Guild Wars 2

I love my engi, so dont get this wrong, but who had the bright idea to give us a downed skill which makes it easier for the enemy to finish us off in PVP by shortening their way towards us? When I look at thief or mesmer, where people have to really put some efforts into it to be able to finish them off, we have: you are down, you are dead lol. Skill 3 is nice, but 95% of the time it is not yet available because of its cooldown. Skill 2 gives us 1 second more time by putting the enemy on his back, but at the same time pulling him right into a finishing position.

Worst ingame? I dont know. Worst interupt out of all downed states? Yes, without a doubt.

Only use skill 2 if the enemy is right on top of you. But ye, its pretty bad I agree. But its more a case of some classes have overpowered downed states imop, engineer is about right. Thief is stupid, it takes 3 attempts to down them each time, and don’t get me started on eles.

At least we have an interrupt, (two if you count the 3rd) – some classes don’t even get one! They just have to hope the enemy is stupid not to know where they went lol.

Worst downed state skill? NOBODY suffers like the thief in that aspect. A downed thief is under most circumstances, a dead thief.

Synesence.7546:

Worst downed state skill? NOBODY suffers like the thief in that aspect. A downed thief is under most circumstances, a dead thief.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Trail_of_Knives
1. hits up to 3 targets and criples

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Escape
2. teleports thiefs away from harm if used right

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Smoke_Bomb_
3. stealths

Engineer

2. pull enemy and die
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grappling_Line

3. knockback enemy for a second and die IF you are even lucky to have its cooldown loaded
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Booby_Trap

so how does your thief suffer basically a non thief would have to attempt to stomp the thief 3 times before being successful at it

where as engi only have 1 interrupt wich happens to be a pull

Synesence.7546:

Worst downed state skill? NOBODY suffers like the thief in that aspect. A downed thief is under most circumstances, a dead thief.

Thief: Spam #1 profit
Engi: Spam #1 cry

Drakeonfire.1569:

At least we have an interrupt, (two if you count the 3rd) – some classes don’t even get one! They just have to hope the enemy is stupid not to know where they went lol.

lets compare our interrupt to other skills:

engi interrupt pulls the enemy wich results most of the time in aiding our stomp

vs

Necros steal hp with auto attack and have a fear

Rangers have an interrupt and super pet heal

guardians have an aoe knock back and a heal over time ring wich gets em up fst if number 4 skill isnt interrupte

warriors have a knockdown hammer and revive temporaryly with number 3 wich a 50% chance of stayin alive if kill the target 100% if traited

mesmers confuse with downed auto and can pop in a clone decoy as well as summon a killler clone that for some reason deals massive damage

Elementalists have vapor form and a 10s cooldown immobilize

how is a 1s interrupt and pull enemy to you better for you ?

Legit Prep In.5893:

I love my engi, so dont get this wrong, but who had the bright idea to give us a downed skill which makes it easier for the enemy to finish us off in PVP by shortening their way towards us?

Either the same person who gave us a PBAoE #3, or someone fixing his mistakes. The pull is stupid, but it is sort of necessary.

I don’t think Engi’s downed #2 is a problem.

- It doesn’t make you easier to finish by “shortening their way towards” you because it’s not like Engi’s can kite/move while downed anyway.
- Having a way to interrupt a stomp is nothing to scoff at.
- It chains together very well with the #3.

What does bother me about Engi’s downed state though is that you’re very vulnerable to body-blocking (#1 and #2 are neither piercing nor AoE). I think it would be nice if #1 could “explode” in a small AoE around your target.

It makes it easier cause by pulling them in your position, they’re already above you and can stomp you immediatly, so you won’t even be able to actually charge your third skill.
Basically, whereas other classes’ downed skills may buy them some seconds, ours make us even more in danger.

Engy down state only sucks (relatively) in 1 on 1.

There is more to life in gw2 than hot-join, dueling servers and WvWW.. thank god anet knows this when they balance things.

