DPS Comparison for Mortar Shot

DPS Comparison for Mortar Shot

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Posted by: ocirne.7915

ocirne.7915

Below you can see the skill coeficients for all the skills (Directly correlates to DPS)
Before the nerf to Mortar Shot, it had effectively the same DPS as bomb kit auto attack. Which in my humble opinion is perfectly fine for an elite skill; a ranged bomb kit but with way worse conditions.

After the nerf, it has identical DPS to Hip Shot, which is a way faster projectile, and cannot be sidestepped.

Pre nerf, Mortar shot was an excelent alternative to Grenade Kit (PvE) trading vulnerability for some more DPS. Post nerf, there is absolutely zero reason to use it.

Mortar shot (Pre nerf without +10%)
0.80 Mortar shot attack speed
0.88 Mortar shot attack mod
1.10 Mortar shot effective dps

Mortar shot (Post nerf with +10%)
0.80 Mortar shot attack speed
0.70 Mortar shot attack mod
0.87 Mortar shot effective dps

Mortar shot (Post nerf without +10%)
0.80 Mortar shot attack speed
0.64 Mortar shot attack mod
0.80 Mortar shot effective dps

1.00 Grenade attack speed
0.87 Grenade attack mod
0.87 Grenade attack effective dps

1.00 Bomb attack speed
1.10 Bomb attack mod
1.10 Bomb effective dps

0.75 Hip shot attack speed(traited)
0.65 Hip shot attack mod
0.87 Hip shot effective DPS

(edited by ocirne.7915)

DPS Comparison for Mortar Shot

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Posted by: Roo.2037

Roo.2037

This is the dumbest nerf in a while, it’s baseless and no one asked for it.

DPS Comparison for Mortar Shot

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Posted by: Xyonon.3987

Xyonon.3987

So here we are again:
nades>mortar>rifle

Same damage, but different stacks of vuln. I wish some more love for mortar. Nade #1 is just a filler, you spam #2 #4 and #5 for dps, wich is even higher than bomb #1. And Mortar #2-4 are all WEAKER than the basic attack. Either increase the basic attack damage to fit between nade and bomb or buff the damage of #2-#4

Ziggs Ironeye – Engineer | Madame Le Blanc – Mesmer | Mentor (PvE) | EU
“Mentoring engineers / mesmers and showing you what you can do with your fantastic class!
Just pm me for my advice! Always eager to help!”

DPS Comparison for Mortar Shot

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Posted by: Knox.8962

Knox.8962

Your numbers don’t look accurate. Where did you get those?

DPS Comparison for Mortar Shot

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Posted by: ocirne.7915

ocirne.7915

Your numbers don’t look accurate. Where did you get those?

I calculated them using the formula:

Skill Coefficient = ( Tooltip Damage * Target Armor) / ( Average Weapon Strength * Power )

Assuming an armor value of 2600 (Tooltips use this value).
Used an ascended rifle and 2521 power. I went over it a couple of times, it’s correct.

For the times i simply counted the number of attacks over a minute by hand, its probably not 100% accurate buy quite close.

(edited by ocirne.7915)

DPS Comparison for Mortar Shot

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Posted by: Knox.8962

Knox.8962

Cast times for grenade and bombs was different pre-patch. I haven’t tested post patch cast times yet.

I thought mortar was 1.45x rifle damage pre-patch?

Don’t have access to the game at the moment so I can’t test.

DPS Comparison for Mortar Shot

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Posted by: ocirne.7915

ocirne.7915

Cast times for grenade and bombs was different pre-patch. I haven’t tested post patch cast times yet.

I thought mortar was 1.45x rifle damage pre-patch?

Don’t have access to the game at the moment so I can’t test.

Yeah they said 1.47x and that is not how it was in game. If not, then the tooltip is not correct which i doubt because the damage ratio’s between skills seemed to match the numbers.

I didnt test attack speed for bombs and nades, but they felt the same so i didnt re test them.

DPS Comparison for Mortar Shot

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Posted by: Phoebe Ascension.8437

Phoebe Ascension.8437

Remember that 28% on ‘bigger number’ might equal a higher % on lower number. Example to explain:

2 is base power (thus base damage to keep simple) of rifle.
1,47x is multiplier (47%).
2*1,47= 2,94

Now they did a nerf. But remember the nerf is on the last (bigger number), and has no correlation with the number where the 47% was applied on.

2,94 (now mortarr damage) (mortarr to fix filter).
-28% so
2,94*0,72 (if you substract , you can do it in one step, by just calculating left over % wich is 72 or 0,72) = 2,11

2 is start number, 2,11 is end number. kitten close heh? And yet they played with 47% and 28% number (huge difference on paper).

