Guild Wars 2

I question the effectiveness of starting threads to get the attention of ANET to change in game mechanics of the engineer. There seems to be absolutely no feedback for months at a time and in that feedback there seems to be very little talked about the problems that you are having. There seems to be no list of suggestions that they take from here.

So what do we do when we want something in the game? Do we have to consistently make threads about our problems until they decide what we are saying is valid one day at a glance? Seems like you have to be a really good thread politic then and get like over 100 replies in order for them to take what you are saying seriously.

This system as it stands is constantly resulting in many repeat threads of the same things being said with different words. Seriously this is getting to be less communication and more of venting. Venting is one sided where as communication is where both parties talk to each other. If playing GW2 is an investment of relaxation time, and I want something that will improve my investment, you would think that someone would be all over helping me so they could get more money. I thought about getting gems and this new “Heart of Thorns” thing, but unless I find them taking what I say seriously, then I think I am seriously done with this game.

Players talking to other players only goes so far until it hits this dead end where both parties agree to disagree on alot of things or they both agree. The problem I have has yet to be fixed and talking about it and switching the build around has done nothing but made absolute frustration because it doesn’t work. So since it doesn’t work, why isn’t there an “engineer” to listen to the problem and fix it?

I do believe they hear it… but they really seem to either not care about the class or like it a lot. I mean just look at the hobosack issue. 2.5 years on the front page, begging for a fix to be as pretty as other classes and as it came we still didnt get all that nice looking replacements…bomb kit and mortar are especially ugly\low tech looking. No matter what level you are.. your mortar is gonna look like a lvl 5 rifle..well lvl rifle skins got atleast a barrel with kitten in the front…the mokittenoes not, meanwhile the npcs get the cool looking engineer technology to use like horrik with his cannon that clearly would be a perfect mortar kit visual, bomb kit looks like a rice cooker that spawns smaller cookers and it looks really bad especially on charr. Also if we get something nice for once in a while they nerf it right after…mortar´s 28%(!!!!!!) auto attack nerf makes that obvios. Its a very slow moving projectile that can be easily dodged and got such a massive nerf without any explaination…also to this day the intended purpose of the mortar (100% projectile finish) doesnt work proper. It took a long time after the specialisation balance patch to fix the bomb kits ranges..and it STILL misses some numbers. The explosive line also doesnt provide much bomb kit related traits..specially not masters and stuff like healing bombs are just gone now without any explaination why. The magnet is broken since the dawn of time, turrets take now CONDITION damage in all game modes and are so completely useless…and yes some people did use em outside of pvp believe it or not and so much more. Do we get a “yea, yea we fix it” or a “dont worry we nerfed that thing cause it was op cause -insert reason here-”? No.. we dont. We never do, its frustrating. Only thing they seem to care about is the darn grenade kit…its like they want engineers to only use that kit. Or just look what they did to the med kit. Its clunky as all hell and its pathetic weak…especially compared to the healing turret that heals allies and the engineer a lot more then a whole KIT dedicated to healing ever could…and so on and on…

Do they talk to us like Roy does with his revenant\herald? Like he explains changes\nerfs and buffs to certain things? I may not like the revenant a lot cause of the restrictive mechanics but i like roy a lot and how passionate and cooperative he works together with his players. Within a short time the revenant went from a joke to a seriosly cool and strong class… and it was an effort of players and developers. Stuff got talked out, feedback got read and stuff got changed to make it awesome\viable and cool looking. Somebody suggested a dodge effect for the rev and now it got it. Why? Cause it looks cool and nothing else.

Id be so gratefull if the engi devs could just be like “ey guise…lets talk it out, lets see how we can get on the same level. Lets see how we can make nice visuals, fix the issues, make traits that take all skills and playstyles into account and lets talk about why we nerf or buff certain things.”
But thats gonna be a pipe dream…

Basaltface.2786:

Somebody suggested a dodge effect for the rev and now it got it. Why? Cause it looks cool and nothing else.

we got a dodge effect? sweet. or you mean the evade on unrelenting assault?

i hope you mean a dodge effect like thief has that weird blurred line/noise when they evade.

zebbers.6139:

Basaltface.2786:

Somebody suggested a dodge effect for the rev and now it got it. Why? Cause it looks cool and nothing else.

we got a dodge effect? sweet. or you mean the evade on unrelenting assault?

i hope you mean a dodge effect like thief has that weird blurred line/noise when they evade.

check the BW3- change list in the revenant forum

Basaltface.2786:

zebbers.6139:

Basaltface.2786:

Somebody suggested a dodge effect for the rev and now it got it. Why? Cause it looks cool and nothing else.

we got a dodge effect? sweet. or you mean the evade on unrelenting assault?

i hope you mean a dodge effect like thief has that weird blurred line/noise when they evade.

check the BW3- change list in the revenant forum

revanant has been getting awesome Dev attention, really wish we could get some bug fixes.

reading Basaltfaces comment lets me almost feel bad for you engis. im not an engi main. i just run through all the forums sometimes and other classes have the complete opposite opinion about you. like:

engis: "we dont want hobosacks"
anet: "ok" (which as u said needed 3 years)

engis "we dont like new mortar animation"
anet "ok" (but the new one is even worse)

engis "turret engi is free wins for months and they do nothing"
anet "yeah" (and then they completely destroy it)

engi "without speedy kits we dont have 100% swiftness without doing kitten"
anet "sry we will instantly double the swiftness on streamlined kits"

for other professions it seemed like for a long time if an engi wants it he gets it. but this is clearly not the case. atm they are working on the elite specs anyways so its not the time but keep on discussing. ok ignore me and continue

