Guild Wars 2

Med kit animation, I Find it to be useful for checking on global cool down

so:

1. keep animation
2. add a secondary effect ( stun breaker / 2s Stability ) on a 20-30s cool down

KR global cd itself would take care of keeping it balanced, and it would basically add a new cool aspect to the game/play style

Love my engineer since release, adapted every HUGE cough nerf (really, the sea of tears after every little change in this forums is downright ridiculous ) and looking forward for the patch. there will be plenty new builds available if they fix turrets! I like the idea of a turret-kit!

Keep up the good work!

if they nerf kit refinement hard then we loose a very special build possibility. I hope they buff some other parts of the engineer. I do not like turrents so I hope we get not only turrent love

One build less, a good chance for another semi-useless trait, useless buffs for useless turrets from clueless devs, Super Elixir might get a kick in the nuts just for a change again – in other words business as usual.

Maybe a buff to rifle turret could improve static discharge builds (to give them a reason to nerf SD in April?).

After all it looks like HGH will be the only way to go if you want some damage (if it isn´t that already).

The worst RNG effect the Engineer has to deal with is patch day.

King Stinkeye.3560:

The worst RNG effect the Engineer has to deal with is patch day.

hahahah! so true it hurts :P

Rifle turret being a set up to have a reason to nerf static discharge, wouldnt doubt it

and as for turrets in general… we should all keep low expectations, very low expectations cause the only thing that could save turrets, its a complete redesign.. even if they boost damage a little, doesnt change the fact that they die on 2 hits or have stupid long CD

In my opinion the Devs see the engineer in the vision of PvP and not WvW. I really would like to start seeing them making things more WvW centric.

On a side note, the boon spiking engineer is getting a minor damage boost because it uses both rifle and thumper turrets.

I hate this company. Dont know what to say else…..
KR is the only thing that makes this class fun and competive. If they remove the super elixir i will join the rest of my guild/friendlist, screw that horrible broken piece of fail they dare to call a game.

Every fking patch i have to change my build to compensate some deathnerfs.
Last patch klilled my EG/FT build, the patch before killed my nadebuild, now i play EG/toolkit and they are going to kill it again. Its ridicoulus, they remove the only way to handle conditions beside that stupid elixirs.

aydenunited.5729:

That’s just the problem.

I guess we just disagree that changing things slowly is as big a problem. I think they could go a little bit quicker, but not by much. I’ll just wait and enjoy what I have now.

Swagg.9236:

(as above)

As for having specialists, we don’t know if they have them or not. I’m not going to get into whether a company should have specialists or generalists in regards to balance as that is a topic that can be heavily debated among game designers, but as to this specific instance we couldn’t even have a chance for specialists because frankly they only had 3 people on the show. Bringing in another 8 additional people for specific balance discussion was simply not something that appeared to be asked for by the community beforehand. It’s always about dissecting the feedback and prioritizing it. I don’t think people understand what it’s like to be in their shoes at all, because from my position I see them as extremely caring about the community.

I mentioned very specifically I say low amounts of RNG. When I referenced low amounts of RNG I mentioned Critical Hits. I never associated the current high state of Elixir RNG with Critical Hits. You are assuming things about what I wrote that are incorrect. I hate the current state of Elixir RNG. I’m one of the bigger advocates on these forums for radically reducing the unreliability of our Elixirs and flat out buffing the Tossed Elixirs so they are actually supportive to allies. As a short example, I think Elixir B should always grant Swiftness and additionally grant one of the other 3 buffs. What they described about Elixir U changes actually aligns with what I want, radically reduced RNG and dependable effects. I like their comments on it, and I’m glad they’ve finally discussed that they acknowledge we hate the RNG.

In regards to Kits, I honestly don’t know what the devs are thinking about them. I do think they at least are designed to sometimes use the Auto-Attack, or they wouldn’t have balanced the Grenade Auto. I personally think they should change it so Grenade, Bomb, and Elixir Gun no longer have autos and just have new #1 cooldown related abilities, but that’s not really what I was discussing here. I agree that Kits are optimally in many cases used best for their cooldowns and not their autos, which is why I have the above opinion of removing most of them.

I am not an advocate of homogenizing them by any means, as they can have many different styles. I want more hybridization, but not complete hybridization. The main place I want hybridization is not even our weapon sets and kits, it’s actually in places such as Downed State. Our weapon sets could use little tweaks, but we are one of the closest to being hybrid viable out there. Other classes need a lot of work in this regard though. I was merely pointing out to Goloith in this case that I think the hybridization concept is perfectly viable, and that the game needs more of it and not less of it.

