Guild Wars 2

Just a question. I personally find it extremely aggravating to micromanage.

Not since they ruined it, no.

Indeed. Kits are all about switching of the fly. This trait is completely against it – those effects are as situational as they can get.
And it does get more unreliable as the kits you use increase, making it even less useful.
Basically a wasted slot.
And it was so nice before. But no, they had to ruin it for the sake of pvp.

Zenguy.6421:

Once upon a time there was a humble trait called Kit Refinement. It came from a poor family of Adept traits, but overcame its lowly origins and rose to become a favourite choice for multi-kit engineers. Often these hard working patrons would put aside an extra 10pts in the Tools trait line just so they could hire Kit Refinement and its other Adept cousin, Speedy Kits, for their builds.

Then one day, instead of treating Engineers as merely an afterthought in their lofty schemes, the lords of the land, the ANet, turned the full might of their attention to the much maligned Engineers. “We shall help Engineers achieve their true place in the land of Tyria.” they said.

So the mighty ANet started to listen to the tales in the marketplace about Engineers, they tried sparring with a few Engineers, and even donned Engineer’s armour and tried out some of the Engineers tools in their mighty arenas. “Yes.” they said. “We finally see that some things are indeed not right with the Engineer. We will fix this.” And they started to make changes to the powers granted to Engineers.

But the prejudices of the mighty ran too deep for the fate of the lowly Kit Refinement. “What is Kit Refinement doing in so many builds?” the ANet asked. “Why is it that Engineers find it so useful? How are they getting such benefit from a mere Adept trait?” And so the fate of Kit Refinement was sealed.

The first warning Kit Refinement had of the change in its fate was when it received orders to slow down, to stop being so helpful all the time. But the orders were garbled and although Kit Refinement had to curtail its assistance to its more interesting but less powerful Engineer patrons, it was still able to do its work for the most powerful engineers.

The mighty Anet heard how their s instructions had been garbled, and how Kit Refinement was still helping the most powerful engineers, and they decided that was enough. “A lowly Adept trait should never be allowed such power! Return Kit Refinement to its lowly Adept status, and make sure it says there!”

Now Kit Refinement wanders the back alleys of Tyria, hoping for a visit from a kindly Engineer; hoping against hope that some curious Engineer will try it out in a build, at least for a little while, so that it can get a brief taste, a brief reminder, of the glory it once knew.

That pretty much sums it up.

My goodness that is brilliant.

Personally, i think i’ll define the act of making a trait useless as kitrefinement from now on.
Example: this trait was so nice, but it has got kitrefinemented.

I use it. It’s almost always in every build I make for engie that has kits.

Running triple Kit, it’s extremely difficult to justify Kit Refinement right now. The GCD really puts a damper on any possible combos you could hope to pull off.

Also, it wasn’t so much the complete revamp of skills as it was the removal of double condition cleanse from Elixir Gun and Flamethrower swap that made me drop FT/EG; as if that build needed any more nerfing in the first place. Kit Refinement got Smiter’s Booned. I’d have accepted the nerf more if they’d had removed the GCD and put KR into Master tier. As it stands, KR is only good if you’re running only 1 kit. Any more, and you’re discarding any hope of gaining consistent utility from your swaps.

The procs would be good if they were taken off a GCD OR if Engineers could instead proc them with the first autoattack in the swapped kit. As it stands, the current implementation has negative synergy with Speedy Kits, which then necessitates Power Shoes and a useless Adept Inventions slot. It’s pretty bad all around.

Rynn.1324:

Zenguy.6421:

Once upon a time there was a humble trait called Kit Refinement. It came from a poor family of Adept traits, but overcame its lowly origins and rose to become a favourite choice for multi-kit engineers. Often these hard working patrons would put aside an extra 10pts in the Tools trait line just so they could hire Kit Refinement and its other Adept cousin, Speedy Kits, for their builds.

Then one day, instead of treating Engineers as merely an afterthought in their lofty schemes, the lords of the land, the ANet, turned the full might of their attention to the much maligned Engineers. “We shall help Engineers achieve their true place in the land of Tyria.” they said.

