Guild Wars 2

Anyone know how they compare? I know earth is supposed to be best, but I’m just curious the comparison and how it was done?

The problem with bursting, is its 6% of the condition damage stat, not a 6% modifier.

It’s going to depend on the class, and build, but the ~5 stacks of bleeds is usually more additional dps than say.. 100-150 extra condi damage.

Just find the equilibrium @ 0.

Sigil of Earth produces 22 dps at zero condition damage.

So you need to produce 22 additional damage through Sigil Of Bursting. The formula for this is:

22 / .06 / .06.

That’s 6,111. So you need that much effective condition power to do better. It’s simply the base of damage gained ( 22/s ) divided by the coefficient to convert it into raw condition damage ( like terms ) and then find the equilibrium from Bursting ( six percent of six percent of a number ) and see what happens.

So Earth is if you have less than 6,111 condition damage.

Heya,

Bursting only boosts your BASE condition damage, not the final condi damage. So it’s even worse.

If you face a single target, use Geomancy and Earth, if you face multiple targets you should use Geomancy and Bursting, because Earth occasionaly will proc on adds and be a dps loss compared to Bursting.

If you ever see the opportunity to use Corruption, use that one instead!

Greez!
- Ziggy

Xyonon.3987:

Heya,

Bursting only boosts your BASE condition damage, not the final condi damage. So it’s even worse.

If you face a single target, use Geomancy and Earth, if you face multiple targets you should use Geomancy and Bursting, because Earth occasionaly will proc on adds and be a dps loss compared to Bursting.

If you ever see the opportunity to use Corruption, use that one instead!

Greez!
- Ziggy

Thanks, Yeah I realize Earth is good, we’re talking ~1k dps on paper. I was just thinking that the consistency of bursting was nice and why I was curious if anyone had any kind of calculated comparison to see what the loss is. What peaked my interest was seeing 10k confusion ticks popping up quite rapidly against some enemy I was fighting the other night, made me think that confusion may be underrated.

Xyonon.3987:

Heya,

Bursting only boosts your BASE condition damage, not the final condi damage. So it’s even worse.

Backwards. Bursting doesn’t boost the base and only boosts the final.

Runes of Berserker boost base ( 131.5 + .155 x Condition Damage ) x 1.05

Bursting boosts final 131.5 + ( .155 x Condition Damage x 1.06 ).

If you face a single target, use Geomancy and Earth, if you face multiple targets you should use Geomancy and Bursting, because Earth occasionaly will proc on adds and be a dps loss compared to Bursting.

If you ever see the opportunity to use Corruption, use that one instead!

Greez!
- Ziggy

At 2,500 condition damage bonus from Bursting is 150. 6% of that, bleed’s coefficient, is 9. It’s unlikely adding 9 to your Germany bleed for adds is a better move than using earth against the main considering 2,500 CD bleeds for 150 on its own.

It will always work out to a flat 6% due to design.

My Dire P/P Condi Engi has only a 15% add to Crit Chance. The Earth Sigil only proc’s (60% of the time) on Criticals — so I’d go with Burst. And Burst applies across all Condi.

Personally, I run with Smoldering and Agony Runes on my P/P build.

DGraves.3720:

Xyonon.3987:

Heya,

Bursting only boosts your BASE condition damage, not the final condi damage. So it’s even worse.

Backwards. Bursting doesn’t boost the base and only boosts the final.

Runes of Berserker boost base ( 131.5 + .155 x Condition Damage ) x 1.05

Bursting boosts final 131.5 + ( .155 x Condition Damage x 1.06 ).

If you face a single target, use Geomancy and Earth, if you face multiple targets you should use Geomancy and Bursting, because Earth occasionaly will proc on adds and be a dps loss compared to Bursting.

If you ever see the opportunity to use Corruption, use that one instead!

Greez!
- Ziggy

At 2,500 condition damage bonus from Bursting is 150. 6% of that, bleed’s coefficient, is 9. It’s unlikely adding 9 to your Germany bleed for adds is a better move than using earth against the main considering 2,500 CD bleeds for 150 on its own.

It will always work out to a flat 6% due to design.

Both posts you’ve made have a lot of numbers but I have no idea where they’re coming from. I like math, but like saying bleed’s coefficient is 9… no, no it’s not, it’s .06 with a base of 22, so the formula is [condition damage *.06 + 22]. I have a feeling you know what you’re talking about but it’s impossible to follow when the numbers aren’t being defined and at face value look to come from nowhere.

Jerus.4350:

DGraves.3720:

Xyonon.3987:

Heya,

Bursting only boosts your BASE condition damage, not the final condi damage. So it’s even worse.

Backwards. Bursting doesn’t boost the base and only boosts the final.

Runes of Berserker boost base ( 131.5 + .155 x Condition Damage ) x 1.05

Bursting boosts final 131.5 + ( .155 x Condition Damage x 1.06 ).

