Guild Wars 2

Engineer Revamp Plan

I’ll open up with a blatant statement of how Engineer can be improved reasonably. I understand perfectly that the developers planed for this class to be extremely under-powered, and a horrible support sidekick. Well, if the developers plan to show some love sooner or later, here’s several ideas of mine that I personally prefer to implement.

I. Turrets
As many of us Engineers know, turrets are some of the abilities that distinguish Engineer from the other classes. The current state of these machines are more of a burden than support.

Problems: Turrets recharge far too slow for stationary weaponry. Whenever an Engineer decides to deploy turrets, which occupies one of the precious skill slot that Engineer has, the risk one takes well exceed the potential rewards. Then, even with turret plating and improvement traits the developers have implemented, the turrets are still more of a burden than actual function at this current state.

EX. An Engineer takes a walk in WvW, a Mesmer happens to engage in combat with him. If the two classes were truly balanced, I think by filling one’s utility slots with multiple turrets should render the ability of the Engineer to keep the clones at bay. However, this is not the case. Even with Supply Drop and its additional turrets, a Mesmer can easily kite and destroy the turrets eventually, leaving a huge opening. Then it comes the CDs, Engineer has to wait for his turrets, while Mesmer just keep pressing 1 and clones fly toward the Engineer like mosquitoes on steroid. In addition, Mesmer doesn’t need to occupy his utility slot for regular clones.

Solution: Create a Turret Kit, create new trait. The turret kit would contain all five types of turrets: Rifle, Missile, Net, Thumper, and Flame turret. The Tool Belt Skill would expand from F1 – F4 to F1 – F6. The other functions remain identical prior to the change. Then, reduce the Cool Downs for all turrets by 50%. Also, if the turret is detonated above 50 percent health, its Cool Down would once again be reduced by 50 percent. (Current Rifle Turret would have 10 second cool down, if detonated properly, 5 second CD) Other professions may cry “OP” in regard to this idea, however, they must remember that turrets are stationary assets. Engineer is suppose to dominate Point Defense, not a Mesmer who spams clones.

II. Elixirs

Elixir is another special ability that Engineer has, distinct from other professions. However, Elixirs’ randomnesses and long Cool Downs are ridiculous and prevent applications.

Problem: As much as this fresh and innovative idea/class appeals to MMO players’ eyes, it remains underdeveloped and lackluster. Engineer is a symbol of versatility, then why would an individual must be forced into a specific build to achieve other classes’ performance who are also classes of versatility? (Ele) Elixirs shouldn’t take up more than one utility slot.

Solution: Like previously mentioned, Elixir Kit. Fit every Elixir out there excluding Elixir H into this kit. The same concept applied for my turret proposal would implement in this kit, as well. But the toss elixir capability should be replaced by an AoE buff like the Healing Turret’s Tool Belt skill. Engineer has quite a lot to handle already, adding in Ground Targeting is a nuisance. Then, the randomness. No one would want a stealth wall when a giant AoE comes in an Engineer’s way. Then nobody appreciates a reflective wall when one desires a stealth wall. The CDs of the Elixir can remain due to the fact that I expanded their accessibility.

EX. In a group combat situation, an Engineer plans to deploy a Stealth Wall for his allies to retreat. In such perilous situation, the Engineer uses Toss Elixir U, then resulted in a reflector wall. The awkward second of silence has plunged the entire team into depression.

EX. In a one on one situation, an Engineer attempts to disengage through utilizing Toss Elixir S to “hope” for a stealth buff. However, he becomes a giant, therefore an easy target practice dummy. Whoever misses such an enormous creature in combat needs a new eye prescription.

III. Survival

For far too long, Engineer has fallen under the impression of a slow-legged turtle who travels less than a centimeter per day. Just about every other profession has the capability of escaping if one puts his/her mind upon the matter. Fleeing however, is not an option for most Engineers.