Goldenrevolver.4371:

reading Basaltfaces comment lets me almost feel bad for you engis. im not an engi main. i just run through all the forums sometimes and other classes have the complete opposite opinion about you. like:

engis: “we dont want hobosacks”
anet: “ok” (which as u said needed 3 years)

engis “we dont like new mortar animation”
anet “ok” (but the new one is even worse)

engis “turret engi is free wins for months and they do nothing”
anet “yeah” (and then they completely destroy it)

engi “without speedy kits we dont have 100% swiftness without doing kitten”
anet “sry we will instantly double the swiftness on streamlined kits”

for other professions it seemed like for a long time if an engi wants it he gets it. but this is clearly not the case. atm they are working on the elite specs anyways so its not the time but keep on discussing. ok ignore me and continue

engineer was even nerfed with the trait patch. anet gave us a lot of awful traits and broke a lot of our trait synergy.

i believe we are gonna have a huge talk on engi once the elite is out for testing.
Feedback is gonna get collected and used to adjust both the class and the spec.
At least, i really hope so.

choovanski.5462:

Goldenrevolver.4371:

reading Basaltfaces comment lets me almost feel bad for you engis. im not an engi main. i just run through all the forums sometimes and other classes have the complete opposite opinion about you. like:

engis: “we dont want hobosacks”
anet: “ok” (which as u said needed 3 years)

engis “we dont like new mortar animation”
anet “ok” (but the new one is even worse)

engis “turret engi is free wins for months and they do nothing”
anet “yeah” (and then they completely destroy it)

engi “without speedy kits we dont have 100% swiftness without doing kitten”
anet “sry we will instantly double the swiftness on streamlined kits”

for other professions it seemed like for a long time if an engi wants it he gets it. but this is clearly not the case. atm they are working on the elite specs anyways so its not the time but keep on discussing. ok ignore me and continue

engineer was even nerfed with the trait patch. anet gave us a lot of awful traits and broke a lot of our trait synergy.

…a lot puts it mildly man…

i know i havent even played my engi after seeing the trait changes. just wanted to point that out. people are like: "engineers had their days of glory and absolute domination. they dont need to be fixed" which of course is absolutely stupid. btw the same argument is also raised in a lot of ele nerf topics like: "eles were really good in every game mode for a long time so you can nerf them to death" which of course is also not the right idea

i think that Anet takes a long time to address engineer issues because there are simply more people playing other classes than engineer and thus Anet focusing more resources on the other classes to fix their issues first pleases more people.

i don’t quite like their solution, which took 3 years, for the hobosacks though. first the weapons drawn is ugly as kitten, and second our kits still don’t show off our legendaries which is the main reason i still haven’t gotten one. cause half the time i’m wielding a kit.

apart from the hobosacks, anet also took their time in solving some pretty painful engineer issues in the past:

1) Rifle #5 back then was hopeless. slow animation, clunky, low damage for those of you who remember..

2) rocket boots back then was a self CC. you’d just fall backwards and CC yourself which was laughable…

if i remember correctly, it took slightly more than a year to fix these 2 issues. especially the rocket boots which was talked about ALOT

^ yea and now you pretty much named one of the reasons why not many people play the engi. Slow (if any) fixes…cept people whine about an engi build that wrecks stuff in pvp, then they fall over their feet to fix it….in the way a wrecking ball can fix a wristwatch

Gaaroth.2567:

i believe we are gonna have a huge talk on engi once the elite is out for testing.
Feedback is gonna get collected and used to adjust both the class and the spec.
At least, i really hope so.

I hope so too man, I hope so too.

Wall E.5349:

i think that Anet takes a long time to address engineer issues because there are simply more people playing other classes than engineer and thus Anet focusing more resources on the other classes to fix their issues first pleases more people.

Ranger is in the exact same spot and has fairly large player base.

Just here to say I agree with a lot of valid points here.

If, and I do say “if” Anet’s reading this, I’d very much like to see my turrets back to it’s old state. I mean, conditions on a turret? That doesn’t even make sense man. I used to work with ‘m all the time, since Engi’s my main character. Now I just can’t anymore. The old ground targeting system was heaven for me. Now that it’s gone I just ended up cursing a LOT. And then I found out they implemented that system into the medkit. Good grief, it’s so wasted on there. I still can’t seem to master it. If I need a quick getaway (and let’s face it, that happens a lot) I need to spend my valuable time on targeting where I’ll drop my speed kit. Seriously Anet?! Sometimes I think you fellas want me to die. -Sigh-

But hey, who am I and what do I know, right?

My problem is with the entire update they did with the engineer. All the moves they removed were actually quite useful for the most part. The only partially good change was the mortar until they nerfed that by 28%! Outside of that they should have really just left everything else alone because it worked properly and had good flow. My problem originally was the healing bombs and power converter from healing, but after putting on my full Cleric’s gear, I have found it to be much worse now. I tried on my all cleric’s gear to find my ATTACK POWER was less than 2k and even with all the runes and reverting back to Superior sigil of Bloodlust my attack power only hit around 2.4k attack power with full stacks. Don’t get me started on healing people and trying to keep them alive. I kid you not there was nearly no difference in heals whether I was in Cleric’s gear or full Zerker because engineer NO LONGER HAS THE HEALING SKILLS TO SUPPORT HAVING HEALING POWER. The heals were not enough nor is healing power needed anymore for engineer. Now we are left with scraps of what used to be a somewhat decent class to play, hence the new title we are given, Scrapper! Right now I am here to question whether or not I should play this class or throw GW2 in the scrapheap. I really hope they give Engineer something good rather than break the class apart even more than they already have. Its like we are talking to some heartless, money making machine that could care less about the opinions of its audience and leaves them wandering in an ocean of darkness and randomly bumping into things they can’t recognize. When will we get a real answer?