Skill #2 is pretty good at helping control fights and prolong things when downed. But, as usual on this forum, I doubt anyone is thinking in a ‘WE’ context..

Their are two changes i would like to see that would make our down state not suck.

1: Reduce the cooldown on our #3 skill. That way we can pull people to us then explode which would make more sense.
2: Make always prepared more useful. This trait is still crap. whats the point of dropping bandages if we cant pick them up. How about we drop Elixir R instead.

Engineers have the worst downed skills, PERIOD.

I pretty much play with the mindset that I have to avoid downing at all costs, because once I go down and nobody rezzing, I’m already dead.

Manuhell.2759:

It makes it easier cause by pulling them in your position, they’re already above you and can stomp you immediatly, so you won’t even be able to actually charge your third skill.
Basically, whereas other classes’ downed skills may buy them some seconds, ours make us even more in danger.

I won’t argue that the pull isn’t bad, but it only does what you describe if you use it stupidly. It’s a pull and a stun, if you’re not using it to stop a stomp or pull someone close to use #3, then don’t use it.

And if you use it to stop a stomp, you’ll get stomped anyway. Because any decent opponent is aware of our liability, thus they’ll stomp us as soon as we’re downed. Whereas other classes can gain time in other, better ways (be it making the opponent move with fears or knockbacks or having ways of moving themselves).

Synesence.7546:

Worst downed state skill? NOBODY suffers like the thief in that aspect. A downed thief is under most circumstances, a dead thief.

Stop it.

Someone complaining about thief downed state? thats new. Or are we being ironic?

All downed states are just delaying tactics, with a few exceptions. Thieves almost guarantees at least skipping the first stomp by any number so its pretty good.

Just went back and tried the Engineer…

Ignore what I said earlier, Engis got it pretty bad.

Necro has the worst downed abilities IMO, but we are a close 2nd.

The #1 isn’t bad except that in situations where there are a lot of ppl it never hits who you want it too. I was hoping the new weakness would make it better, but I see no difference so far.

The #2 is usually just a slight delay to a stomp (when they don’t use quickness, stability, stealth, etc.) same as rangers and others. I have put it too good use in group situations though, where I can pull an escaping person back into the fray and try for a kill revive or pull an enemy off a wall or siege to help my group. In PvE I’ll pull the low hp mob to me so that group members hopefully target it and I can get a kill revive. (The VAST majority of the time though… I am useless when downed for myself or team)>

The #3 is really nice. It’s an AoE knock-back like the Guardians, but with big dmg numbers. The problem… it’s on #3… and there-fore you can rarely if ever actually use it. Most have a “heal” or “defense” type ability here and we get a second interrupt if they aren’t using stability, quickness, shrink, invulnerable, etc. There have been a few times I was able to use it near a ledge and get a kill revive from someone falling to their death, but it is sooo extremely rare to ever live long enough to see it up (I usually die spamming #3 just a split second before it’s up).

My suggestions:
#1: Pierce or very small radius AE explosion.
#2: It would be nice if it “pierced” to your target and/or hit people even if they were stealth/invisible.
#3: Drops a turret on top of you that does AE heal or regen that effects allies and not the engineer. The turret has to be destroyed before Engineer takes dmg or gets /stomped. It would have crappy hit points (like most turrets lol), but when it dies it does the AoE knock-back.

My 2 cents… :p

i wish they would just remove the downed state from wvw tbh pve it’s fine and I don’t know about spvp i don’t play that mode

Terrahero.9358:

Worst ingame? I dont know. Worst interupt out of all downed states? Yes, without a doubt.

Pretty sure the warrior one is a lot worse. Lower effective range, a lot slower projectile; pull is usually better than a knockdown.

On the contrary, #2 is amazing. You guys just dont understand how to get the most out of it. Use it instantly when downed, to help your opponent out to get you back on the field faster!

