Guild Wars 2

RNG is only fair if all players experience it.

Examples: Card Games, the Risk boardgame, Axis and Allies

In this game only the engineer experiences RNG normally (there is RNG with procs, but that’s something everyone experiences).

When a player has RNG abilities versus another player who doesn’t, then the player without RNG abilities has a better chance of surviving because he 100% knows what his abilities will do at any given tine.

The engineer, when he uses his elixirs, does NOT 100% know the outcome of those elixirs. The engineer suffers as a result of that RNG.

An online MMO, if it features competitiveness (in PvE or PvP) should not have RNG in the base build of a class.

The engineer’s RNG on elixirs should be revamped, even if it might mean some abilities might be lessened a little. This at least gives us the ability to know exactly what an ability’s base skill will do.

I think one could argue that the RNG could also be the strength of the class. Because the opponent won’t know what proc you’re elixir is going to bring. It makes predicting what an engineer will do a bit more tricky.

I think the RNG is why the engineer can be a tough class to truly shine in, because one has to be good at adjusting on the fly. That’s sort of the reason I enjoy it even though I know I’ll never be a master of it. Perhaps it’s a part of the class that I will grow tired of at some point. I can always fall to a class that is more predictable.

There are both pros and cons to it. Also there’s ways of achieving reliability of some effect without using randomized elixirs. And if you’re trying to do something reliably that only a randomized elixir provides, consider that perhaps our class wasn’t meant to do that effect reliably. We’re not the only profession limited by design in what we can do.

That’s why I don’t use any of the randomized elixirs, randomized buffs are a terrible mechanic.

randomized buffs are a terrible mechanic the way they are implemented now.

if the buffs where good enough to warrant the random nature of them then i could see it. as it is they are too short and too little.

Toss Elixir S = Stealth OR Stability, once / minute.

so once / fight you get to have stealth or stability, but since both are buffs that are supposed to save your kitten and you have 50% chance of receiving the one that could save you.

how can you argue that this is a strength of the class?

I sometimes seriously question if it would even be overpowered if we received all/specific buffs instead of a random one. Some rebalancing afterwords certainly, but would be better then it is now.

I mean they are usable, but not in anyway shape or form dependable. Which is a problem.

Toss Elixir S, from what I’ve seen, are meant to be escape, mobility, or getaway buffs.

If you Toss Elixir S and you get stealth, then people can’t target you. Stealth helps in that it breaks target and prevents further targeted damage until the end of the duration.

If you Toss Elixir S and you get Stability, people can’t CC you. No CC means that you can move to your heart’s content.

But in the concept they are completely different. If you need something to get you out of CC, Stealth won’t help you. If you need something to make people break target on you, Stability won’t help you.

The initial idea is vaguely similar in that they can both apply getaway/defense concepts, but they are completely different in the way they do it. For a person using strategy, this is a poor ability to use.

Most of the time I’m tossing Elixir S is in the middle of a group battle to give one of those buffs to those around me to support them. I can’t say that I’ve really used it to get away. At that point I’m blocking and laying down stimulant for the swiftness buff and popping Elixir S if I get stunned. (dropping Box of Nails, Glue Gun if I’m without shield, Slick Shoes if I got that skill up, etc.)

personally im just using the 30pt neverending might buff stack and just use E X wreck some faces off provide that terror in their face as they try to stop me. and what great is that once your E X ends ur other E are up and your team can proceed to kill after teh terror you’ve caused.

Randomized conditions are good. Randomized buffs are useless.

Chaba.5410:

[…] And if you’re trying to do something reliably that only a randomized elixir provides, consider that perhaps our class wasn’t meant to do that effect reliably. […]

So why did they even bother to implement something that doesnt work reliable? Only a suicide would use a build that depends on a random effect. All others won’t even bother to bring this if they had a choice, cause it is a wasted slot. Let us be honest, if you could swap out the random effect for something reliable, you would definetly do it. Who wants to gamble when your life/ your party’s life is on the line?

In pve it is annoying in pvp it is suicide.

I beg to differ. Our randomized boons are very good if you take in consideration their length and their sinergies. If they take away the random, you can bet you won’t have 15 second boons on a 20/30 cooldown anymore. Can’t have it both ways, and as I said before, it works very well, if you don’t dismiss stuff for being random.

Sporadicus.1028:

In this game only the engineer experiences RNG normally (there is RNG with procs, but that’s something everyone experiences).

Mesmers have a fair bit of RNG in the boons they gain/give. While I agree that there’s a debate to be had about RNG skills, let’s not kid ourselves that ours is the only profession that has this mechanic.

Like I said in my previous post, I think it’s a mechanic you either love or hate. I personally love them because as Maskaganda mentioned there’s some nice synergy with them. Especially if you go deep into Alchemy. Oh man I love the synergy of chugging/tossing elixirs and traits in the Alchemy tree.

I am BrimstoneAshe and I am an Elixir B addict.

If you go deep into Alchemy though (like I do), then HGH and 409 give the Elixirs some dependable effects. It greatly diminishes the randomness.

It’s actually more of a con then a pro. Someone not knowing what you’re about to do doesn’t offer enough protection or confusion in pvp to justify YOU not knowing what you’re about to do. If the made potions like this for artificery people would not do artificer for the same reasons. To have this as a class mechanic is just the weirdest thing to me.