Lol fact: Mortar + damage is filtered (remove +). Cause it combines into a negative word lol (last 3 of first word + d)

Legendary weapons can be hidden now!
No excuse anymore for not giving ‘hide mounts’-option
No thanks to unidentified weapons.

(edited by Phoebe Ascension.8437)

DPS Comparison for Mortar Shot

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Posted by: Casia.4281

Casia.4281

tooltips lie. never use them as basis.

They did not previously reflect ascended weapons. not sure why you would trust them to now.

that said, I tested and got .8s attack/s for mortar as well, in the mists. sure FELT faster then that.

Skills are ALSO notorious for functioning differently in pve and spvp. be sure to quality where testing was done.

Also, kit weapon strength is not the same as pistol or rifle weapon strength. you can’t compare rifle dps with mortar/grenade/bomb without also including rifles inherently higher weapon strength. or pistols lower for that matter.

(edited by Casia.4281)

DPS Comparison for Mortar Shot

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Posted by: ocirne.7915

ocirne.7915

tooltips lie. never use them as basis.

They did not previously reflect ascended weapons. not sure why you would trust them to now.

that said, I tested and got .8s attack/s for mortar as well, in the mists. sure FELT faster then that.

Skills are ALSO notorious for functioning differently in pve and spvp. be sure to quality where testing was done.

Also, kit weapon strength is not the same as pistol or rifle weapon strength. you can’t compare rifle dps with mortar/grenade/bomb without also including rifles inherently higher weapon strength. or pistols lower for that matter.

Yeah, seconds actually pass kinda fast. xD

Either way, even if the coeficient calculation doesnt work with ascended, atleast the relations between the numbers should still be right. (assuming everything is equally broken, doesnt make sense to use a different damage formula for every skill)

Everything was tested in PvE in a lvl 80 zone. And they recently fixed kit weapon damage so it uses your weapon strength. (Made having an asc weapon on engi really important)

(edited by ocirne.7915)

DPS Comparison for Mortar Shot

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Posted by: Gern.2978

Gern.2978

I am extremely upset about this nerf. It was unnecessary, and ruined mortar kit.

Hi, my name is Gern, and I’m an altoholic….

DPS Comparison for Mortar Shot

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Posted by: Casia.4281

Casia.4281

ps. kitten on these new specs…

I can’t NOT get 10% damage buff from explosions or 90%+ endurance.
Alch/inventions, great no passive damage buffs… But forced to take explosive or tools for 3rd.
This is going to make testing a pain in the kitten .

(edited by Casia.4281)

DPS Comparison for Mortar Shot

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Posted by: Casia.4281

Casia.4281

Everything was tested in PvE in a lvl 80 zone. And they recently fixed kit weapon damage so it uses your weapon strength. (Made having an asc weapon on engi really important)

yes. but tooltips do not reflect this. They show the old 926 weapon kit str across all weapon rarites, NOT the 1017 ascended weapon str, or 976 exotic, etc..

DPS Comparison for Mortar Shot

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Posted by: Casia.4281

Casia.4281

some quick testing in southshore.
mortar 1. only +damage mod should be 10% end from full end.
1017 ascended kit weapon str, 1574 power. reef riders-est 2300 armor.
551 low-624 high.
588 ave.
8.44 est coeff. /10% end buff.
.767coeff. now, this is likely .75 given round numbers being used. estimated armor, and small sample size likely cause of variance. it is possible I am going the wrong way. and its .8 as well. but, I would be pretty certain its one of those two now. it is very clearly NOT .65 or .64 though.
patch notes do also lie, they said the same nonense about grenade barrage getting 33% nerf or some such, and that number was off. but to get .75coeff… the previous coeff would have had to be 1.05 or something. anyone know if that was trueish?

so, I believe post patch. mortar 1 is .75 coeff, .8 a/s speed, and 1017 ascended weapon str. untraited.
953 effective dps.

R1 for ref, is .65 coeff, .85a/s, and 1150 weapon str. untraited.
879 effective dps.

(edited by Casia.4281)

DPS Comparison for Mortar Shot

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Posted by: Phoebe Ascension.8437

Phoebe Ascension.8437

I just tested it and i only deals slightly higher damage then rifle. If rifle does 700, mokittenoes 800, if rifle 1500, mortar 1650. Thing is, mortar is harder to lane. It’s not like a long range (lead the wind trait) shot that cannot be strafed. Huge nerf for me. Yesterday on those same mobs, i did at least 2500 damage on crits.

Legendary weapons can be hidden now!
No excuse anymore for not giving ‘hide mounts’-option
No thanks to unidentified weapons.