Engineer downed state is definitely the worst between Necromancer, Engineer, Elementalist and Ranger, in my experience. It’s intended to have some kind of synergy between #2 and #3 skills, I think, but the massive cooldown on #3 prevents it. Where the other classes stand a fair chance at getting back up if they go down, at least in PvE (I’ve only taken my Engineer into WvW, and…well, I gotta say, it wouldn’t be hard to outdo his downed skills in that arena, either), Engineer dies reliably enough once downed that I wish they’d put in a #5 skill for killing yourself to respawn without having to bleed out.

Reasons the other classes work better while downed:
Necromancer siphons health with the autoattack, inflicts fear with the second attack, and has the only skill I’ve ever gotten a post-respawn kill with on #3.

Ranger can keep popping back up by simply calling the pet over to pick them up – I’ve been able to abuse that to the point that I kept popping back up every time I went down (it was an area I was underleveled for) until I went straight past downed to dead.

Elementalists can inflict Vulnerability, Bleed and Immobilize, and if that’s not good enough, they can get a moment’s respite by Mist Forming away.

Then there’s the Engineer:

1. - RNG on a downed skill to either slow your enemy, deal damage, or make their attacks a bit weaker? Great idea. How about give two effects and ditch the last?
2. - Knock and/or drag an enemy over on a 10-second cooldown. Knockdown? Sure. Pull? That’s a bad idea, especially given that…
3. - …the blowout is on a 20-second cooldown. Deals, uh, decent damage, I guess, though. And it’s a blast finisher! Hopefully somebody will have placed a combo field on you.

Overall, I honestly get the feeling the Engineer’s downed state was designed with the idea that it was a support class, and thus would always be hanging around with allies, while the other classes I’ve mentioned can generally handle just fine on their own.
Do I evaluate downed states on their performance solo more than in groups? Yes. If I’ve gone down, and I’m in a group, the rest of the group is usually in a bad situation to begin with and won’t likely have time to pick me up.
Again, most of my experience is in PvE, and, of course, this is all my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt if it’s warranted.

Eng downed state is total rubbish.

1 hits like a wet noodle. Good luck killing anything with this to rally off of.

2… SMH… Please change 2 to a skill where I blow myself up 100 feet into the air so I can just die from fall damage and save myself the repair costs. I would prefer this to pulling a single target closer.

3 isn’t bad tbh… it’s a aoe blowout… like guardian’s #2… but on a 20s cooldown…

Eng being a good support class is NO excuse for this trash. Ele’s can also be a good support class… and yet they get by far the best downed state in the game.

My pal plays a Necro… he complains about his downed state some times… then I point out I’m on my Eng… and he laughs and stops complaining. That’s how bad it is.

Using skill #2 to set up the #3 explosion makes sense… but only if the bomb had zero cooldown, so it would be immediately available. Which it doesn’t.

The best scenario I’ve found is if your enemy has to run over to stomp from ~1000 range, AND you time #2 correctly to interrupt right when the enemy’s stomp is about to land (for maximum do-over time), AND you spam the #3 hotkey…

assuming they don’t block either of your attacks…
assuming they didn’t instantly stomp the first time…
assuming they don’t have quickness, or stealth, or stability, or aegis…
assuming your attack doesn’t just randomly miss…
assuming there is a single enemy instead of 2…

…then you might get the bomb to explode in the last 1-2 frames of their second stomp animation. Maybe.

And then you’re helplessly dead once they get up because you had 0 time to heal with skill #4.

Easy fix: make the #3 bomb usable immediately, just like the #2 pull wire. It can keep the longer cooldown, as long as it’s available within 1 or 2 seconds of going into downed state.

Totally agree, eng is bad for downed states.

I have a question, when was the last time you successfully used 3 in pvp?
just curious

I would like to start by saying the engineer down state needs a significant buff to compete with the other professions, as an adventure class it would prove useful to be able to move or rez faster on our #2 skill instead of a…pull. Sure its an interrupt but if anything stands in line of sight its blocked and our #3 down state ability is on too long of a cooldown to be used in time to save ourselves, I recommend reducing it by 3 seconds. Our number one is terrible on anything other than a condition build as well and would like if its buffed to match a different play style. Thanks.

