Guild Wars 2

This thread attempts to cover the Core Specialization changes to Engineer, and how they affect the builds that I play or have played in PvP. Note that these are just my opinions and predictions, and may not be accurate. Also note that all of these are subject to change before core specializations go live— they might be vastly different by then.

Table of Contents
Post 1: You are here
Post 2: Changes Overview
Post 3: The Impact
Post 4: Celestial ’nades
Post 5: Celestial Bombs
Post 6: Celestial Flamethrower
Post 7: Static Discharge
Post 8: Condi ’nades
Post 9: Condi Bombs
Post 10: Bunker Engi
Post 11: The PvP Amulet Problem pt 1
Post 12: The PvP Amulet Problem pt 2
Post 13: The Teal Deer
Post 14: Feedback and Suggestions
Post 15: TBD Trait Suggestions

The Changes:

• Rifled Barrels made baseline
• Forceful Explosives made baseline
• Accelerent-packed Turrets made baseline, but CC effect now only occurs on manual detonation through toolbelt detonate skills
• Grenade Kit range reduced to 900, skills now through 3 grenades regardless of traiting
• Mortar becomes Mortar Kit, intended to replace Grenade Kit as our long range option
• Elite Skills get toolbelt skills on F5, mortar kits f5 is an AoE ground-targeted laser, toss elixir x is a short AoE moa morph
• Med Kit #1 is now a cone AoE, #2 puts down something that provides AoE buffs, 3 is now quickness, 4-5 unchanged
• Poison Field removed from Poison Grenade
• Hobosacks gone
• Supply Crate becomes turret with overcharge and detonate
• Pistol 1 and Rifle 5 are now considered explosions/explosives and benefit from relevant traits (both hits on jump shot)
• Coated Bullets becomes baseline

Traits <— click link here for spreadsheet

The Impact

General

Rifled Barrels becoming baseline is absolutely huge for rifle builds. Every build with rifle now gets a 600 range Overcharged Shot, a comparatively strong autoattack that hits reliably at 1200 range, and Jump Shot as a (good) movement skill when needed. 600 range OS is huge in PvP, allowing you to CC unpredictably and interrupt key skills such as battle standard more often (because you’re in range more often). RB was a very powerful trait before, and the only reason it wasn’t taken more often was that it meant giving up either the combination of Inertial Converter and Power Wrench (or Leg Mods) in tools or Backpack Regenerator in alchemy for grenade builds, either of which is a serious hit to survivability.

Accelerant-packed Turrets is similarly game-changing, except for p/s and p/p builds as well as rifle builds. Having a melee-denying CC on your burst heal can be amazing, especially because you can chain other CCs off of it easily, or land a burst skill because of it. The other difference between APT and RB is that while RB was often only taken by berserker builds due to defense restraints, APT was taken by nearly everyone already. No longer needing to spec into Explosives for it is pretty huge for a lot of Engineer builds. The removal of its CC upon (non-detonated) turret death shouldn’t really bother anyone that wasn’t running turrets before, especially now that Supply Crate can be detonated manually.

Celestial ’nades
Before:
6/0/0/4/4, nade/tk/SS or nade/tk/elixir s, with APT, IP, Grenadier, Invig Speed, Backpack Regen, SK, and Power Wrench or Leg Mods
After:
Explosives (I, IV, [VIII | IX]), Tools (III, IV, ?), and either Alchemy (III, IV, ?) or Inventions (II, V, VII)

The most import change to the celestial ‘nade build is, of course, the Grenadier change. Gone are the days when you could pressure mid on foefire with grenades from the west or east ledges while watching home or far at the same time. Similarly, you can no longer provide good downed cleave from 1.5k range. However, all is not lost; far from it in fact. While the range reduction certainly hurts us, especially against power rangers and greatsword mesmers, the new Grenadier helps grenades where they were most effective before [in pvp], at lower ranges. With the +velocity and +radius gains, you’ll be able to hit far more consistently between 400 and 8-900 range, and essentially all of your grenades below that will hit. The new frost grenade radius will be ridiculously large, completely covering most small points. You’ll be able to stand near a point and unleash far more havok on it than you could before. Personally I think this more than makes up for the range nerf, considering we now have 1.2k range rifle autos, and, if it turns out to be very good, the mortar kit as well.

