Guild Wars 2

After reading the feed back in dueling Nerf/Buff Thieves threads in the WvW board, and MUCH trolling, I think we should have an outline of how best to deal with roaming thieves in WvW as Engineers.

A good deal of my build was influenced by repeated ganking by glass thieves that thought it would be funny to take out an unsuspecting Engie running supply. Luckily, this has made my build MUCH more useful and survivable in PvE, dungeons and I even run a variation in sPvP because I like it so much.

I am currently shifting it around a bit for HGH (I know… I know >.<) but I will share the original build.

I used to run P/S, mostly for the shield traits, grenade kit, tool kit, and elixir S with Supply Crate for my elite. Grenades for ranged damage/Vuln, Tool kit for pulls/escapes, and Elixir S for the “oh crap” button.

For traits, I would go:
Incendiary powder, Cool down reduction for bomb/nades, and Grenadier
No Firearms
Protection in Toughness trait line
Auto Elixir S, 409 in Alchemy/Vitality
and Speedy kits for perma-swiftness.

For gear, I went half soldiers stats, half berserker, and trinkets, I did Knights with Berserker Jewels. With Sup Runes of the Earth for the protection sync.

With Elixir H as heal for the extra protection possibility, this would give decent protection up time, 2 full blocks, 2 shield bubbles, invul, freeze, 2 good sources of poison, 2 good sources of confusion, a pull, an AoE push back, a blind, 2 stuns and either stability or stealth (usually the opposite of what you needed… but that’s RNG for ya).

My hypothetical play style:

When you see a thief come out of stealth, chances are good that either your Runes of Earth or your “Protective Shield” trait will trigger, giving you a few seconds of protection preventing insta-down. If you are in a kit, you need to get to a shield quickly, and the stun shield of p/s #5 is very useful in this situation.

If you want to down him/her, not just run them off, then here you need to unload the poison dart volley or drop supply crate to prolong/re-apply stun (stun is a condition that is affected by duration stacking, such as your explosives trait line, givers weapons and sigils like Paralyzation). Assume they have at least one stun break, and will attempt to break combat, stealth and heal. The poison will reduce their heal efficacy by 33%, unless they use up a cleanse… and that is excellent.

Prepare yourself by swapping to tool kit, stay near your net turret (it will see the thief before you do when they de-stealth), use your elixir H, or toss the tool belt version, and/or run around a bit dropping box of nails and picking up bandages.

The Elixir H/toss EH will give you a 66% chance of a protection proc, which is very useful, the nails will reduces the thieves movement, and the net turret will immobilize. When they appear, immediately use the #5 magnet pull, EVEN IF THEY ARE IN MELEE RANGE. It is an interrupt, and will stop their burst and allow you to PRY BAR them in the face. They will have to use another cleanse for the confusion, or just fight through it, so now you either shield, or consider that they might swap to pistols and go to range so dodge around a little, and Freeze grenade the ground at your feet, and then poison grenade around the net turret as well.

When they show up again, frustrated with the lack of a kill, start planning your kill combo. For this, you will start in p/s, and prepare yourself for the shadowstep/backstab by putting your finger on #4 and when you see the first sign of damage, double pop for interrupt, static shot and then poison dart volley again. PDV is a channeled skill, and you MUST NOT INTERRUPT YOURSELF while firing, as it will SHOW YOU WHERE THE THIEF IS GOING. That’s right, it may not hit, but it tracks stealth targets. Then you start with the grenades, Freeze, Poison, Shrapnel, and when you see them again, Barrage, or pull and pry bar.

It sounds like a solid build for small scale and solo roaming. And should be able to counter most thieves. I would however swap Elixir S for Elixir R. 4 dodges in a row + stun break is great. Toss Elixir R is a true-life saver if you get gibbed by a duo or trio thief team. At least in EU tier #1 many enemy thieves run in teams of 2 or 3.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elixir_R
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_R

I would also get rid of self-regulating defenses, as that auto-elixir S tends to be a pro-longed death wish in big fights (you cannot use any skills during that 3 seconds). Take fast-acting elixirs since you will be using multiple elixirs. More healing, stun break and two extra dodges every 36 s.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fast-Acting_Elixirs

With those small changes it sounds like a really good build. I personally prefer something different..My current build is actually less effective against thieves, but it has more group utility.