Engineer downstate needs complete re-work immediately, other professions have a chance to rally, escape, or self rez. We got #1 throw junk o.0, #2 scorpion wire pull plz kill me faster; might interrupt if not LOS, blocked, blinded. #3 Two percent chance to aoe knockback before i die ability.

Enough is enough!

I don’t even bother to fight when I get downed. In over 250 hours of WvW engineer I maybe got once or twice rallied alone.

I agree, this is probably the worst downed skill…

A-net, please make this #2 skill able to pierce through ennemies…
We just can’t do anything against a Ranger.
If his pet is between us (which happens most of the time), we can’t even interrup him. Without stealth/stab/quickness, it shouldn’t be so easy to finish someone !

Downed states ae utterly unbalanced.

At the very top you have the Thief, Mesmer and Elementalist. I’d say Mesmer slightly below both of these simply because if the target is in Stealth he cannot use his interupt (2# skill).
However, these 3 professions have the best ways to avoid a stomp and are not affected by Blind, Stability, Aegis, how many targets are stomping, LoS. None of that.

Then we get the Guardian. AoE interupt meaning he can interupt 5 targets, and doesnt need a target so it works on stealthed targets aswell. However, it fails if he is Blinded or if the stomper(s) haev Stability, Aegis. LoS isnt a factor.

Then the Ranger, slightly worst then Guardian simply because he needs a Target. So his wont work if there is no visible target. But, it is an AoE interupt and LoS isnt a factor.

Then we have Nercro. Single-target, affacted by Stability, Blind, all that stuff. Bt not LoS, a pet cannot bodyblock the Fear for example.

And bottomrang we have Warrior and Engineer. Single target, projectile based, interupt. Affacted by LoS, Stability, Blind, Aegis and goodluck hitting an invisible target.

As far as interupts go there is a very clear hiarchy from highly reliable, to situation and easy to counter.
The downed state is a gameplay situation where each profession only really has 3 abilities (the 4th is universal), there is no room to balance out such radical differences with what few other variables there are.

Altough things like damage and survivability are also very lobsides towards the same professions we see win at Interupt are also the ones with the most damage. And being able to move means you can move closer to allies or atleast out of the heat of the battle and avoid some of the AoE cleaving.
Offering these same professions beter chances of not dying.

LoL. L2p engi then QQ xD

Our Downed skills, are one of the best to survive while other trying to ress us / buying time.
1. Cool dmg
2. Great long interupt. If u cast it in last sec, u would be able to cast your 3 spell.
3. AoE knock back. Meh
After 3 we got again 2 up

terrahero summed it up pretty well.

I’d consider necro having it worse than engies and warriors because the number 2 skill has a very long wind up and the #3 skill is lacking. also warrior #3 can change some fights around and engie #3 is very good when we actually get to use it.

Terrahero.9358:

The downed state is a gameplay situation where each profession only really has 3 abilities (the 4th is universal), there is no room to balance out such radical differences with what few other variables there are.

And yet I hope they never change the basic skills, just the numbers on them. I hate it when class uniqueness is lost for the same of 1-to-1 PvP balance, because honestly if I want a balanced smallscale game I wouldn’t play a MMO in the first place.

What I want is interesting abilities, I want Elite skills to be really overpowered after a balance pass, I want downed skills which really reflect the class, I want classes so incomparable the sPvP crowd fails to even establish how to rate 1v1.

For Engineer though, I can see some don’t make sense. I would have thought their downed stats includes 1 turret at least. And potentially 1 kit which changes the other downed skills to another set of actions. The downed skills seem to not truly be connected to the class. :S

Carighan.6758:

Terrahero.9358:

The downed state is a gameplay situation where each profession only really has 3 abilities (the 4th is universal), there is no room to balance out such radical differences with what few other variables there are.

And yet I hope they never change the basic skills, just the numbers on them. I hate it when class uniqueness is lost for the same of 1-to-1 PvP balance, because honestly if I want a balanced smallscale game I wouldn’t play a MMO in the first place.

