Guild Wars 2

First of all, don’t come in here and tell me that signets would ruin the Engineer. Signets are just another type of skill, and you don’t need to use them if you don’t want to. Every class has signets, and Engineers have no reason to be any different.

Now, I’ve thought of some signets that would fit the theme of the engineer. Here’s what I was thinking:

Gear Signet

Gear Signet focuses on affecting the recharge of toolbelt skills, which makes it totally unique to the Engineer.

Passive: Increases Toolbelt Recharge Rate by 20%.
Active: Your toolbelt skills are instantly recharged.

Gear Grenade (Toolbelt)

Throw a ground-targeted gear that spins rapidly, firing dazing darts in the area around it.

Range: 600
Daze Duration: 1 second
Duration: 3 seconds
Rate of Fire: 0.2 seconds
Combo Finisher: Whirl

Signet of Iron

Passive: Reduces the duration of control effects on you by 15% (stacks with Rune of Melandru).
Active: Grants Protection to you and nearby allies for 8 seconds.

Barricade (Toolbelt)

Deploys a destructible iron wall that blocks projectiles.

Signet of Steam

Passive: Condition duration on you is reduced by 20%.
Active: Breaks stun and grants stealth for 5 seconds.

Steam Shroud (Toolbelt)

Generate a large steam bubble around your current location, inflicting burning, blind, and weakness to enemies who touch it. Projectiles cannot pass through.
Duration: 10 seconds.

VIVorcha.7853:

Engineers have no reason to be any different.

I don’t necessarily disagree with creating some nice, accessible builds, something the engineer is a bit low on.

I can’t agree with this statement, however.

These aren’t bad for signets but they strike me as rather pvp oriented since condition and stun duration reduction doesn’t seem that useful at first glance over taking other stuff from an engineer’s arsenal, but the cc reduction could be strong if stacked with runes and traits I suppose.

I like the gear signet but that seems more fitting to be a gadget than a signet. I’ll throw something else in.

Signet of Clockwork
Passive: Reduces weapon cooldowns by 1 second when using a toolbelt skill (2 sec internal cooldown)
Active: Enter temporal rift, after 5 seconds teleport back to the location it was activated.

NevirSayDie.6235:

VIVorcha.7853:

Engineers have no reason to be any different.

I don’t necessarily disagree with creating some nice, accessible builds, something the engineer is a bit low on.

I can’t agree with this statement, however.

If every other class has Signets, you shouldn’t make one class not have them. That doesn’t make sense balance-wise.

VIVorcha.7853:

NevirSayDie.6235:

VIVorcha.7853:

Engineers have no reason to be any different.

I don’t necessarily disagree with creating some nice, accessible builds, something the engineer is a bit low on.

I can’t agree with this statement, however.

If every other class has Signets, you shouldn’t make one class not have them. That doesn’t make sense balance-wise.

I think there’s a difference between “balance” and “homogeneity.” Balance is good, but I see no reason for homogeneity. Again, I agree with you that engineers could use some nice, easy, open-world PvE builds, like signet-based builds are for a lot of professions. Signets have strong passives which means that the player doesn’t have to press as many buttons, because simple combinations are more effective.

The only thing I disagree with is that “other professions have signets, so engineers should have them too.” Why would we want signets when we can have flamethrowers, slick shoes, mines, and prybars? There are already seven professions that have good passive options, and five of them can also wield greatswords (lol greatswords). GW2 has plenty of things that feel the same. Why not celebrate the few things that are truly unique?

NevirSayDie.6235:

VIVorcha.7853:

NevirSayDie.6235:

VIVorcha.7853:

Engineers have no reason to be any different.

I don’t necessarily disagree with creating some nice, accessible builds, something the engineer is a bit low on.

I can’t agree with this statement, however.

If every other class has Signets, you shouldn’t make one class not have them. That doesn’t make sense balance-wise.

I think there’s a difference between “balance” and “homogeneity.” Balance is good, but I see no reason for homogeneity. Again, I agree with you that engineers could use some nice, easy, open-world PvE builds, like signet-based builds are for a lot of professions. Signets have strong passives which means that the player doesn’t have to press as many buttons, because simple combinations are more effective.

The only thing I disagree with is that “other professions have signets, so engineers should have them too.” Why would we want signets when we can have flamethrowers, slick shoes, mines, and prybars? There are already seven professions that have good passive options, and five of them can also wield greatswords (lol greatswords). GW2 has plenty of things that feel the same. Why not celebrate the few things that are truly unique?

The reason: Because a deficiency is not a uniqueness that deserves to be celebrated?

I don’t really understand. Do you support adding signets for Engineers or not? Do you want them to be added under a different name? Because that’s just totally pointless.

we have signets
but they call them “gadgets”

VIVorcha.7853:

I don’t really understand. Do you support adding signets for Engineers or not? Do you want them to be added under a different name? Because that’s just totally pointless.

