Guild Wars 2

I understand that we as engineers are a bit unbalanced in certain areas, but I would say we (as zerk engineers) are incredibly OP underwater. Between scattermines from the harpoon gun 2 at melee range and grenade barrage, I don’t know if I have ever seen a profession survive this combo (when done correctly) not to mention that our 5th skill on harpoon is an immobilize that sets this combo up perfectly. So mainly I guess what I’m getting to is Anet I’m ok with all the bugs we engies get as long as you give us an niche where we are the best and I would like that to stay as underwater (P.S. pls no nerfs to engi underwater when DSD content is released.)

Figured I would post this here far before DSD comes out so we have a point of reference.

In my opinion, Mesmer is far stronger under water. Sirens Call is VERY overpowered. Combine that with several clones all casting the same thing and thats like 3+ stacks of bleeding every .5seconds and combine that with traits and sigils that is ALOT of bleeding on its own.

Then you have the Phantasm with its 5 stacks of confusion and all the utilities they have on offer.

I was called fanboy in another thread where some engineers cried about how weak harppon gun is. This just showed me up how weak a big part of the community plays. I am not afraid about a nerf because most engineers will need years or will never get behind how strong engineer is underwater. Au contraier they tell you they avoid underwater combat because they feel so weak.

The fact that immediatly a guy shows up and tells us mesmer is more op confirms this. Mesmer is strong underwater but sucks hard compared with engi.

Forestnator.6298:

The fact that immediatly a guy shows up and tells us mesmer is more op confirms this. Mesmer is strong underwater but sucks hard compared with engi.

I play both, Mesmer is ALOT stronger but that is just my opinion. Both my characters are level 80 as well, So that cant be used as a reason.

We are 13 months after release. Many ppl play all classes now. I also play mesmer. It’s just funny sometimtes what people tell about their main classes. For example a ranger tried to explain me that ranger is so strong underwater. He also plays engineer and ranger is superior to engi underwater. No comment…

I do also find mesmer in a very strong position underwater. Siren’s call is strong indeed but :

a) it’s an autoattack – engineer got the weakest autoattacks for sure, but even with other classes autoattack is not enougth to kill anyone. How can it be OP then?
b) it has aftercast. At real you it every 0.8 seconds means 2,5 autoattacks in 2 seconds until the first bleeding disapears. Means 2,5 bleedings on average per attacker. Grenades with 15% chance on explosions give you a chance of 45% at all for a 12 (+ at least 30% condition duration minimum) second bleeding. Combined with grenades #2 and the other options to stack up bleeding engineer does more then mesmer.

use elixir gun (it has a 0.25 cast time on the auto underwater) and elixir U under water, with your typical condition build stacking 8 bleeds a second is easy pie not to mention traits like ip, also throwing down toss elixir U, if you get the reflect wall you will kill anything and the smoke wall you wont take damage, you don’t have to worry about anything you will stack conditions faster then anything else and physical damage does nothing due to the amount of weakness you keep on them.

Forestnator.6298:

I was called fanboy in another thread where some engineers cried about how weak harppon gun is. This just showed me up how weak a big part of the community plays. I am not afraid about a nerf because most engineers will need years or will never get behind how strong engineer is underwater. Au contraier they tell you they avoid underwater combat because they feel so weak.

The fact that immediatly a guy shows up and tells us mesmer is more op confirms this. Mesmer is strong underwater but sucks hard compared with engi.

while I agree that engineer is extremely strong underwater a good condition mesmer is at least just as good. nothing else comes close, except for ele but for different reasons (4 or 5 easily cast cc abilities).

In general mesmer really is stronger underwater. That being said engineer feels good under water but not OP. Every class can run from us lol. There is not real point going down the list end of story is any competent player is going to get away. You know what lets go down the list.

Harpoon gun

1. Mediocre damage.
2. great skill only in melee range though. Suffers hte same issue as grenades at range wide spread and slow moving.
3. Great for controlling players. However, it movres you away fro mthe target so if it misses the pull you just created more of a gap (can be good in running but sually is not).
4. Great skill. fast moving works in both types of builds.
5. great defensively but offensively is generally lack luster. the projectile is slow moving and unless the players swims into it on their own it can be made useless just by having your opponent pay attention.

that not evne getting into the kits, but admittedly besides nades (spread too wide, projectiles too slow on auto attack) the rest of the kits are “ok” under water but not OP.