So the mighty ANet started to listen to the tales in the marketplace about Engineers, they tried sparring with a few Engineers, and even donned Engineer’s armour and tried out some of the Engineers tools in their mighty arenas. “Yes.” they said. “We finally see that some things are indeed not right with the Engineer. We will fix this.” And they started to make changes to the powers granted to Engineers.

But the prejudices of the mighty ran too deep for the fate of the lowly Kit Refinement. “What is Kit Refinement doing in so many builds?” the ANet asked. “Why is it that Engineers find it so useful? How are they getting such benefit from a mere Adept trait?” And so the fate of Kit Refinement was sealed.

The first warning Kit Refinement had of the change in its fate was when it received orders to slow down, to stop being so helpful all the time. But the orders were garbled and although Kit Refinement had to curtail its assistance to its more interesting but less powerful Engineer patrons, it was still able to do its work for the most powerful engineers.

The mighty Anet heard how their s instructions had been garbled, and how Kit Refinement was still helping the most powerful engineers, and they decided that was enough. “A lowly Adept trait should never be allowed such power! Return Kit Refinement to its lowly Adept status, and make sure it says there!”

Now Kit Refinement wanders the back alleys of Tyria, hoping for a visit from a kindly Engineer; hoping against hope that some curious Engineer will try it out in a build, at least for a little while, so that it can get a brief taste, a brief reminder, of the glory it once knew.

That pretty much sums it up.

Wow. …….. just…. wow. Nice job.

kit refinement only works in singlekit builds and the only singlekit build i tried so far was nades + stuff. and the effect kit refinement activates when equipping a nade kit is… melee (Drop Mine). On a 1500 range kit. makes much sense.

the other singlekit build i can imagine is flamethrower. where kit refinement activates a Fire Shield. noone needs fireshields.

the only effects i find interesting are magnetic aura from medkit, but i find medkit just to weak to use in a non-specialized build. the other one is magnetic bomb (Set a timed charge that pulls nearby foes.), which activates on equipping Bomb kit.

not sure if the effects only trigger in combat, but if not, the main problem is that most of engis with kits keep switching on and off their kits to trigger swiftness (and vigor) and therefore keep putting kit refinement on cooldown.

I tried to use it as some of the effects have potential but they’re too situational. Also out of combat proc… why does it proc out of combat unlike sigils? If it wouldn’t you could at least get perma swiftnes OOC with speedy kits without keeping kit refinement on CD.
Also, as already mentionend, global CD is a real turn-off. Bad enough that we can’t supress the activation of the skills anymore with jumps (these wonderful times…).

Rest in peace, Kit Refinement. sheds a tear

MonMalthias.4763:

Running triple Kit, it’s extremely difficult to justify Kit Refinement right now. The GCD really puts a damper on any possible combos you could hope to pull off.

Also, it wasn’t so much the complete revamp of skills as it was the removal of double condition cleanse from Elixir Gun and Flamethrower swap that made me drop FT/EG; as if that build needed any more nerfing in the first place. Kit Refinement got Smiter’s Booned. I’d have accepted the nerf more if they’d had removed the GCD and put KR into Master tier. As it stands, KR is only good if you’re running only 1 kit. Any more, and you’re discarding any hope of gaining consistent utility from your swaps.

The procs would be good if they were taken off a GCD OR if Engineers could instead proc them with the first autoattack in the swapped kit. As it stands, the current implementation has negative synergy with Speedy Kits, which then necessitates Power Shoes and a useless Adept Inventions slot. It’s pretty bad all around.

On 3-kit builds it can be hard but on dual kit builds, it’s a lot easier. Especially seeing as you can tell when the trait is ready to proc on your toolbar. Of course, at times you might be switching so fast that you end up using it without noticing but when you nail it, it just feels like you couldn’t do without it.