Goloith.6349:

In my opinion the Devs see the engineer in the vision of PvP and not WvW. I really would like to start seeing them making things more WvW centric.

Why do you think that is the case? I don’t think we are much worse off then any other profession out there. I actually think we are great in WvW. Could you elaborate?

I am not gonna rage quit if they further nerf the refined kits trait. The burst is very strong and I think this game has too much burst. But the facts remain:
- it is extremely difficult to pull off a 100nades burst to full effect, against anything which is not a zombie e.g. compare this with the frenzy+100 blades or c&d,steal,backstab burst, which are easier to pull off
- you need to also spend 30 points to grenadier grandmaster trait. Grenades are pretty weak without this trait. Engineer was supposed to be “king of versatility”, yet Anet is forcing the players to single spec to get anything useful out of engineer.
- you need to be a full glass cannon with very little defense e.g .compare this with D/D elementalist, which has superb condition removal, healing, mobility, yet still very good dps. Everytime I play D/D elementalist, it feels like a faceroll compared to engineer.

Here is a very simple fix Anet could do:
- Reduce the kit refinement damage by 50%, but remove internal cooldown and keep the utility effects (condition removal)
- Slightly increase the #1 attack damage for all engineer weapons and kits e.g. 20% damage buff (only to attack #1). Having an easier access to sustained damage would make this profession much more beginner friendly
- Decrease the cooldown most utility skills. 60 sec is way too much and currently almost all the powerful engineer attacking builds require relatively close range (or even closer than melee range with the 100nades). Yet engineer has medium armor and lacks the get away/disengagement options e.g. what thief has.

Goloith.6349:

In my opinion the Devs see the engineer in the vision of PvP and not WvW. I really would like to start seeing them making things more WvW centric.

Really? I think the Engineer is perfectly fine in WvW. I love using the Tool Kit and pulling people into the horde.

Where I’m concerned is the Engineer fading out of existence in PvE.

nothing about Flamethrower buff again ><
and only solo-target improvements and nothing about mass-battles. Engies will be useless again. What point in nerf some stuff against single target and then... buff some stuff against single target??

Ayestes.1273:

I guess we just disagree that changing things slowly is as big a problem. I think they could go a little bit quicker, but not by much. I’ll just wait and enjoy what I have now.

They could do changes more quickly if they would use this new idea I came up with. A server that is open to customers that you place test code on and let customers test out balance and find bugs with. I am such a genius to think of this new and innovative method that no other MMO has ever used. Anet just scared to use my idea because it is so new and not proven method of helping QA process.

bromi.7809:

“Engineers are a mid-range class” No they aren’t.

Yes they are. In a sense that we stay close to ranged enemies and a bit far from melee ones, effectively dishing damage in both ranges from almost all our weapons.
Most other professions have to dictate their own distance to win and we can choose the one which is good for situation.

having immobilise skills that basically miss over 240range? etc etc

Man. Rifle 4, Pistol 5, grenade 4, bomb 5, magnet 5, net turret are all very reliable CONTROL, no other class can bring this amount of control with him.

Engineers [don’t] have some strong options at range too

This one i can agree with you.

Um most class actually are not stuck with 1 range asspect. Only class that are is a Ele really due to no weapon swap and maybe guardian but they can have range too so extent. Ever other class can function at range and melee just fine.

I really love the engineer. but If you want us to be a mid range class you had better do another buff to the flamethrower, i posted a modest suggestion thread on this myself a week or so ago. Eg also. I know they where recently buffed, but its still insufficient.

Right now, 90% of pvp engy builds revolve around greande, which additimately is most effective at mid range.

I definitely see the need for a Turret Kit as mentioned in this thread. It would solve a lot of things, as I’ve never seen the need for the lousy turret and the mediocre tool belt skills they add.

The problem I can see with it is that every engineer would throw down all turrets at all times however (high return for one utility slot).

Maybe if untraited we could only place two turrets at once from the Turret Kit, and every minor trait in the Inventions line in addition to the current effect allowed for one additional turret to be placed. It’s breaking a lot of design consistency rules, but who cares at this point. Turrets are simply not wanted in its current form.

Oh, and if you weigh in-game whispers favorably to balance your classes (seriously, what?) you probably need to widen your sample a bit more!