If you face a single target, use Geomancy and Earth, if you face multiple targets you should use Geomancy and Bursting, because Earth occasionaly will proc on adds and be a dps loss compared to Bursting.

If you ever see the opportunity to use Corruption, use that one instead!

Greez!
- Ziggy

At 2,500 condition damage bonus from Bursting is 150. 6% of that, bleed’s coefficient, is 9. It’s unlikely adding 9 to your Germany bleed for adds is a better move than using earth against the main considering 2,500 CD bleeds for 150 on its own.

It will always work out to a flat 6% due to design.

Both posts you’ve made have a lot of numbers but I have no idea where they’re coming from. I like math, but like saying bleed’s coefficient is 9… no, no it’s not, it’s .06 with a base of 22, so the formula is [condition damage *.06 + 22]. I have a feeling you know what you’re talking about but it’s impossible to follow when the numbers aren’t being defined and at face value look to come from nowhere.

Oh, no problem.

So let’s work with the sigil of bursting first.

So if we have equipment and all that which gives us 2,500 total condition damage then the sigil of bursting will add 6%. So 6% of 2,500 is 150.

Now we take the additional condition damage by itself ( that 150 ) and apply the bleed coefficient to get 6% of 150 or 9.

This is messy. The easiest way to do this is actually to just multiply .06 x (coefficient of condition) to get your answer. So for burning it would be .06 × .155 and for bleeding it’s .06 × .06 ( which, if you notice, is also .06^2, coincidence ) and then you have exactly what you will get from your sigil of bursting.

So .06 × .06 = .0036

2,500 × .0036 = 9

That is how much damage your bleeds would gain additionally from a sigil of bursting. I still wish it were cleaner. It’s a messy looking thing though it isn’t complicated, just messy.

The reason why we don’t take the 22 damage that is “free” is because base condition damage on a player character in the character panel with no equipment on and no traits is “0” so if you had that as the base sigil of bursting doesn’t do anything. It doesn’t effect that number is all.

“Six percent of six percent of a number equals 22.”

Let me explain the 6,111 while I’m at it.

So we know that the “free” damage of bleed is 22. We also know that the base character sheet condition damage is 0 without equipment or skills to boost it. What this means is that we can solve for 22 using the coefficients of both sigil of bursting and bleed in order to find the point where sigil or bursting equals a free bleed at zero condition damage (or adds 22 total damage to your bleeds).

The value of 22 / .06 / .06 or 22 / .0036 is that the 6,111 specifically relates to how much effective condition damage you would need for it to be better than one additional bleed from any other source. It would be worth more than a bleed. Same is true for any other condition, for instance, burning:

131.5 / .155 / .06 = 14,139 so at that amount of condition damage your burning from sigil of bursting would do 131.5 extra damage. Obviously that is impossible but it’s good for knowing how effective something is. So if there a sigil that allowed you to get burning on a critical strike it’s value is much greater than a sigil of bursting.

Blah blah I’m so boring.

DGraves.3720:

Jerus.4350:

DGraves.3720:

Xyonon.3987:

Heya,

Bursting only boosts your BASE condition damage, not the final condi damage. So it’s even worse.

Backwards. Bursting doesn’t boost the base and only boosts the final.

Runes of Berserker boost base ( 131.5 + .155 x Condition Damage ) x 1.05

Bursting boosts final 131.5 + ( .155 x Condition Damage x 1.06 ).

If you face a single target, use Geomancy and Earth, if you face multiple targets you should use Geomancy and Bursting, because Earth occasionaly will proc on adds and be a dps loss compared to Bursting.

If you ever see the opportunity to use Corruption, use that one instead!

Greez!
- Ziggy

At 2,500 condition damage bonus from Bursting is 150. 6% of that, bleed’s coefficient, is 9. It’s unlikely adding 9 to your Germany bleed for adds is a better move than using earth against the main considering 2,500 CD bleeds for 150 on its own.

It will always work out to a flat 6% due to design.

Both posts you’ve made have a lot of numbers but I have no idea where they’re coming from. I like math, but like saying bleed’s coefficient is 9… no, no it’s not, it’s .06 with a base of 22, so the formula is [condition damage *.06 + 22]. I have a feeling you know what you’re talking about but it’s impossible to follow when the numbers aren’t being defined and at face value look to come from nowhere.

Oh, no problem.

So let’s work with the sigil of bursting first.

So if we have equipment and all that which gives us 2,500 total condition damage then the sigil of bursting will add 6%. So 6% of 2,500 is 150.

Now we take the additional condition damage by itself ( that 150 ) and apply the bleed coefficient to get 6% of 150 or 9.

This is messy. The easiest way to do this is actually to just multiply .06 x (coefficient of condition) to get your answer. So for burning it would be .06 × .155 and for bleeding it’s .06 × .06 ( which, if you notice, is also .06^2, coincidence ) and then you have exactly what you will get from your sigil of bursting.

