Guild Wars 2

Hammer = melee. Melee needs stability or defiance. Engi specialization has defiance.

FLAWLESS…. LOGIC…!!

guildabd.6529:

Hammer = melee. Melee needs stability or defiance. Engi specialization has defiance.

Tell that to the revanent. It may not be as melee as you are claiming Which begs the question, why make claims with no information.

coglin.1867:

guildabd.6529:

Hammer = melee. Melee needs stability or defiance. Engi specialization has defiance.

Tell that to the revanent. It may not be as melee as you are claiming Which begs the question, why make claims with no information.

because we saw them use hammer in a melee way perhaps,,,

No. Because revanent uses hammer as a ranged weapon. Which means engi hammer could as well. We don’t know yet.

coglin.1867:

No. Because revanent uses hammer as a ranged weapon. Which means engi hammer could as well. We don’t know yet.

we have seen melee skill animations for the engineer hammer. one has a nice overhead slam.

This was a datamined skill set that was leaked a couple of years ago. Since the leak is that old, it’s not reliable and things probably changed since then, but the auto-attack chain sounds exactly like what we saw in the trailer.

Engineer: Hammer:
1.
(A) Friction Swing: Swing your hammer and gather heat.
(B) Heated Swing: Swing your hammer again, gathering more heat.
(C ) Blasting Cap: Smash the super heated hammer into the ground, detonating the blasting cap on its tip.
2. Nerve Sap: Spin and leech speed, crippling nearby foes. Gain swiftness for each foe hit.
3. Sonic Uppercut: Swing your hammer, launching a sonic wave in a line that launches foes back towards you.
4. Rocket Rush: Slide forward and collide with your target, leaving behind a line of fire that burns foes. Immobilizes on impact.
5. Surgical Strike: Point and drop an explosive rocket on the target area.

I remember reading a post (I think it was on reddit), that the devs said engineer’s elite spec would have a large impact on PvP. I can’t find the post now, or the original source, but if we assume this is true, then I’m sure they could only mean the defiance bar.

And it makes sense. You would give this mechanic to a spec that needs it. Of the ones remaining, Druid and Thief are apparently ranged, and Thief is all about being sneaky, not an immovable object anyway. Warrior and Revenant are already melee oriented, and have good sources of stability.

That leaves us with Elementalist and Engineer. We don’t know much about Eles yet, but their base profession has some stability.

Engineers, on the other hand, gain a melee weapon, lose stability from Mortar, not that it mattered anyway, and are left with Toss Elixir B and 1 sec from Thumber turret’s tool belt. A defiance bar would make a lot of sense, and could be an excuse to avoid changing our class mechanic, an issue we discussed in the other thread.

Your sure it would be because of a defiance bar? I will be hopeful for one, but it seems more likely to me that they refered to all the new support it appears we will have.

Assuming that post was true, they specifically mentioned pvp. Support options generally benefit all game modes, while a defiance bar has a more pronounced impact on spvp.

Am I missing something? Was it ever confirmed that one of the elite specs would be getting Defiance? Does someone have a source for this?

yeah its somewhere around i dont really remember. either one of the blogs or one of the twitch streams. iirc it wasnt the specs preview, we (the community) knew something would get defiance before that. but it was definitely after the announcement of the expansion.

they said a class would get a break bar. and it wasnt a core spec, so its gotta be elite.

fluidmonolith.3584:

Am I missing something? Was it ever confirmed that one of the elite specs would be getting Defiance? Does someone have a source for this?

“Equipping an elite specialisation takes up one of your three specialisation slots and grants you three minor traits and nine major traits for use. How does a trait that removes a condition every time you evade an attack sound? I’m personally excited about a grandmaster trait that has the power to grant my character a defiance bar!”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en-gb/news/specializations-part-two-reward-tracks-and-elite-specializations/

RabbitUp.8294:

fluidmonolith.3584:

Am I missing something? Was it ever confirmed that one of the elite specs would be getting Defiance? Does someone have a source for this?

“Equipping an elite specialisation takes up one of your three specialisation slots and grants you three minor traits and nine major traits for use. How does a trait that removes a condition every time you evade an attack sound? I’m personally excited about a grandmaster trait that has the power to grant my character a defiance bar!”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en-gb/news/specializations-part-two-reward-tracks-and-elite-specializations/

If an elite spec gets defiance i’d bet it would be Warrior :P

Just an estimated guess based on looking back at the past 3 years of development. I feel Engineers are more pressured into a support role.

RabbitUp.8294:

fluidmonolith.3584:

Am I missing something? Was it ever confirmed that one of the elite specs would be getting Defiance? Does someone have a source for this?

“Equipping an elite specialisation takes up one of your three specialisation slots and grants you three minor traits and nine major traits for use. How does a trait that removes a condition every time you evade an attack sound? I’m personally excited about a grandmaster trait that has the power to grant my character a defiance bar!”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en-gb/news/specializations-part-two-reward-tracks-and-elite-specializations/

Sounds good, thank you for posting this. I do agree that defiance sounds more warrior than engineer-oriented…however, it doesn’t seem like it would just be giving warriors more of what they already have in stability?

