Guild Wars 2

Why not just make kits a 2nd weapon selection? I understand the toolbelt is supposed to subsidize this to a degree but getting 4 abilities with very long CDs instead of 5 abilities with much shorter CDs hardly seems like a fair trade off. Given that pistols/rifle are so one dimensional for play styles and every other characters have the ability to spec for the versatility of short range/long range without giving up a powerful utility slot, I can’t help but feel this is a big strike against Engi’s.

just a thought.

I’ve already posted a request in the Suggestions forum, which I think covers what you want. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Engineer-Stop-resetting-my-kits-please/first#post91323

sort of. not really.

I just don’t see the tool belt abilities as an even trade off to not having another weapon to swap to once all your main weapon abilities are on cool down – which can happen a lot when you can’t burst people down with 2 or 3 abilities like some other classes (which can swap weapons).

Tool Belt abilities = 4 abilities; long cool down, situational
2nd Weapon Set = 5 abilities; short/no cool down; maintain all utility slots
Kit abilities = 5 abilities; short/no cool down; lose one utility slot

In addition to the reasons stated in my OP, seems like a bit of a glass ceiling inhibiting the engi from performing the way the rest of the classes do.

Nah, I really like the way they work not. They work very well with the F key tool belt skills, they do not take up inventory space, and I think once they actually get the bugs with sigils and things of that nature, everyone will stop complaining about them.

coglin.1496:

Nah, I really like the way they work not. They work very well with the F key tool belt skills, they do not take up inventory space, and I think once they actually get the bugs with sigils and things of that nature, everyone will stop complaining about them.

The F key tool belt skills are fine but they are all long CD (30 – 90 sec) which makes them very situational at best. That can’t be compared to having a 2nd fresh set of 5 weapon abilities with short CDs.

My problem is, as an engineer my weapons have a one dimensional play style, and they don’t include super impressive burst. The dmg is decent, but not so fast that I can rely on only having to use a few skills regularly. Instead I kite around, using CC, elixirs, and what not to keep my foes(s) at distance. In which lies the problem. at multiple points in the fight I have everything on cool down and my opponent isn’t dead yet and all I’m doing is spamming autoattack at him. Meanwhile he can swap to a ranged weapon or melee weapon, whichever suits him better because I’ve got nothing to throw at him but a weak AA until my stuff comes off cool down.

It’s simply not an issue that other classes have and I don’t why it should be one for Engineers.

To be clear, I don’t want the Tool belt skills taken away. I just want to be able to swap to a single kit as a 2nd weapon choice when I have no other skills to use or the situation demands another play-style of me.

…But then I can’t have my super-versatile build that uses the medikit, flamethrower kit, elixir kit, and another kit of my choice to be able to do just about anything!

I like the play style of the engineer as it stands. I’m constantly kit swapping to take full advantage of the versatility of the profession.

hackks.3687:

The F key tool belt skills are fine but they are all long CD (30 – 90 sec) which makes them very situational at best. That can’t be compared to having a 2nd fresh set of 5 weapon abilities with short CDs.

That is not true. The highest recast on a kit tool belt skill 60s. I find every one of them besides the med kit to be solid consistent damage and control in almost all situations.

All the kits really need, is the sigil and auto attack issues solved, first and foremost. After that, just some damage adjustments and work on th missing issue with the FT and elixir gun cone spray abilities. They iron that stuff out and they will be solid.

hackks.3687:

That can’t be compared to having a 2nd fresh set of 5 weapon abilities with short CDs.

My problem is, as an engineer my weapons have a one dimensional play style, and they don’t include super impressive burst.

I have got a second fresh set of 5 weapon skills. I switch from pistols, to bomb kit, to grenade kit, back to pistols. Or I could. I don’t generally bother, because I don’t feel any particular need to do so. Generally, going from pistols to bombs & back suffices. That is the entire point of kits; that is why we don’t have an alternate weapon set, just the same as the Ele doesn’t AWS because they have the 4 elements that give them the equivalent flexibility.

All I can say is, if you’re playing your Engi with such a narrow weapon-based focus, not only are you short-changing yourself, I think you’ve also missed the point of the class. We don’t need super impressive burst; we’ve got super impressive flexibility!

Maybe I’m not being clear.

I just think engi’s should be able to weapon swap and the kits should be an option.