No, I’d rather see more simple and effective trait options like juggernaut. It’s in no danger of being OP because no one can afford to stay in flamethrower for long in PvP, but it gives a ton of free +stats, feels powerful, is visually satisfying, and does decent enough damage for most people.

These leaked patch notes that claim that bombs are getting a radius increase is another great example. Bombs are the engineer’s version of hundred blades for leveling, but everyone tries them a few times and says “how are you supposed to hit anything with these?” and goes back to farming with a greatsword. Lol greatswords…

I’ve seen too many catastrophes to advocate buffs just because it feels like I need them. The engineer has a sort of appropriate reputation as a PvP-only profession for hardcore PvP-only players, and it would be fun to see it become a bit more accessible for regular old PvE farmers and the like. I have nothing but respect for that crowd: they are playing the game the way it was meant to be played and have a lot of fun doing it. But they’re generally not interested in 20-skill chains that are hard to dodge but don’t do any more damage than the other professions do just cycling through their weapon skills.

But at the same time, I’d hate to see a misguided buff land us in the same boat as warriors are right now—the warrior PvP population lobbied for buffs for 10 months, and got a lot, until suddenly everyone realized that warriors were ridiculously overpowered. Somewhat similar story with necros. Meanwhile, real gameplay issues, bugs, and QoL fixes have gone unnoticed, and all for what? A rotating treadmill of buffs and nerfs; overpowered for a month, underpowered for three; constantly changing builds because nothing stays viable.

If you’ve gotten through the wall of text, I tip my hat to you. Sorry if I’m coming on too strong, I don’t intend to.

no. They will not do this. Why?

Because even if devs will buff other staff in engis, they will never do them siplier to play. Cause that’s what engis about.

But good try m8.

I would love signets but realistically we would not get them for one simple reason: We can overcome the choice dilema of either using passive or active signet effects simply by playing with out tool belt skills. 99% sure its because of our class mechanics that we are the only class who werent given one

Hvaran.6327:

no. They will not do this. Why?

Because even if devs will buff other staff in engis, they will never do them siplier to play. Cause that’s what engis about.

But good try m8.

Engis are not about being difficult to play.

Elixirs seem like signets IMO.

@VIVorcha:
I really like the signet ideas you have proposed, and the effects are actually really interesting and strong which is something that a lot of signets lack; so kudos on achieving what Arenanet could not for things like

• Guardian Signets: Signet of Judgement, Wrath, Bane, Mercy
• Warrior Signets: Healing Signet, Stamina, Fury, Might
• Ranger Signets: Renewal, Stone, Wild
• Thief Signets: Assassin’s Signet, Agility
• Elementalist Signets: Earth, Fire, Water
• Mesmer Signet: Domination
• Necromancer Signet: Spite

All of the above provide boring stat boosts that don’t add to the design flavour of the class, whilst Gear Signet does; although Signets of Iron and Steam are Melandru Runes by any other name. That said, the Toolbelt actives are very handsome and whilst their balance is arguable, they are undeniably useful and fill gaps in the Engineer support inventory.

However I will have to echo Penguin on why we can’t have Signets:

Penguin.5197:

I would love signets but realistically we would not get them for one simple reason: We can overcome the choice dilemma of either using passive or active signet effects simply by playing with our tool belt skills. 99% sure its because of our class mechanics that we are the only class who werent given one

I would love to see traits supporting Gadgets, or minor passives added to Gadgets that would echo some of the niche applications you have laid out though. Things like Toolbelt Recharge are poorly supported by our Gadgets and Gadget traits; whilst Turret Toolbelt skills are often uninspired and simply provide extra damage without extra utility.

Things that exploit our unique class mechanic such as:

• Condition cleanse on Toolbelt use
• Resetting Toolbelt CD
• Targetted Toolbelt skills cause Daze
• Additional toolbelt skill effects such as Power Wrench adding Cripple to Throw Wrench
• Moving some RNG procs to Toolbelt use

are sadly lacking in our arsenal and can do much to increase class depth through the Trait system.

Seem like a certain percentage of you guys have no clue what a signet even is…

Signets in Guild Wars 1 were essentially energy cost-free spells that had a myriad of uses. No passives here. The trend for Signets in general in GW1 was to make them highly situational and usually with a long cast time.

Unfortunately in GW2, there are no energy costs, so this design has been discarded in lieu of granting a passive effect that goes away when the Signet is used. The problem with the GW2 design of Signets is that the majority of them are largely unimaginative and are either useless as a passive and no better than any other utility, or too strong as a passive and should be held in reserve always.

