Guild Wars 2

What is its healing formula ? and how does it scale with healing power ?

its crap :P
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Cures.7451:

its crap :P
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I don’t think that " crap " is its formula !!!

it heals kitten and its scaling is crap.
sry for my improper first post.

Cures.7451:

it heals kitten and its scaling is crap.
sry for my improper first post.

I will repeat my question again and I ask developers or expert players to give me the correct answer.

What is its healing formula ( includes healing power )?

0.125 healing for Regeneration, 0.06 healing for Rejuvenation for each point in healing power; Its suspected bombs aren’t any different than rejuvenation in this respect. see how it plays out: Gotta have 300 traits in healing/toughness for the GM, the 180 heals (0.06) seems about right just based off of your traits there. That would mean based on traits alone, per bomb with the GM you are doing 180 hp heals to yourself and friends. anyone else can take trinkets and armor value into that (say if you have twilight exotic full set and wep), and some cherry cookies, you may get to maybe 1200 points in healing… that’s a end game 720 heal per bomb… ED/but that may b playin it up a bit

Elixir-Infused Bomb Heal = 0.1x + 145.6

Where x is Healing Power, and the character is level 80.

I couldn’t test this out anywhere but the Heart of the Mists, and I’m not saying it is a perfect model, but it appears to be accurate to within 1% for a level 80 character, within a range of healing power from 300 to 1400. I encourage folks to test it out beyond that range and see if it holds.

A few things I did notice:
1) The healing from Elixir-Infused bombs appears to be completely independent from the damage of those bombs.
2) The healing from Elixir-Infused bombs appears to be completely independent from the type of bomb used.
3) The healing from Elixir-Infused bombs is constant for a given x; that is, if you have x Healing Power, your heals from EIB will always be y amount, with no variation or range.

Hope that helps. Let me know if the model holds outside those conditions. Two things I’d like to test (but can’t, just yet):

1) For a level 80 character with Healing Power in excess of 1400, does the model hold?
2) For a non-level 80 character, would the following formula hold:

EIB Heal = 0.1x + 1.82y

Where x is Healing Power and y is level.

If you’re feeling inquisitive, check those out and let me know!

Edit: It occurs to me I didn’t give any actual data.

Healing Power :: EIB Heal
300 :: 176
465 :: 193
1109 :: 257
1223 :: 268
1388 :: 285

So, 165 Healing Power yields approximately 17 additional healing.

Maullus.1273:

Healing Power :: EIB Heal
300 :: 176
465 :: 193
1109 :: 257
1223 :: 268
1388 :: 285

yea this makes way more sense imo in terms of level scaling but I don’t think it is accurate. in terms of healing mechanics… I think the issue is how much a base stat heal from bomb heals amount to, which is completely ambiguous. I suggest that a linear scale like Healing Power found in something like rejuvination. Hard to really know just by going to the mists and stacking up on healing stuff to really know the effectiveness of Healing Power for a fully stat player in PVE or WvW

I’m healing 234 hp with 749 healing power at lvl 80 if that can help.

Sabyne.6329:

I’m healing 234 hp with 749 healing power at lvl 80 if that can help.

Huh. That is very peculiar… your numbers are about 6% off what the model says they should be. I just tested 810 healing power and got 227 healing; less than 1% error.

Would you mind double-checking those numbers, just to be certain?

I tested it in frostgorge sound, not in the mist, so I believe the difference could be due to wvwvw bonuses we get? We have a medic bonus at +6% on my server. Maybe that’s it? Not sure if medic bonus affect healing bombs though.

Sabyne.6329:

I tested it in frostgorge sound, not in the mist, so I believe the difference could be due to wvwvw bonuses we get? We have a medic bonus at +6% on my server. Maybe that’s it? Not sure if medic bonus affect healing bombs though.

awesome, thanks for the input on that, was about to log in but the kid kept crying X( math says we are at a 0.28 base heal for bombs, in perspective with 0.125 healing for Regeneration, 0.06 healing for Rejuvenation linearly scaling with healing power points.

Sabyne.6329:

I tested it in frostgorge sound, not in the mist, so I believe the difference could be due to wvwvw bonuses we get? We have a medic bonus at +6% on my server. Maybe that’s it? Not sure if medic bonus affect healing bombs though.

Ah! That would explain the 6% difference between the model’s prediction (~221) and your results. Excellent.