choovanski.5462:

Goldenrevolver.4371:

reading Basaltfaces comment lets me almost feel bad for you engis. im not an engi main. i just run through all the forums sometimes and other classes have the complete opposite opinion about you. like:

engis: “we dont want hobosacks”
anet: “ok” (which as u said needed 3 years)

engis “we dont like new mortar animation”
anet “ok” (but the new one is even worse)

engis “turret engi is free wins for months and they do nothing”
anet “yeah” (and then they completely destroy it)

engi “without speedy kits we dont have 100% swiftness without doing kitten”
anet “sry we will instantly double the swiftness on streamlined kits”

for other professions it seemed like for a long time if an engi wants it he gets it. but this is clearly not the case. atm they are working on the elite specs anyways so its not the time but keep on discussing. ok ignore me and continue

engineer was even nerfed with the trait patch. anet gave us a lot of awful traits and broke a lot of our trait synergy.

Nerfed? Nah. If anything we were buffed.

At WORST the patch was a lateral move.

Certain builds no longer became viable though, but that is hardly unique to us.

I’m only grinding for gold at the moment to see how this all plays out. So far I’ve collected a good amount for the time. If they can’t deliver on talking to us or giving us things we ask for that are not really game breaking, then I’m out. I tire of a one sided conversation with ANET.

paladinecho.3024:

I’m only grinding for gold at the moment to see how this all plays out. So far I’ve collected a good amount for the time. If they can’t deliver on talking to us or giving us things we ask for that are not really game breaking, then I’m out. I tire of a one sided conversation with ANET.

Can I have your stuff?

paladinecho.3024:

I’m only grinding for gold at the moment to see how this all plays out. So far I’ve collected a good amount for the time. If they can’t deliver on talking to us or giving us things we ask for that are not really game breaking, then I’m out. I tire of a one sided conversation with ANET.

Don’t trip on your way out.

For the others, it seems they changed something about magnet. At least players are pulled diagonally down from a wall to me now, rather than moving on a strict horizontal plane to fall down on me eventually.
So far I could not test it appropriately in open field, so you could some please do that & confirm or debunk my observation? Also no idea if that fixes their every-so-often bugged pulls.
Ty.

OP, the answer is yes, they hear us BUT with deaf ears.

You see, unlike elementalists, engies are under-represented in all 3 game modes. So if a popular class complains about us, rest assured we will get man handled until we are a threat no more.

Then there are idiots on this subforum that start threads about how engies are doing fine just fine.

It’s mind numbing how inconsistent our traits and utilities are. One example is the flame thrower. WTF is that a condi utility or direct damage? It cant be both because Anet made sure that the celestial amulet is out of reach for us.

You know, stuff like that…..

June patch scaled back ALL condition damage so in order to be effective, your condi skills and traits needed stacks. Eles got burning stacks, guards have burning stacks. Engies? Nope. Nades became a power based utility and the conditions it applied did not receive stack bonuses.

Then they put incendiary powder out of reach as a grandmaster trait under firearms. Meanwhile eles get high burn stacks with low cooldowns, a free cleanse that also applies 3 stacks of burning AND elemental attunement baseline.

You know, cow manure like that….

coz before the patch, cele rifle engies OWNED elementalist.

Another build that OWNED elementalists pre patch were celestial shoutbow warriors….

Edit: Im referring to engies in spvp

Small note, but the 100% projectile finisher for mortar is working properly.

In your guy’s minds its not, but it is in fact working as a projectile finisher.

How do projectile finisher’s work? Anything the projectile touches when under a combo effect, gets affected. This does not include the explosion. Most projectiles that are a finisher are not AoE effects, so you really only notice it with the mokitten

oes it feel bad? Yea. Is it broken and not working properly? No.

Vapour.7348:

OP, the answer is yes, they hear us BUT with deaf ears.

You see, unlike elementalists, engies are under-represented in all 3 game modes. So if a popular class complains about us, rest assured we will get man handled until we are a threat no more.

Then there are idiots on this subforum that start threads about how engies are doing fine just fine.

It’s mind numbing how inconsistent our traits and utilities are. One example is the flame thrower. WTF is that a condi utility or direct damage? It cant be both because Anet made sure that the celestial amulet is out of reach for us.

You know, stuff like that…..

June patch scaled back ALL condition damage so in order to be effective, your condi skills and traits needed stacks. Eles got burning stacks, guards have burning stacks. Engies? Nope. Nades became a power based utility and the conditions it applied did not receive stack bonuses.

Then they put incendiary powder out of reach as a grandmaster trait under firearms. Meanwhile eles get high burn stacks with low cooldowns, a free cleanse that also applies 3 stacks of burning AND elemental attunement baseline.

You know, cow manure like that….

coz before the patch, cele rifle engies OWNED elementalist.

Another build that OWNED elementalists pre patch were celestial shoutbow warriors….

Edit: Im referring to engies in spvp

WTF is this post oO

First of all, popularity doesn’t determine how fast/slow a class gets buffed/nerfed. Ranger & Thief are perfect examples for this.

2: Why do you feel the need to insult everybody? Can’t you contain your teen-angst somehow else? Besides, depending on your preferred play-style, the class very well may appear totally fine or utterly broken to you.

3: FT is neither. On condi builds you additionally pick it for its belt ability, beyond that it’s just cc + frequent blasts + savestomps.

