Guild Wars 2

Kimbald.2697:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Kimbald.2697:

And on topic: yes, I consider it a very bad design if engineers can’t survive without putting 20 points in Alchemy.

I think there’s plenty to argue with that statement. Engineers can definitely survive without Cleansing Formula. I just don’t see why someone would want to go without it.

It’d be like using the Flamethrower without grabbing Deadly Mixture. Certain traits are no-brainers. If you use a lot of elixirs, you should grab Cleansing Formula.

not saying you’re wrong with these things. They do make sense.

But the question for me is: why would you need to take cleansing formula if you use ONLY elixir S as elixir?
Without this trait, the elixir S is mostly a 3 second wait to get downed…
No more cleansing, no more swiftness, no more healing.

I can live with not being allowed to prybar or bomb someone when invulnerable. But the healing skill should have stayed for me.
Runes of grenth, or a pushback turret explosion… they were ways to escape with elixir S.
Engineers could do with such ways to escape, we aren’t the best at that at all.
So that’s why I don’t think that changing this for ele’s was reason enough to change it for engineers.

Elixer S, even without 409 (or the heal) is still decent. It can secure guaranteed stomps on most professions, and be used to avoid big burst combos, as well as just relieve some pressure and re-position in a team fight. Most importantly, the toss skill can provide stability which is vital for fighting any CC heavy classes, or stealth which is always useful. 409 is a nice touch, but for my current build I like taking 2 kits, so 409 isn’t all that great.

Maybe it’s not an escape tool anymore, but it’s far from useless.

Let’s say I’m running a turret build (because I am) and I want Healing Turret because Accelerant-packed Turrets adds another layer of utility to it. Now I have a heal, condition cleanse, water field, and a knockback all in one. (it’s nice how the proper trait(s) suited to my chosen build make a skill really shine, isn’t it) Now I grab my two turrets of choice—Net and Rocket for control and damage. Something’s missing in my build though—a stun breaker. I grab Elixir S because it’s a great stun breaker. However, I don’t have any points into Alchemy. I should probably move some points into Alchemy to get the most out of Elixir S since I am giving up another turret or kit for it—at least 20 to get to Cleansing Formula 409. Now I have 2 extra condition cleanses in the form of Hidden Flask and Cleansing Formula 409—and—I’m on my way to playing a completely different build.

This is a problem. I think asking for a small heal or condition cleanse (1) on Elixir S baseline, is not completely unreasonable. We are not all running the same build and shouldn’t be. Especially within a profession that gives up so much offense in exchange for defense.

And before anyone says Turrets aren’t viable in tPvP, a lot of you FT advocates are fighting a similar battle to change the perception of your favorite kit in tPvP.

Not being able to heal up while tiny is probably the worst part about the nerf. Based on the change, however, I think ANet didn’t want it, or Mist Form, to fill the roles they were filling. It seems they want them to be purely defensive ‘run-away’ or ‘buy a few seconds for a cooldown to come up’ skills.

We can disagree with that decision—though, I don’t—and with each other, but the hyperbolic wailing is completely out of proportion to the actual change.

Elixir S/Toss Elixir S is still a valuable skill. If you don’t trait Alchemy…well, all the elixirs are going to be less desirable than if you do. Still, Elixir S is a stun break and a time-buy, it’s just no longer a Win-button. That’s fair.

The toss can give those boons, yeah. Except that we have no control about what it does, so it is basically unreliable.
And if you use elixir s people will simply avoid to use those big burst combo; they’ll wait those 3 seconds, well knowing that you can’t do anything during them anyway.
Well, that leaves just the stomp. A nice 60s cooldown stomp. Quite forgettable.

Not sure what the fuss is all about, it’s exactly like every other ability that invuln’s now with the sole exception of endure pain. If you’re seriously going to whine about wars, no amount of professional counseling will set you straight there.

As long as you still can run while shrunk, it’s a worthwhile ability. It is just not mandatory now….

AphoticEssance.7592:

I played on my beloved Engineer for 5 hours yesterday trying to convince myself that the nerfs were not so bad, only to realize that not only did Anet kill the engineer for me but may have killed the game for me as well.

I am so angry with Anet about the constant nerfing of this class.

Pistol damage is bad now – thanks to the confusion nerf static shot is a joke

Elixer S feels more like a carnival trick – Sure it is a beak stun, but you have no way to remove conditions when it pops. So ultimately it is just a silly animation before death. Was a 3 second getaway that over powered?

I am tired of spending game time trying to gear up for a build only to have it nerfed.