Terrahero.9358:

If an elite spec gets defiance i’d bet it would be Warrior :P

Just an estimated guess based on looking back at the past 3 years of development. I feel Engineers are more pressured into a support role.

support? ive always played as a healthy mix of dps, control, and support since i got decent at running dungeons. in wvw ive only been able to run a selfish dps build, until stability changed and then better control builds opened up. in pvp ive always played as a bruiser whos pretty independent but works well with my team by intimidating others, and other good builds have always been fairly selfish nodefighter or burst, but never a support focus.

Terrahero.9358:

If an elite spec gets defiance i’d bet it would be Warrior :P

Just an estimated guess based on looking back at the past 3 years of development. I feel Engineers are more pressured into a support role.

Perhaps, but it wouldn’t make much sense from a gameplay standpoint. Warriors’ base profession is already melee oriented and has the tools to perform in such a role with decent stability uptime, invulnerability, etc.

Engineers, Necromancers (and maybe Elementalists) are primarily ranged professions and balanced as such. Their elite specs will be melee oriented, though. And they need the tools to function, as we already saw with the Knight Shroud that gives Reapers very decent access to stability.

I feel that might be a little redundant to give if juggernaut is being reworked to give stability, I dont think they would add defiance on top of that.

p.s. Oh I can hear the cries from the pvp forums now about juggernaut.

Penguin.5197:

I feel that might be a little redundant to give if juggernaut is being reworked to give stability, I dont think they would add defiance on top of that.

p.s. Oh I can hear the cries from the pvp forums now about juggernaut.

So, the entire elite spec must rely on a specific traited kit to function?

My guess is War will have an option to trade mobility for something. Defiance might be it.

What would Engi trade?

Anchoku.8142:

My guess is War will have an option to trade mobility for something. Defiance might be it.

What would Engi trade?

like all other specializations:
1 of our current trait-lines and the current class-mechanic (toolbelt)
Everything else is still available, so the specialization (like on all classes) adds more than it takes.

F.e. medi dps guards:
take longbow / hammer & meditations.
you still have your teleports, you still have the same condi-clears, you still have the same melee-burst, but now – in addition- you have a ranged dps option as well in the same build.

RabbitUp.8294:

Penguin.5197:

I feel that might be a little redundant to give if juggernaut is being reworked to give stability, I dont think they would add defiance on top of that.

p.s. Oh I can hear the cries from the pvp forums now about juggernaut.

So, the entire elite spec must rely on a specific traited kit to function?

Why would it? Were’d you get that from?
I’m just saying engie cant be getting defiance. I can’t see how developers would allow a class to have the potential to have both defiance and perma stability at the same time

Penguin.5197:

RabbitUp.8294:

Penguin.5197:

I feel that might be a little redundant to give if juggernaut is being reworked to give stability, I dont think they would add defiance on top of that.

p.s. Oh I can hear the cries from the pvp forums now about juggernaut.

So, the entire elite spec must rely on a specific traited kit to function?

Why would it? Were’d you get that from?
I’m just saying engie cant be getting defiance. I can’t see how developers would allow a class to have the potential to have both defiance and perma stability at the same time

A melee spec without access to stability is a spec that doesn’t work. You are saying hammer is ok because flamethrower grants stability when traited. So how do you play hammer without flamethrower/Firearms?

In any case, if Engineers do get the defiance bar, I don’t expect it to work without having the hammer active, otherwise, you could just slot the Mortar and spam fields from 1400+ range.

insanemaniac.2456:

Terrahero.9358:

If an elite spec gets defiance i’d bet it would be Warrior :P

Just an estimated guess based on looking back at the past 3 years of development. I feel Engineers are more pressured into a support role.

support? ive always played as a healthy mix of dps, control, and support since i got decent at running dungeons. in wvw ive only been able to run a selfish dps build, until stability changed and then better control builds opened up. in pvp ive always played as a bruiser whos pretty independent but works well with my team by intimidating others, and other good builds have always been fairly selfish nodefighter or burst, but never a support focus.

I’m talking about upcomming trait changes. anet devs seemed a wee bit to proud of all the awesome support stuff engineers can do.

I just have little confidence in anet. They thought it a good idea to combine Speedy Kits with Kit Refinement. Two traits that are almost mutually exclusive because they both require the exact opposite playstyle to work optimally, as a result they never get taken together.
But apparently anet thinks they are great chums and should go hand in hand. So that doesn’t exactly get my heart racing.

Terrahero.9358:

I’m talking about upcomming trait changes. anet devs seemed a wee bit to proud of all the awesome support stuff engineers can do.

I just have little confidence in anet. They thought it a good idea to combine Speedy Kits with Kit Refinement. Two traits that are almost mutually exclusive because they both require the exact opposite playstyle to work optimally, as a result they never get taken together.
But apparently anet thinks they are great chums and should go hand in hand. So that doesn’t exactly get my heart racing.