What I want is interesting abilities, I want Elite skills to be really overpowered after a balance pass, I want downed skills which really reflect the class, I want classes so incomparable the sPvP crowd fails to even establish how to rate 1v1.

For Engineer though, I can see some don’t make sense. I would have thought their downed stats includes 1 turret at least. And potentially 1 kit which changes the other downed skills to another set of actions. The downed skills seem to not truly be connected to the class. :S

They can always add in the class sort of flavor while the skill itself still doing the desired effect. Say… an eng uses something like rocket boots to blast himself away from a stomp. This would be similar to the other classes move away skills while still being very eng like.

I think it’s funny that people are still complaining about this when we’ve already had almost a year to realize how bad pretty much every other class has it. The guardian is probably the only class with a better anti-stomp ability, and it only has one while engineers have two.

Synesence.7546:

Worst downed state skill? NOBODY suffers like the thief in that aspect. A downed thief is under most circumstances, a dead thief.

Haha good one. I saw a thief downed after a long combat with multiple people, going perma invisible, porting around (while downed) and a moment later running away at full health He did all that while downed. Soon thieves will be able to solo SM while downed I do suspect some of the thieves out there are hacking, hard to explain the insane difference between the usual thief, that can be killed and the ultra dps, tanky, perma stealth ones with insane mobility.

Engineer downed skills are just horrid. 2 isn’t helping at all, and 3 is a joke – going out with a bang, I guess the devs thought it would be funny, but really isn’t. Why don’t we have a rocket boots jump towards a destination as skill 3 is beyond me. That way we could at least jump into keep portals like the mist form. And skill 2 should be merged with shill 3, pull in first, then explode with a knockback.

Aberrant.6749:

They can always add in the class sort of flavor while the skill itself still doing the desired effect. Say… an eng uses something like rocket boots to blast himself away from a stomp. This would be similar to the other classes move away skills while still being very eng like.

Hrm, I would prefer something like a “Bomb Kit” for downed then, which gives me 3 new skills. One creates a blinding cloud, one blows people away, one blows myself away while doing some damage.

Hello, I am a warrior I throw rocks and a hammer that misses 80% of the time. My vengeance is crap too, because everyone just ignores me. I have no friends =(.

Warrior has the worst down state, thank you very much.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I think it’s funny that people are still complaining about this when we’ve already had almost a year to realize how bad pretty much every other class has it. The guardian is probably the only class with a better anti-stomp ability, and it only has one while engineers have two.

I play every profession, i enjoy playing alts.

And Engineer has far out the worst downed state in terms of survivability, stomp evading and damage.
So there you go, i have used the 10months of Gw2 to find out exactly how good other professions have it.

Honestly, I don’t see the Engineer state as critically inferior. It has two issues IMO:

1. The windup on the Blast.
2. The lack of proper engi-feeling on 2 and 1.

But really, while some others are better for avoiding stomps, a few observations come to mind:

• The difference isn’t all that large if you look at all classes, not only at 1-2 which need a nerf.
• Those 1-2 might not actually have such a strong downed state once you stop considering PvP the only game mode.
• The “weaker” downed states might not actually be all that weapon once you stop considering Pvp the only game mode.

Is Engineer downed super-strong? Hrm, no. But it’s not a baaaaad. Or rather, not as bad as people try to make it out to be.

A few examples of how misleading PvP-based judgement is:

• Elementalist Mist Form is generally seen as the premier number one no comparables at all 2-move in WvW. It allows suicide runs without the suicide. However in PvE, especially solo outside PvE, it’s nearly useless because it rarely gets you to a safe spot.
• Vengeance on Warriors is seen as close to the worst downed skill in sPvP (and no, Engineer 2 doesn’t even begin to get close :P ) but is ok-ish in WvW, and actually really really powerful with Sweet Vengeance in open world PvE.
• Mesmer 2 is seen as powerful in sPvP and quite ok in PvE, but it is close to useless in WvW.