So .06 × .06 = .0036

2,500 × .0036 = 9

That is how much damage your bleeds would gain additionally from a sigil of bursting. I still wish it were cleaner. It’s a messy looking thing though it isn’t complicated, just messy.

The reason why we don’t take the 22 damage that is “free” is because base condition damage on a player character in the character panel with no equipment on and no traits is “0” so if you had that as the base sigil of bursting doesn’t do anything. It doesn’t effect that number is all.

Ok, yes, cool, got you now I think. Doesn’t really answer the “how much of a damage loss” question though, as we’re just looking at the damage addition of bursting per stack of individual conditions, not the effect on the build as a whole, which is obviously a royal pain in the hindquarters and why I was asking >.<

Thanks for explaining further, I enjoy the math stuff (to a point) but I was staring at your numbers and just drawing a blank, this explained it perfectly I think.

Edit: not boring at all, thanks again for the clarification. I’m a bit out of practice on the damage calculation stuff (and honestly never memorized it all like I did for games I used to play). So I didn’t recognize your numbers initially and just couldn’t follow.

Jerus.4350:

DGraves.3720:

Jerus.4350:

DGraves.3720:

Xyonon.3987:

Heya,

Bursting only boosts your BASE condition damage, not the final condi damage. So it’s even worse.

Backwards. Bursting doesn’t boost the base and only boosts the final.

Runes of Berserker boost base ( 131.5 + .155 x Condition Damage ) x 1.05

Bursting boosts final 131.5 + ( .155 x Condition Damage x 1.06 ).

If you face a single target, use Geomancy and Earth, if you face multiple targets you should use Geomancy and Bursting, because Earth occasionaly will proc on adds and be a dps loss compared to Bursting.

If you ever see the opportunity to use Corruption, use that one instead!

Greez!
- Ziggy

At 2,500 condition damage bonus from Bursting is 150. 6% of that, bleed’s coefficient, is 9. It’s unlikely adding 9 to your Germany bleed for adds is a better move than using earth against the main considering 2,500 CD bleeds for 150 on its own.

It will always work out to a flat 6% due to design.

Both posts you’ve made have a lot of numbers but I have no idea where they’re coming from. I like math, but like saying bleed’s coefficient is 9… no, no it’s not, it’s .06 with a base of 22, so the formula is [condition damage *.06 + 22]. I have a feeling you know what you’re talking about but it’s impossible to follow when the numbers aren’t being defined and at face value look to come from nowhere.

Oh, no problem.

So let’s work with the sigil of bursting first.

So if we have equipment and all that which gives us 2,500 total condition damage then the sigil of bursting will add 6%. So 6% of 2,500 is 150.

Now we take the additional condition damage by itself ( that 150 ) and apply the bleed coefficient to get 6% of 150 or 9.

This is messy. The easiest way to do this is actually to just multiply .06 x (coefficient of condition) to get your answer. So for burning it would be .06 × .155 and for bleeding it’s .06 × .06 ( which, if you notice, is also .06^2, coincidence ) and then you have exactly what you will get from your sigil of bursting.

So .06 × .06 = .0036

2,500 × .0036 = 9

That is how much damage your bleeds would gain additionally from a sigil of bursting. I still wish it were cleaner. It’s a messy looking thing though it isn’t complicated, just messy.

The reason why we don’t take the 22 damage that is “free” is because base condition damage on a player character in the character panel with no equipment on and no traits is “0” so if you had that as the base sigil of bursting doesn’t do anything. It doesn’t effect that number is all.

Ok, yes, cool, got you now I think. Doesn’t really answer the “how much of a damage loss” question though, as we’re just looking at the damage addition of bursting per stack of individual conditions, not the effect on the build as a whole, which is obviously a royal pain in the hindquarters and why I was asking >.<

Thanks for explaining further, I enjoy the math stuff (to a point) but I was staring at your numbers and just drawing a blank, this explained it perfectly I think.

Edit: not boring at all, thanks again for the clarification. I’m a bit out of practice on the damage calculation stuff (and honestly never memorized it all like I did for games I used to play). So I didn’t recognize your numbers initially and just couldn’t follow.

Well the damage loss is so catastrophic it isn’t worth computing but to do so all you would do is take a stretch of time, say thirty seconds, and then choose a set of elements to apply. For instance, 30s timeline, 5s bleed on proc, 60% chance for bleed and 50% critical strike with one strike ever 1s with a 1s bleed, and 1,800 condition damage yeah?

So 30 full strikes. Half are critical hits so that is 15. 60% of the fifteen are eligible so that’s 9 strikes. 2 strikes overlap in timing with the ICD so that’s 7 total.

So now the bleeds themselves, 1800 × .06 + 22 = 130. 130 × 5s = 650. 650 × 7 applications = kitten (four-thousand five hundred and fifty, no idea why that is censored ) total damage from the sigil and then 3,900 from the 1s bleed of every attack making for 8,450 in that 30s.

To test the sigil of bursting is much easier. We have 30s, 1s bleeds each second, 1,800 condition damage. So let’s solve for sigil of bursting:

1,800 * 1.06 = 1908 total condition damage.