There you go.

http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/523691healingbomb.jpg

Maullus.1273:

Sabyne.6329:

I tested it in frostgorge sound, not in the mist, so I believe the difference could be due to wvwvw bonuses we get? We have a medic bonus at +6% on my server. Maybe that’s it? Not sure if medic bonus affect healing bombs though.

Ah! That would explain the 6% difference between the model’s prediction (~221) and your results. Excellent.

Just wondering, where u getting your 1.82y scale from?

Sabyne.6329:

There you go.

http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/523691healingbomb.jpg

Awesome, good stuff!

Maullus.1273:

Sabyne.6329:

I tested it in frostgorge sound, not in the mist, so I believe the difference could be due to wvwvw bonuses we get? We have a medic bonus at +6% on my server. Maybe that’s it? Not sure if medic bonus affect healing bombs though.

Ah! That would explain the 6% difference between the model’s prediction (~221) and your results. Excellent.

Just tested it in overflow server in Lion’s arch and it is indeed 221 (took falling damage to test this). ^^

Sabyne.6329:

There you go.

http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/523691healingbomb.jpg

You’re a champ. I won’t lie: that would’ve been driving me nuts.

Lunar Corporation.5720:

Maullus.1273:

Sabyne.6329:

I tested it in frostgorge sound, not in the mist, so I believe the difference could be due to wvwvw bonuses we get? We have a medic bonus at +6% on my server. Maybe that’s it? Not sure if medic bonus affect healing bombs though.

Ah! That would explain the 6% difference between the model’s prediction (~221) and your results. Excellent.

Just wondering, where u getting your 1.82y scale from?

I did a couple different things. I set up a few different matrix equations, and I also took the results individually and calculated the level coefficient. I mean, I made some assumptions, and I like I said, I know it’s not perfect because the 1.82 isn’t a constant, it’s an approximation that lets us treat all this as a linear equation. That value, for my data alone, ranges from 1.82125 to 1.83125. Most of them hover around 1.82, though.

Edit: Level Coefficient = (EIB Heal – (0.1*Healing Power))/80

The formula doesn’t seem to work for downscaling.
I’m healing 59 at lvl 9 with 46 effective healing power and the medic +6% bonus.

http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/173107healingbomb2.jpg

At this lvl, we’re not even supposed to have access to this trait so I guess, they have a special way to calculate for downscaling.

Maullus.1273:

Lunar Corporation.5720:

Maullus.1273:

Sabyne.6329:

I tested it in frostgorge sound, not in the mist, so I believe the difference could be due to wvwvw bonuses we get? We have a medic bonus at +6% on my server. Maybe that’s it? Not sure if medic bonus affect healing bombs though.

Ah! That would explain the 6% difference between the model’s prediction (~221) and your results. Excellent.

Just wondering, where u getting your 1.82y scale from?

I did a couple different things. I set up a few different matrix equations, and I also took the results individually and calculated the level coefficient. I mean, I made some assumptions, and I like I said, I know it’s not perfect because the 1.82 isn’t a constant, it’s an approximation that lets us treat all this as a linear equation. That value, for my data alone, ranges from 1.82125 to 1.83125. Most of them hover around 1.82, though.

Edit: Level Coefficient = (EIB Heal – (0.1*Healing Power))/80

Good stuff I finally met a true guru! I can hardly pick up on linear equations, I have always said leave it up to the designers haha, but the fact that the bomb heals are so hard to really crunch for makes this forum pretty engaging!

In terms of downscaling when u enter a low level zone.. the case there may be more relative to hp percentage with heals than anything else. On a side note, Sabyne, any advice for an engi that is torn between heals and crits?

PEACE

healing power 1325, each bomb was 299!
didn’t expect it to be THAT pathetic. xD

Edit: 1425: 309

I think it should be adjusted to heal about 500 with 1100 healing power. My ele heals about 250 every attack (with the signet) and some attacks are twice as fast as placing bombs. My ele only has around 900 healing power.

Along with that the medkit 1-3 should be buffed to match the guardians heal coefficients for the dodge roll heal. My guardian has around 1100 healing power and heals over 2k on roll. My engi heals about 1600 with the same healing power and I have to stop all my pressure to use it.