Problem: From the two problems I have suggested above, one can infer that Engineer has already used up his Utility Slots, or only has one precious slot left. Is it really balanced for a class to under-perform even when one uses all Utility Slots for offensive maneuvers, and yet one cannot escape from any desperate situations?

Solution: Create a Survival Kit. No I’m kidding. Create an Elite Skill that has 240 seconds of Cool Down named “Asura Gate.” This skill is very similar to Mesmer’s Portal, however, a much longer range. Asura Gate is a skill which allows an Engineer to construct a “Recall-Point” at a specific location. When the Engineer wishes to escape from a dangerous situation, he can create a portal (built by machine instead of Mesmer’s “magic”) which sustains for 15 seconds. All allies including the skill user can utilize this spacial portal to escape to safety. This skill will truly bring Engineer into the light and makes it become one of the indispensable class in both PVE and PVP contents.

Conclusion: With the ideas presented above, Engineer would truly become the model of versatility. It also provides one the ability to specialize in an area (Allocate Traits) if wanted. If the solutions above apply, Engineer would finally be able to possess the same learning curve and capability comparing to other classes.

Note: This is my personal opinion and proposal. Opinions may differ, please do not attack me personally. Give constructive criticism, not incoherent, irrational, or uneducated remarks that lack train of thought that fail to contribute to the given topic

Agree with pretty much everything you proposed here. Really like the idea of a “turret kit”. Now, imagine if they fixed deployable turrets…then implemented your ‘turret kit’ idea. We might have something there!

@GluttonyFang.2439

Your idea about turrets isn’t bad, but I think it’d take too many tweaks and isn’t exactly viable to program/change the F1-4 skills, you should also consider they HAVE some utility, they need to be reworked, also their toolbelt skills can synergize with many other builds, even while completely diregarding the turret itself.

I’d like to contribute so I’ll start with my ideas on how to improve those skills:

1st turrets

As stated above turrets HAVE long CDs, but that’s because they don’t go in cooldown when their overcharge skill becomes available, we NEED turrets’ cooldowns to work like thieves’ “steal” skill, and maybe a lil cut on CDs anyway should be okay, even after the “steal-like” fix.

Now back to the main problems

1st-weak, the turrets can’t exactly take much damage, and mobs usually go for them first, we could say that, against mobs’ AI, placing a turret works just like “Decoy” for a mesmer, so to make up for this I came up with an idea, as flame turret has a smoke field to protect itself on overcharge then why don’t we use the “overcharge” skills in general to give turrets some sort of “self-protection”?

This is also not to make players simply spam it for more DPS, more tactical requirements depending on situations, smarter usage in general.

We could make overcharges like this:

-rocket turret’s hits to also cause a 240rad field of oil that makes foes slip and knockdown every 2-3s to protect it

-rifle turret to turn its attack into static shot to blind enemies

-thumper turret to spawn a caltrops field that cripples foes to keep’em in its knockdown range

-simple “protection” or “reflection” buffs on net/healing turret could work, but “metal plating” trait should synergize with it, not conflict.

Also, another big problem related to turrets is their AoE, they are extremely unreliable vs multiple mobs, not to mention their damage is sub-par anyway, so why don’t we make:

-rifle turret’s hits pierce

-rocket turret’s rocket have a bigger AoE and faster projectile flight

-boost thumper turret’s AoE (as of now I don’t think the 240rad actually matches, just as grenades’ rad, and mines)

One more buff to turrets, which would be very smart in my opinion, would be making turrets considered like walls, I mean, you can’t just walk past their polygonal models, you actually have to walk another way instead of just straight into it, maybe a new trait that “transforms” turrets into small 80/100rad reinforced walls that also buffs their armor could work wonders.