Elixir Gun’s Glue trail is amazing for taking out Thieves, Magnetic bomb is amazing for securing stomps or rezzes, Toolkit superspeed is great for quick escapes or comboing with Rocket boots without needing to use Slick shoes (and when they finally reduce box of nails cast time, it would be doubly amazing for escapes).
The only ones I find useless are Flamethrower and Grenade kit (the mine doesn’t even knock people back, it couldn’t be more useless).

Elixir Guns Glue Trail I find was a lot more fun back when Sitting Duck didn’t have the internal cool-down. You could basically pop it and run around a person and suddenly stack 25 Vulnerability on them. Though I much prefer the days when swapping to Elixir Gun made a Super Elixir at your location. ): I miss you Kit Refinement of olde.

Kawloon Fuathach.3807:

Elixir Guns Glue Trail I find was a lot more fun back when Sitting Duck didn’t have the internal cool-down. You could basically pop it and run around a person and suddenly stack 25 Vulnerability on them. Though I much prefer the days when swapping to Elixir Gun made a Super Elixir at your location. ): I miss you Kit Refinement of olde.

Sitting Duck was definitely hit hard by the implementation of the ICD. The Glue Trail and Glue Bomb was the only way to my knowledge aside from Grenade spam to spike 25 Vulnerability on a target. I ran Elixir Gun for a while specifically for this purpose, but with it gone, Kit Refinement no longer has a place. Power Wrench or even Static Discharge are stronger or more consistent now, which is a sad state of affairs when you consider the Static Discharge bugs and requirement of more than 1 target to deal its full damage.

If players had more control as to when to proc Kit Refinement such as on the first autoattack of the Kit, it may see the light of day again. As it stands, the negative synergy with Speedy Kits and the weakness of certain procs – Flamethrower, Grenade Kit, locks it out of use in many builds.

Flamethrower in particular should get its Cleansing Fire proc back. I don’t mind Mine for Grenade Kit, but it really should be Flash Grenade instead of a single Toolbelt mine.

These were issues that were already brought up around the time of the Kit Refinement nerf. Sadly, it fell upon deaf ears, and all to remove a single build – 100nades.

It’s almost like Arenanet doesn’t want even the barest possibility of a viable Power Engineer build to exist, and that condi-bruiser Bomb/Nade in PvP and WvW should be the only strong, widely applicable build.

Hopefully the March 18th update debugs Static Discharge and Turrets enough for some off-the-wall Turret Power builds to be viable; but I’m not holding my breath. I’m especially wanting to see the true power of Ceimash’s Turret Burst Build once it is debugged enough to be useful.

I think one way to make this more usable would be to give some control and a per-kit CD for this.

What I’d do is this:

• Kit Refinement replaces the “unequip kit” skill of each kit with a new one.
• The new skills do effect X (some rebalance of the current effect) + unequip the kit. They have CDs, depending on effect and it’s strengths.
• While on CD, the skills chain into the normal unequip.

Carighan.6758:

I think one way to make this more usable would be to give some control and a per-kit CD for this.

What I’d do is this:

• Kit Refinement replaces the “unequip kit” skill of each kit with a new one.
• The new skills do effect X (some rebalance of the current effect) + unequip the kit. They have CDs, depending on effect and it’s strengths.
• While on CD, the skills chain into the normal unequip.

Anet believes that the combos that would be possible if the trait worked on a per kit basis (mainly the potential combo of magnet bomb and glue trail) would be too good to let loose. I can see their point. Just landing glue trail alone is enough to leave people in a bad position talk less of glue trail, glue bomb and then every other bomb + grenades.

Then the bottom line is that they shouldn’t have designed it that way, I think. It’s extremely cumbersome to manage when running multiple kits. I know firsthand how powerful the glue trail and magnetic bomb can be, but I still can’t justify taking the trait when I have such limited control over its activation.

“kitrefined”

Friend of mine replaces Speedy Kits with Kit Refinement when running with a guild group sharing swiftness boon.

It is hard to manage and the benefit is low. Does not work for me.