Trait choices:

Explosives- Essentially necessary for a [celestial] grenade build. Grenadier is nearly as important as before as it actually makes your grenades hit, and you get +10% damage and vulnerability on explosives from the minors. For the master trait you would either take +damage vs vulnerable foes , or short fuse if you were taking bomb kit as well. For GM you get either shrapnel for cripple as a cover condition, or blast finisher on dodge bomb for the additional heal or for blasting allied fire fields. Overall a lot of additional damage and pressure from this line, but also the possibility of team support.

Tools- This line is still pretty huge for engineers in PvP. It lowers the cooldown of your stunbreak (if taking slick shoes or elixir gun) significantly, provides an automatic recharge for it when your health gets low, gives you the speed needed to rotate quickly with speedy kits, and increases both your survivability and burst damage with Power Wrench. The merge of Speedy Kits and Kit Refinement will give you the occasional mine drop or short super speed, but requires serious micromanagement to use to maximum effect. The swiftness use competing with the kit refinement use will be a pain, unless ANet sees the light and makes kit refinement proc only in combat. Always Prepared could be taken over Power Wrench for the fun of watching enemies CC themselves trying to stomp you, but probably won’t be seen often. Unfortunately the GM slot doesn’t offer much to celestial grenadiers unless you run with elixir s, in which case you can get a little extra condi removal from 409. Hopefully the TBD’s in this line will be good and worth taking.

Alchemy- The previously obvious choice. Invigorating Speed and Backpack Regenerator remain very strong. Grandmaster choice would be Automated Response, or the HGH+Fast Acting Elixirs combo for the elixir s variant (lower cooldown safe stomp). Still a very solid defensive line.

Inventions- The other competing defensive line, now with good enough defensive traits to actually, you know, compete, which the previous inventions line did not do. Now with ally support: your heal skill removes damaging conditions from allies, grant regen to yourself and allies when removing conditions, and a flat healing power increase under the effects of regen from the minors. The majors offer blast finisher on heal (which may be OP the blast occurs after Cleansing Burt’s field goes down), heal on blast finisher (for healing dodges with IX in explosives), and either med kits on crit from bunker down or heal others for a % of incoming heals for more team support. Depending on how this line is handled, this one could become the go-to defense line over alchemy, despite alchemy’s high vigor uptime and passive heal. If the adept minor removes conditions from you as well on heal, or if the heal on blast finisher is high, this will likely be the case, and most builds will take inventions over alchemy and an energy sigil to make up for the lost vigor.

Nerfs:

• Grenade range
• Poison field gone- no more throw wrench through poison grenade combo
• Incendiary Powder unreachable without screwing over defenses
• Celestial amulet nerf *

Buffs:

• Grenade velocity/radius
• Explosives damage, further damage vs vulnerable foes
• Rifled Barrels
• Larger radius bomb dodge, blast on dodge
• Free elixir traits for elixir s users

Result: Mixed, see Stats -> Amulets Issue

Celestial Bombs

I know what you’re thinking. ‘Celestial what now?’ It’s a thing. Or at least, it will be after these changes go through. It’s playable right now, and, while obviously less useful than cele nades, it still works pretty well, though it’s not quite as good as condi bombs right now. After this it will be, though. All the blast finisher traits plus a couple of the new baseline things mean you can do a whole lot more with this build.

Before:
6/0/0/4/4 Bomb/TK/EGun
After
Explosives (?, VI, IX), Inventions (II, V, [VII | VIII), Tools (III, IV, ?)

Faster bomb explosions and blast finisher on dodge in explosives are both huge. You can stack might with dodges in Fire Bomb’s field, which is lower recharge than the elementalist equivalent, and combo acid bomb and BoB into it as well for high might stacks, which will make your bombs hit like a truck, as well as strong burning/confusion. First trait in explosives could be that explosive rocket belt thingy triat, or the TBD if it turns out to be better. Either way, you get an extra trait, with no need to take Forceful Explosives.

Inventions gives you the extra blast finisher on heal, for more might blasting, as well as heal on blast finisher, which you’ve got quite a lot of, so you should have a ton of sustain without even speccing into alchemy. You get free med kits from bunker down as well, for even more healz.

Tools is obvious, the speed and lower Gear Shield cooldown. Again hopefully the TBD GM will be useful. If you wanted you could sacrifice that speed for even higher sustain and burst defense from alchemy. If you went that route you might be better off running clerics and going full bunker. You’re getting the might stacks for damage anyway.

