Guild Wars 2

why Nerf Kit Refinement?

Gadgets have long cool downs
Turrets AI is unreliable
All that’s left is elixir and kits

so why nerf kits? LOTS of players made their builds around this trait… which was not OP in comparison to what an Elementalist can trait to do when switching atonement and it was greatly balance by the internal cool downs.. so why ?

asides from Granade kit, the effects of this trait are not over-powered by any means. but it is one of the best traits just for the fact that it’s RELIABLE. if you needed a short snare go to tool kit, condition removal and small healing elixir gun or condition removal and small damage flame thrower… if you felt the need to balance why not just make it a major or grand-master ?.

Now, if we want to make this trait “reliable” we’re gonna have to limit the times we go into a kit, or limit the number of kits we’re using in our builds otherwise it’s just gonna be all random, and as engineer, do we really need any more randomness ?

I have watched live shows, and when devs talk about balancing a class they said that instead of breaking a skill or trait, you try to boost other builds in Oder to create more balance, so what’s the point of making one of the few engineer’s build less effective or fun to play ? an answer from a dev would be greatly appreciated to just me, but the entire engineer population

thank you.

Oddly enough, I’m not entirely what the nerf entailed. I’m testing different kits for interaction, though.

So far, what I’ve discovered: I can switch from Grenade Kit to Flamethrower, get the Barrage and then the Blast, but the Blast seems to cut off the other Refinement. Same with Elixir Gun’s Super Elixir field – I can switch to Elixir Gun while Barrage’s animation is going, and the Super Elixir happens. Go the other way, and…nope. Likewise with Bomb Kit.

Tool Kit’s caltrops just magically fade into existence apropos of nothing when the kit is equipped, but it does not interfere with other kits, just as Grenade Kit doesn’t seem to.

So, either this adjustment was stranger than it seemed, or it simply doesn’t work properly.

In either case, you can’t properly say an answer about the Kit Refinement change would be appreciated by the ‘entire Engineer population,’ as I honestly don’t really think it’s a problem. It was probably a reaction to the 100nades build and other builds that utilize it for borderline overpowered things.

Anymras.5729:

Oddly enough, I’m not entirely what the nerf entailed. I’m testing different kits for interaction, though.

So far, what I’ve discovered: I can switch from Grenade Kit to Flamethrower, get the Barrage and then the Blast, but the Blast seems to cut off the other Refinement. Same with Elixir Gun’s Super Elixir field – I can switch to Elixir Gun while Barrage’s animation is going, and the Super Elixir happens. Go the other way, and…nope. Likewise with Bomb Kit.

Tool Kit’s caltrops just magically fade into existence apropos of nothing when the kit is equipped, but it does not interfere with other kits, just as Grenade Kit doesn’t seem to.

So, either this adjustment was stranger than it seemed, or it simply doesn’t work properly.

In either case, you can’t properly say an answer about the Kit Refinement change would be appreciated by the ‘entire Engineer population,’ as I honestly don’t really think it’s a problem. It was probably a reaction to the 100nades build and other builds that utilize it for borderline overpowered things.

yea, currently the trait is broken and doesn’t fully act as intended

Kit Refinement: This trait now has an internal cooldown of 10 seconds globally for Flamethrower, Elixir Gun, Grenade Kit, and Tool Kit.

Well if the individual kit refinement ICD is traded out for global ICD, that means perma light field, grenade barrage every 10 seconds(hooray?), I’d be cool with that, it does kill some versatility yet again though.

google.3709:

there will be a patch in the next 60 mins where the nerf should take place as intended, thats when we will see a lot of people rage :\

no lord aargadon, it means no perma light field. 1st thing i tested. it is also very buggy, go see the post about it

Out of curiousity, is there a 1-shot kill skill combo that make’s use of the elementalist’s attunement swapping trait?

Independent of that, it was easy to anticipate a nerf to 100-nades, which is really what people are mad about, don’t kid yourselves. Would any nerf not produce the outrage we are seeing on the forums? I contend YES!

I agree. I think we need some explanation. It was enough of a task to keep track of when Elixer Gun kit refinement’s cool down would be done, but now I feel like I can’t even use the Grenade Kit or Tool Kit kit refinement abilities in fear that sometime in the next five seconds I’ll need that condition removal or minor heal. If anything, this patch update encourages those of us who rely on kit refinement/elixer gun for survivability to never use any other kits, which kind of defeats the purpose of traiting into it.

Let’s be clear. This is not a nerf to 100-nades. This hurts engineers who value diversity, and I would like at least some sort of explanation from ArenaNet as to why they felt the need to nerf Kit Refinement.

@Eviator.9746

Dude we are complaining about not being able to use more than one kit in our skillbar, who actually cares about 100-nades if you can’t play anything else?

Now about kit refinement, instead of being a nice add to every build with a bit of utility using at least 2 kits (which was a must to say the least) it now ends up being a forced trait to use just the EG and yea maybe still grenades… too bad EG alone won’t damage a thing any longer without some serious burning, even all the other traits related to EG affect flamethrower as well, with the only exeption of Juggernaut.

