Guild Wars 2

How exactly do you justify rolling an engineer without elixir r in your kit. every time I pug and there’s another engineer in my dungeon group, he neglects to have elixir r. in fact, I’m the only engineer i’ve actually seen use the throw skill. it’s a stun break, it refills your endurance! Its AN AOE REVIVE THATS A NORMAL UTILITY SKILL. really. honestly. it was so rediculously overpowered they had to nerf it from 85 seconds to 120 seconds and it’s STILL rediculously amazing.
also, I cant count the times that i’ve used it, had the ally survive downed tanking mobs long enough for me to get over to him and frenzyrez his face. (another reason you should ALSO have elixir u, quickness effects ressurection time)

tl:dr. wtf engis, y u no elixir r

Most of the time when I would use it it would be in fractals, but to me elixir s and a decent healing power do the job just as good. I have found a few times in fractals where I needed to rev someone in a dangerous spot but throw r was on its long cooldown. Elixir S on the other hand cooldowns pretty fast, especially with the 20% reduction trait available.

You don’t have to use Elixir R to succeed every part of a dungeon. You can roam dungeons with whatever setup you want.

I tend to run EG, an extra elixir (usually B ), and some random item based on what utility I need. A lot of times I’ll toss either FT for an extra weapon (with a blind, a pushback, a cone-based AOE, and a combo field), Net Turret (for extra CCs) or the Goggles (For its stun-break, fury, and the VERY helpful burst ability of 10-stacks of vulnerability).

Elixir R IS helpful. It’s a GREAT defense item as it breaks stun and give endurance back (for 2 dodges). The toolbelt skill is the most stable of all the elixirs, and helpful in that it removes condition and give 20% revive health with each pulse.

But . . . I like my other utility slots to be more versatile. I keep myself (edit: AND my allies!) alive through my constant mini-heals with EG and other attacks.

Edit:: I agree with Raven’s post below me. Don’t try to pigeonhole folks into using/keeping a single skill slot. That’s like telling the guy who likes to use EG or FT (me and other engies) that he shouldn’t be using them because he’s not getting the most damage with them.

the engineer has lots of tools that make reviving easy without using elixer r.
how many knockbacks? aoe blinds? stealth? revive+block or invuln at the same time?

how ridiculously easy is PvE? ridiculously easy.

how exactly do you justify rolling an engineer and then berating the rest of the community for not playing the way you do?

I never dungeon without R. It’s so amazing that I don’t even consider switching it out for anything. I even revived THREE downed players at the same time while they were in an AOE damage field. Totally saved the fight. You’re right though – I have yet to see the R used by another engineer.

With my guild mates i don’t need R, sometimes i use it with PUGs group, depends on the situation. Just to clarify R isn’t an AOE istant revive but just a pulse area healing for downed players, will help for sure but not always.

i dont need Elixir R as long i got elixir gun with kit refinement enabling me to use 2 Super elixirs at a time the heal is terrible sure but covering that much area enables me and the party to pretty much shrug off All conditions wich means if they died its because they chose not to heal needless to say i have 1 or 2 extra regens as well.

I run Elixir R, Elixir Gun, and Grenades. As time goes by my guild needs fewer and fewer revives, so I occassionally swap it out on some fights for something else. There, justified.

I’ve been watching a lot of Extra Credits, and it was referring to something called “First Order Optimal Strategy”, or FOO Strategy, which is what developers use to give players a crutch early on in a game or give inexperienced players an advantage against other players who have been playing a game a lot longer. (see noob tube for most FPS PvP games)

Compounding on what Eviator said, Elixir R is like a sort FOO Strategy. It gives people who aren’t as experienced in a dungeon the ability to survive. As teammates survive dungeons better and develop better defensive strategies, Elixir R is dropped in favor of more damage-dealing or support to help your fellow player do more damage.

I use elixir R all the time. It’s really nice both for turboresing or remote resing.
And it’s not only about toolbelt skill. Elixir R itself is pretty amazing. If you’ll ever do enough damage with your “support” engineers to aggro a mob you’ll know how much you need to dodge.

I actually saw another engi in fractals only once (!) and he was using R too. So I dunno what are you talking about.

I admit it’s different playstyles, and I’ll retract my argument that it’s a basic strategy and a crutch.

Hmm let’s see. because people don’t want us to be support they want us to be all DPS and you can’t do that with Elixir R sorry. not enough slots.

And that’s if they haven’t already denied us entry simply because we’re too nerfed to do anything anymore.

Elixir R gives 2 stacks of might and helps surviving to countinue DPSing. Sound like a good deal to me.
Not for every build, can’t argue with that, but a solid skill anyways.

I don’t think that giving it 2 stacks of might is good. Besides, if you trait into HGH, you already get 2 stacks of might when you use it (or 1 stack of might when you toss it).

I agree with Tigirius and I think he gets what I was thinking more or less.

Elixir R is a good elixir (hell, it’s our most stable elixir!), but it’s just not offensive or CC enough to cause any real effect on raising DPS or player strategy.