This all means two things. One, we need more skills split between sPvP, WvW and PvE. Second, independent of that we need to stop crying before we considered the game mode(s) we don’t play.

Naustis.8510:

LoL. L2p engi then QQ xD

Our Downed skills, are one of the best to survive while other trying to ress us / buying time.
1. Cool dmg
2. Great long interupt. If u cast it in last sec, u would be able to cast your 3 spell.
3. AoE knock back. Meh
After 3 we got again 2 up

Haha I love a good joke! But seriously it is not possible to pull off #3 down state even if you get Chill on your opponent with #1 and wait for the last approximate moment where your #2 projectile pulls them at the very last frame of their stomp. You will Still be unable to finish the activation time of #3.

This is of course coming from a high end competitive tPvP perspective. Where you and your opponents have played every profession and are aware of their downed state mechanics. Some professions have it tough if not yet impossible to prevent stomps in certain match ups, but Engineers are in a tough spot regardless. If you get pulled by the Hook you must of been distracted, or he used it the moment he went down so you could kill him faster

Wolf, tPvP. tPvP is a tiny portion of the game, unless whatever change comes to downed states (in general, not just for Engineers) is tPvP-only and the rest of the game gets a separate look, I don’t think the niche-balancing would be making things better.
The very basic difference in how people get killed from downed between tPvP and WvW and PvE already requires a completely different approach in evaluating the use of the various skills.

For example if Elementalist #2 is nerfed for WvW reasons, that’d make PvEing Eles who get downed really happy, I believe!

Carighan.6758:

Honestly, I don’t see the Engineer state as critically inferior. It has two issues IMO:

1. The windup on the Blast.
2. The lack of proper engi-feeling on 2 and 1.

But really, while some others are better for avoiding stomps, a few observations come to mind:

• The difference isn’t all that large if you look at all classes, not only at 1-2 which need a nerf.
• Those 1-2 might not actually have such a strong downed state once you stop considering PvP the only game mode.
• The “weaker” downed states might not actually be all that weapon once you stop considering Pvp the only game mode.

Is Engineer downed super-strong? Hrm, no. But it’s not a baaaaad. Or rather, not as bad as people try to make it out to be.

A few examples of how misleading PvP-based judgement is:

• Elementalist Mist Form is generally seen as the premier number one no comparables at all 2-move in WvW. It allows suicide runs without the suicide. However in PvE, especially solo outside PvE, it’s nearly useless because it rarely gets you to a safe spot.
• Vengeance on Warriors is seen as close to the worst downed skill in sPvP (and no, Engineer 2 doesn’t even begin to get close :P ) but is ok-ish in WvW, and actually really really powerful with Sweet Vengeance in open world PvE.
• Mesmer 2 is seen as powerful in sPvP and quite ok in PvE, but it is close to useless in WvW.

This all means two things. One, we need more skills split between sPvP, WvW and PvE. Second, independent of that we need to stop crying before we considered the game mode(s) we don’t play.

There are things here i strongly disagree with.

Difference is huge. We’re going down from 3 professions that can avoid infinite simultaneous stomps regardless of stability, blind, aegis, los, anything.
To some professions that can do AoE interupts. (5player cap)
To professions that can only interupt 1 enemy, provided blind or stability or los or stealth or aegis isnt an issue.

Those professions that are at the top do have a better downed state, even in pve and even in wvw. Especially in WvW even.
And the weaker ones are still much weaker in PvE. Hmm, what to pick, pulling 1 pve mob towards me where he will just beat on me aswell. Oooor, teleporting out of the AoE and getting Stealth so stuff stops beating on me for a little while. Wow, thats a hard call to make…

How is being able to get up and run away from an AoE and/or close to allies or possibly outrange the mobs leash while also being immune to all damage suddenly bad?
Thats absolutely one of the better PvE downed abilities aswell as being simply the best WvW downed ability. Saved my kitten a whole lot more in pve then Engineer’s 2 ever did.