I am so furious at Anet now. Thanks Anet for not only ruining my gaming experience, but the experience of many others who you have nerfed to the ground in WvW.

I did the same. Probably the worst performance I’ve ever had in WvW. I barely won any of my 1v1’s and most weren’t even close, I was getting rolled. Working inside a zerg wasn’t much better. I tried 4 different builds, and none were satisfactory. I have essentially played nothing but my Engi since launch and never had an issue until this patch. The only other character I have is a level 40 Guardian. I logged him on and he had better survivability as an ungeared upleveled character than my fully tweaked Engineer.

Guess I’ll try a couple more things before I retire him, but looks like I’m going to finish leveling the Guardian and making him my main now.

I’m staying alive longer than ever after the Elixir S “nerf”.

wow you say you’ve been engy since launch and you can’t kill people outside of an HGH build? for shame.

HGH is still really powerful even without elixir S.

static shot is still so nice. blind and confusion, multi-hit when it bounces.

I am enjoying a nice utilities build now with the improved healing turret.

jesterscript.7493:

I’m staying alive longer than ever after the Elixir S “nerf”.

Oh gratz on hitting level 80. Now get exotic gear and you live bit more longer if you get lucky.

Kimbald.2697:

Must have traits are always bad in this game i think.

Not just for the engineer: must-have traits aren’t good for any profession.

That’s part of why I don’t like small changes such as this one.
They diminish the way we can make non-alchemy builds work a bit.
Elixir S was useful even without any points in Alchemy, simply because you could use med-kit for the cleanse and swiftness to get away.
Now you almost are forced to have cleansing formula 409 to get rid of whatever is holding you back when you pop elixir S.

This would be ok… IF our best builds didn’t already go 20 points in Alchemy at least.
So instead of opening variety of builds, it’s a small push towards the same strong builds again. Kit refinement was the same issue.

Healing turret was a step in the right direction, not perfect but at least it goes away from elixirs and does not rely on any trait in Alchemy.

Almost everything said here is right and my only disappointment is that I was halfway through typing a long post saying exactly this. Once Kit Refinement took that hit, it was effectively gone and HGH became “The Thing”. This is because something really powerful and fun to play with was effectively removed.

Changing Elixir S is doing the same thing but not as heavily. The people who use it proactively can deal with it because they still use it as such. Securing kills in PvP all day every day. But what of all the people using it reactively? What about the people who used the trait for defense? Before, it was a means of just getting away or surviving. Keeping it for defensive reasons requires a completely different kind of play.

So far, I’ve seen some pretty immediate, (and positive) responses in terms of skill opening. If you wanted a Stunbreaker with the similar level of defensive utility that the previous had, take Elixir R instead. It’d refill endurance to allow for dodges instead of invulnerability, break stun, and allow me to use skills, works with the same traits, can heal me while downed or cleanse conditions without any trait support. Is this build opening? Perhaps. More people are taking another skill because Elixir S’s use has become more specific and defined. Since it no longer suits their needs and playstyle, they will move on to something similar or simply play differently. Those that like it for the ability to Stomp without rejection will hold to it because that’s what they used it for. Those that need defense will either play it differently, move on to a different skill, or a completely different build altogether. Luckily, this skill is not as build integral as KR and an equivalent option does exist, so you won’t see a build saturation like the last patch caused. It’s too early to say but this might just be a success.

The Auto Elixir S (Self-Regulating Defenses) trait, however, will not have as good a result. Before this patch, I would swap between Elixir S and Protection Injection based on the kind of fights I would plan to have or ways to compensate from what my Sigils or Skills don’t already assist in. Now, I see no reason to take the former trait because it interrupts me out of my own skills and dazes me for 3s. The inability to heal or cleanse conditions isn’t worth being invulnerable. An immobilize or cripple would very well prevent you from making any kind of escape. Other conditions will simply rip at your already low HP. Automated Response doesn’t remove conditions from you so there’s no Synergy there either. At this point, it’s a trait that’s only good if you’re going full 30 Elixir line with SRE/409/HGH, because otherwise the tradeoff is awful. You need other traits to justify the use of a trait! That’s terrible (And I’d probably still take Protection Injection over it.)

Tyaen.5148:

I logged him on and he had better survivability as an ungeared upleveled character than my fully tweaked Engineer.

Having a “fully tweaked” Engineer and Guardian, I have to question this.

Guardian is certainly a very powerful class in damage mitigation with all its projectile reflects, Aegis/Prot spam, and healing skills. Putting 30 points each into Honor and Valor makes you very difficult to kill when played right.