Now to the last problem: their toolbelts

I think the only reliable toolbelt atm is rifle turret’s, it doesn’t pierce but at least it’s the most reliable static-discharge skill so… all of the others have unexplained and totally unjust cooldowns, just look at thumper turret, it even laggs! A good thing would be to adjust their functions with the previous examples/suggestions I listed above exept for “Throw Napalm” (flame turret’s), which needs simply shorter CD and instead of just causing burn, it creates a small fire field just like Fire Bomb, actually a ranged fire bomb version would work best, to balance it I’d make its CD the same as “grenade barrage” (30s).

Another general buff to Toolbelt skills would be to remove cast-times from some low damage/utility skills, like “surprise shot” we should get to consider’em like punches coming out of our belt (dunno if there’s a specific way to name this, not english native so…), automatically! while busy with something else.

I love the Turret Kit idea. I became an Engineer because of Turrets. However, when using them in W3, I had the issue of the turrets being melted in a matter of seconds. So, I mainly use the Rifle Turret for the Surprise shot traited with Static Shot(like all my toolbelt skills). I saw the Turrets as the bread and butter of the Engineers. When I saw how lack luster they were, I was disheartened.

However, I still have hope. Let’s keep our fingers crossed that the devs take a look at these ideas you fellas have posted in this thread

Now about elixirs

They are bad in general in my opinion, u simply throw’em for buffs or use just a couple for stun-break, but their benefits in general are, as stated above, sub-par and need traits in order to be considered, though elixir R’s toolbelt is still kinda fine.

First, they need lower cooldowns in general.

Second, elixir traits affect toolbelt skills and elixir gun skills.

What could help elixirs in general would be, providing more buffs, but I’ll list some ideas more specifically so:

-Elixir C effects last 10s, strips you from every condition and grants immunity to every condition, more reliable than just turning those into buffs, may consider lower duration on lower cooldowns.
-Toolbelt: same as above on impact, becomes AoE, creates a 4s light field, longer CD

-Elixir R also grants a 3-4s stealth
-toolbelt’s fine

-Elixir B lowered CD to 25-30s, removed retaliation, gain 5-6 stacks of might instead of 1… which is useless… but in exchange that might only lasts for 10-15s also a WAY longer swiftness duration helps, at least double, a 60-70% duration buff should work
-toolbelt: all current buffs removed, it instead has 360 rad,applies aegis and a 4s 180rad smoke field

-Elixir U has actually a full 5s duration (not just 3….)
-toolbelt: creates a light field that reflects projectiles and foes can’t cross, blowout effect on cast (works like target-AoE-insta BoB), lasts 5s and is affected by elixir traits, CD’s doubled due to such effects, however it is affected by elixir traits AND tools traitline.

-Elixir S… it’s fine, maybe 1 more second would be better
-toolbelt: changed effects to- grant stability for 5s on impact, create a smoke combo field that lasts 3s and grant stealth for 2s each second (yep, BOTH effects, it has a 1minute CD after all!)

To compliment the whole build, finally, “acidic Elixirs”:

Damage unchanged, cause poison OR burn OR confusion on impact, elixir-related fields last 2s longer

To buff the elixir gun, ‘coz it’s useless in general now, ALL of its skills are affected by elixir related traits (this means that with acidic elixirs all its skills cause poison/confusion/burn on impact).

To compliment those Elixir gun’s skills and elixirs’ builds that would insta-pop up after such buffs, a new trait:

“Elixir Pump”: all your elixir gun skills (exept n1 “tranquilizer dart”) “throw” elixir blobs in 3 directions (so 3 blobs, forward,left and right) that hit for very small damage (like acidic elixirs), bounce and grant 2s regeneration on allies, those elixir blobs are affected by elixir-related traits.

Elixir Gun’s “healing mist” toolbelt also casts a 3s water field, again, affected by elixir traits.

I don’t really like the turret kit idea, honestly. It seems to not really fit-in to the framework of our UI and class.

Here’s my suggestion: Make a trait that turns turrets into ball-turrets. They roll on the ground and fire at opponents, while staying within a specific range of the engineer, depending on the type of turret. When you press explode, they charge towards the target and explode in a blast finisher.