1908 × .06 +22 = 136.48 × 30 seconds = 4094.4.

So 4094.4 / 8450 = .48 or 48% so you do 48% of the potential damage you could in the same 30s. The length of the bleed on each attack won’t matter, it doesn’t change anything, so I set it to 1 second and you need that bleed in order for this to work because otherwise there’s nothing for the sigil of bursting to express through.

But yeah, basically it’s a damage cut of at least 52%.

DGraves.3720:

The value of 22 / .06 / .06 or 22 / .0036 is that the 6,111 specifically relates to how much effective condition damage you would need for it to be better than one additional bleed from any other source. It would be worth more than a bleed. Same is true for any other condition, for instance, burning:

131.5 / .155 / .06 = 14,139 so at that amount of condition damage your burning from sigil of bursting would do 131.5 extra damage. Obviously that is impossible but it’s good for knowing how effective something is. So if there a sigil that allowed you to get burning on a critical strike it’s value is much greater than a sigil of bursting.

Blah blah I’m so boring.

I’m not saying that bursting is better than earth, but I’m not sure I agree with those numbers. It feels like these calculations are too “out of context”.

So, sigil of bursting increases your bleed tick dmg by 0.0036 and burn by tick by 9, is this correct?
But to compare the dmg gain of the sigil with one extra bleed application, shouldn’t we compare the dmg gain of a full condi application? That meaning all the poison, bleeds, confusion and burning that you apply that would be taking benefit from the extra condi dmg?

DGraves.3720:

Jerus.4350:

DGraves.3720:

Xyonon.3987:

Heya,

Bursting only boosts your BASE condition damage, not the final condi damage. So it’s even worse.

Backwards. Bursting doesn’t boost the base and only boosts the final.

Runes of Berserker boost base ( 131.5 + .155 x Condition Damage ) x 1.05

Bursting boosts final 131.5 + ( .155 x Condition Damage x 1.06 ).

If you face a single target, use Geomancy and Earth, if you face multiple targets you should use Geomancy and Bursting, because Earth occasionaly will proc on adds and be a dps loss compared to Bursting.

If you ever see the opportunity to use Corruption, use that one instead!

Greez!
- Ziggy

At 2,500 condition damage bonus from Bursting is 150. 6% of that, bleed’s coefficient, is 9. It’s unlikely adding 9 to your Germany bleed for adds is a better move than using earth against the main considering 2,500 CD bleeds for 150 on its own.

It will always work out to a flat 6% due to design.

Both posts you’ve made have a lot of numbers but I have no idea where they’re coming from. I like math, but like saying bleed’s coefficient is 9… no, no it’s not, it’s .06 with a base of 22, so the formula is [condition damage *.06 + 22]. I have a feeling you know what you’re talking about but it’s impossible to follow when the numbers aren’t being defined and at face value look to come from nowhere.

Oh, no problem.

So let’s work with the sigil of bursting first.

So if we have equipment and all that which gives us 2,500 total condition damage then the sigil of bursting will add 6%. So 6% of 2,500 is 150.

Now we take the additional condition damage by itself ( that 150 ) and apply the bleed coefficient to get 6% of 150 or 9.

This is messy. The easiest way to do this is actually to just multiply .06 x (coefficient of condition) to get your answer. So for burning it would be .06 × .155 and for bleeding it’s .06 × .06 ( which, if you notice, is also .06^2, coincidence ) and then you have exactly what you will get from your sigil of bursting.

So .06 × .06 = .0036

2,500 × .0036 = 9

That is how much damage your bleeds would gain additionally from a sigil of bursting. I still wish it were cleaner. It’s a messy looking thing though it isn’t complicated, just messy.

The reason why we don’t take the 22 damage that is “free” is because base condition damage on a player character in the character panel with no equipment on and no traits is “0” so if you had that as the base sigil of bursting doesn’t do anything. It doesn’t effect that number is all.

---

“Six percent of six percent of a number equals 22.”

Let me explain the 6,111 while I’m at it.

So we know that the “free” damage of bleed is 22. We also know that the base character sheet condition damage is 0 without equipment or skills to boost it. What this means is that we can solve for 22 using the coefficients of both sigil of bursting and bleed in order to find the point where sigil or bursting equals a free bleed at zero condition damage (or adds 22 total damage to your bleeds).

The value of 22 / .06 / .06 or 22 / .0036 is that the 6,111 specifically relates to how much effective condition damage you would need for it to be better than one additional bleed from any other source. It would be worth more than a bleed. Same is true for any other condition, for instance, burning:

131.5 / .155 / .06 = 14,139 so at that amount of condition damage your burning from sigil of bursting would do 131.5 extra damage. Obviously that is impossible but it’s good for knowing how effective something is. So if there a sigil that allowed you to get burning on a critical strike it’s value is much greater than a sigil of bursting.

Blah blah I’m so boring.