But I think much the same can be said of Engineers, and I find it hard to believe that anybody with 30 points in Alchemy should have any issues surviving even with the change to Elixir S, especially when they’re using the traited Tool Kit too. Having 12 seconds of immunity every 48 seconds is significantly powerful.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Tyaen.5148:

I logged him on and he had better survivability as an ungeared upleveled character than my fully tweaked Engineer.

Having a “fully tweaked” Engineer and Guardian, I have to question this.

Guardian is certainly a very powerful class in damage mitigation with all its projectile reflects, Aegis/Prot spam, and healing skills. Putting 30 points each into Honor and Valor makes you very difficult to kill when played right.

But I think much the same can be said of Engineers, and I find it hard to believe that anybody with 30 points in Alchemy should have any issues surviving even with the change to Elixir S, especially when they’re using the traited Tool Kit too. Having 12 seconds of immunity every 48 seconds is significantly powerful.

Nobody is arguing that, but you’re ignoring the fact that not every build is suited to going 30 into Alchemy. There’s no argument that Elixir S is still great for those that go 30 into Alchemy, but a lot of us don’t.

Maybe I haven’t combed this thread thoroughly enough, but I haven’t seen anyone say “I’m 30 points into Alchemy and Elixir S sucks!”

Phineas Poe.3018:

Having a “fully tweaked” Engineer and Guardian, I have to question this.

Question away. That was my experience. And yes, I have 30 in Alchemy.

Downed state doesn’t really have anything to do with Elixir S and the nerf to it was completely reasonable. Being allowed to use kits while invulnerable was hilariously OP, and a lot of fun, but without question deserving of a nerf. Same as mist form.

The problem it created for Engis is relevant though. A “mid range skirmisher” with minimal mobility skills and means to gain separation is definitely problematic. Ele’s didn’t feel this as much as Engis because their remaining cantrips, Armor of Earth and Lightning Flash, still offer them a means to both secure a cast and gain separation from a threat.

Hence my plea to buff gadgets. Making Rocket Boots into a ground targeted, 900 range, stun break movement skill without the self stun would give non-bunker Engis a chance to recover their position. Which is what Elixir S offered previously though only through the means of using CC/conditions via kits while invulnerable – which was simply a broken solution to an existing problem.

^
I also don’t see what this “allowed to use kits while invulnerable bs is”?

After popping Elixir S you had a choice;
Switch back into a kit because Elixir S switches you out of it and possible get off a grand total of 2 skills, in WvW and any skilllag you will be lucky to use 1.
or
Use your Heal.

Everyone claiming tht you can just use your kits while invincible the whole time is very misleading.

The same could be said for Static Shield. Did you know you can pop that and switch to another kit and get a skill off while under the protection of your shield!
I guess the Shield will be the next thing nerfed because of this great OPness.

OP gets tossed around so much you all don’t even know the meaning of the word anymore and neither do the Devs.

hackks.3687:

Being allowed to use kits while invulnerable was hilariously OP,

I don’t agree with this at all.

But now it’s hilariously underpowered to the point that I wish the Toss Elixir S was what the regular consume did.

vinceftw.5086:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

There was actually. In a 1v1, you have to interrupt the enemy heal skill if you want to win. There are always certain skills that need to be interrupted. Ele and Engi had the distinct advantage to completely block you from doing this all together. In fact, Engi could do this TWICE (at 25% hp and on demand). Mix this with reduced recharge on elixirs and it’s insanity. I could hold a point from 2-3 people for an entire match with my engi bunker.

Warrior’s Endure Pain, Mesmer’s Distortion. Why didn’t they get the same treatment? Especially Distortion.

Because you can still be cc’d during endure pain, and in order to get the full distortion you need ramp up by summoning 3 clones.

Distortion also does not break stuns, while endure pain can be hampered by snares.

CriSPeH.8512:

^
I also don’t see what this “allowed to use kits while invulnerable bs is”?

After popping Elixir S you had a choice;
Switch back into a kit because Elixir S switches you out of it and possible get off a grand total of 2 skills, in WvW and any skilllag you will be lucky to use 1.
or
Use your Heal.

Everyone claiming tht you can just use your kits while invincible the whole time is very misleading.

The same could be said for Static Shield. Did you know you can pop that and switch to another kit and get a skill off while under the protection of your shield!
I guess the Shield will be the next thing nerfed because of this great OPness.