That being said. There are some buffs that should occur 100% of the time when using these potions. Like Elixir S should 100% of the time give us stability for both the thrown and the drink versions. Same for Elixir H, It should give protection 100% of the time. That way engineers can plan. If the Elixir gives other abilities say three for example and one is the protection then make protection 100% of the time and the other two the random ones.

The same can be said for the thrown spells. I personally never use the invis or the guardian wall of light. IMO these are completely useless (mainly because the guardian wall of light doesn’t even prevent the enemies from passing like my guardian’s spell does weird I know) but because we really need something that will work all the time. I think the Elixir U thrown ability should be fixed to the guardian’s wall should prevent enemies from moving thru it and should reflect the projectiles back at the sender, that would make it a formidable defense pot as well as a powerful offense from the drinking of it. The smokescreen is good however I think it would be best if they fixed the light one.

Sporadicus.1028:

If you Toss Elixir S and you get stealth, then people can’t target you. Stealth helps in that it breaks target and prevents further targeted damage until the end of the duration.

If you Toss Elixir S and you get Stability, people can’t CC you. No CC means that you can move to your heart’s content.

Stealth does not break target exactly, it will mostly work if you have mobility and get away from their cone of auto attack, I know because I both kill, and have been killed with stealth.
Stability, sure you can’t be cc’d but you’ll still just die, we’re a very squishy class unless you build for it.

The “S” in elixir S doesn’t stand for “shrink”, “stealth”, “stability” or “safety”.

It stands for “Stomp”.
And that’s how you use it.
shrink → FINISH HIM!
stealth → FINISH HIM!
stability → FINISH HIM!

Thenoob.1480:

Sporadicus.1028:

If you Toss Elixir S and you get stealth, then people can’t target you. Stealth helps in that it breaks target and prevents further targeted damage until the end of the duration.

If you Toss Elixir S and you get Stability, people can’t CC you. No CC means that you can move to your heart’s content.

Stealth does not break target exactly, it will mostly work if you have mobility and get away from their cone of auto attack, I know because I both kill, and have been killed with stealth.
Stability, sure you can’t be cc’d but you’ll still just die, we’re a very squishy class unless you build for it.

Stealth literally breaks target.

Man I just don’t get it… Elixir S meant for… escaping????

You should understand that it’s meant solely for stomping right? RIGHT??

Don’t get me wrong, I completely agree they should remove the RNG thingie, especially on the Elixir H, but seriously… Elixir S’ toolbelt is meant for stomping, period.

Alarox.4590:

Thenoob.1480:

Sporadicus.1028:

If you Toss Elixir S and you get stealth, then people can’t target you. Stealth helps in that it breaks target and prevents further targeted damage until the end of the duration.

If you Toss Elixir S and you get Stability, people can’t CC you. No CC means that you can move to your heart’s content.

Stealth does not break target exactly, it will mostly work if you have mobility and get away from their cone of auto attack, I know because I both kill, and have been killed with stealth.
Stability, sure you can’t be cc’d but you’ll still just die, we’re a very squishy class unless you build for it.

Stealth literally breaks target.

Maybe so, I just keep shooting and 1/3 of the time I have a dead enemy when it finally breaks, the other 2/3 is mostly because less are stupid enough to only stealth at low health I guess. Not to mention when I stealth either with traits or throwing elixir s, or smoke bomb combo, I keep being shot by direct damage, not aoe.
In any case, its a kittenty mechanic, probably compounded upon by culling.

Yes Elixir S tooltip specifically states it is a PvP skill only.
It is only meant for stomping.
It should never be used in PvE where getting Stability instead of Stealth can mean certain death.
In fact if I am not mistaken ALL our Elixirs are meant for PvP since the RNG is what gives us an advantage and is what seriously confuses our enemies. Ever toss and elixir and all of a sudden your opponant stops in pure shock as they try and figure out if you got the OP RNG boon or just some other one.

Thenoob.1480:

Maybe so, I just keep shooting and 1/3 of the time I have a dead enemy when it finally breaks, the other 2/3 is mostly because less are stupid enough to only stealth at low health I guess. Not to mention when I stealth either with traits or throwing elixir s, or smoke bomb combo, I keep being shot by direct damage, not aoe.
In any case, its a kittenty mechanic, probably compounded upon by culling.

Well if you are gonna act like Charlize Theron in Prometheus and try and run away from collapsing spaceship by running in a straight line along the direction it is falling instead of just to the side then……..

CriSPeH.8512:

Thenoob.1480:

Maybe so, I just keep shooting and 1/3 of the time I have a dead enemy when it finally breaks, the other 2/3 is mostly because less are stupid enough to only stealth at low health I guess. Not to mention when I stealth either with traits or throwing elixir s, or smoke bomb combo, I keep being shot by direct damage, not aoe.
In any case, its a kittenty mechanic, probably compounded upon by culling.

Well if you are gonna act like Charlize Theron in Prometheus and try and run away from collapsing spaceship by running in a straight line along the direction it is falling instead of just to the side then……..

If you read my first comment you’d note I was talking about when people are still in the cone of auto attack, it is annoyingly large, as often times when I’m trying to pick out 1 low player attacking a tower, I’ll suddenly spin 80 degrees to my right and fire at a pet, while having that person’s nameplate selected.