Not too different from what we have now, but a lot cooler and with a lot more strategy. Mesmers can use their turrets as cannon-fodder, why can’t we? Our class would still be very unique, but similar enough to be able to be just as useful.

Ofcourse, the soonest we could possibly hope to see this would be well into next summer. Also, I really haven’t seen ANet take any suggestions from players like that before.

@Welswift:
I have actually considered that idea. But it would strip the very foundation of what turrets are defined as in this game: Immobile Devices.

As much as I agree with your idea 100%, the amount of re-coding needed to be done to accomplish that well exceed my own suggestion. Your proposal demands a lot on the Developers, which are lazy as we all know but do not say (No Offense). Unless there are profit for them to actually do such thing, I don’t see that realizing in the near future.

In my opinion, your plan changes the framework of Engineer even more. But a very creative idea regardless! Keep the suggestions coming, guys.

i’d like everyone to take a look at this picture and tell me what armor type you think he’s wearing
https://d2vn94glaxzkz3.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/wallpapers/GW2_EngineerWallpaper02-800x600.jpg
i truly believe engineers were meant to wear heavy armor, or to be able to mix and match at the least. those gauntlets are for sure either extremely reinforced leather or they’re plate.

@Lightsbane.9012

It mostly resembles the temple-karma armor either the dredge one, kit active and character creation goggles, which look extremely good on charrs imo

Actually there’s quite some armors and combos that can make your character look very “tankish”, you don’t need the heavy armor, also I don’t think this is the right topic to bring that discussion up, there’s other, more suited topics, check around, usually general discussion/suggestion though.

Rfreak.6591:

@Lightsbane.9012

It mostly resembles the temple-karma armor either the dredge one, kit active and character creation goggles, which look extremely good on charrs imo

Actually there’s quite some armors and combos that can make your character look very “tankish”, you don’t need the heavy armor, also I don’t think this is the right topic to bring that discussion up, there’s other, more suited topics, check around, usually general discussion/suggestion though.

where do you get the temple karma armor?

there’s precise locations on the wiki, they are in the Orr zones, http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_armor_sets#Exotic_Karma_armor_sets

scroll down to “exotic armor sets”, and beware of the karma price, complete daily and monthly achievement if you want a complete set, check the wiki suggestions on how to use effectively the “Jug of liquid karma”

Lightsbane.9012:

i’d like everyone to take a look at this picture and tell me what armor type you think he’s wearing
https://d2vn94glaxzkz3.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/wallpapers/GW2_EngineerWallpaper02-800x600.jpg
i truly believe engineers were meant to wear heavy armor, or to be able to mix and match at the least. those gauntlets are for sure either extremely reinforced leather or they’re plate.

Ha that is actually my desktop background! After looking at that (and before the game released) I was so inspired by its kitten look that I just had to roll a Charr engineer. Sadly in game, engineers look nothing like that :/

Those metal gauntlets, that toolbelt with grenades, the headgear, that pure metal awesomeness look! * sighs * maybe someday we might have that armor…

Oh and yeah I agree with many points op said, though not so much on survival. I feel on my engie that’s a decent thing we can do. Mostly cause I play with elixir s, the trait version for it and the tool kit. I am at least able to go in an enemy zerg, finish off a downed opponent while invlunerable with elixir s and get out quickly with gear shield a few rolls, and sometimes a toss of elixir s if I get lucky on the right one.

I like that you can argue your points clearly though, if we want change that is what we have to do.

Elixir ground targeting isnt such a big issue if you use Fast Cast Ground Targeting. My ‘support grenadier’ playstyle uses elixirs to buff teammates that are clashing with the enemy while I am safely nading them from the back. That said, I think that elixirs could do with having less randomness applied to them.