Nerfs:

• No Incendiary Powder
• Celestial nerf

Buffs:

• Faster bomb explosions
• Ridiculous numbers of blast finishers
• Healz on those blast finishers
• Rocket Belt Thingamajig
• Free med kitz
• Rifled Barrels

Result: Hella buffed.

Celestial FT

I expect this to become more of a thing as well after these changes. However, there’s a lot more ambiguity here than with the Cele Bombs build, which is obviously getting some very big buffs. A lot of this ambiguity comes from questions of what is (or isn’t) in a couple of the new traits, but a good amount also comes from not knowing how the condition changes will affect burning, and how the burning durations on FT will change. The amulet may also be subject to change, like with the nade and bomb builds, but the core idea of the build remains the same: sustained hybrid damage with high power-based burst, while maintaining enough survivability through stats and traits to stay on point through small fights.

Before:
4/4/0/4/2 Rifle, FT, TK, Egun
After:
Firearms (?, IV, VIII), ?, ?

The first main question I have here is about Juggernaut. The way I heard the changes is that it is returning to its previous functionality of providing Stability while wielding FT, however with that Stability pulsing now due to the new system, and losing its current functionality of +toughness and Might every 3s while in FT. However, others have told me that it will be retaining its current functionality, and the Stability function will be added on top of that. This is obviously a pretty serious question for FT builds, as the might gained from the current Juggernaut is a good part of what lets them deal the hybrid damage they need to work, and losing that would lower the damage output quite a bit. On the other hand, gaining Stability on top of the current Juggernaut functionality might just be too strong. The stability itself will be a very strong mechanic, allowing you to Overcharged Shot without the CC, and giving Engineer the ability to actually bunker a point and not be decapped eventually by someone who just happens to have 2 knockbacks or similar CCs in their build.

The second question is regarding Robo Legs. The description says it will reduce soft CC durations (Leg Mods) and increase the effectiveness of Swiftness, but unless I’m mistaken it was mentioned on the stream that they were merging the Power Shoes trait into this. If Robo Legs does indeed receive the flat +25% movement speed of Power Shoes, it would negate the need to go into Tools for Speedy Kits, and would allow you to take Firearms/Inventions/Alchemy for largely increased survivability. You would also take the Precise Sights + Infused Precision merger to make great use of Invigorating Speed in alchemy, giving you high vigor uptime and negating the need for an energy sigil. You would lose out on the +damage and -cooldown Rifle trait, which would hurt your offensive capabilities, but it would be more than worth it in my opinion.

If Robo Legs does not give the flat +25% movement speed, though, you’re stuck going into tools, where you would take the usual Power Wrench + Speedy Kit Refinement + X, leaving you only 1 traitline for defense. Either Alchemy for Invigorating Speed + Backpack Regenerator + X, or Inventions for Blast Heal traits and Bunker Down with an energy sigil, depending on which ends up being stronger.

Nerfs:

• No Incendiary Powder because you need the Stability (+might?) from Juggernaut for defense and bursts
• Celestial Nerf

Buffs:

• Stability
• Rifled Barrels
• ?
• ?
• ?

Result: ????, depending on a lot of unknown factors, but most likely overall buff (how much?)

Static Discharge

Before:
2/6/0/0/6 Rifle, TK, Rifle Turret, Elixir S
After:
Firearms ([II | III], IV, [VII | IX]), Tools (I, IV, VIII), and either Alchemy (III, IV, VII) or Inventions (II, V, VII)

The Static Discharge build gets some pretty serious buffs as well. Accelerant-Packed Turrets becoming baseline allows you take a full defensive line instead of being stuck in Explosives. Rifled Barrels becoming baseline also opens up another trait in Firearms for you, and the Rifle traits merge opens up yet another. You can take either additional crit chance on your up-close burst, or vulnerability and swiftness on crit, which, when combined with Invigorating Speed in Alchemy, puts you at nearly permanent vigor, something which only elementalists have right now. You also get either Mod Ammo or Incendiary Powder for additional damage. It’s unclear which will turn out to be the higher damage increase currently, with the burning changes on the horizon.

The alchemy line, besides providing near perma vigor, also gives you Backpack Regenerator, which will help when escaping and resetting fights, and the HGH+Fast Acting Elixirs combination, which gives you a shorter cooldown on your escape and safe stomp. There are also a TBD minor and grandmaster to consider. All of this will likely put it ahead of Inventions in terms of defense, but depending on the flat healing numbers, that might change.