4: With the June patch conditions got scalled UP dramatically. Have you even checked the numbers before/after? Also we have one of the single fastest burn application, covered by the single most accessible condis in any class, further covered by a metric cat-ton of cc. If you can’t see it, it doesn’t mean it’s not there. Especially when it comes to nades which only had a nerf on their #5 skill. All other nades are the same & even more dangerous now thx to bigger impact range, faster projectiles & the new shrapnel grandmaster. Actually nades of all our kits are extremely powerful when played as condi. And here’s why everybody is playing them as power now:

5: ICP did not get put out of reach, it actually sits atop a traitline that most builds currently run, especially condi builds. Why? because of the increased bleed-duration, bleeds on crits & 40% crit chance for free. The reason why we play them as power is that we don’t need precision anymore. Firearms comes with so much crit chance that we can happily run full-tank soldiers gear while still hitting like a truck.

6: If you really believe that pre-patch cele ele got owned by these builds, you’re not playing the same game as us. If all, they were stalling each other.

Please consider getting a few thousand hours playtime more, before ever attempting to call someone idiot again.

Earlier this year, I had 4 engies lined up on this account for pvp. All had unique builds and served different roles. Today 3 out of 4 of those builds are either non existent or completely nerfed to where it’s useless and you’d be a liability to the team.

Sure engies are still viable but the trait changes has killed a lot of build diversity and celestial ammy now yields underwhelming results unlike before.

no idea what these 4 builds might be, but how about you tweak them & try out other stat-combos than just cele.

Things that need fixing in my opinion;
- Why Pistol isn’t 1050 Range and piercing
- Medkit
- The Explosives line
- The effectiveness of certain traits

I feel after the expansion, there will be more hands free to fix things but for right now, it’s all hands on deck to get the expac out.

Arantheal.7396:

Vapour.7348:

OP, the answer is yes, they hear us BUT with deaf ears.

You see, unlike elementalists, engies are under-represented in all 3 game modes. So if a popular class complains about us, rest assured we will get man handled until we are a threat no more.

Then there are idiots on this subforum that start threads about how engies are doing fine just fine.

It’s mind numbing how inconsistent our traits and utilities are. One example is the flame thrower. WTF is that a condi utility or direct damage? It cant be both because Anet made sure that the celestial amulet is out of reach for us.

You know, stuff like that…..

June patch scaled back ALL condition damage so in order to be effective, your condi skills and traits needed stacks. Eles got burning stacks, guards have burning stacks. Engies? Nope. Nades became a power based utility and the conditions it applied did not receive stack bonuses.

Then they put incendiary powder out of reach as a grandmaster trait under firearms. Meanwhile eles get high burn stacks with low cooldowns, a free cleanse that also applies 3 stacks of burning AND elemental attunement baseline.

You know, cow manure like that….

coz before the patch, cele rifle engies OWNED elementalist.

Another build that OWNED elementalists pre patch were celestial shoutbow warriors….

Edit: Im referring to engies in spvp

WTF is this post oO

First of all, popularity doesn’t determine how fast/slow a class gets buffed/nerfed. Ranger & Thief are perfect examples for this.

2: Why do you feel the need to insult everybody? Can’t you contain your teen-angst somehow else? Besides, depending on your preferred play-style, the class very well may appear totally fine or utterly broken to you.

3: FT is neither. On condi builds you additionally pick it for its belt ability, beyond that it’s just cc + frequent blasts + savestomps.

4: With the June patch conditions got scalled UP dramatically. Have you even checked the numbers before/after? Also we have one of the single fastest burn application, covered by the single most accessible condis in any class, further covered by a metric cat-ton of cc. If you can’t see it, it doesn’t mean it’s not there. Especially when it comes to nades which only had a nerf on their #5 skill. All other nades are the same & even more dangerous now thx to bigger impact range, faster projectiles & the new shrapnel grandmaster. Actually nades of all our kits are extremely powerful when played as condi. And here’s why everybody is playing them as power now:

5: ICP did not get put out of reach, it actually sits atop a traitline that most builds currently run, especially condi builds. Why? because of the increased bleed-duration, bleeds on crits & 40% crit chance for free. The reason why we play them as power is that we don’t need precision anymore. Firearms comes with so much crit chance that we can happily run full-tank soldiers gear while still hitting like a truck.

6: If you really believe that pre-patch cele ele got owned by these builds, you’re not playing the same game as us. If all, they were stalling each other.

Please consider getting a few thousand hours playtime more, before ever attempting to call someone idiot again.

Lol I’m a friendly guy and you two go on ahead with your interesting argument but from my experience in-game, Vapour is a competent engie and plays like someone who knows what he’s talking about. I suggest you add him and team up like I did.

I’m also going to point out that pre-patch, celestial rifle 2 kit engineer could easily beat celestial d/d elementalist of similar skill level.

June patch scaled back all of the base condition damage. Not UP like you said. That is incorrect. What went up are the number of stacks that made conditions more powerful. But the base conditions were scaled back.

You sound like you play condi builds yet you seem unaware of the difference one stack of burning did pre patch relative to one stack of burning now

Arantheal.7396:

no idea what these 4 builds might be, but how about you tweak them & try out other stat-combos than just cele.

It’s kinda hard to tweak a grandmaster trait that no longer exist. I loved how we could invest points in all 5 trait lines back then. But that goes for all classes not just engies.

My engies used 3 amulets pre-patch, not just celestial.

abc.5790:

Arantheal.7396:

Vapour.7348:

OP, the answer is yes, they hear us BUT with deaf ears.

You see, unlike elementalists, engies are under-represented in all 3 game modes. So if a popular class complains about us, rest assured we will get man handled until we are a threat no more.