Aegael.6938:

Then the bottom line is that they shouldn’t have designed it that way, I think. It’s extremely cumbersome to manage when running multiple kits. I know firsthand how powerful the glue trail and magnetic bomb can be, but I still can’t justify taking the trait when I have such limited control over its activation.

The thing is, the trait is still quite formidable especially when you use it in EG and BK. Glue trail just sets up bomb kit like crazy and the fact that immob duration now stacks makes the combo even more formidable now. What needs to be improved is the other Kit refinement skills. Of course you could make a burning/might-stacking build with the FT but, a Condi cleanse and a 3 sec AoE burn beat that hands down and don’t get me started again on how bad the grenade kit refinement is.

I used to use it with elixir gun for a while when they first changed it, but it was just too hard to justify it’s use.

It always annoyed me that my character would shout out “slick shoes!” when using the glue sometimes too… made it really obvious that it was a copy-paste job.

IMO if they got rid of the GCD, it would at least be somewhat workable again, although I think some of the abilities still need to be a bit stronger than they currently are. I was fine with them removing things like the double super elixir (man that was a luxury), but some of the stuff they replaced it with isn’t really anything worthwhile… especially the grenade kit. Went from the most OP KR to the weakest.

Dirame.8521:

Aegael.6938:

Then the bottom line is that they shouldn’t have designed it that way, I think. It’s extremely cumbersome to manage when running multiple kits. I know firsthand how powerful the glue trail and magnetic bomb can be, but I still can’t justify taking the trait when I have such limited control over its activation.

The thing is, the trait is still quite formidable especially when you use it in EG and BK. Glue trail just sets up bomb kit like crazy and the fact that immob duration now stacks makes the combo even more formidable now. What needs to be improved is the other Kit refinement skills. Of course you could make a burning/might-stacking build with the FT but, a Condi cleanse and a 3 sec AoE burn beat that hands down and don’t get me started again on how bad the grenade kit refinement is.

Cleansing Fire for Flamethrower was great and absolutely needs to return. Fire Shield? Both the effect and the weapon skill on Elementalist /Focus are awful. That was one change that most assuredly was un-necessary.

Arenanet then went on ahead and possibly overbuffed the Elixir Gun and Bomb Kit Kit refinement procs. 240 range AOE pull? Mad strong considering you can combo with Glue Bomb. Glue Trail now that Immobilise stacks up to 3? Commence the immobilise train and watch that duration climb to double digits.

Magnetic Aura could be strong for Med Kit; if only it didn’t have negative synergy (again!) with Enhanced Performance and the duration was longer than 2 seconds.

All of these issues can be resolved by tying the proc to the “1” skill of the respective kit instead of “on swap”. The GCD can stay for all I care; I just want control as to when and where I proc the trait.

As for when and where? How about:

• Not out of combat,
• Not when I’m trying to get Speedy Kits going,
• Not when I want Might Stacks out of Enhance Performance, and
• Not when I’m just after a Weapon swap so I can get my Battle or Doom Sigil going.

Carighan’s idea of proccing only on unequip has merit, but it has the disadvantage of having negative synergy when channelling Kit skills – a proc when unequipping a kit whilst channeling Magnet Pull to combo into Jump Shot, or a proc when unequipping Elixir Gun in the middle of the Acid bomb leap could interrupt all these effects given that they are on the GCD.

MonMalthias.4763:

Dirame.8521:

Aegael.6938:

Then the bottom line is that they shouldn’t have designed it that way, I think. It’s extremely cumbersome to manage when running multiple kits. I know firsthand how powerful the glue trail and magnetic bomb can be, but I still can’t justify taking the trait when I have such limited control over its activation.

The thing is, the trait is still quite formidable especially when you use it in EG and BK. Glue trail just sets up bomb kit like crazy and the fact that immob duration now stacks makes the combo even more formidable now. What needs to be improved is the other Kit refinement skills. Of course you could make a burning/might-stacking build with the FT but, a Condi cleanse and a 3 sec AoE burn beat that hands down and don’t get me started again on how bad the grenade kit refinement is.