Anyway, looking forward to some much needed attention to the class.

So they take away one of our two sources of invisibility?
No more veil from Toss Elixir U?
And most importantly no more Ethereal combo field from it for confusion via projectile and chaos armor via jump/blast?

Sad Panda here, if they really implement it.
Although I appreciate the randomness getting looked at, I don’t appreciate the deletion of veil.
IF it procs, it is a nice defensive ability against every profession, not only against projectile based attacks.

I’d like the randomness to be solved like this: elixirs have a different outcome depending on your spec.
Maybe set up (passive) traits that will make the elixirs not random anymore, so that if you spec accordingly you will always get the result you want from otherwise random abilities.
And if you don’t spec into this trait randomness stays random.

Moddo.7105:

Ayestes.1273:

I guess we just disagree that changing things slowly is as big a problem. I think they could go a little bit quicker, but not by much. I’ll just wait and enjoy what I have now.

They could do changes more quickly if they would use this new idea I came up with. A server that is open to customers that you place test code on and let customers test out balance and find bugs with. I am such a genius to think of this new and innovative method that no other MMO has ever used. Anet just scared to use my idea because it is so new and not proven method of helping QA process.

Haha, the sarcasm is so heavy it could sink a battleship.

Pannonica.5378:

I’d like the randomness to be solved like this: elixirs have a different outcome depending on your spec.
Maybe set up (passive) traits that will make the elixirs not random anymore, so that if you spec accordingly you will always get the result you want from otherwise random abilities.
And if you don’t spec into this trait randomness stays random.

Hrm, elixir refinement like kit refinement. Wait, wait. I got this one……. Elixir Distillation! Instead of RNG between two effects, it will cycle through each one in order. First toss is Smoke Screen. Second toss is Wall of Reflection. Third toss is Smoke Screen. And so on.

Perfect. I like this idea because it satisfies everyone. Some of us still like a little randomness and can still have it by not taking that trait.

“Did he fire six shots or only five?”

Don’t forget the veil!
It is not dead yet. ;(

blutstein.2468:

Love my engineer since release, adapted every HUGE cough nerf (really, the sea of tears after every little change in this forums is downright ridiculous ) and looking forward for the patch. there will be plenty new builds available if they fix turrets! I like the idea of a turret-kit!

Keep up the good work!

Honestly, I’d equip and play around with a turret kit. However, there is no change they could make to turrets as they are that would cause me use them other than net turret occassionally. It would have to be turning them into a kit. If they doubled the damage of every turret, grenade kit, bomb kit, and even flamethrower would generate more damage and also provide some mobility.

So ANET has to do one of two things to turrets to make them useful.
1. Add some measure of mobility.
2. Increase the damage significantly…like reeaaalllly significantly(not like 10%)… since something that can be oneshot destroyed and is completely immobile should legitimately punish the person stupid enough to be hit by it.

But doing that would require massive changes to engineer traits and I don’t see them doing that.

I wouldn’t give turrets absolute massive damage, this would lead to yet another burst specc soon to be nerfed again…

What turrets need for me is:

- better survivability, they die too fast, traited or not, repaired with tool kit or not

- instant working overcharge abilities, when we need those, we need them NOW… not ‘soonish’

- shorter cooldowns on everything: the turret itself, the overcharge ability and the toolbelt skill in a few cases.

- and last, but in my view least: some more damage, but nothing spectacular IF they get tons of better utility!

No, they need a substantial increase in damage. If a turret build is going to be viable, then opponents should be afraid of turrets and NEED to take them out, otherwise there is no need for the turrets. More utility is not going to make the turrets more fearsome, all you will be doing is turning them into mechanical totems.

turrets need to hurt people so that people target the turrets instead of the engie who is (actually capable of) healing a turret that is under direct attack from an enemy, with enough success that the turret is able to replace the engineer’s damage in a battle.

healing stats need to effect the engie’s ability to heal his turrets. turrets need to be the beneficiaries of boons like might and regen and all the rest. tossing elixirs should effect turrets, etc.