Then there are idiots on this subforum that start threads about how engies are doing fine just fine.

It’s mind numbing how inconsistent our traits and utilities are. One example is the flame thrower. WTF is that a condi utility or direct damage? It cant be both because Anet made sure that the celestial amulet is out of reach for us.

You know, stuff like that…..

June patch scaled back ALL condition damage so in order to be effective, your condi skills and traits needed stacks. Eles got burning stacks, guards have burning stacks. Engies? Nope. Nades became a power based utility and the conditions it applied did not receive stack bonuses.

Then they put incendiary powder out of reach as a grandmaster trait under firearms. Meanwhile eles get high burn stacks with low cooldowns, a free cleanse that also applies 3 stacks of burning AND elemental attunement baseline.

You know, cow manure like that….

coz before the patch, cele rifle engies OWNED elementalist.

Another build that OWNED elementalists pre patch were celestial shoutbow warriors….

Edit: Im referring to engies in spvp

WTF is this post oO

First of all, popularity doesn’t determine how fast/slow a class gets buffed/nerfed. Ranger & Thief are perfect examples for this.

2: Why do you feel the need to insult everybody? Can’t you contain your teen-angst somehow else? Besides, depending on your preferred play-style, the class very well may appear totally fine or utterly broken to you.

3: FT is neither. On condi builds you additionally pick it for its belt ability, beyond that it’s just cc + frequent blasts + savestomps.

4: With the June patch conditions got scalled UP dramatically. Have you even checked the numbers before/after? Also we have one of the single fastest burn application, covered by the single most accessible condis in any class, further covered by a metric cat-ton of cc. If you can’t see it, it doesn’t mean it’s not there. Especially when it comes to nades which only had a nerf on their #5 skill. All other nades are the same & even more dangerous now thx to bigger impact range, faster projectiles & the new shrapnel grandmaster. Actually nades of all our kits are extremely powerful when played as condi. And here’s why everybody is playing them as power now:

5: ICP did not get put out of reach, it actually sits atop a traitline that most builds currently run, especially condi builds. Why? because of the increased bleed-duration, bleeds on crits & 40% crit chance for free. The reason why we play them as power is that we don’t need precision anymore. Firearms comes with so much crit chance that we can happily run full-tank soldiers gear while still hitting like a truck.

6: If you really believe that pre-patch cele ele got owned by these builds, you’re not playing the same game as us. If all, they were stalling each other.

Please consider getting a few thousand hours playtime more, before ever attempting to call someone idiot again.

Lol I’m a friendly guy and you two go on ahead with your interesting argument but from my experience in-game, Vapour is a competent engie and plays like someone who knows what he’s talking about. I suggest you add him and team up like I did.

I’m also going to point out that pre-patch, celestial rifle 2 kit engineer could easily beat celestial d/d elementalist of similar skill level.

June patch scaled back all of the base condition damage. Not UP like you said. That is incorrect. What went up are the number of stacks that made conditions more powerful. But the base conditions were scaled back.

You sound like you play condi builds yet you seem unaware of the difference one stack of burning did pre patch relative to one stack of burning now

It doesn’t matter how often you two repeat it, the dmg from conditions got scaled up massively with condi dmg.

What seems to confuse both of you is how this change got introduced:
The formula for calculating condi dmg got completely overhauled, very much diminishing the returns from them if you don’t run condi power, or very low amounts of it (like cele, which has low amounts of all stats). So you are actually right up until this point.
What you forget is that condis start to tick harder & harder with rising condition power, until meeting the old condi-power scaling at roughly 700 condi dmg, where it starts to generate much more dmg per condi-power than the old condi-dmg formula did. And on top of that they also removed the stack-cap.

Source:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/combat-changes-dotsanddashes/
“Essentially, conditions are too effective right now without investing points into the condition-damage stat. We will significantly lower the base damage on damaging conditions while increasing how much they scale with the condition-damage stat. This means at lower levels of condition damage you can expect to do less damage than you currently do, while at higher values you’ll do even more damage than you are currently able to. The formulas are still being adjusted, but to give you an idea, the break-even point before you start doing more damage is around 700 condition damage.”

So yes, condi nades are still hitting like a truck. the only reason why only few people run it in PvP at the moment is because there are only 2 sets of main-condi gear in PvP, both of which only come with 1 defensive stat. If we had access to dire, I doubt you’d see much soldier-nade builds around anymore.

Please read up on the changes before posting, instead of trusting in the sayings of some random guy who seems to play his class well. Chance are he still doesn’t know jackkitten about it. Also, thanks for your suggestion of teaming up with your pall, but i rather decline, tyvm.

Pimsley.3681:

Arantheal.7396:

no idea what these 4 builds might be, but how about you tweak them & try out other stat-combos than just cele.

It’s kinda hard to tweak a grandmaster trait that no longer exist. I loved how we could invest points in all 5 trait lines back then. But that goes for all classes not just engies.

My engies used 3 amulets pre-patch, not just celestial.

And isn’t there anything that sounds fun to play?
If the answer to that is really no, it might be time to reroll… or hope for the next balance patch, which should come 1 or 2 months after HoT releases.

Conditions are crazy over the top atm, in fact damage in general. But to say that condis got scaled down is just plain wrong.

Burning is a prime example, it is so busted now, i made a burngineer video because im not sure how it made it past play testing. https://vimeo.com/135843991 Do Anet even test this stuff before rolling it out?

Med Kit needs a total revamp, it needs to be usable in the fast paced action environment of PvP/WvW. Using some clunky skill, placing the ground target circle, throwing the bottle/bandage, having it fly through the air and then needing someone to walk ov…… oh nm they died about 2 seconds ago.