I haven’t checked the maths but the numbers look ok at a glance.

“The value of 22 / .06 / .06 or 22 / .0036 is that the 6,111 specifically relates to how much effective condition damage you would need for it to be better than one additional bleed from any other source.”
This bit has me intrigued.

seems like your saying you need 6,111 condi dmg for bursting to be better than a single bleed stack.
With duration an earth sigil sigil can add up to 5 stacks. ( realistically 4 due to actually getting it to proc. 10s duration ( 5s base), 2s cd.)

So would you not need 6,111 condi dps * 4 ( ~24k) in just condi damage for bursting to be better than earth? Assuming single target.

Artemis Thuras.8795:

DGraves.3720:

Jerus.4350:

DGraves.3720:

Xyonon.3987:

Heya,

Bursting only boosts your BASE condition damage, not the final condi damage. So it’s even worse.

Backwards. Bursting doesn’t boost the base and only boosts the final.

Runes of Berserker boost base ( 131.5 + .155 x Condition Damage ) x 1.05

Bursting boosts final 131.5 + ( .155 x Condition Damage x 1.06 ).

If you face a single target, use Geomancy and Earth, if you face multiple targets you should use Geomancy and Bursting, because Earth occasionaly will proc on adds and be a dps loss compared to Bursting.

If you ever see the opportunity to use Corruption, use that one instead!

Greez!
- Ziggy

At 2,500 condition damage bonus from Bursting is 150. 6% of that, bleed’s coefficient, is 9. It’s unlikely adding 9 to your Germany bleed for adds is a better move than using earth against the main considering 2,500 CD bleeds for 150 on its own.

It will always work out to a flat 6% due to design.

Both posts you’ve made have a lot of numbers but I have no idea where they’re coming from. I like math, but like saying bleed’s coefficient is 9… no, no it’s not, it’s .06 with a base of 22, so the formula is [condition damage *.06 + 22]. I have a feeling you know what you’re talking about but it’s impossible to follow when the numbers aren’t being defined and at face value look to come from nowhere.

Oh, no problem.

So let’s work with the sigil of bursting first.

So if we have equipment and all that which gives us 2,500 total condition damage then the sigil of bursting will add 6%. So 6% of 2,500 is 150.

Now we take the additional condition damage by itself ( that 150 ) and apply the bleed coefficient to get 6% of 150 or 9.

This is messy. The easiest way to do this is actually to just multiply .06 x (coefficient of condition) to get your answer. So for burning it would be .06 × .155 and for bleeding it’s .06 × .06 ( which, if you notice, is also .06^2, coincidence ) and then you have exactly what you will get from your sigil of bursting.

So .06 × .06 = .0036

2,500 × .0036 = 9

That is how much damage your bleeds would gain additionally from a sigil of bursting. I still wish it were cleaner. It’s a messy looking thing though it isn’t complicated, just messy.

The reason why we don’t take the 22 damage that is “free” is because base condition damage on a player character in the character panel with no equipment on and no traits is “0” so if you had that as the base sigil of bursting doesn’t do anything. It doesn’t effect that number is all.

---

“Six percent of six percent of a number equals 22.”

Let me explain the 6,111 while I’m at it.

So we know that the “free” damage of bleed is 22. We also know that the base character sheet condition damage is 0 without equipment or skills to boost it. What this means is that we can solve for 22 using the coefficients of both sigil of bursting and bleed in order to find the point where sigil or bursting equals a free bleed at zero condition damage (or adds 22 total damage to your bleeds).

The value of 22 / .06 / .06 or 22 / .0036 is that the 6,111 specifically relates to how much effective condition damage you would need for it to be better than one additional bleed from any other source. It would be worth more than a bleed. Same is true for any other condition, for instance, burning:

131.5 / .155 / .06 = 14,139 so at that amount of condition damage your burning from sigil of bursting would do 131.5 extra damage. Obviously that is impossible but it’s good for knowing how effective something is. So if there a sigil that allowed you to get burning on a critical strike it’s value is much greater than a sigil of bursting.

Blah blah I’m so boring.

I haven’t checked the maths but the numbers look ok at a glance.

“The value of 22 / .06 / .06 or 22 / .0036 is that the 6,111 specifically relates to how much effective condition damage you would need for it to be better than one additional bleed from any other source.”
This bit has me intrigued.

seems like your saying you need 6,111 condi dmg for bursting to be better than a single bleed stack.
With duration an earth sigil sigil can add up to 5 stacks. ( realistically 4 due to actually getting it to proc. 10s duration ( 5s base), 2s cd.)

So would you not need 6,111 condi dps * 4 ( ~24k) in just condi damage for bursting to be better than earth? Assuming single target.