Nerfs:

• No more bomb on dodge
• No more Power Wrench
• No more Adrenal Implant (depending on Robo Legs functionality)

Buffs:

• Perma vigor
• Backpack Regen
• Elixir traits for Elixir S
• Mod Ammo

Result: Buffed (major +defense, minor +damage)

Condi ’nades

Before:
6/2/0/4/2, p/p, nade/tk/x
After:
???

The condi nades build suffers quite a bit from these changes. Incendiary Powder moving to Firearms means you have to take that line, especially with the condition focused Pistol trait in there. The range change to Grenadier hurts the condi build a bit more than cele, as you have less melee-focused burst and could (previously) afford to play more at higher range. Down to 900 range hurts a little, but it in no way destroys the build. That said, you have to make a choice. Do you go into Explosives to make your grenades actually hit, and get cripple as a cover condition, and forgo any defensive lines? Or do you give that up, screwing with your grenades condi output, and take defenses instead? Or do you take a defensive line, but give up the speed that Tools brings, which makes rotating and escaping so easy for an Engineer in PvP? No matter which route you take, you’re losing something of value from the previous build.

If Robo Legs does include the flat +25% movement speed from Power Shoes, you can leave out Tools and only miss out on a little speed and toolkit recharges, though. This would mean you could go Explosives, Firarms, Alchemy, and take Protection Injection and Backpack Regenerator as well as an energy sigil to keep yourself alive. Unfortunately due to the pistol trait at adept tier in Firearms, you can’t take the Precise Sights combination trait and Invigorating Speed for perma vigor. Alternatively, Inventions over Alchemy, and pray that the burst heals do enough to keep you alive.

As with other condi builds though, we won’t be able to determine exactly how effective it will be due to the burning changes.

Nerfs:

• Grenade range
• Damage traits in 2 lines instead of previous 1
• Can’t take both Invig Speed and Prot Injection like the previous 6/0/0/6/2 build

Buffs:

• Grenade radius/speed
• Pistol 1 AoE baseline

Result: Nerfed (hard if Robo Legs has no passive +IMS)

Condi Bombs

Before:
6/0/0/6/2 p/s bomb/tk/x
After:
Explosives (?, VI, IX), Firearms (I, VI, IX), Inventions (II, V, VII), or Explosives, Inventions, Tools (III, IV, ?), p/s bomb/tk/egun

Condi Bombs again suffers the problem of having its important traits that were previously concentrated in Explosives now spread through both Explosives and Firearms. Explosives holds your reduced cd on bomb skills, which now also makes bombs detonate faster, as well as the vulnerability cover condition and blast finisher on dodge. Firearms has Incendiary Powder’s burn and +33% burn duration, the condition-focused pistol trait which may or may not be worth taking with p/s, and either a flat condi damage increase or Robo Legs.

Taking both Explosives and Firearms leaves you with 1 line left for defensive traits. Inventions, for additional heals from blast finishers and Bunker Down, or Alchemy, for Protection Injection and Backpack Regenerator, are the obvious choices. Assuming Robo Legs gives a flat +25% movement speed buff, you can take one of these without screwing your speed over. If it doesn’t, you take one of these anyways, because you’d have some big problems surviving in melee without any defensive traits on a bomb build. You could sacrifice one of your damage lines for Tools, but which one? Losing Explosives means losing your shorter cooldowns, your cover condition, and your might stacking. Losing Firearms on the other hand means losing your additional burning and whatever the pistol trait gives, as well as either robo legs or the flat condi damage increase. I’m not sure which one is worse at this point. It could go either way, depending on the new burning, but at this point I’m going to say that losing your might stacking would be worse.

Nerfs:

• Damage traits spread from 1 line to 2
• Large speed or defense losses
• Loss of prot injection/invig speed/backpack regen

Buffs:

• Might stacking through blast dodge
• Free adept in Explosives
• Blast healz
• Pistol 1 AoE

Results: Mixed. Higher damage due to Might stacking, but lower survivability (especially against burst), and lower speed (or damage). Burn changes are again a big unknown.