Cleansing Fire for Flamethrower was great and absolutely needs to return. Fire Shield? Both the effect and the weapon skill on Elementalist /Focus are awful. That was one change that most assuredly was un-necessary.

Arenanet then went on ahead and possibly overbuffed the Elixir Gun and Bomb Kit Kit refinement procs. 240 range AOE pull? Mad strong considering you can combo with Glue Bomb. Glue Trail now that Immobilise stacks up to 3? Commence the immobilise train and watch that duration climb to double digits.

Magnetic Aura could be strong for Med Kit; if only it didn’t have negative synergy (again!) with Enhanced Performance and the duration was longer than 2 seconds.

All of these issues can be resolved by tying the proc to the “1” skill of the respective kit instead of “on swap”. The GCD can stay for all I care; I just want control as to when and where I proc the trait.

As for when and where? How about:

• Not out of combat,
• Not when I’m trying to get Speedy Kits going,
• Not when I want Might Stacks out of Enhance Performance, and
• Not when I’m just after a Weapon swap so I can get my Battle or Doom Sigil going.

Carighan’s idea of proccing only on unequip has merit, but it has the disadvantage of having negative synergy when channelling Kit skills – a proc when unequipping a kit whilst channeling Magnet Pull to combo into Jump Shot, or a proc when unequipping Elixir Gun in the middle of the Acid bomb leap could interrupt all these effects given that they are on the GCD.

The only reason I’d disagree with your idea is that, with your idea, KR can’t be used as an instant skill. Right now, because of the way kits function you’re able to use kit refinement whilst using other skills but, if we attach activation of KR to the activation of skills we’re at the mercy of stuns and interrupts.

Dirame.8521:

MonMalthias.4763:

Dirame.8521:

Aegael.6938:

Then the bottom line is that they shouldn’t have designed it that way, I think. It’s extremely cumbersome to manage when running multiple kits. I know firsthand how powerful the glue trail and magnetic bomb can be, but I still can’t justify taking the trait when I have such limited control over its activation.

The thing is, the trait is still quite formidable especially when you use it in EG and BK. Glue trail just sets up bomb kit like crazy and the fact that immob duration now stacks makes the combo even more formidable now. What needs to be improved is the other Kit refinement skills. Of course you could make a burning/might-stacking build with the FT but, a Condi cleanse and a 3 sec AoE burn beat that hands down and don’t get me started again on how bad the grenade kit refinement is.

snip of own post

The only reason I’d disagree with your idea is that, with your idea, KR can’t be used as an instant skill. Right now, because of the way kits function you’re able to use kit refinement whilst using other skills but, if we attach activation of KR to the activation of skills we’re at the mercy of stuns and interrupts.

I dunno, isn’t that the point of counterplay though? Instant skills take the risk out of casting in the first place. Don’t get me wrong; they have their place; but with effects as powerful as Magnetic Bomb and Glue Trail I think opponents absolutely should get the chance to interrupt us.

Besides, no 1 skill in Engineer kits exceeds 0.75 seconds in cast time (excluding aftercast); with the slowest being Drop Bandage (ridiculous aftercast) and Tranquilizer dart (minor aftercast, long cast). If opponents interrupt that, more power to them.

MonMalthias.4763:

I dunno, isn’t that the point of counterplay though? Instant skills take the risk out of casting in the first place. Don’t get me wrong; they have their place; but with effects as powerful as Magnetic Bomb and Glue Trail I think opponents absolutely should get the chance to interrupt us.

Lol, typical Engi-thread:

Engi A: “skill x is now useless”

turns into

Engi B: “but this part of the skill is still somewhat strong, would deserve further nerfing”

hydeaut.1758:

MonMalthias.4763:

I dunno, isn’t that the point of counterplay though? Instant skills take the risk out of casting in the first place. Don’t get me wrong; they have their place; but with effects as powerful as Magnetic Bomb and Glue Trail I think opponents absolutely should get the chance to interrupt us.