On the subject of turrets. Turrets are fine for PvE up until Lvl 40 or so. There are 2 major flaws that I see with how turrets are implemented.
(1) Turret durability does not scale with level. Even armor plated turrets go down quickly against high level opponents. Even ‘Denton the Durable’ (a squishy NPC) seems more durable than Lv. 80 armor plated turrets.
(2) Turret AI is not intelligent at all. It seems to like attacking the spawn points for immobile objects, using up its own internal CDs on something that it cannot hit. This is more of a PvE issue than a PvP issue.

@Zero Angel.9715

I was talking about an ideal situation where the bugs problems were finally solved, simply wanted to contribute to the topic with a couple of balancing ideas.

GluttonyFang.2439:

Solution: Like previously mentioned, Elixir Kit. Fit every Elixir out there excluding Elixir H into this kit. The same concept applied for my turret proposal would implement in this kit, as well. But the toss elixir capability should be replaced by an AoE buff like the Healing Turret’s Tool Belt skill. Engineer has quite a lot to handle already, adding in Ground Targeting is a nuisance. Then, the randomness. No one would want a stealth wall when a giant AoE comes in an Engineer’s way. Then nobody appreciates a reflective wall when one desires a stealth wall. The CDs of the Elixir can remain due to the fact that I expanded their accessibility.

EX. In a group combat situation, an Engineer plans to deploy a Stealth Wall for his allies to retreat. In such perilous situation, the Engineer uses Toss Elixir U, then resulted in a reflector wall. The awkward second of silence has plunged the entire team into depression.

EX. In a one on one situation, an Engineer attempts to disengage through utilizing Toss Elixir S to “hope” for a stealth buff. However, he becomes a giant, therefore an easy target practice dummy. Whoever misses such an enormous creature in combat needs a new eye prescription.

III. Survival

For far too long, Engineer has fallen under the impression of a slow-legged turtle who travels less than a centimeter per day. Just about every other profession has the capability of escaping if one puts his/her mind upon the matter. Fleeing however, is not an option for most Engineers.

Problem: From the two problems I have suggested above, one can infer that Engineer has already used up his Utility Slots, or only has one precious slot left. Is it really balanced for a class to under-perform even when one uses all Utility Slots for offensive maneuvers, and yet one cannot escape from any desperate situations?

Solution: Create a Survival Kit. No I’m kidding. Create an Elite Skill that has 240 seconds of Cool Down named “Asura Gate.” This skill is very similar to Mesmer’s Portal, however, a much longer range. Asura Gate is a skill which allows an Engineer to construct a “Recall-Point” at a specific location. When the Engineer wishes to escape from a dangerous situation, he can create a portal (built by machine instead of Mesmer’s “magic”) which sustains for 15 seconds. All allies including the skill user can utilize this spacial portal to escape to safety. This skill will truly bring Engineer into the light and makes it become one of the indispensable class in both PVE and PVP contents.

Conclusion: With the ideas presented above, Engineer would truly become the model of versatility. It also provides one the ability to specialize in an area (Allocate Traits) if wanted. If the solutions above apply, Engineer would finally be able to possess the same learning curve and capability comparing to other classes.

Note: This is my personal opinion and proposal. Opinions may differ, please do not attack me personally. Give constructive criticism, not incoherent, irrational, or uneducated remarks that lack train of thought that fail to contribute to the given topic

An elixer kit and turret kit would make us so OP in PvP it wouldn’t even be realistic. Static discharge alone would make turret kit ungodly for bouncing burst damage, and then we could still switch to an elixer kit that holds a self rez… ungodly, and unbeatable in PvP.

As far as escapes go, far as I know, Thieves and Mesmers are the only experts at that, maybe an Ele. How does a Guardian, Necro, Warrior escape, exactly? And for just plain mobility, we can spec for permanent switfness uptime without even using a utility slot in PvP, by use of Medikit and Centaur Runes.

Conclusion: With the models above, average or new players would do better with Engineer, and experienced players would run every other profession out of the game due to an OP level that would make the current view on Thieves and Mesmers seem trivial.