No, because that doesn’t take into account the 15 damage you get from burning, or +6 on poison, and +3/~6 from confusion, and it’s just taking into account a single bleed stack, which really it’s +6 per bleed stack. To finish the bursting calculation you use what he gave there, and add up all the conditions you’re doing and add that value. So if you have say 8 burn, 10 bleed, 4 poison, and 2 confusion you’d get 8*1510*6+4*6+2*3=210 extra damage (numbers of stacks pulled right from my rear end). Have multiple targets you gain damage on each one unlike earth which as xyonon pointed out can actually lower your damage on the target you want (proc hitting add rather than the main target).

Wahoo everyone!

DGraves.3720:

Backwards. Bursting doesn’t boost the base and only boosts the final.

Runes of Berserker boost base ( 131.5 + .155 x Condition Damage ) x 1.05

Bursting boosts final 131.5 + ( .155 x Condition Damage x 1.06 ).

And here I come, wrecking your math with a statement I made at the very beginning. <3

Rune of the Berserker is a modifier of 5% for outgoing condition damage. Therefore it rises the final condition damage by exactly 5%.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXhYp4xIjiY

Sigil of Bursting does only boost the base condition damage (including food, but not utility) and gets worse the more buffs you got.
(attachment)

Accordingly:

Bursting increases the base condi damage by 6%. The base with food is 1445. With bursting this goes up to 1532 (+ 87). Your final condi damage will rise from 2632 to 2719 (+ 87).

This affects each condition (per sec per stack) under realistic raid circumstances (qT buffs):

• Bleed from 250.56 to 257.83 (+2.90% dmg)
• Burn from 751.25 to 770.02 (+2.50% dmg)
• Poison from 266.57 to 273.84 (+2.73% dmg)
• Confu. sec from 142.21 to 146.45 (+2.98% dmg)
• Confu. Skill from 298.02 to 305.59 (+2.54% dmg)

Since only 80% of our damage is condi and 20% power, the total damage gets buffed by ~2-2.384%. Let simplify this and call it 2.3%. Bursting increases our total dps by 2.3%.

Full buffed condi Engi with 2632 condi damage and under realistic raid conditions, each Sigil of Earth proc will deal 2506 damage. On a realistic cooldown of 3s, this makes 835 DpS from Earth.

If 835 are 2.3%, then 100% are 36,319 DpS. If you are above that, then Bursting will be better than Earth. Good luck with that.

Greez
- Ziggy

So wouldn’t you need to add to this discussion the Firearms Trait “Sharpshooter” which has a 33% chance to apply Bleed for 4 sec. How does this factor into the Earth Sigil’s performance?

How does it affect the Earth Sigil’s performance? :o

Xyonon.3987:

How does it affect the Earth Sigil’s performance? :o

I’m thinking that they’re referring to both being on crit and perhaps a priority issue, but I think they shouldn’t interfere with eachother and even if so with the cooldowns and spacing given some time it’d be a negligible thing either way.

Xyonon.3987:

Wahoo everyone!

---

DGraves.3720:

Backwards. Bursting doesn’t boost the base and only boosts the final.

Runes of Berserker boost base ( 131.5 + .155 x Condition Damage ) x 1.05

Bursting boosts final 131.5 + ( .155 x Condition Damage x 1.06 ).

And here I come, wrecking your math with a statement I made at the very beginning. <3

Rune of the Berserker is a modifier of 5% for outgoing condition damage. Therefore it rises the final condition damage by exactly 5%.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXhYp4xIjiY

Sigil of Bursting does only boost the base condition damage (including food, but not utility) and gets worse the more buffs you got.
(attachment)

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Accordingly:

Bursting increases the base condi damage by 6%. The base with food is 1445. With bursting this goes up to 1532 (+ 87). Your final condi damage will rise from 2632 to 2719 (+ 87).

This affects each condition (per sec per stack) under realistic raid circumstances (qT buffs):

• Bleed from 250.56 to 257.83 (+2.90% dmg)
• Burn from 751.25 to 770.02 (+2.50% dmg)
• Poison from 266.57 to 273.84 (+2.73% dmg)
• Confu. sec from 142.21 to 146.45 (+2.98% dmg)
• Confu. Skill from 298.02 to 305.59 (+2.54% dmg)

Since only 80% of our damage is condi and 20% power, the total damage gets buffed by ~2-2.384%. Let simplify this and call it 2.3%. Bursting increases our total dps by 2.3%.

Full buffed condi Engi with 2632 condi damage and under realistic raid conditions, each Sigil of Earth proc will deal 2506 damage. On a realistic cooldown of 3s, this makes 835 DpS from Earth.

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If 835 are 2.3%, then 100% are 36,319 DpS. If you are above that, then Bursting will be better than Earth. Good luck with that.

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Greez
- Ziggy

You’re not wrong. You’re saying it backwards.

To understand let me convert like terms.

Base bleed = 22. 22 / .06 = 336.67 condition damage.

Berserker will increase that by 5%. (What you call “outgoing” but this is actually the base) and sigil of bursting doesn’t effect this at all.

The base of a condition is built into the condition target than into the player character which is why you’ll have a character sheet base at level 80 of zero (meaning no condition damage stat naturally).

Same with healing power and other dot effects.