Lol, typical Engi-thread:

Engi A: “skill x is now useless”

turns into

Engi B: “but this part of the skill is still somewhat strong, would deserve further nerfing”

Part of the reason why KR was nerfed in the first place was because the proc was instant cast. If you’d read a 100nades thread back then it basically boiled down to:

• 100nades so OP I die instantly no counterplay plz nerf
• Rejoinders to l2p by Engineers defending the build that the magnet pull is plenty telegraphed l2pnub
• counter-rejoinders by annoyed players that the build is ridiculous and shouldn’t belong in the game, instant burst without counterplay belongs to thieves and thieves alone
• arguments as to the place of instant burst in an actiony game like GW2
• calls to l2p on both sides
• descent into ad hominem
• pot, kettle, black.

You can bet the same will happen if people die to the “instant” AOE pull or the “instant” glue trail that they never saw coming

• calls to l2p on both sides
• nerfarino pleaserino dongerino
• grievances settled by moderator lockings
• KR nerfed again, now procs quaggan shaped balloons of different colours depending on kit that float into air and explode, frightening children and showering everyone in candy
• Candy!

i would kill to get a trait that procs quaggan shaped balloons :O

Is that the Quip effect for KR?

MonMalthias has it right, the irony of the hundo nade was only half of the damage was non telegraphed, and you had to be standing inside the other person. And if it failed you were essentially dead. Hell I remember getting downed if my target had retal sometimes, even if I pulled the combo of perfectly.

The nerf was justifed imo in the end, but the replacement is just as imbalance as it was before. Now its the bomb and e-gun that have OP effects, but the clunky anit-synergistic GCN keeps them in check.

What i find especially annoying is that there was no problem at all in pve, yet they had to nerf it there as well.
Same for the old flamethrower/juggernaut.

Manuhell.2759:

What i find especially annoying is that there was no problem at all in pve, yet they had to nerf it there as well.
Same for the old flamethrower/juggernaut.

That’s the consequence of “ideally no splits for PVP and PVE” stance that Arenanet has taken. The knife cuts both ways but really, the trait should have been properly tested and balanced in the first place; something that sadly has not happened for many trait effects.

You may commence your cries for a PTR and/or bi-weekly balance updates…now.

Linc.6834:

Now its the bomb and e-gun that have OP effects

Actually, the elixir gun also had an OP effect with the old kit refinement. Being able to instance drop an extra super elixir mean that you could instantly break out of fears, and you would generally then drop your normal super elixir on top of the KR one to effectively double the power of super elixir. The healing output of this was equatable to the ranger’s troll unguent, except that it applied to 5 allies standing in the AoE. In dungeon groups, this provided very strong healing for your party, who would often be stacked up to tackle mob groups anyways. In addition, you still had your normal healing skill to work with. It made the elixir gun a very powerful tool to defend nodes with in sPvP as well since you could give yourself strong additional healing while not having to leave the node.

I always thought that the Elixir Gun was in fact the reason for the nerf. That was by far the strongest effect.

Adamantium.3682:

Not since they ruined it, no.

Exactly my sentiment.

Yamsandjams.3267:

Linc.6834:

Now its the bomb and e-gun that have OP effects

Actually, the elixir gun also had an OP effect with the old kit refinement. Being able to instance drop an extra super elixir mean that you could instantly break out of fears, and you would generally then drop your normal super elixir on top of the KR one to effectively double the power of super elixir. The healing output of this was equatable to the ranger’s troll unguent, except that it applied to 5 allies standing in the AoE. In dungeon groups, this provided very strong healing for your party, who would often be stacked up to tackle mob groups anyways. In addition, you still had your normal healing skill to work with. It made the elixir gun a very powerful tool to defend nodes with in sPvP as well since you could give yourself strong additional healing while not having to leave the node.

I know isn’t it terrible that we actually had a system that worked and worked well, much less a system where there actually was a healing role? I mean cmon, we all know that we shouldn’t have healing in this game, there’s only burst DPS roles for everyone! <.<

They really should return it to what it was, the omgwtfbbqeverythingisop crowd is just going to have to get over it. PVE should not suffer because PVP players cannot learn how to build their characters for a good defense and offense balance.