No trade offs. No losing the tool belt skills. Just allow us to pick one kit as an alternate weapon and if we want to slot more kits on our utilities then so be it. Every other class can do this and none of them have to sacrifice a utility slot to do so.

@ coglin – you’re right about the cd’s – I had to check once I got home – but the issue remains the same. 4 abilities with 20-60 sec cd’s is not comparable to 5 abilities with 0-20 sec cd’s. Even being as useful as they are they don’t fulfill the functionality that other classes enjoy by being able to weapon swap without giving up important utility slots.

What about this as a solution. Engineers are allowed to swap between 2 weapons unless they are using a weapon kit. If you take a weapon kit then your second set of weapons would be disabled.

coglin.1496:

hackks.3687:

The F key tool belt skills are fine but they are all long CD (30 – 90 sec) which makes them very situational at best. That can’t be compared to having a 2nd fresh set of 5 weapon abilities with short CDs.

That is not true. The highest recast on a kit tool belt skill 60s. I find every one of them besides the med kit to be solid consistent damage and control in almost all situations.

All the kits really need, is the sigil and auto attack issues solved, first and foremost. After that, just some damage adjustments and work on th missing issue with the FT and elixir gun cone spray abilities. They iron that stuff out and they will be solid.

Trouble is, how do you fix it without making it a weapon?

The reason the troubles are with the kits:

No weapon Stats
No ‘on swap sigils’
No sigil effects with kits
No auto attack remembered

These are all symptoms of kits not being weapons, of kits being ‘bundles’.
Which makes fixing them really hard. They have 3 options really:

One being something akin to what OP suggests, make kits count as weapons and somehow appear on the character screen.
One being a fundamental change to how all bundles work, which includes banners and conjures.
One being creating some new class of ‘weapon’ or ‘utility’ where kits are neither bundles or weapons.

Try picking up a spade somewhere in the world and set it as “auto attack”, then drop it, and pick it up.
Try getting your weapon stats to extend while using it.
Try getting an ‘on swap’ to trigger when picking it up/dropping it.
Try getting a sigil to proc when using it.

I do not find it vary logical to compare an environmental weapon that a player can randomly run across, to that of a kit that fills a utility slot, cost skill points, and is part of Anets decision as a utility, out of the limited amount of utilities offered.

A random, general public usable, “spade” is just not a logical comparison to a bomb, grenade, elixir gun or flame thrower kit, that are a designed portion of the profession.

coglin.1496:

I do not find it vary logical to compare an environmental weapon that a player can randomly run across, to that of a kit that fills a utility slot, cost skill points, and is part of Anets decision as a utility, out of the limited amount of utilities offered.

A random, general public usable, “spade” is just not a logical comparison to a bomb, grenade, elixir gun or flame thrower kit, that are a designed portion of the profession.

Its not comparable from a balance or ‘judgement’ perspective, but the point is they use the same mechanics and thats the point. Mechanically speaking, a kit, MIGHT cost you a utility slot, have traits and so on, but MECHANICALLY, it operates on the same principles as a spade you find.

And that’s the trouble, people want kits to work like weapons, with sigils, weapon stats and auto attack, but kits themselves are not weapons.

Try jumping off something high and try toggling off a kit.
Try making a new character, and make sure to never pick up an environmental object till level 5, where you equip a kit. You will get a tip saying “You’ve just equipped an environmental weapon, environmental weapons are…”
Look at the rune of the engineer, it buffs bundles, bundles are another word for environmental weapons… which are kits.
Try picking up a flamethrower from the ‘always prepared’ trait. You’ll notice that if you pick it up, with a flamethrower in your utility bar that isn’t equipped goes into ‘stow mode’, which shows you that a flamethrower picked up off the ground, is exactly the same mechanically, as a flamethrower equipped via utilities.

Plus, it also explains why engineers don’t benefit from ‘on swap’ sigils. If indeed you swapped to a kit, and swapped out from a kit, then it should indeed count. But you are not ever weapon swapping, which is what constitutes the ‘on swap’ sigils, all you are doing is ‘dropping’ and ‘picking up’ a kit.

Thing of kits as a rock that is picked up via utilities, and not your interface when you use the F key.

This has been suggested repeatedly since beta, and I feel it would end up being a substantial nerf.

As it is now, Engineers are allowed to carry more than one kit. Some builds roll with 3, even.

Your suggestion would be a hard-clamp at 1.