@GeneralBama:
The problem with Signets has been, and will ever be, overtuning of Signets. Make the passive too strong, and people can’t counterplay it (Current Warrior Healing Signet) . Make the active too strong and it just is another spell – look at Signet of Rage for Warrior and how almost no Warrior uses it for Adrenaline generation and instead burns it for Lyssa procs and Might/Fury/Swiftness on long durations.

The key is in finding the right passive that’s strong without being un-counterplayable. Healing Signet is not one of those. Contrast this with something like Signet of Undeath which was almost universally taken for LF generation and as support with Ressing team-mates; or Signet of Spite which drew conditions to the Necro from allies.

Unfortunately, as of the Dhuumfire Patch, Spite is merely being used as an addition to condi-burst. What should have happened instead was Spite being used to send condis to foes, or to deal damage equal to the amount of the Necromancer’s missing health; kind of like Spoil Victor from GW1. But that is off topic for Engineers, so I’ll stop.

The key here is to find a mechanic that is interesting and strong while allowing counterplay due to opponents drawing out the use of the Signet; or as a conscious choice by the Engineer to add to their rotation. To be frank, the whole design framework between Signets is highly flawed, but that is neither here nor there.

Adding passives to Gadgets would be the closest thing Engineers have to a Signet. Once again though, the Gadgets that we do have don’t really allow the creative latitude to make nice passives without being related to – CC (Slick Shoes/PBR/Throw Mine) or Speed boosts (Rocket Boots) or as a soft counter to Blind (Utility Goggles).

Personally I think that strong passives should only be the domain of Traits; especially in the case of Engineer where the design of Gadgets is already set in stone. A triple Gadget build can gain its utility through Trait support just as Elixirs do and be strong that way; rather than being reworked into yet another ersatz Signet that will once again lead to overtuning and madness.

Any Signets that would be added would therefore have to be added as a new skill category entirely – something that may have to be left to Expansion material. I will say this: With Engineer and its toolbelt ability, Signets will be very hard to make work without running into balance problems.

That said, if Arenanet is creative enough – of that I have little doubt – Signets can probably be made to work for the Engineer. The most important thing I must stress is that the Signets should have a long cast time and be situational, just like GW1 in terms of actives, and provide a nice passive that isn’t available through traits to differentiate its design.

If Arenanet can make something really interesting like Signet of Undeath, other Signets deserve the same treatment. Unfortunately we are now way past beta phase so real Signets – interesting, situational actives married to untraitable passives – may never see the light of day.

You know what I like about not having signets? Nobody knows what to expect when coming across an engineer.

Yeah whenever i fight one i usually say after engaging em “Oh they running X ok” No predictions to be had.

The closest thing we have to signets are gadgets. Just make gadgets have a weak passive that applies to allies and not to ourselves and we’re set.

Signet make no sense on engy because every non-weapon skill on engineer has his toolbelt pair, so it’s like having a “double active signet”, if you’re lazy enough and don’t want active skill but just let your character autoattack while signet boost your stat, as you pointed just reroll one of the other 8 professions available.

I think a big question here is: What skills would you REMOVE in order to accommodate these signets? You can’t give one class 3 more utilities skills than every other class.

Yeah. I’m gonna pass on signets.

They’re counterintuitive to the design of the class. We use skills that make signets look foolish. No reason to use such a skill.

That being said, Kit Refinement should be revisited to provide passives similar to signets while the kit is not in use in addition to the on equip effects. Each kit should be independent in the trait activation (no more sharing one CD) though the CD time would remain the same. So you get a passive like 25% faster movement speed with Tool Kit, but equip it and you trigger super speed which puts the 25% buff on CD, but not the passive buff from say Med Kit, which would be nice as a buff to healing power, and you can still equip Med Kit for its kit refinement effect.

Silly signets don’t belong if tweaks are made to Kit Refinement, I.E. balanced passive class effectiveness.

I’m not sure about signets for the Engineer, but gadgets could maybe become signet-like if they were to be given passive effects when not on a cool-down. Instead of traditional passive effects such as “you move 25% faster,” gadget passives could feature active triggers or movement modifiers such as “move a greater distance when you dodge,” “gain a reflective shield for 1 second when you dodge” or “trigger an explosion at your location when you use a tool-belt skill (10 second cool-down; counts as a blast finisher).”

That said, I don’t think that your skill suggestions are bad at all. The tool-belt skills are especially interesting (very utilitarian). Although, the steam bubble one might be a little overpowered with a 10 second duration and all of those powerful conditions (still cool, though).

I think sigs would be cool on Engi and I do like the OPs (and other) suggestions. To the op, I really like the idea of lowering the cool down of toolbelt skils but 20% feels too strong. Honestly 5% feels more in line with what other signets are like atm. Also a simple run speed sig would be cool.