I’ll chalk it up to semantics.

lLobo.7960:

DGraves.3720:

The value of 22 / .06 / .06 or 22 / .0036 is that the 6,111 specifically relates to how much effective condition damage you would need for it to be better than one additional bleed from any other source. It would be worth more than a bleed. Same is true for any other condition, for instance, burning:

131.5 / .155 / .06 = 14,139 so at that amount of condition damage your burning from sigil of bursting would do 131.5 extra damage. Obviously that is impossible but it’s good for knowing how effective something is. So if there a sigil that allowed you to get burning on a critical strike it’s value is much greater than a sigil of bursting.

Blah blah I’m so boring.

I’m not saying that bursting is better than earth, but I’m not sure I agree with those numbers. It feels like these calculations are too “out of context”.

So, sigil of bursting increases your bleed tick dmg by 0.0036 and burn by tick by 9, is this correct?
But to compare the dmg gain of the sigil with one extra bleed application, shouldn’t we compare the dmg gain of a full condi application? That meaning all the poison, bleeds, confusion and burning that you apply that would be taking benefit from the extra condi dmg?

Your burn ticks would increase at that 2500 value by 23.25 actually. Remember you get 150 from the sigil of bursting then use the native coefficient for the condition in question, and burning is 15.5% iirc.

So 2500 × .06 × .155.

Bleed ticks go up by 9 when you have 2500 condition damage. Remember it depends on your total condition damage from gear and traits.

As for comparison across a spectrum, that’s fully acceptable and wise to do. If you know you’ll have X of condition 1 and Y of condition 2 and so on by all means include them.

Mind you that’s no longer comparing the two sigils and now comparing a single sigil to an entire rotation. You don’t control the Sigil of Earth directly as it’s an effect so there’s a lot of leverage in there.

But on a positive note you actually could still use the 6,111 figure and break it out across values if you desired. For that type of analysis I recommend combined coefficients.

To understand just take kitten bleed. The coefficient is .06. So .06 × 5 = combined coefficient.

So the combined coefficient of kitten burn is .155 × 5 = .775

Take that value and multiply it by burstings .06. .775 × .06 = .0465.

.0465 < .06 therefore sigil of bursting wouldn’t do better until a certain magical condition damage value.

To find that value…

I’m so boring!

Fast forward, it works, but anyway just play the game. And definitely I recommend looking at the whole rotation and build. There’s a lot going on with traits and the whole nine yards.

Xyonon.3987:

Wahoo everyone!
[SNIP – lots of math]

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If 835 are 2.3%, then 100% are 36,319 DpS. If you are above that, then Bursting will be better than Earth. Good luck with that.

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Greez
- Ziggy

What if the target moves?
Are you taking into account adds?
Can you include a coefficient for skill level, so I can adjust the values based on my performance on each situation and decide what sigil to use in case I’m not at my best at the moment? [/s]

Why would it matter if the target moves?

If there are adds I prefer bursting due to earth only affecting one target at a time. If you fight one big enemy (main focus) with adds, it may happen that you proc Earth on an add, wasting all it’s damage. If you fight against two or more stacked champs, divide those 36k DpS by the number of enemies – short Bursting is better too.

What do you mean by “include a coefficient for skill level”? o.O

Xyonon.3987:

Why would it matter if the target moves?

If there are adds I prefer bursting due to earth only affecting one target at a time. If you fight one big enemy (main focus) with adds, it may happen that you proc Earth on an add, wasting all it’s damage. If you fight against two or more stacked champs, divide those 36k DpS by the number of enemies – short Bursting is better too.

What do you mean by “include a coefficient for skill level”? o.O

Pretty sure the [/s] stands for sarcasm

Oh my, what a sheep I am! ö.ö Uhhh … I knew that! … uhh … ok you got me T_T

lLobo.7960:

Can you include a coefficient for skill level, so I can adjust the values based on my performance on each situation and decide what sigil to use in case I’m not at my best at the moment? [/s]

minimum acceptable for raiding is .75. “pretty good” is .9-.95.

insanemaniac.2456:

lLobo.7960:

Can you include a coefficient for skill level, so I can adjust the values based on my performance on each situation and decide what sigil to use in case I’m not at my best at the moment? [/s]

minimum acceptable for raiding is .75. “pretty good” is .9-.95.

additive or multiplicative?
does it influence base stats or final dmg?

lLobo.7960:

insanemaniac.2456:

lLobo.7960:

Can you include a coefficient for skill level, so I can adjust the values based on my performance on each situation and decide what sigil to use in case I’m not at my best at the moment? [/s]

minimum acceptable for raiding is .75. “pretty good” is .9-.95.

additive or multiplicative?
does it influence base stats or final dmg?

additive, duh.

insanemaniac.2456:

lLobo.7960:

insanemaniac.2456:

lLobo.7960:

Can you include a coefficient for skill level, so I can adjust the values based on my performance on each situation and decide what sigil to use in case I’m not at my best at the moment? [/s]

minimum acceptable for raiding is .75. “pretty good” is .9-.95.

additive or multiplicative?
does it influence base stats or final dmg?

additive, duh.