Essentially, if Anet is going to allow rogues to have permanent stealth, an engie ought to be able to keep a set of turrets alive against at least one rogue who is sneaking about and trying to burst down a turret the engie is within range of repairing.

the balance is that it forces the opponent to aggro the engie (the healer) allowing the (turret) dps to work on the foe. Now damage shouldn’t be so high that a turret can burst like a rogue, but threatening enough that if the foe focuses too long on the engie, the turret becomes a threat again. (and a smart engie would have kited the foe away from the turret to have time to dps a bit before healing the turret again)

side note; i don’t think turrets should be a kit, I think each turret we have ought to be a “kit” unto itself, and when deployed, you can stow the kit controls for your weapons or another kit, leaving the toolbelt as destroy. Your overcharge would just become an ability. swap to the healing turret “kit” drop the overcharge ability, maybe tell it to toss out some bandages (on a high cooldown) or A bandage (shorter cooldown), swap to net turret “kit” overcharge, tell it to drop some caltrops (medium cooldown), maybe an oil slick (long cooldown), switch to toolkit do some repairs, throw some more nails on the ground.

it wouldn’t be hard, anet.

Honestly I would just give turrets stunbreakers and condition cleanses. Adding damage might make them viable for PvE or for some kind of weird glass cannon turret build. We already have better options for control and better options for damage.

I suppose if turrets got so much damage that we no longer needed to take a kit, there could be a turret build. That sounds a little weird, though. And that would take a really big damage buff.

I am very excitedly waiting the update in a couple weeks, but after listening to the recent podcast I’m a little concerned.
The dev’s mentioned adding in +damage depending on how many boons your opponent has to counter some of the bunker builds when they were talking about elementalist.
I know this is super speculative but if these get added to the wrong traits or skills it could potentially make stacking huge might stacks with elixers very harmful because of the added boons.

lets take the most complex and challenging class to play and make it complete stationary and boring. Awesome, cant stop to womit.

Engis have the 2 most boring utility types in the game, turrets and elixirs, they dont need buffs they need to be removed because turrets will ever fail in a game like gw2.

Get rid of Toss Elixir S RNG. Make it always stealth or always stability. I don’t really care which, I’m just constantly annoyed when I need one and I get the other.

just wondering - who have asked for turrets buff? don’t they see we need something another?

chrisk.4320:

Get rid of Toss Elixir S RNG. Make it always stealth or always stability. I don’t really care which, I’m just constantly annoyed when I need one and I get the other.

I don’t think it’d be too strong to just do both.

SilverWF.4789:

just wondering – who have asked for turrets buff? don’t they see we need something another?

I apologize if this wasn’t meant to be taken literally, but a lot of threads on this forum alone have asked for turret buffs in some form.

Too bad they didnt talk about gadgets though, many of them need some help.

They did they say wanted to buff many of the crappy utility skills out there as a generalist topic. You could put gadgets in there.

Ayestes.1273:

Why do you think that is the case? I don’t think we are much worse off then any other profession out there. I actually think we are great in WvW. Could you elaborate?

I thought the Engineer was fine in WvW until I played other professions. I’ll list the few that I have tried:

Warrior: Can do an incredible amount of damage in or out of a zerg. They also can play support better than the engineer with their shouts and banners. They still can DPS while they’re in PVT armor fairly well – Engineer can’t even possibly do that much damage and even my loved Boon Spiking Engineer that can do 40s seconds of 18 stacks of might for a party of 5 is not as effective as that warrior with shouts, his DPS, and his survivability.

Guardian: Don’t get me wrong this is a profession that an Engineer can take on in a 1vs1 and win because he can kite them in WvW, but when it comes to total utility the Guardian out boons them, removes conditions almost as good as them, has access to speed without having to trait for it, can do more damage, and has more survivavility.

Mesmer: They are practically the most important profession in competitive WvW. They have stealth/portal/timewarp. They can remove boons and conitions, they do an incredible amount of DPS and have a ton of survivabilty. Have you ever used the endurance sigil ikittenerg on zerg fight? 100% endurance to dodge to repeatedly shatter clones. Now they are allowing them to hit more than one target with sceptor & greatsword. Like the one guy said in the interview this is going to be OP as ever.

Thief: haven’t played but are insane at soloing people with little skill. Yes gear block and elixir s are glorious for them to waste all their skills on.

Ranger:……GS ranger here we come. Tbh they need more

Necro: incredibly powerful in a group, but yes they need bug fixes.

I can only compare it to my Mesmer for first hand, and I like my Engineer more. They are needed for Portal Bombs and Time Warping Golems though, I’ll admit. The only thing we have even close to that is Mortar for the #5 to deal kill off deep siege weapons on the walls, but Ele’s have Meteor Storm for that too.

