My topic, is like alot of other topics about the use of the engineer elite skills. In this topic mainly focussing on the Elixir X.
Good side:
- The brute deals very very heavy damage.
- In some situations the tornado can be very useful.
- Can be extended with the trait.
Downsides:
- RANDOM: The tornado is used mosly in crowd controll, and the brute in heavy DPS. When its random u have a 50% chance with ending up with something you do not need at that moment.
- Turning into a tornado is very magicly-like. Engineers are NO scholars, so why is that tornado there?
In my opinion the Elixir X should be totally chanced. I like the idea of an elixir elite.
Engineers already have 2 support elites: Supply Package and Mortar (which is also very underpowered).
Updating the Elixir X to or an offesive or a defensive would be a nice solution. I think this could be done like this:
-Defensive: Drinking Elixir X Reduces incoming damage by 40%, and reflects half of that reduced damage for 20(?) seconds.
-Offensive: Drinking Elixir X gives you 10% chance to apply torment on weapon skill use for 8s. This effect stays for 25 seconds(?).
When Elixir X would be upgraded to one of these (or something in this direction), u would be sure to use it!
This topic comes up a few times a month. Most of the time the person complaining does not use the skill heavily, plays a condi build, or both.
The main issue is that most people do not understand elixir X has 3 primary uses. The first 2 uses are applicable in both forms. It is simply AoE CC (both forms). That is what you use it for. Many builds without stability or heavy evades can be countered by using this skill appropriately. It is your best access to stability. Want to make a hammer or mace warrior cry? Pop this skill. The other skill applies to rampage. It can be used as a Catch up skill or a running skill. It really is that simple. If you have bomb kit you can use it to enhance BoB.
The skill has a shorter cd when traited than the 2 elites that go into it. The fact is those who tend to complain about this skill really do not use it. Many who do use it know how good it is. I does not need to be rehashed 6 times month because some payer thought they had a good idea. The skill is fine exactly as it is. This topic does not need to be repeated.
Kor The Cold Heart War Wrekkes-Engineer Kore Rok Thief-Asraithe-Ele
Elixir X is also great underwater. The whirlpool can destroy people who aren’t expecting it, and the plague form is, well, if you know plague form then I shouldn’t need to explain. I think it also lets you take the plague form on land if you manage to get it underwater.
Supply crate is sometimes not as good underwater because the enemy has different attack vectors and the med packs are not easy to pick up properly.
I used to use it a lot on land, but I find it’s better with a power/tanky build and I’m generally running condis or healing/support builds.
I am not complaining mates ;D I am just wondering how you guys are handeling the randomness of the skill, because they have other purposes. Next to that I just did a suggestion. Thats all. I AM GIVING EXILIR X A CHANCE. gosh…
I am not complaining mates ;D I am just wondering how you guys are handeling the randomness of the skill, because they have other purposes. Next to that I just did a suggestion. Thats all. I AM GIVING EXILIR X A CHANCE. gosh…
My build is your basic HGH except I run a rifle and a good chunk of celestial stats (do not run this unless you plan to hybrid your build). The main reason I came to these stats is direct damage in PvE and might stacking picking up for both my lack of power and conditions . What is my point? i used to run elixir X with my pure condi build. the result were lack luster because I never hit hard enough to see the point of using it beside CC and running . You can not really give it a chance unless you make your build power. It is really that simple using it in a condi build it will nigh always under perform .
Kor The Cold Heart War Wrekkes-Engineer Kore Rok Thief-Asraithe-Ele
Since I run a HGH build, Elixir X is incredibly good on it…But you’re neglecting what else Juggernaut form does. Every third attack in your 1 chain dazes for one second. Your 2 allows you to kick an enemy back. 3 is a charge and while I’m not sure if it interrupts, it gives you a great gap closer. 4 gives you a ranged attack and possibly another interrupt and 5 is an AoE interrupt. There’s still a lot of CC to be had in that form.
The overall theme with the engineer kit is learning how to adapt and when you pop the wrong form, well, you could toggle out of it and wait another 90 seconds, but personally, I make the best out of each form.