It’d be multiplicative.

DGraves.3720:

insanemaniac.2456:

lLobo.7960:

insanemaniac.2456:

lLobo.7960:

Can you include a coefficient for skill level, so I can adjust the values based on my performance on each situation and decide what sigil to use in case I’m not at my best at the moment? [/s]

minimum acceptable for raiding is .75. “pretty good” is .9-.95.

additive or multiplicative?
does it influence base stats or final dmg?

additive, duh.

It’d be multiplicative.

he’s being facetious, so I was being sarcastic

insanemaniac.2456:

DGraves.3720:

insanemaniac.2456:

lLobo.7960:

insanemaniac.2456:

lLobo.7960:

Can you include a coefficient for skill level, so I can adjust the values based on my performance on each situation and decide what sigil to use in case I’m not at my best at the moment? [/s]

minimum acceptable for raiding is .75. “pretty good” is .9-.95.

additive or multiplicative?
does it influence base stats or final dmg?

additive, duh.

It’d be multiplicative.

he’s being facetious, so I was being sarcastic

So am I.

DGraves.3720:

insanemaniac.2456:

DGraves.3720:

insanemaniac.2456:

lLobo.7960:

insanemaniac.2456:

lLobo.7960:

Can you include a coefficient for skill level, so I can adjust the values based on my performance on each situation and decide what sigil to use in case I’m not at my best at the moment? [/s]

minimum acceptable for raiding is .75. “pretty good” is .9-.95.

additive or multiplicative?
does it influence base stats or final dmg?

additive, duh.

It’d be multiplicative.

he’s being facetious, so I was being sarcastic

So am I.

my bad, I couldn’t tell from your 3 words.

insanemaniac.2456:

DGraves.3720:

insanemaniac.2456:

DGraves.3720:

insanemaniac.2456:

lLobo.7960:

insanemaniac.2456:

lLobo.7960:

Can you include a coefficient for skill level, so I can adjust the values based on my performance on each situation and decide what sigil to use in case I’m not at my best at the moment? [/s]

minimum acceptable for raiding is .75. “pretty good” is .9-.95.

additive or multiplicative?
does it influence base stats or final dmg?

additive, duh.

It’d be multiplicative.

he’s being facetious, so I was being sarcastic

So am I.

my bad, I couldn’t tell from your 3 words.

I wonder what this game would be like if we did have rank coefficients like they do in Chess. Which quarter do you think you’d sit in? Top 25? Upper mid?

DGraves.3720:

insanemaniac.2456:

DGraves.3720:

insanemaniac.2456:

DGraves.3720:

insanemaniac.2456:

lLobo.7960:

insanemaniac.2456:

lLobo.7960:

Can you include a coefficient for skill level, so I can adjust the values based on my performance on each situation and decide what sigil to use in case I’m not at my best at the moment? [/s]

minimum acceptable for raiding is .75. “pretty good” is .9-.95.

additive or multiplicative?
does it influence base stats or final dmg?

additive, duh.

It’d be multiplicative.

he’s being facetious, so I was being sarcastic

So am I.

my bad, I couldn’t tell from your 3 words.

I wonder what this game would be like if we did have rank coefficients like they do in Chess. Which quarter do you think you’d sit in? Top 25? Upper mid?

meh

frankly my engi play is stagnant since engi isnt in demand in high end pve like the other other ezmode, moste potente deepz, or moar versatile classes. i have one of everything, and engi isnt special any more. just requires more concentration, leaving more room for error, and errors are more punishing and time wasting in high end pve.

insanemaniac.2456:

DGraves.3720:

insanemaniac.2456:

DGraves.3720:

insanemaniac.2456:

DGraves.3720:

insanemaniac.2456:

lLobo.7960:

insanemaniac.2456:

lLobo.7960:

Can you include a coefficient for skill level, so I can adjust the values based on my performance on each situation and decide what sigil to use in case I’m not at my best at the moment? [/s]

minimum acceptable for raiding is .75. “pretty good” is .9-.95.

additive or multiplicative?
does it influence base stats or final dmg?

additive, duh.

It’d be multiplicative.

he’s being facetious, so I was being sarcastic

So am I.

my bad, I couldn’t tell from your 3 words.

I wonder what this game would be like if we did have rank coefficients like they do in Chess. Which quarter do you think you’d sit in? Top 25? Upper mid?

meh

frankly my engi play is stagnant since engi isnt in demand in high end pve like the other other ezmode, moste potente deepz, or moar versatile classes. i have one of everything, and engi isnt special any more. just requires more concentration, leaving more room for error, and errors are more punishing and time wasting in high end pve.

I do admit that this is true. Which is really unfortunate since Engineers really are falling behind and are just too cumbersome to master anymore when it’s much easier to do other classes and they are more engaging as well.