The thing that gets me is they didn’t change that 1 skill. If they removed the ability for it to remove CC that would have been fine but they went wayyyyyy overboard and destroyed alot of other very useful things like caltrops for bunker condition builds and a shield that doesn’t even last as long as shields from other classes 5 seconds. spssh

I still cannot fathom why they went in the direction they did with this. Its an excellent example of the developers not listening whatsoever to the community. In fact, the community loved this trait and was one of the few things that wasn’t constantly under attack by angry players. From beta up until the point they trashed this trait I loved running various kit builds that all become so much more interesting due to their refinement powers. Was some of it on the verge of being too powerful? Maybe, but is it too much to ask that you just MINORLY tweak it. You could have just made this a grandmaster trait and I would have been happier. Shame on you Anet someone somewhere in you building should be ashamed of this. I will go and enjoy my Wildstar Engineer now, but I will always remember the good times we had.

Well i prefer the effects as they are rigt now. The trait definetly needs a tweak but the effects are at least more interesting as the old ones, which just copied skills u had anyway.

Half of the current KR skills are just copied skills, although from other professions. Hell, the only two that aren’t are the Bomb Kit and Elixir Gun, and you can argue that the bomb is similar to Into the Void, and the Elixir Gun is just a modified Slick Shoes. There is just about no originality in the new KR, nor are they that interesting, at least in my opinion.

If they had concerns they should have made minor adjustments to that 1 skill, instead they broke KR entirely by taking out a plethora of other skills that were highly useful and only put 1 in that made very little difference in the process. (the shield from the healing kit)

To me it’s kinda like removing the rocket from the bazooka and replacing it with fireworks and wondering why nothing is blowing up when firing.

Aside from the weak effects (2 second shield? That’s worse than what you get from 1 blast finisher!) the fundamental problem with KR is the shared cooldown among the kits. I could even forgive the near useless effects themselves if KR didn’t discourage you from using multiple kits.

Given that our profession is balanced around using kits (another problem entirely, but that’s just how it is) it’s inconceivable to me why they changed KR in such a way that discourages using multiple kits. It has negative synergy with the rest of the Engineer.

Being able to find a niche build that this trait happens to work in doesn’t make it any better.

I liked it when i could pop into elixir gun to get a point blank super elixir, or grenade kit for a point blank barrage. they could have retained those and bumped it up a tier, rather than completely reworking it.

No it’s just like the Health Kit that had it’s spine ripped out by Anet. (Cya condi removal) Completely useless; and we wonder why engi’s have problem with condition removal.

http://pastebin.com/dmACCzwx

Assuming this is real…
Massive buff for KR inc. Imo some effects are going to be ridiculous… 50% uptime on super speed, perma fire shield (gear as tanky as possible + get retal and deal up to 1k dps with some might as long as the enemy keeps attacking you… new skillful playstyle under way), yet another condition for nade builds (we like cond builds getting even more conds, don’t we?). 4 out of 10 second projectile reflect will possibly make a hard counter for builds relying on projectiles (though conds might keep HT in slot for the many engis).

Anyway, let’s start the theorycrafting, let me be your guide: http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/

and a blast finisher on a 10sec cooldown XD

Silinsar.6298:

Assuming this is real…
Massive buff for KR inc. Imo some effects are going to be ridiculous… 50% uptime on super speed, perma fire shield (gear as tanky as possible + get retal and deal up to 1k dps with some might as long as the enemy keeps attacking you… new skillful playstyle under way), yet another condition for nade builds (we like cond builds getting even more conds, don’t we?). 4 out of 10 second projectile reflect will possibly make a hard counter for builds relying on projectiles (though conds might keep HT in slot for the many engis).

Yeah, after reading those changes (at the end of engie’s patch notes) I started to doubt if the notes are real.

Super Speed is so extremely nice for getting away (Rocket Boots says “hi”) and keeping catching to enemies that decided they would like to leave combat and also it is a 10s stun break. They buffed it from 10% uptime to 50% uptime.

