant.

When we’re talking about not having a viable option other than using elixirs and unreliable cooldown turrets, you say we’re full of it and compare it to a thief. When we say the thief which you stated was unequivocally worse than the engi, has a better skill for the same thing we are discussing it’s “apples to oranges”. Got it.

Brick Mantooth.9520:

CptCosmic.3156:

Brick Mantooth.9520:

CptCosmic.3156:

there is only 1 issue with condition removal and it is your lack of player skill, thats all. play thief then you will see what lack of condition removal means.

Not sure if serious. Hide in Shadows, the skill you start with, that’s a healing skill slot, removes bleeding, poison and burning AND it puts you in stealth AND heals you… on a 30 second cooldown.

I’d take that over a turret that has a mystery ticker and an elixir with a 40 second cooldown that takes a skill slot.

apples and oranges. it removes all those things but oh wait you are crippled/chilled/immobilized, have 10 or more stacks of vulnerability and other nasty stuff on you like confusion. what does your hide in shadow help you here? players are not npcs that stop attacking when you are in stealth, a player will still hit you by AOE or shooting in your direction. beside that, it is situational at most or would you waste your healing skill cooldown while you are almost full health just because I stacked some conditions on you at the beginning of the fight? I guess not.

the most effective form of condition removals are either burst all at once or steady one by one. engineer has both. also I dont have any issues with the healing turret condition removal even it is not instant.

When we’re talking about not having a viable option other than using elixirs and unreliable cooldown turrets, you say we’re full of it and compare it to a thief. When we say the thief which you stated was unequivocally worse than the engi, has a better skill for the same thing we are discussing it’s “apples to oranges”. Got it.

that was not the topic, have you read anything here? the OP claimed you have go deeply into alchemy otherwise the condition removal is useless which is wrong.

also the thief skill is not the same, it removes only 3 types of conditions on just a shorter cooldown. you cant use it at the start of the fight when you have alot of bleed stacks and your health is still almost full or you waste the heal and you cant reserve it when you desperately need a heal. it is far worse and more situational for a bit lower cooldown which does not matter as you will use it anyway only once per fight.

there’s not that many traits people would want to use in the alchemy tree

transmute is a passive that converts conditions to boons at albeit a low, unreliable chance, but it’s still a chance

and Cleansing formula 409 makes it so every tossed elixir cures a condition, and you can also make those do damage

Old juggernaut had stability, so any knock down/movement affecting condition didn’t work

Alchemy has automated response when you fall below 25 percent HP, which pretty much makes you immune to conditions

and then there’s cloaking device.

So… Pretty much every trait line has something to combat conditions, So you don’t have to “spec” too hard if you care that much.

And super elixir on elixir gun removes every condition when I use it. I think it benefits from cleansing formula 409

The thing he’s saying is the only RELIABLE condition removal is elixirs. IMO I partially agree and partially disagree. See healing turret only removes one when it decides to remove anything. and I have to swap into a med kit to get anything out of it, no one else has to stop dps entirely for so long just to get rid of 1 condition. Also, the Elixir Gun is nice, but what’s the CD on it? Once again I’m slotting a kit I have to switch to which can be unreliable simply because it’s a kit and kits are both a little weak and a little buggy. Now down to reliable Condition removal which is Elixirs. The OP feels that they aren’t worth slotting unless they a re specced, that’s his opinion and he has backed it up by saying the most reliable condition removal elixir has a buggy and weak toolbelt which shouldn’t be a tradeoff for reliable condition removal. These are the points made.
Once again, I agree somewhat. I feel that increased reliablility of Kits as a whole would help me want to slot Elixir Gun over whatever else I’m using. Increased reliability of the Healing turret removal AND it’s Combo field: Water would help drastically and probably fix the issue entirely. Fixing the Bugged elixirs and making the random elixirs and tosses a little more reliable (say one guaranteed thing and then random effect of two options would be nice and not overpower them) would make slotting Elixir C completely viable without traiting and without taking a hit on the toolbelt to do it. This is my opinion. I believe that overall, every current problem with the Engi can be fixed by squashing bugs and by increasing the reliability of the class as a whole.

You can also just roll a human, they have a racial that removes three conditions on command. Elixir gun is also a really simple choice (fumigate plus super elixir light field pretty much trivializes conditions), and has a ton of other utility to boot. It may not do great damage unless you gear for condition damage, but it can do all the condition removal from the baseline without a single trait point.

Also, do not agree with people who are knocking kits because “they have to switch to them and lose damage”. Bugs aside, hotswapping kits is just like weapon juggling on other characters, if you can’t do it effectively you will never take your engineer to the next level.