Elixir X is great if you’re running a condi or hybrid build with Runes of Perplexity. Almost every skill in Rampage interrupts and is able to hit multiple targets and can apply 5 stacks of confusion with no internal cool-down providing they are interrupted. Tornado knock-back has the same function with possibly interrupting targets charging through a zerg with these in WvW can be pretty nasty with the runes as they are now and you can end up with 20+ stacks of confusion on multiple targets. I would not be surprised if the interrupt had a ICD added at some point.
However the above is really gimmicky and dependent on the runes while elixir x can have niche uses I definitely think it should be updated in some way and I do feel that the tornado form isn’t very engineer-ish. The RNG factor alone limits the uses for X in most cases.
This topic comes up a few times a month. Most of the time the person complaining does not use the skill heavily, plays a condi build, or both.
The main issue is that most people do not understand elixir X has 3 primary uses. The first 2 uses are applicable in both forms. It is simply AoE CC (both forms). That is what you use it for. Many builds without stability or heavy evades can be countered by using this skill appropriately. It is your best access to stability. Want to make a hammer or mace warrior cry? Pop this skill. The other skill applies to rampage. It can be used as a Catch up skill or a running skill. It really is that simple. If you have bomb kit you can use it to enhance BoB.
The skill has a shorter cd when traited than the 2 elites that go into it. The fact is those who tend to complain about this skill really do not use it. Many who do use it know how good it is. I does not need to be rehashed 6 times month because some payer thought they had a good idea. The skill is fine exactly as it is. This topic does not need to be repeated.
QFT
I don’t have the desire to keep repeating myself, but at least I know the combo to get access to a nearly 30 second stability in a form I can activate every 84 seconds coupled with a condition clear and every boon that will last 50% longer and grant 9% more damage will never get nerfed since it’s so under utilized.
Circumventing profanity filters one kitten at a time.
I don’t have the desire to keep repeating myself, but at least I know the combo to get access to a nearly 30 second stability in a form I can activate every 84 seconds coupled with a condition clear and every boon that will last 50% longer and grant 9% more damage will never get nerfed since it’s so under utilized.
I don’t think it’s fair to use Rune of Lyssa to explain why Elixir X is good. Sure they’re a good combo, but just because Rune of Lyssa works well with Elixir X doesn’t make Elixir X a good skill. It makes Lyssa a good rune.
I just don’t like the RNG. There is a place where both forms work great, though I mostly prefer the Rampage, I just usually get the one I don’t want. This is why I just don’t slot Elixir X that often, I don’t like needing one thing and getting another. Even in builds where it would work well, I’d rather just have the AOE stun and some extra immobilize/heals from Supply Crate than have to blow my elite for something that isn’t helpful.
I hope at some point we can just get 5 unique skills so it’s an actual Engineer transformation. I don’t think that would be overly hard to implement.
I don’t have the desire to keep repeating myself, but at least I know the combo to get access to a nearly 30 second stability in a form I can activate every 84 seconds coupled with a condition clear and every boon that will last 50% longer and grant 9% more damage will never get nerfed since it’s so under utilized.
I don’t think it’s fair to use Rune of Lyssa to explain why Elixir X is good. Sure they’re a good combo, but just because Rune of Lyssa works well with Elixir X doesn’t make Elixir X a good skill. It makes Lyssa a good rune.
I just don’t like the RNG. There is a place where both forms work great, though I mostly prefer the Rampage, I just usually get the one I don’t want. This is why I just don’t slot Elixir X that often, I don’t like needing one thing and getting another. Even in builds where it would work well, I’d rather just have the AOE stun and some extra immobilize/heals from Supply Crate than have to blow my elite for something that isn’t helpful.
I hope at some point we can just get 5 unique skills so it’s an actual Engineer transformation. I don’t think that would be overly hard to implement.
It’s no different than using a rune set like perplexity to justify a build with a lot of interrupts, or altruism for a build that uses a med kit rotation for permanent swiftness, might, fury, and vigor. Engineer builds are not critters you can isolate from their gear choices and expect them to perform. It is and remains only as good as the person using it. If only more skills and classes could be that transparent…
Circumventing profanity filters one kitten at a time.
