Guild Wars 2

So I logged into gw2 on my engi today after a few months break and my first venture back out to wvw … 3 seconds later i was dead. Am i missing something or new gear that i am un aware off ? My engi is in full TA rabid exotics and rampager jewelry….

Neeks.2760:

So I logged into gw2 on my engi today after a few months break and my first venture back out to wvw … 3 seconds later i was dead. Am i missing something or new gear that i am un aware off ? My engi is in full TA rabid exotics and rampager jewelry….

I’m not 100% sure on your armor for WvW as I spend most of my time doing Tpvp, but I think you’re toughness and vitality is low.

Khrimace.6298:

Neeks.2760:

So I logged into gw2 on my engi today after a few months break and my first venture back out to wvw … 3 seconds later i was dead. Am i missing something or new gear that i am un aware off ? My engi is in full TA rabid exotics and rampager jewelry….

I’m not 100% sure on your armor for WvW as I spend most of my time doing Tpvp, but I think you’re toughness and vitality is low.

Also your armor is all gold.

Short answer: Thieves are ridiculous.

Long answer: D/D Steal/Backstab/CnD combo is ridiculous.

Don’t fret! Thiefs have auto kill buttons.
Actually, its probably because you’re out of practice. I have only 17k hp and 900ish toughness and kill most average thieves. Good ones just heal and stealth before I can finish them off. I’m full zerker exotic geared. There are many builds out there that you can mess around with now.

If you don’t want to die fast, increase toughness to over 1600. My tank build is over 2k toughness and I never die 1v1; but I hit like to wet noddle.

Also, I noticed you are running the MAC client beta. That’s your biggest problem right there.

Gearhead, egni DB
WE!

Amos.8760:

Khrimace.6298:

Neeks.2760:

So I logged into gw2 on my engi today after a few months break and my first venture back out to wvw … 3 seconds later i was dead. Am i missing something or new gear that i am un aware off ? My engi is in full TA rabid exotics and rampager jewelry….

I’m not 100% sure on your armor for WvW as I spend most of my time doing Tpvp, but I think you’re toughness and vitality is low.

Also your armor is all gold.

Your right!! he was after my gold gear !!! kitten thief.

Khrimace.6298:

Neeks.2760:

So I logged into gw2 on my engi today after a few months break and my first venture back out to wvw … 3 seconds later i was dead. Am i missing something or new gear that i am un aware off ? My engi is in full TA rabid exotics and rampager jewelry….

I’m not 100% sure on your armor for WvW as I spend most of my time doing Tpvp, but I think you’re toughness and vitality is low.

His vitality is fine (24k+). His toughness seems a bit low.
Either go full rekitten mode and have no toughness and vit or spec reasonable and balance toughness and vitality out.

I would say his vitality is actually quite high…. 1700? Thats decent alright.

Vitality means nothing at WWW - just 1-2 more hits to kill you.
Toughness >>> all

Full Exo Knight pwns

I recommend finding a good balance between toughness and vitality.
You need to be able to buffer/absorb those conditions because they bypass your toughness.
I can’t support the notion that vitality means nothing in WvW.

In the good raid (such as RG melee-raid, obviously) your incoming conditions will be permacleanced.

If honestly, I think there is no place to an Engineer in the good raids...

The balance between the defensive stats is key against that sort of spike damage.

The ‘main’ combo was 26,748 damage, followed up with 5519 from a Heartseeker and a couple auto attacks, for a good time of 32,267 damage. That’s a LOT of vitality; you need some toughness along with the hit points to give yourself a chance. Well-timed dodge rolls are your best mitigation though!

24k is pretty good actually. Dunno who thought it wasn’t high enough. I’m running 20k in pve.

The problem isn’t just that your gear is rare it is that the thief and ranger are both designed to get enemies down with bonuses to their initial hits, engis unfortunately are highly imbalanced with their adventurer cousins because they don’t have this abililty. Just about every conditional that improves damage output for engineers requires that we lose health, play the piano, or become a lush and drink potions all day. It’s highly unfair. I’m surprised people aren’t more outraged about this honestly. I know I am and I hate pvp and try to avoid it at all costs.