This and this are nearly OP underwater. Siren’s Call in a condi build is nearly OP and we do not have much to counter it.

TheGuy.3568:

Siren’s Call in a condi build is nearly OP and we do not have much to counter it.

What i do is instantly use double dodge or Mirror Images if i have it and then someone a Confusion Phantasm – the damage from all the stacking conditions is insane.

I have the Superior Earth sigil as well as the Illusions cause bleeding trait combined with 2 clones spamming it and me using it and other skills that is ALOT.

I think Engi get stronger when NOT using Harpoon gun, i find it to be a pretty weak weapon in water, the others like EG and riffle turret are ALOT stronger.

TheGuy.3568:

In general mesmer really is stronger underwater. That being said engineer feels good under water but not OP. Every class can run from us lol. There is not real point going down the list end of story is any competent player is going to get away. You know what lets go down the list.

Harpoon gun

1. Mediocre damage.
2. great skill only in melee range though. Suffers hte same issue as grenades at range wide spread and slow moving.
3. Great for controlling players. However, it movres you away fro mthe target so if it misses the pull you just created more of a gap (can be good in running but sually is not).
4. Great skill. fast moving works in both types of builds.
5. great defensively but offensively is generally lack luster. the projectile is slow moving and unless the players swims into it on their own it can be made useless just by having your opponent pay attention.

that not evne getting into the kits, but admittedly besides nades (spread too wide, projectiles too slow on auto attack) the rest of the kits are “ok” under water but not OP.

This and this are nearly OP underwater. Siren’s Call in a condi build is nearly OP and we do not have much to counter it.

I definitly agree with some points of you. Every class can run from us lol. <— Yes!
Harpoon gun is not OP indeed. It is a strong weapon not regarding autoattack (as always for engineers) but also very counterable while mesmers trident#1 is hard avoid. This bounces make it easy to hit for mesmer. But to compare engineer u must go into kits.

Grenades are strong in melee /mid range. Nothing new, on land grenades are also mid /close range where they excel. EG autoattack is strong as already said in this thread. Bombs profit from the third dimension as aoe used to under water. Also EG#4 and #5 do. Turrets are more useful underwater because they don’t melt in random AoE so much (third dimension again). Not advising to use turrets now lol but supply crate is already a good elite on land. Underwater it gives us a rocket turret instead of flameturret which is an improvement in my opinion.

I agree on a few of these points while disagreeing on others

a) #5 on the harpoon gun moves faster than enemies by quite a bit when their in combat, I know I generally only use it to set up bursts
b) #2 harpoon gun yes it isn’t as great from a distance that’s why you maximize its effectiveness by using it in melee

These were the main ones that I was talking about being great

c) yes I understand that Mesmer, Ranger, and Engineer are all very good underwater, I have one of every class at 80. This all being said maybe the only reason I feel it is overpowered is because I main an engineer and generally wont lose underwater unless it is 4+v1

d) yes the spread on grenades is ridiculous how far off they can be. (I still usually use elixir U, grenade kit, and tool kit underwater…sometimes toolkit gets switched out)
e) is there any other class besides engineer, mesmers, and rangers again that has a reflect underwater (I believe the rangers have a reflect through the reef drake’s underwater skill).

@Infamous Darkness

Honestly Warrior, ranger, mesmer, necro (especially power builds), and guardian are good underwater. Ele is a cc monster but that is about it. Thief (and of people do not get this) Is not great at under water combat but harpoon gun 5 is likely the best underwater movement skill in the game.

I am going to say this as honestly as possible. Most people lose in underwater combat because they rarely need to use underwater combat. I would drag people back when I mained a warrior to water and destroy them because no one really knows what they are doing there. Same with engineer. I literally drag people into the water drop all my nades and bombs DPS with nigh a response. the funny thing is if you play against and engineer underwater you realize it is all melee. Once your 900 out their is little any engineer can do to stop you. Most of the time under water when you are winning 1vx it is likely because the other player does not know when to pull back. It is not even Op because the very simple counter is to just move away.

lol thief spear 2 is pretty strong. basically like a s/d build that costs way less initiative.