I don’t have the desire to keep repeating myself, but at least I know the combo to get access to a nearly 30 second stability in a form I can activate every 84 seconds coupled with a condition clear and every boon that will last 50% longer and grant 9% more damage will never get nerfed since it’s so under utilized.
I don’t think it’s fair to use Rune of Lyssa to explain why Elixir X is good. Sure they’re a good combo, but just because Rune of Lyssa works well with Elixir X doesn’t make Elixir X a good skill. It makes Lyssa a good rune.
I just don’t like the RNG. There is a place where both forms work great, though I mostly prefer the Rampage, I just usually get the one I don’t want. This is why I just don’t slot Elixir X that often, I don’t like needing one thing and getting another. Even in builds where it would work well, I’d rather just have the AOE stun and some extra immobilize/heals from Supply Crate than have to blow my elite for something that isn’t helpful.
I hope at some point we can just get 5 unique skills so it’s an actual Engineer transformation. I don’t think that would be overly hard to implement.
It’s no different than using a rune set like perplexity to justify a build with a lot of interrupts, or altruism for a build that uses a med kit rotation for permanent swiftness, might, fury, and vigor. Engineer builds are not critters you can isolate from their gear choices and expect them to perform. It is and remains only as good as the person using it. If only more skills and classes could be that transparent…
You’re right it is no different. If people use Mine Kit in an interrupt build with Perplexity runes to great success, it doesn’t mean Mine Kit is good. It means the rune is good because without it you probably wouldn’t be using Mine Kit. Same with Altruism runes, if Med Kit was rarely used without them then yes I would also be saying Med Kit is not good because it’s only the runes making them useful. Clearly that isn’t the case with Med Kit, but I think it is with Throw Mine and Elixir X.
If the skill is only good because of a certain rune, I think that suggests the skill is probably not very good and needs to be looked at.
You’re right it is no different. If people use Mine Kit in an interrupt build with Perplexity runes to great success, it doesn’t mean Mine Kit is good. It means the rune is good because without it you probably wouldn’t be using Mine Kit. Same with Altruism runes, if Med Kit was rarely used without them then yes I would also be saying Med Kit is not good because it’s only the runes making them useful. Clearly that isn’t the case with Med Kit, but I think it is with Throw Mine and Elixir X.
If the skill is only good because of a certain rune, I think that suggests the skill is probably not very good and needs to be looked at.
Just in defense of Mine it has it’s uses outside of perplexity in WvW / sPvP the damage it does in power heavy builds is quite acceptable as well the knockback use is fairly obvious and in WvW putting it at portals along with the thrown mines and with all the necro marks stacked up it helps keep people out and instagibs squishies. It’s also nice when scouting/defending camps/bloodlust node. All this assuming of course you have forceful explosives trait otherwise its garbage due to the small radius.
IIRC Mines are getting the same radius increases bombs are receiving next balance patch as well.
Well sure it has it’s uses (as does Elixir X), I didn’t mean to say it’s totally useless. I only said it wasn’t very good and rarely used. I believe both of those statements are true.
I also said Mine Kit, and that statement is definitely not true!
You’re right it is no different. If people use Mine Kit in an interrupt build with Perplexity runes to great success, it doesn’t mean Mine Kit is good. It means the rune is good because without it you probably wouldn’t be using Mine Kit. Same with Altruism runes, if Med Kit was rarely used without them then yes I would also be saying Med Kit is not good because it’s only the runes making them useful. Clearly that isn’t the case with Med Kit, but I think it is with Throw Mine and Elixir X.
If the skill is only good because of a certain rune, I think that suggests the skill is probably not very good and needs to be looked at.
Just in defense of Mine it has it’s uses outside of perplexity in WvW / sPvP the damage it does in power heavy builds is quite acceptable as well the knockback use is fairly obvious and in WvW putting it at portals along with the thrown mines and with all the necro marks stacked up it helps keep people out and instagibs squishies. It’s also nice when scouting/defending camps/bloodlust node. All this assuming of course you have forceful explosives trait otherwise its garbage due to the small radius.
IIRC Mines are getting the same radius increases bombs are receiving next balance patch as well.