Then there is the med blaster, so i can sit there spamming it and doing nothing else for a while. Or i could drop the healing turret blast it once or twice healing everyone and get back to applying pressure to the target. Again who designed this? Did they realise that they have access to healing turret(which also clears 2 condis). Which also requires no investment in healing power at all?

The inventions line, clearly this was the support line meant to replace EIB’s whilst SD is a minor fail and not worth taking, MDF is plain woeful and not even worthy of being a minor trait or worth taking, ever. What was wrong with EIB’s? Why did they need replacing? And who tested these traits?

These traits, med kit, it’s baffling how bad they are, at what point do you sit around a table after play testing this for a while and go kitten yeah, this is awesome!!!??

Maybe Anet read here, maybe not. But whoever the Engineer dev is needs to get out there and watch some twitch tv of engineer play at a proficient level. If there are actually any left that bother to stream, everyone probably rerolled mesmers or eles by now.

Does ANet hear engis? Evidence says yes. Things like the change to kits as back pieces are prime examples of this. Also, did you notice how we’re getting better condi cleanse with Scrapper?

Do things get changed as quickly as the community wants them to? No. But they’re programming an MMO. There’s a million and one things the community as a whole wants and changes take time/resources.

Does the community need to speak up to be heard? Of course. That doesn’t mean you need to cry like a kid who trash talks their parents for giving them a black iPhone instead of a white iPhone for Xmas, but it does mean that if there’s an issue important to you, then you should speak up about it in a constructive manner on the forums. There are a LOT of people playing this game and ANet can’t address everyone’s concerns right when they want them, so the volume of feedback can point the direction to what is most important to address first.

Dirame.8521:

Things that need fixing in my opinion;
- Why Pistol isn’t 1050 Range and piercing
- Medkit
- The Explosives line
- The effectiveness of certain traits

I feel after the expansion, there will be more hands free to fix things but for right now, it’s all hands on deck to get the expac out.

This right here is what I am hoping for. I hope they pay more attention to us soon.

I will give them a chance to do something about Elixir Infused Bombs and the healing power to attack power converter. It was a unique build that was on par with full PVT gear. Whatever they did to engineer healing, they took some really nice parts out and replaced them with scrappy sludge. Healing line needs an overhaul back to the older line all except for bunker down. Bunker down I say was a good addition to the healing line for those people who are all about zerker raw dps. Medical Dispersion field is by far on par with healing blast in terms of usefulness. Note that Healing Blast does not heal the user, does no damage to enemies, has very low healing power, and takes away a useful fighter out of the fight with animations that have little to no effect on combat.

To the other person saying the comment about tripping on the way out: not a way to keep people interested in the game. Its people like you who make a bad situation worse. I’m here to look for answers and not self righteous crap that disturbs the mood.

To you guys donating suggestions and other things that are good, even if they are from the other side, thanks for bearing with me and helping me understand the situation a bit more. I still await the answer from ANET like most of you guys, but thanks for the encouragement so far. I will give them a chance to set things right shortly after this Heart of Thorns crap finishes up. This HoT seems to be becoming a real nuisance when it comes to getting game mechanics fixed.

Chorazin.4107:

Conditions are crazy over the top atm, in fact damage in general. But to say that condis got scaled down is just plain wrong.

Burning is a prime example, it is so busted now, i made a burngineer video because im not sure how it made it past play testing. https://vimeo.com/135843991 Do Anet even test this stuff before rolling it out?

Med Kit needs a total revamp, it needs to be usable in the fast paced action environment of PvP/WvW. Using some clunky skill, placing the ground target circle, throwing the bottle/bandage, having it fly through the air and then needing someone to walk ov…… oh nm they died about 2 seconds ago.

Then there is the med blaster, so i can sit there spamming it and doing nothing else for a while. Or i could drop the healing turret blast it once or twice healing everyone and get back to applying pressure to the target. Again who designed this? Did they realise that they have access to healing turret(which also clears 2 condis). Which also requires no investment in healing power at all?

The inventions line, clearly this was the support line meant to replace EIB’s whilst SD is a minor fail and not worth taking, MDF is plain woeful and not even worthy of being a minor trait or worth taking, ever. What was wrong with EIB’s? Why did they need replacing? And who tested these traits?

These traits, med kit, it’s baffling how bad they are, at what point do you sit around a table after play testing this for a while and go kitten yeah, this is awesome!!!??

Maybe Anet read here, maybe not. But whoever the Engineer dev is needs to get out there and watch some twitch tv of engineer play at a proficient level. If there are actually any left that bother to stream, everyone probably rerolled mesmers or eles by now.

BASE DAMAGE got scaled down. Meaning one stack of burning prepatch did more damage than one stack of burning postpatch.

What happened was they made conditions more powerful thru STACKING. Prepatch, it was way harder to deliver more than one burn stack.