This can’t be a legitimate issue… Personally, I use the Elixir Gun a lot, and I never have a problem with conditions. ONE slot (not to mention it expands into 4 additional skill) that takes care of all my condition-related worries. So that’s ZERO traits used and ZERO runes/sigil slots used. If, say, the Elixir Gun didn’t solve all your condition problems (like it does for me), you have a wealth of other ways to remove conditions. Maybe you don’t want to use the Elixir Gun? Guess what! You just freed up a skill slot. The possibilities for all the different ways you can cure conditions is huge. I just don’t understand.

I think the OP said it best in his very first sentence of the thread:

Lyuben.2613:

Not sure the best way to describe the problem.

MAYBE BECAUSE THERE ISN’T ONE.

Lyuben.2613:

CptCosmic.3156:

every other profession has the same issue, if you dont build around condition removal then it will be very limited. it is not supposed to be easy otherwise you would make alot of builds useless. you are also not supposed to spam condition removals but wait till the enemy build up his stack and then remove the big stack at once.

I disagree, they have more options in general.

A mesmer can take in any build, null field. Its a combo field on a short cooldown that helps your allies as well.

A thief can take shadowstep and or hide in shadows to help with his.

Guardian has traits, conscerations, meditations, his healing signet and his constant light fields.

Necromancer has his ever powerful ‘consume conditions’, that can slot into any build, and his plague signet and traits in general.

Rangers don’t have much, but their healing spring and their elite offer condition removal, and traits can too.

Warriors don’t have much either, but mending and signet of stamina are only 2 skills that work well.

Elementalists entire water attunement can be specced to remove plenty of conditions, and some utilities as well.

So, as you can see, its all about options for the other professions, they have options that don’t define the build and the playstyle.

For the engineer, in order to have it reliable, you need to trait and slot elixirs, anything else is not good enough.

Don’t have anything against elixirs, I just don’t like them being the only option for condition removal.

You just described how every other class has either less/worse options than us, or is just as “pigeonholed” as we are :p.

Tigger.8035:

there’s not that many traits people would want to use in the alchemy tree

transmute is a passive that converts conditions to boons at albeit a low, unreliable chance, but it’s still a chance

and Cleansing formula 409 makes it so every tossed elixir cures a condition, and you can also make those do damage

Old juggernaut had stability, so any knock down/movement affecting condition didn’t work

Alchemy has automated response when you fall below 25 percent HP, which pretty much makes you immune to conditions

and then there’s cloaking device.

So… Pretty much every trait line has something to combat conditions, So you don’t have to “spec” too hard if you care that much.

And super elixir on elixir gun removes every condition when I use it. I think it benefits from cleansing formula 409

• Old Juggernaut is not condition removal. Also, as you said, it’s ‘old’ and no longer applicable anyway.
• Cloaking Device is not condition removal.
• Automated Response, while amazing, is not technically condition removal. Any conditions applied before you hit 25% health stick. It also requires deep Alchemy (which is the problem the OP is bringing up).
• Transmute, again in the Alchemy tree, is not reliable condition removal. This whole thread is about reliable condition removal.
• Cleansing Formula 409 is awesome and reliable condition removal that requires Elixirs and the Alchemy tree.

I’ll have to check out Elixir Gun. I learned today that Super Elixir removes one condition on hit even though the tooltip doesn’t say it does. And with the trait Kit Refinement (not Alchemy tree) apparently equipping the Elixir Gun removes a condition once every 5s. Again, I’ll have to test that out as it doesn’t say it does this anywhere and that also seems pretty strong. It definitely is NOT affected by the trait Cleansing Formula 409, however.

The whole point of this thread is that Engineers don’t have a lot of reliable condition removal outside of Elixirs and Alchemy.

• Healing Turret removes 2 conditions every 6 seconds. This can sometimes take up to 8 seconds before it actually removes the conditions. That is not reliable.
• Med Kit can remove 1 condition every 15 seconds. However, you cannot use this while immobilized. That is not reliable.

I don’t think people want a lot more condition removal than we have right now. We just want reliable condition removal (and some bug fixes).

EDIT:
Confirmed that Elixir Gun’s Super Elixir does actually remove a condition when it hits. It looks like it only removes 1 condition and only when it first hits. Swapping into Elixir Gun with the Kit Refinement trait has the same effect.

Every good sPvP/tPvP player knows that condition removal is the Engineer weakness.
Which makes it the favourite prey of Necros (Raaaaaah, necrooooooos!!!!!!!!), just face a good one once to realize it.
I suspect some posters defending the contrary to be Necros themselves who don’t want to lose their free Engi kill :p

Yes, our condition removal options are thin, and a lot of them are weak, removing one condition at a time in an active way (meaning you have to use a slooooooow skill cast to activate most of them, like Elixirs), or just plain bugged (yes, healing turret works every other time.
Or like some of you suggested invest a whole utility slot just for that, when you know how a single utility slot is important for an Engi.
I’ve tried that:

- Elixir gun is weak, sorry to say that.
No decent spec will incorporate it in an efficient way. Very very low damage, poor condition application, Fumigate condition removal is bugged, the only thing useful could be the super elixir.
But since the projectile combo activation nerf, you’re lucky if you can get 2 condition removals out of its full length.
Too much of a cost for such poor results. This particular kit needs complete tweaking.