OP gets tossed around so much you all don’t even know the meaning of the word anymore and neither do the Devs.

when I used Elixir S it was to avoid burst, and/or heal, AND gain separation by switching to my kit so I could drop blinds/chills/cripples/Supply Crate/etc. No other can class do anything even remotely like this

yes, it hurts now that we can’t secure a heal with it and that we don’t have much of an alternative to fulfill that. you can toss S and hope for stability or that they don’t drop aoe everywhere on when you stealth. there is also minimal means to secure separation from a threat, and using S now to do will only get you killed immediately after. It’s still incredibly strong for avoiding burst, just have to start considering it’s situational uses differently.

As far as I’ve been aware swapping/stowing a kit (i.e. not using a weapon swap key but the actual utility key) will not interrupt casts. starting a new cast while in the middle of the cast however, will interrupt the previous cast. Glue Shot still seems a bit wonky with this.

If Elixir S wasn’t OP, please by all means tell me what other class could pop an invuln stun break and then be able to swap weapons, use said weapon skills, in addition to all utilities and the elite skill. And not to mention have it a on CD under 60sec.

It was simply too strong. Hence why builds could suffice with a single stun break on their skill bar and hardly lose an ounce of survivability. What we’re experiencing now is the steep drop off in alternatives to this once uber potent skill. It no longer serves the same purpose, and there really isn’t anything to fill in where’s uses have diminished.

hackks.3687:

1)when I used Elixir S it was to avoid burst, and/or heal, AND gain separation by switching to my kit so I could drop blinds/chills/cripples/Supply Crate/etc. No other can class do anything even remotely like this

2)If Elixir S wasn’t OP, please by all means tell me what other class could pop an invuln stun break and then be able to swap weapons, use said weapon skills, in addition to all utilities and the elite skill. And not to mention have it a on CD under 60sec.

1) Mesmers can confuse, teleport, use illusions for misdirection, and distort while burstshattering you down. While the strength of confusion and their burst has been lessened, they still hold the ability to do this and it is still completely capable of killing you. Elixir S, however, has only maintained the ability to secure a kill. The Warrior’s Endure Pain neglects incoming attacks for five seconds. While it can be CC’d, they can still use all their other skills, like one to gain stability which would completely circumventing their one downside. No other class can do this. But that doesn’t make it OP. Comparing us to other classes means nothing though, because they are all meant to be different. Although, this must speak volumes to how strong Engineers are perceived, in general. We have to handicap ourselves because our consistent damage is so far advanced than other classes that, if we ever feel like saving ourselves, we have to literally call Time Out for 3s to run away or stab someone in the chest.

2)Endure Pain. Oh, under 60s CD? Well, Mist Form used to. But I wouldn’t use that skill anymore either.

Nilix.2170:

hackks.3687:

1)when I used Elixir S it was to avoid burst, and/or heal, AND gain separation by switching to my kit so I could drop blinds/chills/cripples/Supply Crate/etc. No other can class do anything even remotely like this

2)If Elixir S wasn’t OP, please by all means tell me what other class could pop an invuln stun break and then be able to swap weapons, use said weapon skills, in addition to all utilities and the elite skill. And not to mention have it a on CD under 60sec.

1) Mesmers can confuse, teleport, use illusions for misdirection, and distort while burstshattering you down. While the strength of confusion and their burst has been lessened, they still hold the ability to do this and it is still completely capable of killing you. Elixir S, however, has only maintained the ability to secure a kill. The Warrior’s Endure Pain neglects incoming attacks for five seconds. While it can be CC’d, they can still use all their other skills, like one to gain stability which would completely circumventing their one downside. No other class can do this. But that doesn’t make it OP. Comparing us to other classes means nothing though, because they are all meant to be different. Although, this must speak volumes to how strong Engineers are perceived, in general. We have to handicap ourselves because our consistent damage is so far advanced than other classes that, if we ever feel like saving ourselves, we have to literally call Time Out for 3s to run away or stab someone in the chest.

2)Endure Pain. Oh, under 60s CD? Well, Mist Form used to. But I wouldn’t use that skill anymore either.

Mesmers aren’t using a stun break to become Invulnerable. It’s hilariously built into their weapons and class mechanics. I won’t argue that Mesmers aren’t purely ridiculous and more so now with the invuln nerfs, but they seem to be ANet’s baby and the exception to every rule. My only hope is that the consistent buffs they’ve been getting are just prelude to a severe nerf.

Endure Pain is not as great as everyone would like to make it out to be. They still take condition damage, can still be CC’d, and maybe the worst part of all, they still have to be Warriors. There’s a good deal of counter play there which was not present with Elixir S + kits.