To be honest, one of the main reasons I don’t use it is because of other classes. I really annoys me that I throw it down on an ele, thief, or mes because they ALWAYS use their escape skill and end up outside of the healing radius. I used to tell my party ahead of time not to do so, but now I don’t bother. Another is when I clearly throw my potion down and a warrior just slam a war banner down, completely wasting my effort.

I’m not saying it’s bad, I just rather use something I find more effective, personally.

i love it, my guildies love it

as a dps build the worst thing you can do is stop dpsing. tossing out a rez pot and returning to keeping my grenades’ vuln stacks (and their damage) on the boss is one of the better things i can do w/ that utility slot.

and in the event i draw aggro… 4 dodges lol.

i find its pretty much as good in a good party as a bad one. but in a good party people generally dont go down while its on cd.

PWNcakesAndROFLs.8263:

To be honest, one of the main reasons I don’t use it is because of other classes. I really annoys me that I throw it down on an ele, thief, or mes because they ALWAYS use their escape skill and end up outside of the healing radius.

It annoyed me when they do that do. Earlier today I saw some ele panic, go to mist form and just stand there..not getting healed….not doing anything just wasting time when she could have been reviving ugh. But either way unless a warrior/guardian/engie downs I just wait for them to move/warp/whatever before I even attempt to throw it.

Well if you’re DPS-oriented PvE engi, unless you’re SD, you’re going to have HGH. That’s how engi works currently. And that means you use elixirs. Elixir R don’t have cast time, refills endurance, breaks stuns and has turboresing bonus.

It’s a pretty solid choice in my opinion. Yeah not a “must have” like OP said but not something to be ignored either.

I’m so used to it right now (to utility elixir, not toolbelt skill) that I’m feeling kinda crippled without it.

What are other options for HGH engi? U – has a long cooldown and kinda “meh” effect. S – again long CD and you can just dodge two more times (I still use it in some cases though). C – is more for PvP, there’s no real condition spam in dungeons and you have 409 anyways.

Herosandwich.6203:

How exactly do you justify rolling an engineer without elixir r in your kit. every time I pug and there’s another engineer in my dungeon group, he neglects to have elixir r. in fact, I’m the only engineer i’ve actually seen use the throw skill. it’s a stun break, it refills your endurance! Its AN AOE REVIVE THATS A NORMAL UTILITY SKILL. really. honestly. it was so rediculously overpowered they had to nerf it from 85 seconds to 120 seconds and it’s STILL rediculously amazing.
also, I cant count the times that i’ve used it, had the ally survive downed tanking mobs long enough for me to get over to him and frenzyrez his face. (another reason you should ALSO have elixir u, quickness effects ressurection time)

tl:dr. wtf engis, y u no elixir r

it does sound good, unfortunately i’m not a support engi and don’t care about such things

Personally I use U over R in both PvP and PvE, helps ressing, increase DPS, way shorter cooldown. Elixir R was exceptional in PvP before things changed, it’s not so good anymore.

Isslair: You’re mixing the U and R elixir

Once I start playing pve I will most likely use it. Bt as of now I find elixir s to serve me tons more in pvp.

Elixir S is a far better revive utility than R imo. Sure if 2 or more people got downed conveniently next to one another, R might be the better choice. But the fights that you need revive utility, R doesn’t really help that much. It won’t get a guy up who’s trapped in an AOE or taking damage. Its basically only good for situations where the downed dude is completely safe, you just don’t feel like running over to him. S allows you to run into an AOE field and get the guy up before he dies.

The only reason to use R is because of the endurance refill, the revive thing is just a little bonus.

This is my experience with fractals, where getting a downed player up is a huge priority.

You don’t need to use R only for ranged res. You can run to a downed player, drop R and then res. This is turboresing, you can bring people up in less than 1 sec that way. Really usefull for hose situations when someone is downed inside AOE or group of mobs.

dypfryst.5132:

Isslair: You’re mixing the U and R elixir

No. I’m not. R has 40 seconds CD (even less with traits), U has 60.
And really, that 5 seconds of quickness is like 5 more #1 attacks. With a ~50 seconds cooldown. In a pure theorycrafting environment – yes this is DPS increase. But in reality dodging and surviving is far more important.

I never get to use Elixir R for myself. Always wasted on the Brazilian Banner Warrior.

• sigh*

Sometimes I run without it, then my whole team is dead but I got extra dps in that last utility slot.

Elixir R never leaves my bar now in PUGs.

I use elixir R when people are bad and getting downed a lot.

If people aren’t getting downed too much or those that do go down can be easily rezzed manually, then you as an engineer seriously strapped for utility slots has to seriously consider taking something else.

If you aren’t a BAD engineer you have to be using a kit (not medkit) in your loadout. If you aren’t using a kit you’re probably a bad engineer because there are very few situations pure rifle/pistol is going to be better than something else.

So that effectively leaves you with 2 utility slots. Choose wisely. Personally I never do anything without elixir B because the boons are good for everything. Swiftness is very good for mobility, fury/might are good damage, and retaliation is exceptional when you have to stand your ground.

That usually leaves me with 1 slot. Choosing whether to raise some bads or take another utility becomes a real decision.

If you care so much about getting the best performance you possibly can, why are you playing Engineer?