Bunker Engineer

Before:
2/0/6/6/0 p/s Bomb/TK/EGun
After:
Firearms (I, VI, VIII), Inventions ([I | II], V, VIII), Alchemy (I, IV, VIII) p/s FT, TK, EGun

Bunkering has always been something that Engineer was bad at. A complete lack of stability and low availabilty of stunbreaks made us an easy target for decaps on all but the largets of points. We also had very low access to safe-stomps and safe-resses, again due to lack of stability access. The addition of Stability to Juggernaut changes that. The build also gains Accelerant-packed Turrets and trade’s Big Ol’ Bomb for the lower cooldown Air Blast, which should make decapping easier vs 1 opponent.

Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, there’s quite another large change. Elixir Infused Bombs is gone. EIBombs was our sustain— over 300 hp/s from it, which applied to nearby allies as well. To replace it we have the Healsplosion, which combos pretty well with FT because of Flame Blast. To make the best use of it, though, we would need to go into Explosives for blast finisher on dodge, which is all well and good, but removes the protection on CC and ~170hp/s we receive from Alchemy. Depending on how high the healing on Healsplosion is, this may be worth it. It may even come out as higher hp/s for 6/6/6 than the old EIBombs + Backpack Regenerator. But I doubt it. We have 4 TBD’s in Alchemy to consider as well, and combined with the protection, I think Alchemy will come out on top by a good amount for personal defense, but Explosives will end up with higher outgoing healing.

Depending on whether Robo Legs gets a flat IMS boost, this build may suddenly become a lot slower than before, not that it was very fast in the first place.

Nerfs:

• No more Elixir Infused Bombs
• No more confusion and burning from Bomb Kit
• No more BoB + Glue Bomb for AoE havoc CC
• No more smoke bomb for stealthing downed allies

Buffs:

• STABILITY
• APTurrets
• Reduced soft CC durations with Robo Legs
• Condition removal and regeneration in Inventions

Result: Buffed. Stability is huge. Even if outgoing healing is cut down significantly, our bunkering capability goes up a lot.

The PvP Amulet Problem and Build Diversity

With the moving of stats from traitlines into amulets, the problem of amulets limiting build diversity becomes even more apparent. Hopefully we will see an overhaul of the amulet system by the time the core specialization changes go live.

What’s the problem?

The problem is the limit of stat customization in PvP. Currently PvP stats come from 3 places:

• Amulets, where the majority of your stat points come from, which are limited in their stat combinations. Most combinations involve 3 stats, while a couple others provide 4 with a slightly higher stat total, and the celestial amulet, which provides all 7 in equal amounts, with an even higher stat total. At minimum, amulets provide 2232 stat points; at maximum they provide 3066.
• Traits, which provide up to 1400 total extra stat points through trait lines, and occasionally additional (small) amounts through conversion traits. It’s very rarely as high as 1400, though, as lines often have +boon duration, +condi duration, or a profession specific attribute on them, but this is still a large amount.
• Runes, which usually provide +175 to one stat, occasionally with a secondary, lower +stat, or conversion bonus
• Stacking sigils (mostly unused in the current meta), which provide at maximum +250 to one stat.

As you can see, the majority of stat points come from amulets, which are rigidly limited in stat combinations, and most of the rest come from traitlines.

The idea of having a limited number of stat combinations possible to reduce the amount of balancing needed is sound enough, but unfortunately all professions are not created equal. Some professions have far lower base health than others, and some have for lower base armor. This means that some professions rely more on toughness and/or on vitality than others. For professions with low base health, playing without additional vitality is simply not an option. There is simply too much unavoidable damage in PvP. Similarly, playing without additional toughness is not an option for classes with low base armor. This alone limits the number of viable amulets for these professions. Rabid Elementalist can’t work, because 13k (with traits) HP is too kitten low. Similarly, Carrion Elementalist can’t work, because 2.1k (with traits) armor is too kitten low as well. This effectively cuts off all condition builds for Elementalists, and forces them into either celestial or full power for damage. It has similar effects on other professions as well.

Currently, some classes can mitigate these needs by taking 6 into their vitality and/or toughness lines, allowing amulets that lack either toughness or vitality to work. After the core specialization changes however, these stats from traitlines will be moving, partially into base stats, and partially into amulets. This means the end to rounding out your build via traits. No longer will you be able to play Rabid Engineer and reach 18k HP. Some builds will be completely destroyed because of this, if the amulet system isn’t changed accordingly.