As far as I remember, Mist Form was on a 90sec CD without the trait, and still over 60 with the trait. It was also nerfed the same as Elixir S even though they couldn’t use weapon skills like Engis were capable of. That should be a good indication that ANet didn’t want this type of game play to exist. Though it really does beg the question of “what’s the deal with mesmers then?”

Wut? It goes right in line with Anet’s vision of engineer:

a) Use Elixir S and be unable to do anything. Stun breaker = self stun (see rocket boots)
b) stand still don’t do anything- scope trait/turrets
c) Take something good and make it useless- sup KR
d) Engi needs a nerf somewhere every patch- it’s not OP but one killed a dev’s main one time which is unacceptable

hackks.3687:

yes, it hurts now that we can’t secure a heal with it and that we don’t have much of an alternative to fulfill that. you can toss S and hope for stability or that they don’t drop aoe everywhere on when you stealth. there is also minimal means to secure separation from a threat, and using S now to do will only get you killed immediately after. It’s still incredibly strong for avoiding burst, just have to start considering it’s situational uses differently.

This is correct, guys. It’s incorrect to say that:

—the nerf was insignificant
—S is useless now
—it wasn’t one of the best two stunbreak skills in the game before the nerf

So let’s stop saying those things, and take it for what it was: a direct nerf to a very, very good skill that’s still pretty good. I will miss the old S because it was so incredibly fun to use. I would rather have seen more professions get stuff like that so that everybody can have that much fun, but I guess that’s too much to ask.

ikiturso.4026:

lol using gadgets comon u can do better!

Yes, using gadgets. You know, they’re part of our utility skills, just because it isn’t kittening HGH doesn’t mean that it must be avoided at all costs. I’m doing fairly fine with some franken-builds of mine, they include turrets and gadgets, I have a fair chance against any opponent, I’d advise you to look further than your own nose.

foxtrot.6902:

d) Engi needs a nerf somewhere every patch- it’s not OP but one killed a dev’s main one time which is unacceptable

Of course, when a Thief played by a Dev instagibs someone, there is some play in that. When a Dev gets exploded by a build that only requires you to press V (I mean, you have 3s to react) in order to nullify the whole thing, there’s no play. -rolleyes-

You should all use your own logic on yourselves.

Everyone is so quick to point out that Engineers could use Kits skills while tiny.
A more accurate point would be they could use 1-2 skills while tiny.
You all cry how overpowered this is.
None of you care to point out the view from the Engineers opponent.
Look how obvious the Elixir S animation is!
if you get hit with a Kit attack while the Engineer is Tiny it is because you failed to dodge or block or simple move away from him.(thts why good instagib Thieves would immediately stealth or shadowstep after I popped Elixir S, the bad ones stood there and took my prybar) It took a full second to switch back into a kit after using Elixir S, I would say that is a pretty nice grace period to avoid what’s coming. It is certainly more than you get when that instagib Theif comes for you.

That is actually pretty balanced, we can get 1-2 attacks while invulnerable but there is a 1 second visual warning to our enemies.

CriSPeH.8512:

How very self-righteous of you to be amazed at everyone who is not as smart as your are. You must be some kind of special genius that you are one of the few that see the true big picture of what Anets intentions are.

See the true big picture? They said it in the State of the Game how and why it was being nerfed. Being astute is a quality of intelligence, but construing myself as “some kind of special genius” was hardly my intention.

I am amazed by the melodrama over the nerf. It still is a stunbreaker with a 3-second immunity. Calling that useless is an overreaction, and I don’t see how it could be seen otherwise. Elixir S wasn’t solely used as a Ghetto-rigged Engineer version of Shelter.

CriSPeH.8512:

Everyone else must just be a bunch of idiots crying for no reason because they just haven’t figured out what you already know.

Clearly.

That’s not even remotely close to what I said.

CriSPeH.8512:

So a fully traited Elixir S was OP???

Did I say that? I don’t believe I did. What I’m saying is that Elixir S when traited is one of the best stunbreakers in the game despite this nerf. And yes: I am identifying that this is a nerf unlike your insinuation:

CriSPeH.8512:

The only thing worse about ppl complaining about nerfs are ppl claiming the nerfs aren’t nerfs at all and everyone complaining are crying babies.

Except some people, the OP especially, kind of are being a bunch of crying babies about it.