But whether it’s rolling around in the guild zerg throwing grenades into the ground at invisible enemies I can’t see or roaming around in a small group taking camps I never feel like I’m behind. Perhaps I do need to finish leveling up my Warrior and take him into the field, but even from the videos I’ve watched I don’t see much difference in the grand scheme of things. Are there better builds out there for WvW in different professions? Yeah, I think there are. I don’t think they are significantly better the point where it makes us irrelevant though. We could use some changes, but I don’t think it’s that bad and many other classes need the same kind of changes.

A lot of my comments on general in this thread agree with what everyone is writing in terms of the topic, I just don’t agree with the severity of the issues that seem to portrayed here. Exaggeration make it even more unlikely that a dev can take our discussion seriously as well, so it’s really just unhelpful. Perhaps I’m misreading some of this and that’s my own fault, but I don’t think we are as bad off as many people seem to portray.

Oh, nice. I was going to suggest that change to Throw Elixir U myself. Saves me trouble.

It was too random having two counter-projectile spell and a stealth one. That made it unreliable vs projectiles. And since stealths lasts so little, it wasn’t useful to make a cover to run away either.

I’m not happy with the fact that they said turrets are going to stay as boring and un-interactive as they are now. I hope they at least increased their firerates so they aren’t as boring to watch as they are to use…

InfamousBrad.5879:

The subject of boon stacking came up in one other regard: their explanation for why thief spike damage is so high is that they were specifically worried that, since they were striking from stealth, they wouldn’t be able to use a boon stripping ability first, so they needed to be able to hit through any plausible combination of boons. They admitted that this made them too powerful against other builds, and said that they can’t do anything about that unless they decide to nerf boons across the board, which they said they’re considering, but only very cautiously if at all. That part really would hit elixir engineers, but no harder than it would hit several other classes.

thief spike damage is so high … to be able to hit through any plausible combination of boons…(and ANet) can’t do anything about that.

Seriously?

I don’t even….

I love it…

The moment 100nades gained popularity, the other classes started to cry and whine because they simply do not, or will not, understand the Engineer class, and what we have to deal with. Within several weeks, nerfed AGAIN.

I’ve played other classes, and unlike the Engineer, you don’t have to do “keyboard gymnastics”(what Chaba said earlier). Extremely impressive utilities.

The more I think about the interview, the more convinced I am that they have no idea what to do with the Engineer. It’s like they invented a class as a ‘filler’…

We’ll just wait and see. Like some, I’m trying to be optimistic, and keep in good spirits.

We who play this class are a bit pessimistic at the stuff surrounding the Engineer. It’s a shame that this class that everyone here loves is just getting the crap beat out of it by the ANet devs.

Ayestes I love my Engineer and my 100% condition build is meant for taking camps, 1 vs. 1-2 , but I just really wish that they would make some radical changes. So what if the Engineer for one patch is OP, maybe we will actually see increased enrollment of Engineers verse bleeding numbers.

In all honesty I’d probably run my Engineer in WvW full-time again if they just fixed half the buggy equipment out there like Runes of Lyssa & Mad King and fix Giver’s weapon stats (condition duration).

Yes runes and Giver’s needs to give condition duration, that bug gives me a headache. I do agree we are awesome at ripping apart camps solo, but you don’t necessarily need 100% condi-duration to do that. I loved your build though when it could actually function, and hopefully it will again soon.

I just don’t think they need to make radical changes, but perhaps that depends on how we each define radical.

Ayestes.1273:

Perhaps I’m misreading some of this and that’s my own fault, but I don’t think we are as bad off as many people seem to portray.

I don’t think we are, either.

The Grenade Kit does great damage even without Kit Refinement. Being a PBAoE skill actually kind of flies in the face of how the rest of the kit works—as a ranged option. I understand some people are very attached to their “100nades” setup but nerfing it hardly kills the Engineer’s viability in PvE or PvP with the Grenade Kit. A lot of Grenade Kit users don’t even have any points in Tools in the first place. 30/10/0/30/0 is just as common a spec, and arguably is better for spreading conditions.

The Bomb Kit, too, is just fine. It probably has the best #1 skill of all the kits in damage output and Elixir-Infused Bombs is a viable support-role alternative.

The Flamethrower probably could use a buff to be competitive with the Grenade Kit in damage, but it is a tankier option and I love playing with it. It synergizes well with the Elixir Gun and provides a great balance of damage and support. I feel like the FT/EG build is actually closest to what the developers intended the Engineer to be—as a mid-range, tanky class that provides ample damage and support. Give Flame Blast a finisher and give Napalm a circular radius we can call it a wrap.