So what can be done about it?

The first and perhaps most obvious solution is to increase the diversity on amulets. Introduce more amulets with both Toughness and Vitality in them; more amulets with 4 or even 5 different stats on them. This doesn’t solve all of the problem though, and leaves you with a ton of different amulets.

The second solution is to allow multiple stat combinations to be used at once. For example, instead of an Amulet which determines the majority of you stats, you would have those same stats spread through an Amulet, a Ring, and an Earring, all of which you could choose different stat distributions for if you so chose. We had a similar system before, but with 2 items (amulet and jewel, with something like an 80%/20% split between them), and I can’t for the life of me understand why it was removed. Allowing multiple prefix selections means you can round out your build how you want, without being able to choose ridiculous/overpowered stat combinations. Unlike a flat, perfectly customizable stat system, where you start with a number of points and can put them into anything you choose, an amulet/ring/earring/whatever system does not allow you to build more offensive or more defensive than the current system allows.

Additionally, a multi-item prefix selection system could allow for new stat prefixes to be tested and slowly introduced into PvP. For example, the Zealot’s prefix could be made selectable for one item (Ring), and the devs could watch which builds took it, and whether they became particularly more powerful because of it, and either remove the prefix or add it for more pieces accordingly. Build diversity is key to enjoyment for a lot of players, and we should be working to increase it in PvP, not decrease it.

TL;DR

Accelerant-Packed Turrets for everyone is a big buff

Rifled Barrels baseline is a very huge buff for rifle users

Grenade range nerf hurts, but not nearly as much in PvP as it does in other modes (WvW)

New Grenadier is a big buff— grenades now hit consistently nearly up to their maximum range (900)

Stats from traitlins into amulets can be very bad if not handled correctly

Single-item stat customization systems are bad

Cele bombs becomes a (strong) thing

Cele FT becomes more of a thing

Static Discharge gets survivability buff

Condi ’nades gets nerf

Bunker Engi becomes a thing (Stability Hype)

Feedback and Suggestions

Robo Legs needs to have the passive +25% movement speed that Power Shoes had. If it doesn’t, a trait with the effect needs to be introduced and added to a line that isn’t Tools, in a place where it doesn’t compete with any other must-take traits. If neither of these happen, all builds will either be forced into Tools, losing out on either a dps line or an important defensive line, or forced to deal with the loss of damage and important effects that comes from taking Speed or Traveler’s runes. Having no permanent IMS bonus simply isn’t viable for an Engineer in conquest.

Speaking of Tools, the line actually looks like it got the short end of the stick with these changes. It has Speedy Kit Refinement, which is a must-take, but other than that it seems pretty lackluster. Power Wrench provides an okay increase in defense, but is taken more for the utility and damage increases it brings. Other than that and the toolbelt skill recharge (and instant recharge), there really isn’t anything all that defensive in the line for most builds. Adrenal Implant is decent, but it will almost never be taken because it competes with Speedy Kit Refinement. The grandmasters are sorely lacking— 2 traits that are only useful (if then) to people who take certain rarely-used utility types, and a TBD. That TBD trait needs to be relevant to (nearly) all builds, and good enough to warrant its grandmaster position, or Tools will feel like a line taken just for Speedy Kit Refinement.

Alchemy is in a similar (if not nearly so bad) position with its Grandmaster traits. The HGH+FAE combo is nice for players taking Elixir S, but other players get… Automated Response. AR, which went from great to hardly ever taken when nerfed a while back. Either the health threshold needs to increase on this trait, or the condition durations applied to you need to decrease further. As is, most people would rather take another adept trait instead. The TBD trait being good and usable by most all builds could fix this problem.

If the new Juggernaut trait doesn’t include its previous might stacking functionality, Flamethrower will need a new (useful) trait to compete as a main damage kit.

Elixir Gun is a mess right now. It tries to do a whole lot of things, but ends up outclassing other options in one of those (allied condition removal). I would like to see Elixir Gun end up as a utility kit that rivals Toolkit, but doesn’t become too powerful in a toolkit/EGun/(damage kit) type build. Right now it lacks the personal defense to do that, but perhaps the new trait could change that. It would have to be balanced in such a way that the defense + heal + stunbreak from EGun nears or equals the usefulness of the defense + CC + damage of Toolkit. It would be nice to see Engi builds without toolkit compete for once.