From patch notes:

*Condition Updates *
Damaging conditions were all reworked to better ensure damage is properly delivered in large-scale combat. All damaging conditions have been changed to intensity-stacking, and the maximum number of stacks for each damaging condition has been raised to a much larger number that should never be hit under normal circumstances.
•All damage conditions will now stack up to 1500 times.
•Bleeding: •The formula for this condition has been rescaled to account for the new behavior of damaging conditions and to put more focus on the condition damage stat.
•New damage over time: 2 + (0.25 * Level) + (0.06 * Condition Damage)

•Burning: •This condition will now stack in intensity. The formula for this condition has been rescaled to account for the new behavior of damaging conditions and to put more focus on the condition damage stat. Creatures that apply burning have been rebalanced to account for this change.
•New damage over time: 7.5 + (1.55 * Level) + (0.155 * Condition Damage)

•Confusion: •This condition now has two damage components—damage over time, and the damage dealt when an ability completes. The damage has also been normalized between all game modes. The formula for this condition has been rescaled to account for the new behavior of damaging conditions and to put more focus on the condition damage stat. The skill-use damage will also now trigger when the affected target is interrupted during skill activation.
•New damage over time: 2 + (0.1 * Level) + (0.035 * Condition Damage)
•New trigger damage: 3.5 + (0.575 * Level) + (0.0625 * Condition Damage)

•Poison: •This condition will now stack in intensity. Poison’s healing reduction will not depend on the number of stacks. Any poison will result in a static -33%, just as it currently does. The formula for this condition has been rescaled to account for the new behavior of damaging conditions and to put more focus on the condition damage stat. Creatures that apply burning have been rebalanced to account for this change.
•New damage over time: 3.5 + (0.375 * Level) + (0.06 * Condition Damage)

•Torment: •The formula for this condition has been rescaled to account for the new behavior of damaging conditions and to put more focus on the condition damage stat.
•New damage over time: 1.5 + (0.18 * Level) + (0.045 * Condition Damage)
•New damage while moving: 3 + (0.36 * Level) + (0.09 * Condition Damage)

•Vulnerability: •This condition was changed so that it not only increases direct damage, it also increases condition damage. Each stack will increase direct damage by 1% and condition damage by 1%.

•Slow: •This new condition is now present on some profession abilities and slows the activation of skills by 50% while active.

So overall they got a lot more powerful.

Yes, Anet hears engis. Almost all our prayers have been answered, whether it was something obvious (like the ugly backpacks) or something we didn’t know we needed, but were given anyway (glorious moa elixir and lazer beam from heaven)

Chorazin.4107:

So overall they got a lot more powerful.

^^^^this^^^^

I like how this abc guy is agreeing on condis getting more powerful without recognizing it…

Arantheal.7396:

Chorazin.4107:

So overall they got a lot more powerful.

^^^^this^^^^

I like how this abc guy is agreeing on condis getting more powerful without recognizing it…

….sigh omg.

You’ve lost track on what this was about. You are putting words in my mouth. That’s actually very rude. And it doesn’t change the fact that you were unaware of the difference in base damage. Pre patch no engie could deliver multiple STACKS of burning. You didn’t know that?

Anyway, this discussion was in relation to engie nades and celestial amulet not condition damage as a whole.

Damage from nades were reduced because condition damage got scaled back and NONE OF THE CONDITIONS from nades ever got stacked.

/end of discussion

abc.5790:

Arantheal.7396:

Chorazin.4107:

So overall they got a lot more powerful.

^^^^this^^^^

I like how this abc guy is agreeing on condis getting more powerful without recognizing it…

….sigh omg.

You’ve lost track on what this was about. You are putting words in my mouth. That’s actually very rude. And it doesn’t change the fact that you were unaware of the difference in base damage. Pre patch no engie could deliver multiple STACKS of burning. You didn’t know that?

Anyway, this discussion was in relation to engie nades and celestial amulet not condition damage as a whole.

Damage from nades were reduced because condition damage got scaled back and NONE OF THE CONDITIONS from nades ever got stacked.

/end of discussion

Don’t get too worked up. It’s been said that the engie subforum has gone way downhill in recent times. Not all engies here do as much spvp as you guys so don’t expect everyone to know the most granular details.

What’s the point of saying 1 burn stack prepatch was stronger than 1 burn stack now? Besides just trying to prove a point? Burn isn’t even applied as 1 stack now, and on average an Engi will have far more than 1 stack on a target at any given time, so why are we hooked on 1 stack trying to prove a pointless point just for the sake of argument? Burn is effectively more powerful than it was prepatch, by a country mile.

I don’t understand how condis being more powerful now is even up for debate. Just goes to show some people will literally argue about anything.

>You’ve lost track on what this was about.
You thinking condi-dmg got reduced, which it is not…

>You are putting words in my mouth. That’s actually very rude.
…Does he say & then posts the following:

>And it doesn’t change the fact that you were unaware of the difference in base damage.
In fact I was citing this as argument for your ridiculous claim of condis getting weaker. So it seems you were unaware of how the changes work instead of me. Irony…

>Pre patch no engie could deliver multiple STACKS of burning. You didn’t know that?
Never even mentioned any of the sorts. Besides, pre-patch burning was not a stacking condition at all. It puzzles me how you come to the conclusion that I would not know this. I mean, where is such a implication found? Do you hallucinate?

>Anyway, this discussion was in relation to engie nades and celestial amulet not condition damage as a whole.
Then better state that before claiming that condi dmg in general [since not specified otherwise] got scaled down. Just for your information: The current meta isn’t running cele either. It’s running marauder or soldier. And if it were available in PvP, it would run sinister or dire.

>Damage from nades were reduced because condition damage got scaled back and NONE OF THE CONDITIONS from nades ever got stacked.
Lol, bleeding did not stack pre-patch!? Burn also wasn’t even a condi applied by nades either.And the sources it got applied formerly from all got properly reworked. You’ve even posted the new formulas yourself, so go ahead and do the effort to compare them with the old formulas. Their base-dmg got reduced, yes. We all know that. But their scaling with condi-power got increased, causing way higher dmg output with x>=700 condi-power. Nades are still very much a hybrid weapon. An even stronger one than pre-patch. Guess why sinister engis are currently the single highest PvE-dps build in the game.
And also ask yourself why they weren’t before the patch. Funfact: you’ll find out on that way that our burn application is actually quite awesome, dismantling another initial complain from this thread.