CriSPeH.8512:

Does that mean Elixir R is OP, its an Elixir that can cure a condition, refill endurance, break stun and give might, along with a thrown Elixir that can cure a condition, give might and create a field that rez’s and cures more conditions?
Elixir U?
Are all of our skills OP because we have traits for them.

This thread isn’t about Elixir R. This thread isn’t about Elixir U (which was actually buffed in this patch). This thread is about Elixir S and people claiming it is useless. I never suggested that HGH/Cleansing Formula are overpowered. Not sure where you even came up with this response.

CriSPeH.8512:

Show me another downed ability that even half matches the utility of Vapor Form and being able to run into doors or off cliffs or outside of a capture point forcing the player to leave to finish you, Then maybe we can talk

This thread isn’t about downed skills either. And if it was, I’d be right there with you saying that ours need work. But that’s not what this thread is about.

No this is a thread for people to vent about the fact that they lost.
You know this just as well as I do.
If you think the nerf was justified than guess what you already won, good for you.
Why would you then come to the thread of kitten off ppl and call them crybabies.
This thread IS about ALL of those things because the ppl who do not agree with the nerf think that Elixir S was fine the way it was when you look at how it worked all together with the rest of the Engineers skills. So you just pointing out all the pros while leaving out everything else is just misleading.

Most of all a person would have to been a true idiot if you ever really thought that you would wake up to a new quickfix and a statement from Anet that reads
“We nerfed something on the Engineer and they got really upset and wrote a bunch of stuff about how we were wrong, so uh, we changed it back”

Everyone knows.
Something that a lot of ppl really liked got nerfed and they complain about it because that is all they can do.

What you get in the end is a complete overaction by those people(<-me) and they end up ranting and raving at you because you threw mud in their eye.

So I apologize for the personal attack. I did take most of your comment out of context. I was tired and didn’t exactly read Mifs..uh idea that you were directly responding to.
But as much as you imply everyone else is dumb, a smart person would have just let the anger thread.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Elixir S wasn’t solely used as a Ghetto-rigged Engineer version of Shelter.

I just realised how great elixir S could have been if it was a heal skill instead of a utility. Wow… Would still need to be a stunbreaker though, and no other heal skills in the game do that at the moment do they. Ah well.

NevirSayDie.6235:

It was a significant nerf, but as some top engineers have noted, the previous elixir S was in serious contention for the single best stunbreaker in the game. Three seconds of mobile invulnerability is never useless in WvW, as positioning can change drastically in three seconds. I’ll have to see how it feels in tournaments—my gut tells me it will still be better than R/boots/goggles for most builds.

Using abilities while tiny was really fun, though, and I’ll miss it. WvW engineers did get hit pretty hard this patch, although healing turret buff is not as trivial as it sounds.

To answer the question: yes, I use 409 in tournaments and WvW. If healing turret turns out to be a viable alternate source of condition removal I may change that. I can’t imagine walking into a tourney without reasonable condition removal (1 super elixir every 16-20 seconds does not count). WvW/hotjoins are easier because people aren’t as good, but condition removal is still really important.

Healing Turret/Toss Elixir R is a critical mass of reasonable condi removal, even if the toss is a pain to deal with… throw in Overcharged shot for snare removal and perhaps 15 points in either tools or inventions and things suddenly start looking pretty workable.

Nilix.2170:

Changing Elixir S is doing the same thing but not as heavily. The people who use it proactively can deal with it because they still use it as such. Securing kills in PvP all day every day. But what of all the people using it reactively? What about the people who used the trait for defense? Before, it was a means of just getting away or surviving. Keeping it for defensive reasons requires a completely different kind of play.

Yeah, we all know that the change sucks, but personally I’m undecided about how much it impacts me personally since I spent all last night erasing about a year’s worth of muscle memory on this skill. Right now, I’m thinking that Elixir S will still be fine as a defensive skill since you can just chain a dodge right at the end and just chain kitswap into gear shield/heal/whatever’s needed. 3 seconds is longer than most of the commonly used immob skills, so the advantage is still ours.

I don’t really mind the nerf but the major issue with it is it interrupts your heal. If I’m in the middle of healing and my auto elixir S activates, bam my heal stops. Same thing on my ele when going into mist form, it interrupts my heal.

CriSPeH.8512:

Everyone is so quick to point out that Engineers could use Kits skills while tiny.
A more accurate point would be they could use 1-2 skills while tiny.
You all cry how overpowered this is.

You could use kits, and then you could put the kit away and use weapon skills. That was very clearly not intended. Not overpowered, of course, and I hear other games sometimes manage to fix bugs without nerfing stuff into the ground…