Gadgets and Elixirs still need a lot of work. Only 1 skill from each currently sees use, and I doubt that will change unless core specializations are really good to them. Right now it looks like they aren’t, at least in the case of Elixirs (Gadget trait is TBD). The elixir traits are spread through 2 lines, Alchemy and Tools, both of which are defensive/utility lines. This alone kind of kills elixir builds. They need to be consolidated into one line, or at least spread between a defensive line and an offensive line, and preferably not be competing with any must-take traits. Even still, elixirs need help. Buffing HGH to give 2 might stacks on toss as well as consume would certainly help, but one of the main problems of elixir builds right now is how bad Elixir H is compared to Healing Turret. I would like to see the random element removed from it (give all boons but lower duration, or give different boons depending on your health threshold), as it currently hurts the skill. Elixir C needs to become instant cast so elixir builds can deal with fear, and I’d like to see Toss Elixir C grant short duration Resistance as well.

Gadgets need a lot of things, a lot more than any one trait can give them. AED needs a useful toolbelt skill, Personal Battering Ram needs a functional toolbelt skill (the daze currently does nothing) and a lower cooldown. Rocket Boots needs the end roll fixed not to launch you in a random direction sometimes, and the blast finisher moved to the beginning of the skill. Utility Goggles needs the Fury portion of the skill moved to Analyze, with a lower duration, so as to not compete with the defensive portion of the skill.

Turrets need a complete rework. I have a lot of thoughts on this, but I’d rather not derail this completely. I may make a later post/rant about this.

TBD Trait Suggestions

Explosives III: The other two competing traits in this tier cover both grenade builds and power builds, so I think the 3rd trait needs to bring something for more condition or hybrid damage focused builds. I have two suggestions for this slot— either place the old Enhance Performance here, or a new trait which grants Might (1 stack, 15s duration) whenever you use a blast finisher. I think might on blast follows the general Explosives line idea of enhancing your explosives pretty well, but it might end up being a little overboard when combined with other blast traits and bomb kit’s fire fields.

Inventions VI: Honestly I think if the trait in this slot isn’t really good, it will hardly ever be taken over heal on blast finisher, which has synergy with a ton of other traits and skills as is. I would like the old Protective Shield put here, with a slight reduction on its internal cooldown (20s → 16s).

Alchemy 3rd Minor: I’d like to see this minor help allies a little, as the minors in Inventions do, but I kind of also want to keep the offensive aspect of the previous trait here. I think the retaliation boon has a good offensive-defensive balance, and would do well in the Alchemy line. So something like this: Using a toolbelt skill grants retaliation (2s) to allies within a (300) radius.

Alchemy IX: This trait needs to offer something useful to all (or nearly all) builds. Currently Alchemy GMs offer a good trait for elixir users, and Automated Response, which needs rebalancing. The Alchemy line already offers strong personal defenses, so I think this trait should either be team oriented or offensive in nature. For the more offensive side, I’d suggest granting Fury (5s) on heal (15s cd).

Tools VI: This trait isn’t going to be taken ever because it competes with Speedy Kit Refinement and Adrenal Implant, so I don’t think it really matters what goes here. Sorry.

Tools VII Gadget Trait: Gadgeteer and Speedy Gadgets get merged here, of course, but it needs another effect on top of that to make all or mostly gadget builds work. I suggest adding an effect that cuts down the recharge time of a gadget’s toolbelt skill by ~50% when you use that gadget.

Tools IX: With Gadget and Elixir traits in the other GM spots for Tools, this trait needs to be usable by anyone, and not tied to a specific utility type. The old Armor Mods would do well here— useful and defensive.

Reserved for future ranting.

That’s some huge work you’ve done there, hats off !

I’ve watched the stream too and I can say your analysis is quite accurate (given the info). As you said, it can always (and probably will for some things) change, but at least your thread lets people have a clear preview of what could be done with the post-extension engineer !

Added feedback and TBD trait suggestion sections.

Very good analysis. Can’t believe I actually read an entire thread for once!

And I just noticed there is a TBD where Energy Conversion Matrix is supposed to be. I didn’t catch that the first time for whatever reason..Your suggestion is good, but honestly I would rather they just not change it at all.

I like it as it is now too, but I think moving away from passive traits and into more active and strategic traits is pretty important, at least for PvP. For PvE I’d honestly rather them just split skills and traits and balance separately.