They have some very very serious reworks to do on the placement of trait bonuses, the abilities that improve damage (because there are some that help the thief and ranger that we don’t have the equivolent of at ALL). I’ve posted a thread about the problems in the suggestions forum.

Here it is I go thru and make a comparison of the minor traits as well as those seem to give a very large advantage. Under the dps lines we have defensive abilities instead of the large % to damage bonuses the other two adventurer classes use.

I actually run a GC Engineer in WvW.

I got 2k armor and 18k HP. But I don’t die in 3 sec to people. I doubt you should have any issue with your massive HP and good armor.

You gotta watch out for culling, as thief and zerg abuse it.

I don’t use it in sPvP, but in WvW I use the Elixir S at 25% hp trait, since with culling you can die before even seeing the thief.

Your gear looks fine for WvW!

I think he is just exaggerated a bit because he doesn’t know better. It looks like it is 3s or less. What really occurs OP, is that sometimes rendering is an issue. If you go invisible for 3 seconds, you can often act or make 2-4 attacks before you render back into view on another players screen. Effectively doubling your invis rate and giving you free shots.

That is why you see so many thiefs in WvW. Because weak players and johnny come lately’s us this to exploit it against you, because they generally lack the skill to kill you in a battle with another profession.

Kardiamond.6952:

You gotta watch out for culling, as thief and zerg abuse it.

I don’t use it in sPvP, but in WvW I use the Elixir S at 25% hp trait, since with culling you can die before even seeing the thief.

this is how sound advice here. Self regulating defense is superb as a safety mechanism. I love to use it with cloaking device, as well.

A culled berzerker’s thief probably.
OP, I think you are okay.
And by okay I mean… there is literally nothing you could have done to survive.

Alarox.4590:

Short answer: Thieves are ridiculous.

Long answer: D/D Steal/Backstab/CnD combo is ridiculous.

What he said plus what others have said about tougness > vit in WvW. Look at guardians most of them only run with 12k or 15k hpts but their toughness makes them hard to chew through. Of course they have lots of heals too but bursting them down isn’t easy.

You could use an off hand shield to block and/or knock back and also the toolkit has a nice block. That along with your elixir S can keep you alive until their first round of cool downs are spent. Although you may not have time to react without enough toughness.

TANKCAT confusion builds own thieves but struggles with tanky builds at least while I’m controlling the engi.

SilverWF.4789:

In the good raid (such as RG melee-raid, obviously) your incoming conditions will be permacleanced.

If honestly, I think there is no place to an Engineer in the good raids…

Running roughly close to 1600 tough and roughly 1600 vit here.
Check my signature.
We don’t run bullkitten specs (i.e. not vit or no toughness).
Thanks for elaborating to me who is running what in my warband and what professions should (n’t) be in there… duh. Still love you of course.
Now back to the topic please.

you guys realized hes in a BL spawn point so his vitality/hp is increased right? hes probably around 17k-18k

honestly that was just a thief, they will do that. next time just use elixir s as soon as u see your hp spike, also try not to be alone in wvw

You’re stats are fine. Even if you’d somehow found another 20% damage mitigation (440 more toughness) those attacks would have done more damage than you had hp. You must have gotten in a heal so you would have still been standing but to find that much toughness you would have had to gimp your power and/or condition damage. I don’t know that, “I lived for 6 seconds which is better than 3”, is really what you are after.

A thief hates missing and having their movement denied. You’d think we were designed as thief killers with things like smoke bomb, glue bomb, glue shot, supply crate, static shot (and a blowtorch followup) all the while bleeding from auto-shot. Hopefully the fixes to culling and client display will help.

Mister Mustard.7203:

The balance between the defensive stats is key against that sort of spike damage.

The ‘main’ combo was 26,748 damage, followed up with 5519 from a Heartseeker and a couple auto attacks, for a good time of 32,267 damage. That’s a LOT of vitality; you need some toughness along with the hit points to give yourself a chance. Well-timed dodge rolls are your best mitigation though!

MikeT.9428:

You could use an off hand shield to block and/or knock back and also the toolkit has a nice block. That along with your elixir S can keep you alive until their first round of cool downs are spent. Although you may not have time to react without enough toughness.

This and pistol#3 and concussive bomb(bomb kit#3) can destroy thief with a good cond damage from rabid gear, and if he reset going in stealth save your smoke bomb for when he will return to attack, also remember retaliation from elixir B.