Elixirs are strong when traited for, they are fine. Your changes would make them stupidly overpowered. I think the secret to making turrets more appealing would be to improve the tool belt skills they grant when not deployed. Some are pretty cool but have really long cool downs that don’t match the general power of the skill.

Numot.3965:

Elixirs are strong when traited for, they are fine. Your changes would make them stupidly overpowered. I think the secret to making turrets more appealing would be to improve the tool belt skills they grant when not deployed. Some are pretty cool but have really long cool downs that don’t match the general power of the skill.

Agreed. The CDs is the main thing that hurts turrets, which is why net turret and rifle turret are the only ones usually used in sPvP. Rifle is great mixed with Static Discharge, and Net turrets are often carried in heavy CC builds. By and by the largest problem with turrets is that people often feel they need to carry 3-4 turrets, and that is truthfully really only viable on Battle of Kylo as a mid bunker with Accelerated Turrets.

Turrets, in general however, are much more viable than a majority of this board seems to be willing to believe.

aydenunited.5729:

.
Turrets, in general however, are much more viable than a majority of this board seems to be willing to believe.

A lot of forum posters show an “all or nothing” mentality. Like you need to have all turrets, all gadgets, or all kits, ect. You can mix and match and still be effective. There is also the fact people seem to think you should be dropping them every engagement rather than when they would be useful (when you need to hold a position).

I think the cool downs are long because turrets get 2 tool belt skills that are independent of each other, the “stowed” version and “deployed”. It still doesn’t justify having a 90 second cool down on something like [Shockwave] for the thumper turret. Honestly most of them could be reduced to at least 20-30s and not cause any problems while buffing static discharge builds by giving them more options to play with.

@Numot:

I think you’re addressing the Engineer specializing tendency. I personally believe focusing on a certain portion which a class has to offer isn’t wrong. Now, does that achieve the same as other classes? No.

For example, when you see a Mesmer spamming clones at one, he or she would consider twice before charging in unless this individual is a burst thief. However, Engineer doesn’t achieve half of this effect even if one occupies his entire Utility Slots with turrets. To be honest, any classes can out-kite turrets due to their immobility and lack of functions. Unless the Engineer drops four turrets of his own then use supply drop, I seriously doubt any class would be discouraged to skip an easy kill.

Regardless how well one understands Engineer, Elixir Build/Static Discharge Build/Glass Cannon are pretty much the only two possible method in order to be on par with other classes in PvP, and WvW.

Turrets are only an example, I won’t go into detail with Elixirs/Tool Kits, they fall into the same category of issue I mentioned above.

about 80% of engineer utility skills are useless for pve, engineers pick kits, because there’s nothing else to pick.

Elixir kit for heal and bomb/grenade kit for dmg. Rest is just not worth taking.

Entire profession needs work, people already are quitting this game, because at lvl80 their class turns out to be kitten.

Tbh, they need to reverse the “Smoke Bomb” nerf, it his the survivability of engineer REALLY HARD.

GluttonyFang.2439:

Regardless how well one understands Engineer, Elixir Build/Static Discharge Build/Glass Cannon are pretty much the only two possible method in order to be on par with other classes in PvP, and WvW.

This isn’t true, unless by on par, you mean exclusively TTK.

While I do LOVE your idea of turret and elixir kits, some of what you say seem uninformed.

Engineer has an almost all-blocking shield on a 20 sec CD, can gain protection on disables, can get out of a pinch with rocket boots, can fly backwards with elixir gun, slow a group down with box of spikes, can net a pursuing warrior or thief with a net turret, can drink an elixir S to become unstoppable, can put up smoke screens and glue puddles, gain stealth when immobilized (I have had people just run past me since entangling roots made me insivible all the time), have automated elixir S and smoke screen as an emergency saver, and can knock foes back with big ol bomb. Also overcharged shot. Also jump shot. And powerful shoes now increase combat run speed by 25%. And you can get permanent swiftness buff both in and out of combat.

Engineer actually has TONS of escapes.