Anyway do you really think 100-nades isn’t viable any longer? it requires some more positioning but it’s still viable via net-shot.

Eviator.9746:

Out of curiousity, is there a 1-shot kill skill combo that make’s use of the elementalist’s attunement swapping trait?

Independent of that, it was easy to anticipate a nerf to 100-nades, which is really what people are mad about, don’t kid yourselves. Would any nerf not produce the outrage we are seeing on the forums? I contend YES!

You know what’s funny? The toolkit AND the grenade kit do not trigger that universal cooldown. Sooo if thats what they were trying to stop….they did the opposite.

Gaia.2651:

I agree. I think we need some explanation. It was enough of a task to keep track of when Elixer Gun kit refinement’s cool down would be done, but now I feel like I can’t even use the Grenade Kit or Tool Kit kit refinement abilities in fear that sometime in the next five seconds I’ll need that condition removal or minor heal. If anything, this patch update encourages those of us who rely on kit refinement/elixer gun for survivability to never use any other kits, which kind of defeats the purpose of traiting into it.

Let’s be clear. This is not a nerf to 100-nades. This hurts engineers who value diversity, and I would like at least some sort of explanation from ArenaNet as to why they felt the need to nerf Kit Refinement.

Completely agree…what are they expecting from us? Everytime they nerf us, we still try to make out what we have left, what happen to us being “highly versatile” they mention in their engineer’s philosophy? I had the impression that multi-kit builds was the sort of builds that fit in line with engineers philosophy.

Rfreak.6591:

@Eviator.9746

Dude we are complaining about not being able to use more than one kit in our skillbar, who actually cares about 100-nades if you can’t play anything else?

My understanding of the nerf is evolving, so I appreciate the information. Obviously this isn’t a nerf of multi-kit builds, it’s a nerf of multi-kit builds that make tactical use of kit refinement.

Other than magnet + grenade barrage, what other combos were there that made use of the lack of a global cooldown on kit refinement? Two reason for this question: 1) if there are other very powerful combos, it would explain the general nerf to the trait, 2) if there are not other good combos, why is there such an uproar?

@Eviator.9746

The most useful kit refinement skill is Elixir gun’s, it is simply another Super Elixir (#5), and I’d like to remind you it is an AoE heal over time which removes condition upon impact too (as a light field, it removes conditions in many other ways), and considering you’d be able to activate the actual #5 you can heal for twice the amount in a short time, you and your whole team that is.
It lasts 10s on a 20s CD, this means you can keep it indefinitely with the usage of both the refinement and the skill.

Flamethrower’s kit refinement is a weaker version of the elementalist’s cleansing flame, it burns for 3s (AoE) and heals 1 condition on you and your party members in range. (10s CD)

Eviator.9746:

Rfreak.6591:

@Eviator.9746

Dude we are complaining about not being able to use more than one kit in our skillbar, who actually cares about 100-nades if you can’t play anything else?

My understanding of the nerf is evolving, so I appreciate the information.

Other than magnet + grenade barrage, what other combos were there that made use of the lack of a global cooldown on kit refinement? Two reason for this question: 1) if there are other very powerful combos, it would explain the general nerf to the trait, 2) if there are not other good combos, why is there such an uproar?

EG and FT KR = double instant condition removal
EG KR+ superelixir and healing mist = healing team combo
double grenade barrage.
Toolkit KR= box of nails (cripple)
Bombkit =Bomb

Effectively you can see a lot of combos can be made or even the KR skills can help in certain situations. But the thing is, kit refinement already has already individual cooldown so you cannot spam kit refinement skills as you like. The global cooldown on top is like anet saying to us “you can’t be that versatile”….i don’t understand how we can’t but eles can.
kit refinement is not op before but now it’s just unresonable that we need to have a timer to use this.

Eviator.9746:

Independent of that, it was easy to anticipate a nerf to 100-nades, which is really what people are mad about, don’t kid yourselves. Would any nerf not produce the outrage we are seeing on the forums? I contend YES!

People would anticipate a nerf to 100nades, because engys seem to get a lot of nerfs, on an actual logical basis though the nerf is without merit, because it is not the strongest burst in the game, nor the easiest to apply, nor the hardest to avoid and the build (indeed class) possesses less disengage than thieves / eles / mesmers, nor is it the only build affected, any multi kit build is (when played by anyone who isn’t terrible and actually switches kits more than once every 10 secs).

In gameplay terms it is simply terrible, if you are playing 2 /3 kits you are already having to keep in mind the various cooldowns for kit refinement, having an extra global cooldown is just dire gameplay / QoL, if they wanted to stop poeple keeping up a perma light field with the elixir gun then should of just increased the cooldown on that.

The skills on kit refinement already get wasted at times, because you need the kits for other reasons – e.g – you need the block on the gear shield, you need the knockback on the FT, you need the poision/chill on grenades.

The nerf is absolutely ridiculous, they simply do not have a clue, but then as this is yet another change that is bugged, that is apparent to anyone, hint Anet – public test server.