Yeah, that’s a single traitline you choose to use. And I’m actually eagier to see how it will perform and whether it will make support gamestyle viable. But to go from changes to a single traitline to say that Engineers are meant to be a support class is, sorry to say, stupid.

Other professions get similar traitlines, and that’s how the game should have always been. GW2 has one of the worst Pve modes, because everyone builds full dps. Hopefully, HoT’s content and the trait reworks will change that.

If you ask me, what devs seemed the most proud of were the changes to skills, like the Med Kit and Mortar.

RabbitUp.8294:

If you ask me, what devs seemed the most proud of were the changes to skills, like the Med Kit and Mortar.

You need to see the big picture the Devs were. How powerful would med-kit be with defiance?!? You could run of the downed allies, rez them and heal them up with the med-kit

Mobile Mortar of Defiance? Sounds like it’s defiant to me, running around with a mortar.

Loboling.5293:

RabbitUp.8294:

If you ask me, what devs seemed the most proud of were the changes to skills, like the Med Kit and Mortar.

You need to see the big picture the Devs were. How powerful would med-kit be with defiance?!? You could run of the downed allies, rez them and heal them up with the med-kit

Mobile Mortar of Defiance? Sounds like it’s defiant to me, running around with a mortar.

(You can heal them with the turret, too.)

I already addressed that. Keep in mind, the defiance bar is not a minor trait, but a Grandmaster major. That means it’s optional. If engineers do get it, I expect it to only work while you wield the hammer (actually wield it, not have it equipped and use a kit instead). And that’s why it will be optional, as not all elite Engineers will use the hammer.

And even if another class gets it, all have a ranged weapon option, so I expect a similar weapon-based restriction to apply.

RabbitUp.8294:

Yeah, that’s a single traitline you choose to use. And I’m actually eagier to see how it will perform and whether it will make support gamestyle viable. But to go from changes to a single traitline to say that Engineers are meant to be a support class is, sorry to say, stupid.

Other professions get similar traitlines, and that’s how the game should have always been. GW2 has one of the worst Pve modes, because everyone builds full dps. Hopefully, HoT’s content and the trait reworks will change that.

If you ask me, what devs seemed the most proud of were the changes to skills, like the Med Kit and Mortar.

Explosives GM has 2 out of 3 traits that are designed to be support useful. That was the example anet even used when talking about these traits, how great they’d be for support.
Then ofcourse the Inventions traitline is very support focussed. Elixirs isn’t complete, but the use of Elixirs inherently has a support potential and Tools also has some supporty traits.

The new Medkit is far better for support. Mortarkit is to replace Grenadekit for long-range, but the grenadekit was a damage focussed kit unlike the Mortarkit which also has elements of support in the form of the Healing shot at the expense of damage.

So there were a few more changes to promote support than just 1 traitline. Maybe you want to check the list or the video again before you call someone else stupid.

Terrahero.9358:

Mortarkit is to replace Grenadekit for long-range, but the grenadekit was a damage focussed kit unlike the Mortarkit which also has elements of support in the form of the Healing shot at the expense of damage.

grenade kit is to replace mortar for medium range, but the mortar was a damage focused utility unlike grenades which also has elements of support in the form of blind grenades and poison fields at the expense of damage.

hmm

using 1 skill to call something support doesnt really make sense. mortar 5 is prolly worth spamming on cd for dps just like nades 2/4, but we dont do it cuz mortar is stationary and gets 1 shot and gets us 1 shot and we might as well take a 3 minute cd aoe stun instead.

Terrahero.9358:

Explosives GM has 2 out of 3 traits that are designed to be support useful. That was the example anet even used when talking about these traits, how great they’d be for support.
Then ofcourse the Inventions traitline is very support focussed. Elixirs isn’t complete, but the use of Elixirs inherently has a support potential and Tools also has some supporty traits.

The new Medkit is far better for support. Mortarkit is to replace Grenadekit for long-range, but the grenadekit was a damage focussed kit unlike the Mortarkit which also has elements of support in the form of the Healing shot at the expense of damage.

So there were a few more changes to promote support than just 1 traitline. Maybe you want to check the list or the video again before you call someone else stupid.

If you count every trait and ability that can potentially affect an ally in a positive way as support focused, you will find that the vast majority of professions are apparently meant to be played as support. And saying that engineers have support options is completely different to saying that devs are actively forcing them in a support role.

How about examining the logic behind the changes? You didn’t even need to mention the Med kit changes, as Engineers use arguably the most support oriented of all often-seen heals already. Med Kit needs to find its niche with more boon support, as Healing Turret does both selfish healing/condi cleansing and ally support much better. It can even be used as both sustain and burst heal, and gives access to 2 water fields for more support.

Both Grenades and current Mortar feature a mix of dps and support. In any case, it’s no use discussing Mortar, as we don’t know if the new skills will retain the same functionality.