Pro Tip: when it comes to Mine, use the tool belt and the utility, then swap it out. They stay placed for their duration. The FT tool belt is also something I’ll cycle that sticks around after you swap out the utility to something you actually want to use. Incendiary Ammo in a build that doesn’t use a flame thrower? Yep, I do that.
Circumventing profanity filters one kitten at a time.
You’re right it is no different. If people use Mine Kit in an interrupt build with Perplexity runes to great success, it doesn’t mean Mine Kit is good. It means the rune is good because without it you probably wouldn’t be using Mine Kit. Same with Altruism runes, if Med Kit was rarely used without them then yes I would also be saying Med Kit is not good because it’s only the runes making them useful. Clearly that isn’t the case with Med Kit, but I think it is with Throw Mine and Elixir X.
If the skill is only good because of a certain rune, I think that suggests the skill is probably not very good and needs to be looked at.
Just in defense of Mine it has it’s uses outside of perplexity in WvW / sPvP the damage it does in power heavy builds is quite acceptable as well the knockback use is fairly obvious and in WvW putting it at portals along with the thrown mines and with all the necro marks stacked up it helps keep people out and instagibs squishies. It’s also nice when scouting/defending camps/bloodlust node. All this assuming of course you have forceful explosives trait otherwise its garbage due to the small radius.
IIRC Mines are getting the same radius increases bombs are receiving next balance patch as well.
Pro Tip: when it comes to Mine, use the tool belt and the utility, then swap it out. They stay placed for their duration. The FT tool belt is also something I’ll cycle that sticks around after you swap out the utility to something you actually want to use. Incendiary Ammo in a build that doesn’t use a flame thrower? Yep, I do that.
Thanks for the tip. Doesn’t change my opinion on Mines, using them for free is nice (and surely a bug) but that doesn’t magically make them a good skill to me.
Pro Tip: when it comes to Mine, use the tool belt and the utility, then swap it out. They stay placed for their duration. The FT tool belt is also something I’ll cycle that sticks around after you swap out the utility to something you actually want to use. Incendiary Ammo in a build that doesn’t use a flame thrower? Yep, I do that.
Shoosh we’re not suppose to talk about this. I thought this was an unbreakable rule since you know late beta. :P
Pro Tip: when it comes to Mine, use the tool belt and the utility, then swap it out. They stay placed for their duration. The FT tool belt is also something I’ll cycle that sticks around after you swap out the utility to something you actually want to use. Incendiary Ammo in a build that doesn’t use a flame thrower? Yep, I do that.
Shoosh we’re not suppose to talk about this. I thought this was an unbreakable rule since you know late beta. :P
13 months of bug reports and it’s still that way even after they fixed the underwater double heal trick which basically did the same thing? Either they don’t care (most likely) or it’s working as intended.
Circumventing profanity filters one kitten at a time.
Didn’t turrets used to do that way back in beta but they fixed those? If you change the utility of a turret while it’s active, now it will explode but I’m pretty sure it used to just stay out.
Didn’t turrets used to do that way back in beta but they fixed those? If you change the utility of a turret while it’s active, now it will explode but I’m pretty sure it used to just stay out.
Can’t say I recall that in beta, but then again I can’t remember where I put my keys half the time, so it’s likely they did.
Though in the spirit of staying on topic, I don’t feel Elixir X is any less useful than either of the forms available to the classes it draws it’s RNG from. I think that Elixir X is actually more powerful as it can be traited for both cd reduction and longer duration in contrast to Warrior and Elementalist that can do neither.
Circumventing profanity filters one kitten at a time.
Didn’t turrets used to do that way back in beta but they fixed those? If you change the utility of a turret while it’s active, now it will explode but I’m pretty sure it used to just stay out.
Can’t say I recall that in beta, but then again I can’t remember where I put my keys half the time, so it’s likely they did.
Though in the spirit of staying on topic, I don’t feel Elixir X is any less useful than either of the forms available to the classes it draws it’s RNG from. I think that Elixir X is actually more powerful as it can be traited for both cd reduction and longer duration in contrast to Warrior and Elementalist that can do neither.
I agree with some of the positives Elixir X has going for it, again I don’t think it’s useless just not very good and in need of improvement.