- Same goes for Elixir C. One Single utility slot for the sole purpose of condition removal.
We already don’t have weapon swap, if you want a stun breaker, it pigeonholes you into a single kit spec (Med kit doesn’t count, nooooo :p). We don’t want that.
Plus the tool belt skill is weak, it works only for one condition.

We used to have Alchemy 15 points “transmute”: Nerfed to the half (used to be 6% chance ><, in a word it used to work!), like everything a little good about Engi.

Yes, when you play other classes you realize how easy condition removal is for some. Thieves main heal, warriors main heal, Mesmers have 2 or 3 very efficient utility skills, Guardian can have 2 easy-to-get passives every 10sec and a few actives, Rangers are a little weak too, but they have a nice signet passive/active/stun break all-in-once, and I won’t even dare talking about Necros.

But I always believed that Anet gave each class a weakness in their balancing process (like the poor mobility of Necros, the low vitality of thieves, Mesmers I’m still looking for it :p), and condition removal is the Engi one.

I may be wrong though.

How is fumigate bugged? It seems to work pretty dandy with me.

I think some traits that buff elixir gun are in order anyway, its a primarily bleed based weapon in terms of damage, so +15% damage(which does not effect conditions) is quite silly.

I actually thing, through comboing fumigate and super elixir we are A-OK for condition removal (dunno how projectile condition removal works quite yet though, is it targets near the combo bullet, or the person who fired the combo bullet?). I personally feel we are too pigeon-holed into being condition removal because our buffing is down right awful and our niche in damage seems to be ‘the max range guy who can take out those mortar turrets from a distance’ which i admit, as a grenade spec guy, makes me feel pretty fancy when i finally get my time to shine.

Last time i tried, fumigate didn’t remove any conditions at all. I remember fighting a necro back then, it was ridiculous. Just tried it again on the class dummies, still no effect whatsoever on hit.

Combo projectile finishers, in the case of the Elixir gun, Tranquilizer Dart, will grant you a 20% chance to remove a condition from yourself as long as your projectile goes through the combo field created by Super Elixir.

Be careful though, the little “combo/heart” indicator doesn’t mean you are actually removing conditions, it only indicates you have fulfilled the combo requirements.
In beta, projectiles had a 100% combo chance. They just forgot to remove the “combo/heart” proc for every projectile instead of only showing it when the effect actually occurs.

I tell you once again, you’re lucky if you get 2 actual condition removals out of it.

If it’s not an on demand full condition removal it’s useless in most situations. Your only real option for conditionremoval is either elixir C or spec’ing alchemy with condition removal on elixir use and doing a full elixir spec with elixir H, B, and possibly C.

I have tried this many other ways, but not having condition removal on our weapons / healing abilities means we are forced to lose a utility slot.

When you then take into account that we have to lose a utility slot for a CC break, and for a kit to replace the weapon swap we don’t get.

You get a compounded issue which is at the core of must engineer issues.

I really want to run x build. It’s awesome but since I can’t have both elixir C and elixir S or spec into alchemy it just doesn’t work. I get burst down in 2-3s and my group can do nothing.

Unless it was changed recently, firing a projectile through a combo field removes conditions from allies that the projectile passes through and not the person who fired it.

I’d say this is one of the more critical issues they should look into for the Engineer. Unless we waste a lot of our build on condition removal we get eaten alive by the condition damage.

It would be so simple to add a trait in Alchemy or Tools, like “remove a condition on kit swapping” with an icd of 10sec, or specific condition removing on dodge, like Elem and Thief have, or even remove a condition upon healing…

Prelude.3817:

It would be so simple to add a trait in Alchemy or Tools, like “remove a condition on kit swapping” with an icd of 10sec, or specific condition removing on dodge, like Elem and Thief have, or even remove a condition upon healing…

I like that.

Maybe change how ‘always prepared’ works, since Its not really popular?

I can see it becoming:
“Remove a condition on kit swapping. 10s cooldown”
Or
“Remove a condition on kit swapping.10s cooldown. Drop several bandages when downed”

I don’t think anyone sees the logic between dropping an elixir gun or flamethrower when downed, your allies won’t have traits, or experience with it, and it makes them lose stats, effects on sigils and they likely will have no experience with it.