How on earth is Vengeance useless? you’re about to die, and in a close fight you get to do a comeback and kill the other guy or contest a node longer till allies arive. And if you get a kill, you might just get to keep on fighting.

And how on earth can you tell me that Mesmer 2 is useless in WvW? If that is what you consider useless you must have invented a new word to describe the downed state of Guardian, Ranger, Warrior, Necro and Engineer.
Among the hardest hitting downed states, aswell as an evade that doesnt care one bit about things that do affect all the lesser downed states. And a hardhitting nuke, while also getting the benefit of not losing your phantasm’s that also keep wailing on people.

Naustis.8510:

LoL. L2p engi then QQ xD

Our Downed skills, are one of the best to survive while other trying to ress us / buying time.
1. Cool dmg
2. Great long interupt. If u cast it in last sec, u would be able to cast your 3 spell.
3. AoE knock back. Meh
After 3 we got again 2 up

+1 to that
Seems only a few actually know how to take advantage of engi skills, no wonder we are so understimated.

I must be clueless too because Engineer down state is horrible and = almost certain death.

Why in the world do I want to pull my enemy right next to me? Who else does this? Ridiculous.

Throw junk? More like spit at my enemy based on the amount of damage. If you thought Engie DPS was bad while you were on both feet, just wait until you are on your back.

And booby trap? Please.. way too long to activate and then very lackluster if you ever get a chance to get it off. Which is usually not that often. You are already 5 and a half feet in the ground by the time you get to use this skill.

It’s an interrupt… People who complain about it being a pull are completely clueless. It’s a single target interrupt. It’ll stop a single target’s stomp attempt if they’re not running stability. Same as a Necro’s fear or Warrior’s hammer toss. The fact that it pulls them to you is of very little relevance. If they had stability (or anything stronger) you’re dead. If nobody came to your help by then, you’re dead. If anything it buys you 1 less second extra, at most. Hardly a gigantic deal, especially given that you also have a very strong AoE knock back, albeit on a long cooldown so you rarely get to use it.

Synesence.7546:

Worst downed state skill? NOBODY suffers like the thief in that aspect. A downed thief is under most circumstances, a dead thief.

Can’t tell if you’re a troll or legitimately clueless…

Thieves have one of the strongest downstates in the game… 1 displacement, 1 skill that breaks targeting, and the strongest (or second strongest depending on mesmer’s spec) hitting #1 in the game (strongest by far if you consider the bouncing and ability to multi-tag for rally purposes).

Maybe it has some use in PVP. There seems to be some wisdom in the interrupt logic here.

But in PVE and WVW, pretty useless. It might be more useful if the cooldown on #3 wasn’t so long.

Engineer has the worst downed skills in the game from WvWvW point of view. Skill #2 often fails to connect due small bumps on the floor or other LoS issues.

Everytime I see a downed enemy engineer, he has died.

Terrahero.9358:

And how on earth can you tell me that Mesmer 2 is useless in WvW? If that is what you consider useless you must have invented a new word to describe the downed state of Guardian, Ranger, Warrior, Necro and Engineer.

Hrm, maybe if you do duels on an orb altar. It doesn’t teleport you out of AEs (range is too short), plus it’s random nature means in 50% of cases you are now closer or inside the enemy group.
Coupled with the fact that the game points out the real of the two with a floaty icon, and you got an ability which was “ok”. Random, but strong if it works because you could put out a fair amount of damage with the clone’s help. Then came the WvW confusion nerf, and now #1 is largely ignorable in damage, and with it sank #2.

It’s not a useless skill at all – that’s my point exactly – but neither is Engineer #2. Playing both, I find the Engineer #3 stronger than the Mesmer’s for ~all situations, the #2 so/so. It’s not really any worse than the Mesmer one either (stomp-avoidance is rarely useful in WvW since enemies just kill, but you can drag someone else closer to your group so they get a kill for you to rally from), or rather, neither of them is impressive compared to WvW beasts such as Thief 2 or Elementalist 2.