What about my most significant concern, the RNG? When you’re fighting against someone and you want a boost to grant stability and take them down quicker, you want Rampage. What do you do if you get Tornado? In my experience you can’t really hurt them with Tornado, they just stay out of the circle. The Stability is great, but they can just pick you off from about 600 range and you can’t do anything about it. Even if they have no range whatsoever they can literally stand outside the circle and watch you waste your elite.
Sadly, I have found the most effectively thing in that situation is just to cancel Tornado, and no elite skill should ever be most effective by cancelling its use altogether.
If I’m missing something I’d love to be enlightened, but in a 1v1 situation I can’t understand how I would ever want Tornado and that is a good example of why Elixir X is frustrating to me. I don’t have a problem with either form individually, but getting one when you need the other is just infuriating.
Didn’t turrets used to do that way back in beta but they fixed those? If you change the utility of a turret while it’s active, now it will explode but I’m pretty sure it used to just stay out.
Can’t say I recall that in beta, but then again I can’t remember where I put my keys half the time, so it’s likely they did.
Though in the spirit of staying on topic, I don’t feel Elixir X is any less useful than either of the forms available to the classes it draws it’s RNG from. I think that Elixir X is actually more powerful as it can be traited for both cd reduction and longer duration in contrast to Warrior and Elementalist that can do neither.
I agree with some of the positives Elixir X has going for it, again I don’t think it’s useless just not very good and in need of improvement.
What about my most significant concern, the RNG? When you’re fighting against someone and you want a boost to grant stability and take them down quicker, you want Rampage. What do you do if you get Tornado? In my experience you can’t really hurt them with Tornado, they just stay out of the circle. The Stability is great, but they can just pick you off from about 600 range and you can’t do anything about it. Even if they have no range whatsoever they can literally stand outside the circle and watch you waste your elite.
Sadly, I have found the most effectively thing in that situation is just to cancel Tornado, and no elite skill should ever be most effective by cancelling its use altogether.
If I’m missing something I’d love to be enlightened, but in a 1v1 situation I can’t understand how I would ever want Tornado and that is a good example of why Elixir X is frustrating to me. I don’t have a problem with either form individually, but getting one when you need the other is just infuriating.
Dude, try and keep your opponent in the circle. If they stay in there longer than three seconds, they get knocked down. Personally though, I’d never pop Elixir X on a 1v1.
The only thing i don’t like about it is that they basically recycled some elites of other classes. I would have preferred to see something more unique for the class.
Especially since they could have taken inspiration from Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, for example.
Didn’t turrets used to do that way back in beta but they fixed those? If you change the utility of a turret while it’s active, now it will explode but I’m pretty sure it used to just stay out.
Can’t say I recall that in beta, but then again I can’t remember where I put my keys half the time, so it’s likely they did.
Though in the spirit of staying on topic, I don’t feel Elixir X is any less useful than either of the forms available to the classes it draws it’s RNG from. I think that Elixir X is actually more powerful as it can be traited for both cd reduction and longer duration in contrast to Warrior and Elementalist that can do neither.
I agree with some of the positives Elixir X has going for it, again I don’t think it’s useless just not very good and in need of improvement.
What about my most significant concern, the RNG? When you’re fighting against someone and you want a boost to grant stability and take them down quicker, you want Rampage. What do you do if you get Tornado? In my experience you can’t really hurt them with Tornado, they just stay out of the circle. The Stability is great, but they can just pick you off from about 600 range and you can’t do anything about it. Even if they have no range whatsoever they can literally stand outside the circle and watch you waste your elite.
Sadly, I have found the most effectively thing in that situation is just to cancel Tornado, and no elite skill should ever be most effective by cancelling its use altogether.
If I’m missing something I’d love to be enlightened, but in a 1v1 situation I can’t understand how I would ever want Tornado and that is a good example of why Elixir X is frustrating to me. I don’t have a problem with either form individually, but getting one when you need the other is just infuriating.
Dude, try and keep your opponent in the circle. If they stay in there longer than three seconds, they get knocked down. Personally though, I’d never pop Elixir X on a 1v1.