Fire Shield can be very very punishing and looks like a way to create Healway Guardian builds on engineer where you want to focus on survivability and let attackers get punished by trying to hit you. Also running with the new Juggernaut trait in zergs with perma fire shield sounds silly and fun at the same time. They buffed it from 25% uptime to 100% uptime.

Magnetic Aura with 40% uptime (10% before), some extra survivability boost from Enfeebling Grenades, etc, etc.

Global cooldown makes it still PITA to handle when running with multiple kits, but not having that cooldown for the version described in the notes would be pretty insane, so I guess that is a price to pay for running multiple kit setups.

It makes the trait looks a LOT more useful and I am not sure how long will it remain in this form until it gets nerfed. Of course if those notes are not fake.

Yea, I’m looking forward to patch day if those notes are real. Will definitely be slotting KR and FT.

50% uptime of super-speed with 10s stunbreak, or 40% uptime of reflect, or an extra condi application will make kit-refinement builds able to be carried by that trait alone.

Currently engie is top-dog roaming. Anet is making them undisputed champs..

kubetz.3058:

Yeah, after reading those changes (at the end of engie’s patch notes) I started to doubt if the notes are real.

Super Speed is so extremely nice for getting away (Rocket Boots says “hi”) and keeping catching to enemies that decided they would like to leave combat and also it is a 10s stun break. They buffed it from 10% uptime to 50% uptime.

Fire Shield can be very very punishing and looks like a way to create Healway Guardian builds on engineer where you want to focus on survivability and let attackers get punished by trying to hit you. Also running with the new Juggernaut trait in zergs with perma fire shield sounds silly and fun at the same time. They buffed it from 25% uptime to 100% uptime.

Magnetic Aura with 40% uptime (10% before), some extra survivability boost from Enfeebling Grenades, etc, etc.

Global cooldown makes it still PITA to handle when running with multiple kits, but not having that cooldown for the version described in the notes would be pretty insane, so I guess that is a price to pay for running multiple kit setups.

It makes the trait looks a LOT more useful and I am not sure how long will it remain in this form until it gets nerfed. Of course if those notes are not fake.

I think the 100% fireshield uptime must be really really fake. It would completely ruin all the “skill” it takes to run an engineer. I mean: FT, Bomb, Juggernaut, fireshield 100% uptime, Burning 100% uptime, pull every 10 secs, insane amout of might from juggernaut, combo finishers and fireshield, sigil of doom for poison, pistol/shield. You don’t even need the third kit.

Basically what we can do now, we will be able to do better, while also performing at close range.

EDIT: I just realized, triggering one kit’s effect will “increase” the cooldown if you want the next kit effect to be triggered. I mean, if you want fireshield up 100% of the time, you will never be able to use the bomb kit “kit refinement” skill. Also the toolkit stunbreak effect will be very unreliable, since we are used to switch between kits very often and we can’t just use a kit waiting for the enemy to stuns us in order to switch to toolkit and break stun. Plus it may be in cooldown without us knowing.

Waitwaitwaitwaitwaitaminute…. The FT is in danger of becoming OP???

The FT is not in a good place. It’s the general consensus (proved in a thread on the front page) that it’s not a good choice for damage next to the explosive kits. Now just having a fire shield makes it OP? Let’s be consistent here, the FT needs help and a shield that is going to burn attacking opposing characters in melee range of you is not going to drastically alter its effectiveness. The might stacks from fire field aren’t as big as it sounds, most FT might stacking Engineers have no problem getting to 20-25 stacks as it is now.

This does look a whole lot more real than the elite skills we saw last week. If it is fake, sprinkling in some changes that have been confirmed was a nice touch.

Adamantium.3682:

This does look a whole lot more real than the elite skills we saw last week. If it is fake, sprinkling in some changes that have been confirmed was a nice touch.

Actually 1 elite from those patch notes leaked last week are also in these patch notes which surprised me a lot. I am talking about the necro one which was basically copy&pasted AFAIK.

I am not sure if it adds credibility to last week’s leak or make the current leak less believable.