You are even agreeing with us, without recognizing it, because you decided midway into the discussion that your arguments only apply to the outdated cele nade meta. Guess you should have informed us, cause now you just appear as rude newbie.

Arantheal.7396:

the outdated cele nade meta

im more responding at the text i quoted than you specifically here but…

so, the old cele meta build (60044/60062, cele, rifle, hoelbrak/vamp).

when 6/23 hit, condi damage was rebalanced to:

• nerfed for power builds
• status quo for cele
• buffed for condi builds

so that, barring anything else, should have meant cele rifle would survive. but other things happened too to the specs a cele rifle engi would take:

• ip moved to firearms
• vigor fights prot injection
• BPR nerf
• toolbelt reset removed
• 0% condi duration from explosives

even those prolly wouldnt have outright killed the build(s), but we also had to make a new decision — in order to keep burning access (which is what granted the build(s) the pressure it needed to kill things), you have to take both firearms and explosives. explosives is necessary because of the cover condis it offers — a bunch of vuln + other random things that arent burn — which made the seemingly puny 400 burn ticks stick around for the full duration every time. without firearms, cele rifle will have no pressure. without explosives, cele rifles pressure is susceptible to cleansing. that only leaves you with 1 more spec, which in a pvp setting obviously has to be alchemy. the nodefighter role requires ooc mobility, staying power, and pressure. you can get staying power and ooc mobility from 1 spec each, but pressure takes 2 specs… meaning cele rifle needs 4 specs to perform as it could prepatch, but only gets to pick 3 specs… and thats the final nail in the coffin after trait removal, forced meaningful choices, bug fixes (LOL), and condi changes / stat rebalancing.

I want to try to help out with the misunderstandings because I understand whats going on.

I think the point ABC was making is weather or not burns are more powerful now. He was just using that as an illustration, to better explain that burns or conditions in general is more powerful now because they stack.

Keyword is stack

In the past burns didn’t stack like they do now. But if you had condi dmg of say roughly 1500, your burn damage was around 700 per sec per stack. Now for 1500 condi stat, one stack does far less. However, burns in general are more powerful because some builds apply multiple burns stacks.

Now the nades for the celestial build is weaker because the base damage of conditions got scaled back while nades did not receive any stacking condis.

It’s confusing at first but I understand what hes trying to say.

Because after all, this thread is about devs not hearing what engies need. And the June patch has really messed up the traits.

This thread was posted in the PVP section right after the June patch. It highlights the careless traits devs have put together that made engies underwhelming compared to where they were before the patch.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Sad-End-for-The-Engineers/

The ignorance on this thread is too much. I can’t believe people still rub in what they think they know and cant fully grasp the reality of what’s being explained.

It’s reflects on your lack of knowledge when you are quick to call someone a noob when you fail to understand the underlying message.

I was planning on buying HoT with extra gems, but I’m waiting on ANET to return EIixir Infused Bombs and the Healing power to Attack power conveter. The rest of the stuff they have here, I could care less about. Hammer engineer seems like an engineer that is pretending to be a warrior or guardian. Definitely forsee alot of PVT gear changes with this. As far as right now goes its all or nothing, if they can’t deliver, I’m no longer interested in getting a playing style that doesn’t work. Its as if they were working on a car and took out the coolant container and replaced it with a milk carton with spoiling milk inside.

you cant purchase hot with gems.

paladinecho.3024:

I was planning on buying HoT with extra gems, but I’m waiting on ANET to return EIixir Infused Bombs and the Healing power to Attack power conveter. The rest of the stuff they have here, I could care less about. Hammer engineer seems like an engineer that is pretending to be a warrior or guardian. Definitely forsee alot of PVT gear changes with this. As far as right now goes its all or nothing, if they can’t deliver, I’m no longer interested in getting a playing style that doesn’t work. Its as if they were working on a car and took out the coolant container and replaced it with a milk carton with spoiling milk inside.

Unlikely. Ranger and Thief operate in melee range without need for PVT.

Sure they have tools to survive at the range, but it looks like we do to.

As for your complaints in regards to EIB and Clerics(?) I think maybe you are playing the wrong game if such a relatively minor change impacts your gaming experience/enjoyment this much.

Balance patches have almost always ruined entire swaths of builds. This has been the case since GW1.

cakeonroof.7385:

I want to try to help out with the misunderstandings because I understand whats going on.

I think the point ABC was making is weather or not burns are more powerful now. He was just using that as an illustration, to better explain that burns or conditions in general is more powerful now because they stack.

Keyword is stack

In the past burns didn’t stack like they do now. But if you had condi dmg of say roughly 1500, your burn damage was around 700 per sec per stack. Now for 1500 condi stat, one stack does far less. However, burns in general are more powerful because some builds apply multiple burns stacks.

Now the nades for the celestial build is weaker because the base damage of conditions got scaled back while nades did not receive any stacking condis.

It’s confusing at first but I understand what hes trying to say.

Because after all, this thread is about devs not hearing what engies need. And the June patch has really messed up the traits.

It’s all good. I wasn’t even mad. What you explained is part of what I was trying to say and that’s – the June patch disfigured a lot of our builds and felt as if they outsourced the balance changes to some firm in India or hired interns to work on the engie.

I want to say, I do not think Anet heard us, we asked not to have AI and we explained why , with relevant points for the elite spec, and we got the AI affected by the relevant points described. It is an underwhelming mechanic at any levels.
Moreover the traits affect mainly the utilities (gyros). Bugs are still here…

So I do not think we will get love until 2/3 months after release, and it makes me sad.