Chickenshoes.6250:

That usually leaves me with 1 slot. Choosing whether to raise some bads or take another utility becomes a real decision.

So, what are the alternatives? It’s not like we have any op dmg utilities.

I don’t typically use Elixir R unless I’m in one of those big group events, or a dungeon (if I don’t have some other skill I’d rather make use of to prevent need for Elixir R). I’m just not an Elixir kind of guy.

Please, when you tell that you’re not using R, tell us what are you using instead and why.

I’m really curious and want to see how people are using engi currently.

R is way better then everything else as noted.

1:fire and forget rez.
You do not need to stop what you are doing. Throw it, and you can run off, ccing, attacking, killing, etc. This is obviously huge. how many times have you died while trying to res someone without it? kneeling in aoe, etc. Which leads to 2.
2. ranged rez. that guy in a deathzone? throw it. lava fonts, and other massive aoe deathtraps. R itself will often outheal damage that would kill you. and/or you might be able to throw down other stuff. an elixir U wall, or allies can reflect wall, etc.
3. super fast ressing. R + normal rez. double time it.
4. Self res. trolllllllo.
5. short cd. seriously its WAY shorter then every other similar skill.
6. pulse aoe condition removal. yeap.
7. self use is end full, and instant CC break.

R vs other elixirs.
U and where to use it. WvW and spvp. It is quite good. The throw has a high chance of being a block or reflect wall. Very powerful vs ranged professions, used at the right time. The self use, less so. however, it can be used for fast stomps. the long activate kills it. And the lack of any massive damage skill to pair with it. a warrior’s volley for example. we have what? auto attack?
Elixir B. great all around. mostly a raw damage boon machine. but retaliation makes it strong for pvp as well. Stats and boons without the raw utility of U’s walls.
Elixir C. seldom used but it has its place. Glass cannon pve. short CD’s on its use and throw, mean it will stack hgh higher. random boon on use also potentially stacks more boons.

Prepatch.
wvw, I first ran. grenades, B, and R.
Shortly before patch I started running Grenades, U and R most of the time. (after getting my mesmer to 80, playing without reflect became a chore. haha) U’s walls became fairly invaluable in large pvp.
Pve was B and R.

The only builds that I don’t run with Elixer R right now are typically builds that focus on Static Discharge in some form or fashion.

Usually when I make any other build, and I go through my options for Elixers, Elixer R makes the cut because it’s a stun breaker, primarily. The Auto-Rez is a neat trick until the other team knows you’re doing it, then they either wisen up and knock the rezzing player out of the zone or just DPS them til it wears off. Even a basic auto-attack can undo the extra damage unless it just happens to tick right at that perfect moment upon being downed.

Typically for me, it depends on my job, and if I’m playing a roaming DPS, Elixer S sometimes take it’s place because it guarantees a kill.

All in all, Elixer R fits into just about any build, where the other elixers require some synergy, and in tPvP play the team that rezzes better wins, so it almost always comes along for the ride.

R (drinking R) is definitely not a CC break unless you pair the trait Cleaning Formula 409 with it. Drinking R only removes stun.

Tossing R is an (eventual) CC break in that it will remove a condition (randomly) every second. However, it doesn’t do too well since it’s only one condition every second. The CD on this is horrible, and I wouldn’t use it for condition removal at all.

Err, have your facts straight.

R breaks any hard CC – stun, daze, knockdown. That’s what stun breaker means.

I love how people don’t even know the basic game mechanics.

I stand corrected.

Drinking R is definitely not an all CC break. You’ll recover from a stun, which is anything that prevents all skills from being used.

However, you still have to deal with the conditions that CC, such as immobilize, cripple, and chill.

yeah. Ill often say it breaks all CC. however, I do mean “with 409” when I say that.
Without 409 its “stuns”, which is, stun, daze, knockdown, fear.
(sink and float probably too. dont think I ever tried it)

And 409 is cleanse 1 condition. if you have multiple conditions on you, it may not cleanse the CC.

I used to bring elixir R all the time, but just recently have switched to elixir S. If it’s a situation in which a teammate is taking sustained damage, it’s often not possible to rush to their side without protection, and the heal from elixir R may just delay their death. With elixir S, I can—

• throw it for a chance make everyone near the downed player invisible, which often makes reviving much safer
• throw it for a chance to give everyone stability, so that I won’t be interrupted while reviving
• consume it and reach people in dangerous areas

Reviving someone is one of the most dangerous things you can do, and I think elixir S offers the most protection. Many times when someone goes down they’ll shout, “don’t rez me, it’s too dangerous,” and I’ll be able to help them anyway. This is all for an elixir build though.

As was stated earlier, these aren’t our only options. Before I switched to elixirs, I had a ton of blinds and knockbacks from my rifle, mine, flamethrower, and accelerant-packed turrets, and these also helped me revive allies in near-impossible situations.

Isslair.4908:

Chickenshoes.6250:

That usually leaves me with 1 slot. Choosing whether to raise some bads or take another utility becomes a real decision.

So, what are the alternatives? It’s not like we have any op dmg utilities.

Alternative support like net spam and cripple on a boss,