Forget the bandages, your allies will take them and leave you dead :p

engineer get rapped from condition dmg if you not skilled completely in elxirs…
since many classes go for condition dmg like ranger, thief, necro and mesmer this can be we very frustrating to play as a kit or gadget engineer

Candiru.5279:

engineer get rapped from condition dmg if you not skilled completely in elxirs…
since many classes go for condition dmg like ranger, thief, necro and mesmer this can be we very frustrating to play as a kit or gadget engineer

That’s the point essentially.

I like elixir builds, but I sometimes want to deviate from them.

God help us when turret builds become viable… God help us all.

IF we didn’t have to use utility slot(s) for weapon kits and had a weapon swap i’d honestly say our condi removal very fine.
I’d actully be happy if antidote removed 2-3 condi instead, since you still have to actully run over it, can’t use it when rooted and a buttload of condis on you..

A. Healing turret removes condition

B. Med kit had “drop antidote”

C. Elixir gun “fumigate removes conditions”

D. Throw Elixir R

E. Light field from elixir gun skill 5

F. Light field from elixir gin kit refinement.

G. Elixir C

H. Throw elixir C

I. Cleansing formula 409

J. Transmute

Yup, clearly as the original post states, We cannot remove conditions.

coglin.1496:

A. Healing turret removes condition

B. Med kit had “drop antidote”

C. Elixir gun “fumigate removes conditions”

D. Throw Elixir R

E. Light field from elixir gun skill 5

F. Light field from elixir gin kit refinement.

G. Elixir C

H. Throw elixir C

I. Cleansing formula 409

J. Transmute

Yup, clearly as the original post states, We cannot remove conditions.

Clearly as your post indicates, you cannot comprehend and read the point.

I know that med kit removes 1 condition as long as you are not immobilized and not attacking.

I know that the healing turret removes conditions, but without your control of when due to how overcharges work.

And the rest? Proves my point even further. I’m not saying engineers have none, if you had bothered to read the thread, I’m saying its pigeonholed, and listing a bunch of elixirs and a bunch of lies does not help.

Fumigate does not remove any conditions from you, so take that off your list. And you are seriously listing transmute? 3% chance? That is so negligible it might as well not even exist.

The point of the thread wasn’t “engineers have no condition removal”, the point was “outside elixirs, engineers havekitten poor condition removal”.

Lyuben.2613:

Clearly as your post indicates, you cannot comprehend and read the point………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
The point of the thread wasn’t “engineers have no condition removal”, the point was “outside elixirs, engineers havekitten poor condition removal”.

I love how anytime someone disagrees with you, or see’s something differently, that you attack them and claim they can’t read or comprehend.

I understand completely what you are getting at and I disagree. If that hurts your feeling, then that is your problem.

coglin.1496:

Lyuben.2613:

The point of the thread wasn’t “engineers have no condition removal”, the point was “outside elixirs, engineers havekitten poor condition removal”.

I love how anytime someone disagrees with you, or see’s something differently, that you attack them and claim they can’t read or comprehend.

I understand completely what you are getting at and I disagree. If that hurts your feeling, then that is your problem.

You claimed that the problem was “lack of condition removal”, that is wrong. The problem isn’t that. You are wrong in that post, there is no getting around it, I do acknowledge that engineers have quite a few ways, the trouble is though, that most of the good and reliable ones are pigeonholed into elixirs.

Note the title of the thread “Condition-removal-on-engineers-seems-too-pigeonholed”

“clearly as the original post states, We cannot remove conditions.”

This was what you said. You are claiming that the thread is about the lack of ability to remove conditions. Well I am telling you that, that is wrong. You are wrong by making that claim, I have never made it.

And really Coglin, that’s an awfully big glass house behind you. You might want to tone down all these stones you’re throwing. Remember that mythical quote that you said exists that said that engineers will never get racial toolbelts? Remember it? The one you said was ‘common knowledge’, yet provided no evidence for it?

What happened there? On my human engineer, I’m pretty sure my ‘prayer to kormir’ has a toolbelt skill.

Could it be that you were wrong? Just like you are now?

Lyuben.2613:

Note the title of the thread “Condition-removal-on-engineers-seems-too-pigeonholed”

Last time I checked elixir gun is a kit, and I can remove conditions from myself with it as fact as you can put them on me.

Your simply incorrect.

I can use kit refinement and keep condition removal up 100% of the time for myself and anyone else there.

We have 4 sets of utility options, Kits (of which 2 remove conditions), turrets (of which the healing turret offers complete conditions removal), elixirs (tons of condition removal) and gadgets.

Out of all that, gadgets are they only one of the 4 that do not remove conditions. 3/4 of our utility option sets offer great conditions removal. So umm,yeah, excuse me if I scoff at tthe claims that we are pigeon holed.