And the Tool Kit shines so bright in sPvP/WvW it’s almost idiotic not to use it.

Where people come off saying the Engineer is busted is beyond me, but I feel the internet more commonly pulls out the negativity of people rather than their positivity. I just hope that somehow ANet is able to look past all the negativity.

Edit: Miswrote numbers!

Phineas Poe.3018:

Where people come off saying the Engineer is busted is beyond me, but I feel the internet more commonly pulls out the negativity of people rather than their positivity. I just hope that somehow ANet is able to look past all the negativity.

It’s nice to see some positive stuff in the Engi forum. I’ve all but stopped posting because of all the hyperbolic whining. Love my Engi as much as—if not more than—any other MMO character I’ve ever played. I’ve played nearly 600 sPvP matches as an Engi, and logged quite a few hours in WvW and PvE dungeons/fractals. Engi isn’t perfect, and the amount of time some of these bugs have survived is silly, but Engi is still awesome.

Sure, we’re getting nerfed. It also sounds like we’re getting some buffs and fixes. People crying about this is bizarre. It’s like they’ve never played an MMO before.

Goloith.6349:

Guardian: Don’t get me wrong this is a profession that an Engineer can take on in a 1vs1 and win because he can kite them in WvW

And this in the end is a serious issue i have with the game, it is very much built around “kite to win”…

digiowl.9620:

Goloith.6349:

Guardian: Don’t get me wrong this is a profession that an Engineer can take on in a 1vs1 and win because he can kite them in WvW

And this in the end is a serious issue i have with the game, it is very much built around “kite to win”…

Tbh that’s one of the problem’s I’ve noticed while running in WvW with my Guardian. I’ve seen too many of them make the same mistake by not swapping to Sceptor-Shield/Focus while they run solo to catch up with the friendly zerg. Just having Staff and GS/Hammer is not good enough lol. OP in zergfests.

It great to hear that they will be focusing on engineer this month and providing more buff changes and balances to make some of our other options more “potentially viable”
This is positive news compared to the past patches and discussions; not to mention they have been slowly buffing and “balancing” (cough) engi.

The only problem I have with the stream was that (no offense to the anet but..) I felt it could have been more prepared and optimised to have a better setting. We had only two people to talk and provide “important” opinions, but they were only limited to what they played and heard. It would have been great to have someone be able to provide experienced insight on behalf of the engineer community and likewise to all professions.
When Karl pulled out the notes saying there’s a few pages with regards to balancing engineer, I was gutted that we didn’t much in depth response and it really did sound like he had not much understanding of the engineer current flaws. However he did it to all other professions so….we at least we got 7 minutes.
All hearts go to rangers- 2 minutes discussion on mainly longbow(now sending my pity love to them through cyber space <3.)

Not, Flamethrower is an offensive option and must be buffed. But grenades must me defensive.

SilverWF.4789:

just wondering – who have asked for turrets buff? don’t they see we need something another?

I agree with a lot of the gripes, but I cannot agree with this one. If there is something so horrible about a class that people aren’t even asking for it to be fixed, it makes them look very bad. The state of turrets make ANET look like they haven’t thought about turrets since Beta Weekend 1 or even before beta. Turrents currently function in an alpha state not a beta state.

It does make sense that they would want to fix them regardless of who is asking.

SilverWF.4789:

just wondering – who have asked for turrets buff? don’t they see we need something another?

So you’d rather they stay useless in dungeons? I would love to center my playstyle around them.

The problem I have with the idea of nerfing anything on the Engineer right now is that the class is underpopulated and on the lower end in terms of what they give to a group. Nerfing the best build insinuates all builds will be considered balanced when they meet this post-nerf level, so you’re essentially taking an already unpopular class and taking away the most powerful thing about it.

I would rather they moved Kit Refinement up the tree. I agree it’s very strong, but not compared with most 30s. So why not make it the XII trait and move the rest down. Then maybe rebalance a bit. I don’t feel the Blast from grenades is that bad, due to the amount of setup it need, but if it’s the burst that is an issue, lower the damage or number of grenades and then lower the internal cooldown so it gives a bit more sustained damage, rather than one off burst. The Healing Kits ability is a bit wierd, it should be something like a condition cleanse or a healing kit drop, a blast makes no sense. The Bomb also feel a bit tacked on, seeing as you get the same on a dodge.