Dude, why would anyone stand next to a Tornado for longer than 3 seconds. Even if they get hit once somehow (maybe I immobilized them ahead of time, just in case I got Tornado) what’s stopping them from stun break then just standing outside the circle for the rest of it?
I would use Elixir X in a 1v1 because 9 times out of 10 your opponent is using an elite, and because Rampage is awesome.
Dude, why would anyone stand next to a Tornado for longer than 3 seconds. Even if they get hit once somehow (maybe I immobilized them ahead of time, just in case I got Tornado) what’s stopping them from stun break then just standing outside the circle for the rest of it?
I would use Elixir X in a 1v1 because 9 times out of 10 your opponent is using an elite, and because Rampage is awesome.
You use tornado to get stability or to toss quickly then run. That is 1v1. In group play half the time you want tornado. Anyone drops a field you get instant bolts for quite a long time. Ethereal and Fire fields work very well. The rock toss can toss outside the circle as can your thunderbolts. If you use a rifle popping your immobilize first can help this skill be more useful. If you use bomb kit then you combo your own fire field and pop out of form. Some melee builds will immediately switch to range one you go into it or pop stability which is a good way to get them out of their melee set or pop a skill with a long CD.
Remember you are not stuck in the form you can pop in and out as your pleasure.
Kor The Cold Heart War Wrekkes-Engineer Kore Rok Thief-Asraithe-Ele
Remember you are not stuck in the form you can pop in and out as your pleasure.
This is my point. If you get the one you don’t want, the best course of action is to pop out of it an there goes your elite. That’s not designed very well. That’s really all I’m saying. The forms are fine, each have their own use though I would prefer a unique one I’m okay with them. I’m not fine with the best course of action after using my elite is to then cancel that use of the elite because it didn’t give me what I wanted.
I REALLY wish we had a tool belt skill for our elite. It would be excellent and would definitely make up for all this RNG bs.
For supply drop let us drop the bandages dropped in the drop as the tool belt.
For Elixir X give us a 3-5s tossable stability.
For Mortar let us pick it back up. (Also make it not suck in general)
Do that and every engineer in the entire world will love you forever. You’re welcome.
DH Yak’s Bend – Perfect Dark [PD]
Dr Hoppenheimer – Engi / Meowzir – Guard /
Mulcibur Nox – Ele / Mr Directed – Mes
I REALLY wish we had a tool belt skill for our elite. It would be excellent and would definitely make up for all this RNG bs.
For supply drop let us drop the bandages dropped in the drop as the tool belt.
For Elixir X give us a 3-5s tossable stability.
For Mortar let us pick it back up. (Also make it not suck in general)
Do that and every engineer in the entire world will love you forever. You’re welcome.
Considering Toss B is going to get Stability on top of Might, Fury, or Swiftness, your suggestion is pretty weak for Toss X
I don’t know if it would be worth toning down the elites to the extent that would allow toolbelt skills to accompany them.
I REALLY wish we had a tool belt skill for our elite. It would be excellent and would definitely make up for all this RNG bs.
For supply drop let us drop the bandages dropped in the drop as the tool belt.
For Elixir X give us a 3-5s tossable stability.
For Mortar let us pick it back up. (Also make it not suck in general)
Do that and every engineer in the entire world will love you forever. You’re welcome.
Considering Toss B is going to get Stability on top of Might, Fury, or Swiftness, your suggestion is pretty weak for Toss X
I don’t know if it would be worth toning down the elites to the extent that would allow toolbelt skills to accompany them.
That is a fantastic point. I’ll just add to the rest of the masses and say this: BUFF THE MORTAR!!!! lol
DH Yak’s Bend – Perfect Dark [PD]
Dr Hoppenheimer – Engi / Meowzir – Guard /
Mulcibur Nox – Ele / Mr Directed – Mes
That is a fantastic point. I’ll just add to the rest of the masses and say this: BUFF THE MORTAR!!!! lol
Ugh… one time I somehow accidentally equipped that on my bar and got in a fight with a guy… I was like “time to drop the box!” and the stupid mortar sprouted up on the ground. Part of me was frustrated, but the other part of me was laughing my butt off.