Sororita.3465:

you guys realized hes in a BL spawn point so his vitality/hp is increased right? hes probably around 17k-18k

Wrong. You don’t get buffs from being in a spawn. You get buffs by being next to the NPC commander, which isn’t even on that map in the screen-shot.

coglin.1496:

I think he is just exaggerated a bit because he doesn’t know better. It looks like it is 3s or less. What really occurs OP, is that sometimes rendering is an issue. If you go invisible for 3 seconds, you can often act or make 2-4 attacks before you render back into view on another players screen. Effectively doubling your invis rate and giving you free shots.

That is why you see so many thiefs in WvW. Because weak players and johnny come lately’s us this to exploit it against you, because they generally lack the skill to kill you in a battle with another profession.

Kardiamond.6952:

You gotta watch out for culling, as thief and zerg abuse it.

I don’t use it in sPvP, but in WvW I use the Elixir S at 25% hp trait, since with culling you can die before even seeing the thief.

this is how sound advice here. Self regulating defense is superb as a safety mechanism. I love to use it with cloaking device, as well.

^This.
If I see a thief and know hes coming I can almost always avoid their burst because you always know what they are gonna do.
Stealth and within 1-2 sec (depending on how far away they were) they will step to you and hit their macro key.
So if you see a Thief and he starts running toward you be ready to use a block or dodge.

The problem is when you don’t see the Thief at all which is nothing more than getting ganked, the same way you got ganked by rogues. If you are not a Tank with high armor then you are a prime target for gank thieves. The rendering issue isnt as helpful to gank thieves as it is to P/P permastealth thieves, gank thieves blow all their DPS within a few seconds so if you can avoid it they are easy pickings, or at least they would be if they didn’t have such easy escapes. Thieves are just an easy button class for ppl who want to try and rack up kills. If you can learn to avoid their cheapness they will have nothing left but to run away.

SRD trait is almost a WvW must. It will save you from gank thieves and WHEN you get tired of using the half decent supply crate you can mess around with Elixir X and try and knock ppl off cliffs. The best part is if you have SRD then you can actually escape after everyone focuses your twister self because it will cancel the form and allow you to run.

cant really fight back unless you have 30k you wont last 2 seconds. its as easy as drake venom-steal-backstab-auto attack or heart seeker.

dunno bout you but my auto attacks land for up to 2600 damage. so lets sum up all damage i do : steal=7k crit / backstab= 8-11k crit / auto attack= 1900-2500 crit / heart seek= 5-8k . and thats the raw damage i ve pulled without sigils and what not i usually use the Executioner trait cuz i dont rely purely on backstab 20% damage+15% from sigil sounds nice.

You guys are cracking me up. He obviously has SOME kind of vitality buff. That’s extremely high HP for an engineer and based on his gear he should have around 19k.

Charles.9480:

You guys are cracking me up. He obviously has SOME kind of vitality buff. That’s extremely high HP for an engineer and based on his gear he should have around 19k.

I have prec/tough/cond armor….. my weapons are power/vit/cond and my jewelry is the same. I have power vit cond orbs in all my armor and I had 20 spec points into the vitality/alchemy line. I had no buffs, the food buff was a boost to my precision. yes my tough is low.

I hate to admit it but that tankCat spec i see on the forums might be my only option. Shame really, i do love dual pistols and condition pressure build.

Anyone here try a full set of cleric armor/weapons/trinkets and spec defensive/support on these forums and have any success?

Charles.9480:

You guys are cracking me up. He obviously has SOME kind of vitality buff. That’s extremely high HP for an engineer and based on his gear he should have around 19k.

Neeks.2760:

So I logged into gw2 on my engi today after a few months break and my first venture back out to wvw … 3 seconds later i was dead. Am i missing something or new gear that i am un aware off ? My engi is in full TA rabid exotics and rampager jewelry….

Nah, he could look at 22532 hp:

Rabid and rampager gear: 0 vitality
6x runes with +vit = 165 vit
Skilled into Alchemy = 300 vit
Lets say: 2x pistols with +90 vit each = 180 vit
= 645 vit = 6450 hp

Base HP = 15082 hp
+ 6450 hp
= 21532 hp

Vitality consumable (+100 vit) =
22532 hp

Nevertheless the 24k could be a bug.
I, personally, often had kind of weird HP displays after zoning/changing traits/swapping things around/being buffed/loosing buffs.