I just don’t like the auto attack. It must be the worst auto attack in the game, I can’t think of anything else nearly as bad. I would use FT auto attack underwater 10 times out of 10 in place of the harpoon gun’s auto.

Skills 2-5 all have their uses, I don’t mind them. What I do mind is that our main weapon turns into nothing more than a utility underwater while we’re relegated to finding our favorite kit to use as the main weapon.

the harpoon gun isn’t terrible for pve. i usually crit 4-5k with it and that’s an auto attack.

ellesee.8297:

the harpoon gun isn’t terrible for pve. i usually crit 4-5k with it and that’s an auto attack.

Are you sure? I’ve never had it do more damage than the rifle does with its auto attack (around 2k give or take with Zerker), and it moves half as fast which is why I hate it so much.

Adamantium.3682:

I just don’t like the auto attack. It must be the worst auto attack in the game, I can’t think of anything else nearly as bad. I would use FT auto attack underwater 10 times out of 10 in place of the harpoon gun’s auto.

Skills 2-5 all have their uses, I don’t mind them. What I do mind is that our main weapon turns into nothing more than a utility underwater while we’re relegated to finding our favorite kit to use as the main weapon.

Isn’t that the same on land lol.

Adamantium.3682:

Are you sure? I’ve never had it do more damage than the rifle does with its auto attack (around 2k give or take with Zerker), and it moves half as fast which is why I hate it so much.

well i had 25 might and the jellyfish boss had 25 vulnerability but it’s pve. i was also traited for the speargun because at the time i was running a FT/SD build and obviously the FT can’t be used underwater. the projectile speed shouldn’t really matter that much in pve but yes i agree in any pvp/wvwvw setting it’s garbage.

TheGuy.3568:

Adamantium.3682:

I just don’t like the auto attack. It must be the worst auto attack in the game, I can’t think of anything else nearly as bad. I would use FT auto attack underwater 10 times out of 10 in place of the harpoon gun’s auto.

Skills 2-5 all have their uses, I don’t mind them. What I do mind is that our main weapon turns into nothing more than a utility underwater while we’re relegated to finding our favorite kit to use as the main weapon.

Isn’t that the same on land lol.

Not at all for rifle, I can see people complaining about pistol but I’m fine with it. It’s not great, but it does what I expect from an auto attack. A little bit longer bleed would be welcome so it would stack just a bit better, but I don’t really have a problem with it. Maybe because I slot Coated Bullets a lot.

Neither are even close to the league of terribleness that is the harpoon gun.

Adamantium.3682:

Not at all for rifle, I can see people complaining about pistol but I’m fine with it. It’s not great, but it does what I expect from an auto attack. A little bit longer bleed would be welcome so it would stack just a bit better, but I don’t really have a problem with it. Maybe because I slot Coated Bullets a lot.

Neither are even close to the league of terribleness that is the harpoon gun.

I agree, i think the Pistol with Coated Bullets is pretty solid, It would be nice if the the bleeding would stack with the multiple explosions from Coated Bullets into groups but i think that would be a bit over powered. Though a .5second increase to bleeding duration would be nice just to make it that bit easier to stack it

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

In my opinion, Mesmer is far stronger under water. Sirens Call is VERY overpowered. Combine that with several clones all casting the same thing and thats like 3+ stacks of bleeding every .5seconds and combine that with traits and sigils that is ALOT of bleeding on its own.

Then you have the Phantasm with its 5 stacks of confusion and all the utilities they have on offer.

Bleeding was cut in half, Phantasm isn’t 5 stacks. :P

What, engineer is good no wait, overpowered underwater? My god, who on earth have you been fighting that gave you that idea?

People lose because they suck at underwater combat because they never do it. And they never do it because underwater combat itself sucks.

Its the underwater equivelant of the 100b zerker warrior. Only much easier to avoid.

I have lots of under combat experience. Engineer is good underwater, but I would argue that e.g. ranger and warrior are even better. Necro and mesmer are also strong contenders underwater. Many of those attacks with the original poster calls “overpowered” are in fact very easy to dodge or even just kite from distance. Granted bad players will die quickly to them, but then similarly you could do insta gib enemies with zerker warrior underwater.

Please see my long post about the relative strengths and weaknesses of each profession underwater:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/sPvP-Underwater-Class-Tier-List/first#post2902943