More ======

Notes:

The Gear Shield blocks for its duration, even if you use other skills.

If you see shadow refuge (the AoE stealth with the stone house over it), your freeze grenades almost completely fill the field, as does your barrage… use them liberally. And if you have Supply Crate available, it ALSO fits neatly into the radius.

Set your skill key binds in places that make them fast for swapping, I use Shift +1-5 for heals and utilities. Make sure your dodge-roll is on a key that is EASY to get to, I use one of my side mouse buttons, because I can have my thumb on it loosely, and then trigger it when moving the mouse easily without having to find it on the keyboard.

Don’t chase thieves, but focus on an area of combat that you can control with your supply crate, box of nails, and AoE damage/conditions. Make them come to your in an area you have control of. On stuns and roots, apply conditions first, and then whatever burst you have available to you.

Please feel free to add anything you like for thief neutralization, as Engineers we have options other professions don’t, so let’s share our tactics.

Deniara Devious.3948:

It sounds like a solid build for small scale and solo roaming. And should be able to counter most thieves. I would however swap Elixir S for Elixir R. 4 dodges in a row + stun break is great. Toss Elixir R is a true-life saver if you get gibbed by a duo or trio thief team. At least in EU tier #1 many enemy thieves run in teams of 2 or 3.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elixir_R
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_R

I would also get rid of self-regulating defenses, as that auto-elixir S tends to be a pro-longed death wish in big fights (you cannot use any skills during that 3 seconds). Take fast-acting elixirs since you will be using multiple elixirs. More healing, stun break and two extra dodges every 36 s.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fast-Acting_Elixirs

With those small changes it sounds like a really good build. I personally prefer something different..My current build is actually less effective against thieves, but it has more group utility.

Indeed, the Elixir S Nerf has had a profound effect on my build, and I have gone from a primarily defensive build, to an Elixir/HGH build for more direct and conditional damage. I will re-trait for dungeons into a more support/defense spec, using the new heal turret (although I am still not a fan), Grenades, and Elixir Gun or FT, with Elixir R as my final utility.

You are completely right about the trait changes, Fast-acting elixirs is clutch for HGH, and easily gets me to 25 stacks of might in combat without sacrificing 4 of my runes of earth. The sync with Elixir H is also quite good for the protection triggers. For my 9 utility, I mostly run R for the extra dodges, but I also slot in U in groups for the reflect field and solo-timewarp.

I am using B as my second util, with auto-trigger in grenade kit since I don’t use auto attack in that kit anyway. I know B isn’t as useful as other things I could slot there, but having the auto boons on the shorter cool downs is nice, since I have so much extra boon duration anyway (65% with food).

I am not convinced this is the “One” build for me yet, and I don’t like HGH in general, since it locks me into a much more limited set of utilities and kits, but watching my grenade barrage hit for 1900-2k on crits (usually 3 of 7) is just effing amazing.

net turret > than most thieves. Combine that with bombs or nades and it’s almost a done deal.

lunyboy.8672:

More ======

Notes:

The Gear Shield blocks for its duration, even if you use other skills.

If you see shadow refuge (the AoE stealth with the stone house over it), your freeze grenades almost completely fill the field, as does your barrage… use them liberally. And if you have Supply Crate available, it ALSO fits neatly into the radius.

Set your skill key binds in places that make them fast for swapping, I use Shift +1-5 for heals and utilities. Make sure your dodge-roll is on a key that is EASY to get to, I use one of my side mouse buttons, because I can have my thumb on it loosely, and then trigger it when moving the mouse easily without having to find it on the keyboard.

Don’t chase thieves, but focus on an area of combat that you can control with your supply crate, box of nails, and AoE damage/conditions. Make them come to your in an area you have control of. On stuns and roots, apply conditions first, and then whatever burst you have available to you.

Please feel free to add anything you like for thief neutralization, as Engineers we have options other professions don’t, so let’s share our tactics.

If you see shadow refuge its best to run in the centre (assuming ofc you have a shield offhand) and use skill 4 than hit 4 again. It’ll push the thief out and makes an easy kill. I wouldn’t recommend dropping supply crate or freeze nades in case they run a SA build which will simply allow them to walk out. Supply crate will do nothing in general except maybe stun the thief.

If you have good defense and play more defensively most thieves are actually pretty easy as an engie. However don’t make it easy on them, apply pressure and keep a cool head.