This being said, we could also be looking at a massive Power of the Mists buff of course. That would bring him closer to/above the 24k we are seeing in the screenshot.

Edit: Haha, seconds too late. ^^

Again then (corrected stats):
Rabid and rampager gear: 0 vitality
Carrion accessoires: 240 vit
6x Chrysocola orbs: 84 vit
20 Skilled into Alchemy = 200 vit
2x pistols with +64 vit each = 128 vit
= 652 vit = 6520 hp

Base HP = 15082 hp
+ 6520 hp
= 21602 hp

Vitality consumable (+100 vit) =
22602 hp

Difference to actually visible hp is either a bug or Power of the Mists buff.

He must’ve used cryptonite!!!

Pannonica.5378:

Again then (corrected stats):
Rabid and rampager gear: 0 vitality
Carrion accessoires: 240 vit
6x Chrysocola orbs: 84 vit
20 Skilled into Alchemy = 200 vit
2x pistols with +64 vit each = 128 vit
= 652 vit = 6520 hp

Base HP = 15082 hp
+ 6520 hp
= 21602 hp

Vitality consumable (+100 vit) =
22602 hp

Difference to actually visible hp is either a bug or Power of the Mists buff.

Thats about right, but i use the orbs also in my weapons. I am too cheap to spend on sigils or runes !!!

Your toughness is fine. Your stats are fine. If your goal is to kill thieves then go TankCat but otherwise just accept that there’s a class out there that can kill about ANY other in less than 10 seconds if a very strong defense isn’t made (and executed correctly). If that bothers you go roll a thief. (I tried. I found it terribly boring.)

Nothing wrong with your build.

Actually if you look at the other forums threads here you can see screen shots of tanky warriors dying to thieves in less than 3 seconds as well. It seems that 25000-28000 hit points and 2500-3500 armor+thoughness isn’t enough. A lucky critical hit with backstab can still hit 13000. Ouch!

It doesn’t make sense to make your character so tanky that it can sustain 13k hits. Just accept the fact that while the game is as it is, thieves can insta gib anything if your defense skills are in cooldown or you got surprised. The good news is: thieves like that usually die easily. I have killed several thieves on my own. I usually happens so that their skills are in cooldown and I sort of surprise them. In WvWvW I saw a thief attacking somebody in my team from a distance. I wasn’t in any party, just free roaming. I quickly charged in and dropped supply crate over that thief and then I used every grenade skill I had. The thief became stealthed and teleported away. Even during downed state thieves can do that. So I kept spamming AoE randomly all over the neighborhood. End result: I saw two dead thief corpses. More badges of honor for me.

In my honest opinion the burst damage is out of control. No profession should be able to do over 3k damage per hit in pvp or WvWvW, unless it is a big siege weapon. But the biggest reason why people complain about thieves that they can so easily get away or do it from surprise, because of stealth. Stealth is a broken game mechanism, but I haven’t seen any of the developers comment about it. ANY game mechanism which has no counter is broken and should be either immediately removed from the game or every profession should get a viable counter against. So far no profession has “see invisible” or “deny stealth” skill. Teleportation is another broken game mechanism, especially in WvWvW. There is no anti-teleportation skill / mechanism. I simply cannot understand why experienced game developers implemented stealth and teleportation into GW2, because we have already seen from other MMORPGs that these cause big problems. In most other MMORPGs characters cannot enter stealth in combat and any damage during stealth, bleeding etc. makes a stealthed person visible. Also movement during stealth is limited (in GW2 thieves can move 50% faster during stealth using a trait). It is a common belief among the player base that Anet developers are themselves playing thieves and having their “fun”.

Deniara / Ayna

Deniara, yep i read the other class forums and realized it was not a engineer issue, more so the theifs spec’d in the CD/backstab glass canon mode are insane dps machines.

I am in the process of retooling my engi to the tankCat spec with a small variation (bomb heal infusion) and then go back out to wvw Looks like a fun spec , but i think i will miss my condition dps. Oh well.