DPS Comparison for Mortar Shot

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Posted by: zinkz.7045

zinkz.7045

This thread is pointless, there is a lot more to balance than DPS, mortar has 1500 range, it also has AOE – chill, heal, blind, posion, plus a waterfield, ice field, poison field, light field, and a blast finsiher.

DPS Comparison for Mortar Shot

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Posted by: ocirne.7915

ocirne.7915

This thread is pointless, there is a lot more to balance than DPS, mortar has 1500 range, it also has AOE – chill, heal, blind, posion, plus a waterfield, ice field, poison field, light field, and a blast finsiher.

It does matter for the PvE community, which is a lot more significant than the PvP one.

DPS Comparison for Mortar Shot

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Posted by: Phineas Poe.3018

Phineas Poe.3018

This thread is pointless, there is a lot more to balance than DPS, mortar has 1500 range, it also has AOE – chill, heal, blind, posion, plus a waterfield, ice field, poison field, light field, and a blast finsiher.

It does matter for the PvE community, which is a lot more significant than the PvP one.

In PvE you should be running the grenade kit since it stacks vulnerability better. There was no reason to ever use the auto attack before the nerf.

After they bugfix Supply Crate so it actually gives three blasts instead of one on detonation, you’ll end up taking that anyway.

[EG] Ethereal Guardians

DPS Comparison for Mortar Shot

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Posted by: ocirne.7915

ocirne.7915

This thread is pointless, there is a lot more to balance than DPS, mortar has 1500 range, it also has AOE – chill, heal, blind, posion, plus a waterfield, ice field, poison field, light field, and a blast finsiher.

It does matter for the PvE community, which is a lot more significant than the PvP one.

In PvE you should be running the grenade kit since it stacks vulnerability better. There was no reason to ever use the auto attack before the nerf.

After they bugfix Supply Crate so it actually gives three blasts instead of one on detonation, you’ll end up taking that anyway.

There was a reason, if you’re capped on vuln you should use mortar. And theres a lot more vuln around nowadays.

DPS Comparison for Mortar Shot

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Posted by: Mork vom Ork.2598

Mork vom Ork.2598


After they bugfix Supply Crate so it actually gives three blasts instead of one on detonation, you’ll end up taking that anyway.

The nerf to Mortar #1 damage just means it won’t be used below 900 range in PvE any more. The nerf might be a few % too hard but that is not game breaking.
As for elite skill choices however…

Mortar:
2 (situationally 4) blasts on 34 (40) seconds cooldown, a blind field, a long lasting water field, synergy with explosion and elixir traits

Supply Crate:
4 (if changed, now 2) blasts on 120 seconds cooldown, a short water field and some med packs, synergy (if fixed and turrets don’t melt instantaneously) with turret traits

I know which one I’m picking.

Still loving the smell of Napalm
Bill Kilgore – [BIER] – Seafarer’s Rest random Megaserver

DPS Comparison for Mortar Shot

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Posted by: Phineas Poe.3018

Phineas Poe.3018

This thread is pointless, there is a lot more to balance than DPS, mortar has 1500 range, it also has AOE – chill, heal, blind, posion, plus a waterfield, ice field, poison field, light field, and a blast finsiher.

It does matter for the PvE community, which is a lot more significant than the PvP one.

In PvE you should be running the grenade kit since it stacks vulnerability better. There was no reason to ever use the auto attack before the nerf.

After they bugfix Supply Crate so it actually gives three blasts instead of one on detonation, you’ll end up taking that anyway.

There was a reason, if you’re capped on vuln you should use mortar. And theres a lot more vuln around nowadays.

If you’re capped on vuln, if anything, you should use bombs. They hit harder than Mortar even before the nerf.

[EG] Ethereal Guardians

DPS Comparison for Mortar Shot

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Posted by: ocirne.7915

ocirne.7915

This thread is pointless, there is a lot more to balance than DPS, mortar has 1500 range, it also has AOE – chill, heal, blind, posion, plus a waterfield, ice field, poison field, light field, and a blast finsiher.

It does matter for the PvE community, which is a lot more significant than the PvP one.

In PvE you should be running the grenade kit since it stacks vulnerability better. There was no reason to ever use the auto attack before the nerf.

After they bugfix Supply Crate so it actually gives three blasts instead of one on detonation, you’ll end up taking that anyway.

There was a reason, if you’re capped on vuln you should use mortar. And theres a lot more vuln around nowadays.

If you’re capped on vuln, if anything, you should use bombs. They hit harder than Mortar even before the nerf.

That means you have to drop another kit. You still want to use shrapnel, freeze, poison grenades, flamethrower 2 and elixir gun 4 on cooldown for the max dps rotation. Mortar will simply replace the grenade auto attacks that are currently used as a filler in the max dps rotation.