YourOwnFear.2743:

I think it should be adjusted to heal about 500 with 1100 healing power. My ele heals about 250 every attack (with the signet) and some attacks are twice as fast as placing bombs. My ele only has around 900 healing power.

Along with that the medkit 1-3 should be buffed to match the guardians heal coefficients for the dodge roll heal. My guardian has around 1100 healing power and heals over 2k on roll. My engi heals about 1600 with the same healing power and I have to stop all my pressure to use it.

Yes, but we’re so versatile!

I kid, I kid.

But I’m interested in those numbers you mentioned. Is there a known formula for the Elementalist healing via casts? That seems to be a very similar mechanic. However, one is a skill and the other a trait, I’m not sure what the design philosophy is behind the relative power of one versus the other (skill vs. trait). It may make perfect design sense to have the healing skill of Ele have a greater ‘value’ than the trait of an Engi.

With respect to the Guardian, are you talking about the 15 point Honor trait, “Selfless Daring?” I’d be very interested in looking at that, as well. Does it have an internal cooldown? I’d love to compare the effectiveness of the heal, especially considering it has half the investment cost of EIB, not to mention you don’t have to take it in lieu of another trait like EIB. Though, the Guardian heal is limited by the amount of dodging the Guardian can do; I don’t know enough about Guardians to know whether or not they have a tool that can be used in conjunction with the dodge heal to grant them rapid endurance recovery. If not, their dodge heal may be higher than EIB, but with less frequency. It might work out to very similar healing over time.

No internal cd and guardians can spec into vigor on crit so basically constant uptime on vigor.

You are correct; after some testing, I found that the Guardian’s dodge-heal does not have an internal cooldown, and it appears as though the amount can be perfectly modeled by the following:

Assuming a level 80 character, and without any medic bonus.

Selfless Daring Heal = 129 + y,

where y is Healing Power, a minimum of 150 to account for that gained by investing 15 points in the Honor traitline. So we have:

Healing Power :: SD Heal
150 :: 279 (minimum)
165 :: 294
200 :: 329
794 :: 923
844 :: 973
1123 :: 1252
1238 :: 1367
1488 :: 1617
1638 :: 1767 (maximum in sPvP)

I wanted to compare a Guardian’s SD heal and an Engi’s EIB heal over time. If we assume that a Guardian can keep Vigor up almost constantly, then I was very much mistaken when I said it the two heals might even out over time. The Guardian’s heal provides more burst up front, and continues to pull ahead over time.

I took an average Healing Power value of 894 for both. I’d be happy to share the functions (and the assumptions made to arrive at them), but it’s not really relevant. Under ideal conditions an Engi can put out 7050 total healing from EIB over one minute. Under ideal conditions, with Vigor, a Guardian can put out 12,516 healing from SD alone, a difference of 5466 healing.

Now, this disparity seems substantial and, admittedly, on paper it is. However, after playing with the numbers for some time I realized something very simple, and very obvious: we’re not comparing apples to apples here.

It’s not fair to hold one skill up to another, because we cannot divorce the skill from the class that is using it. There are too many variables in play across classes to compare them in any but the broadest sense of the word. A Guardian has less base health than an Engineer. A Guardian has almost no range, an Engineer does. Low health and melee range is a recipe for disaster… unless that class has another way of adapting, such as substantial self-healing.

Focusing on the differences between classes and calling them inequities is unfair—no one wants to play a game where all the classes perform exactly the same and only the particle effects are different.

Now, that being said, we can look at the big picture and question the decisions being made. If Engineers are being penalized for “versatility” then why aren’t Elementalists also being penalized for that same reason? What exactly does “versatility” mean? What role(s) or contribution(s) does ANet see Engineers filling, or bringing, to dungeons? To sPvP/tPvP? To WvW?

These are good, and fair, questions to ask, and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect answers to those questions.

I wasn’t trying to get into comparing classes but they are the classes that fit the healing support role. I was just bringing that up since it seems we are taxed harder than the other healing support builds. I have a good feeling though that ele is going to get a good hard nerf in January. My ele heals a stupid amount while still being able to kill rather fast and having over 3k armor.

I would also like to add that although guardians don’t have as high base health, they do also have alot of damage mitigation skills to add to there effective health. Those damage mitigation skills also have healing tied into some of them and some of the skills are apart of the healing support builds anyways. I would go as far to say that guardians effective health is higher than the engineers so health isn’t a factor.