Guild Wars 2

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Engineer-Trait-Bloat/first#post2193223

I started a topic in the suggestion forum about Engineer Trait bloat and would like to know what the Engineer community thinks. Yes, my post does mention turrets and the explosives trait line—but bloat affects all of our trait lines—especially Explosives and Firearms. Please hop over and share your thoughts.

There is no doubt we have trait issues. You mentioned turrets, so I will use the turret traits as an example.

There’s a t2 turret trait in Explosives
There’s a t2 turret trait in Tools
There’s a t1, t2, and t3 turret trait in Inventions.

Impossible to even spec for all of them if you wanted an all out turret build.

Some of these traits are weak as hell too, especially for how crappy and weak turrets are. Literally one Mesmer GS phantasm and its gone.

A t2 trait just to make them ground targeted? Lolz

A t2 trait that gives them regen, regen that only ticks for like 700, while they have the armor of a naked mage. Maybe if 30% dmg reduction and regen were together in one trait it might not be laughable.

However, the balance patch at the end of the month is supposed to specifically deal with a lot of these spread out useless traits, combining, tweaking, etc…so I’m going to wait and see what the end of June brings before I start asking for further changes/fixes.

…It’s possible to spec for all of the turret traits.

In Explosives, Accelerated Turrets is 20 points.
In Inventions, Metal Plating is 10, Autotool Installation is 20, and Rifled Turret Barrels is 30.
In Tools, Deployable Turrets is 10.

10 points left over, too.

Just pointing that out. In other news, I’m curious as to how this next patch is going to work out.

I feel they have certain traits in the wrong places like the 50% endurance regen definitely should not be a grand master trait it should be one of those tiny 5 point traits easily.

I also have a comparison post about how they could improve the burst DPS options since they still classify this profession as an adventurer profession. We’re missing might and fury builders (multiple options for each, right now we only have 1 builder for FT and 1 builder for elixirs there is no flow options or elegance for using things we already should be using like gadgets for example) as well as burst DPS options for when enemies are at max health to about 90% and then the bonuses for 50% or below are missing entirely (cept crit in only 1 line). So basically we’re supposed to use one of the most expensive and hard to find runesets in the game to include that bonus to damage at 50% hitpoints on our foe and the runeset only offers 10% whereas the thief and ranger enjoy traits that offer 20% extra damage for those instances.

We’re severely defensive stuck in a hybrid state (relying too much on condition damage types) for everything, we need a Zerker option to be balanced.

(Talking PVE)

There’s also the question of them adding a 25% run speed boost to one of the sets of gadgets so that we can eliminate about 10 points that everyone gets stuck with at the bottom of the line just to travel properly.

Engineers have some bloat most definitely.

Firearms

• Hair trigger and rifled barrels could stand to be merged
• Sitting duck and knee shot should be merged
• Napalm specialist should probably be merged with fireforged trigger or Juggernaut

Explosives

• Acidic elixirs is a bad trait by design and should be removed. Thrown elixirs are thrown to buff and support, not for damage.
• Accelerant-packed turrets is only in this line on a thematic basis, move and merge with metal plating in inventions.
• Autodefence bomb dispencer needs to be changed to something more useful and fitting of a grandmaster (Important note, Grenadier is what a grandmaster shouldn’t be on the opposite end of the spectrum. A trait should make a kit better, not viable)
• Shrapnel could stand to be merged with Explosive powder, it probably won’t be at this point for balance reasons

Inventions

• Energized and Stabilized armor should be merged. On their own, neither trait is terribly desirable.
• Auto tool installation; this is a bad trait simply due to how the game functions and how turrets function in the game. Simply put, they are not saveable unless you pick them up. That’s fine, this trait is garbage though cause it has no use due to that point alone.
• Elixir infused bombs seems out of place here, Rifled Turret barrels should probably have Auto-tool installation merged with it.
• Powershoes needs to be an adapt tier trait again. Its an interesting ability that lets non swiftness build work but is prohibitively deep in the tree, limiting choices.

Alchemy

• Only real odd-ball here is Deadly Mixture. Elixir gun doesn’t need damage, its a support/condition kit. While flamethrower does. Get rid of this and give one the flamethrower traits 15% damage for the kit. Elixir gun needs to get its own trait (conditions last longer would probably make the most sense).

Tools

• Leg mods…why is this even here. Its inferior to speedy kits on a massive scale. Either change the trait to reduce movement impairment conditions, or get rid of it.

• Packaged stimulants is neat in theory, poor in practice, and outdone by the elixir gun entirely. Remove this trait. Better yet change it so it give gadgets some non-conditional condition removal or gives gadgets additional healing on use.

• Armor mods; this feels like it should have been in Inventions. Regardless it is bad because if an engineer wants to make use of retaliation they have Elixir B. Scrap it and give engineers a gadget grandmaster.

• Adrenal implant is outdone by invigorating speed and engineers interesting array of control options. It just isn’t worth a grandmaster slot in it’s current form. The placement is probably a balancing choice but this is a bad trait. Change it something more useful.

Overall: traits could use some trimming but the prime offenders are Inventions and Tools. Inventions is a rather underwhelming trait line overall. Tools is a good trait line with some really bad traits resting in it, namely the two grandmasters. Currently I’m fine with how traits are (as in it doesn’t bother me that much) and looking forward to improvements.

I know some people think that themed traits should be locked into themed trait lines.

All turret traits in inventions, all elixir traits in alchemy. But by having those traits in other lines it incourages use of traits and utilities outside of the primary trait lines.

Accerlant packed turrets is a brillant trait in it’s own right and it functions in a different way to the main stream turret traits. It lets you use turrets on demand knock backs and skill interupts, which is pretty awesome.

But agree there are a lot of traits that need trimming firearms, inventions, and tools all need a good review.

Although I think the issue with inventions is not the traits as much as turrets themselves. If turrets are weak and extremely limited, there is not much traits on their own can do to help.

With tools, the real questions, where are the gadget support traits? There is only 1. The kit traits are nice to be sure. Kit refinement, speedy kits, power wrenches, and the tool belt traits and minor traits are nice. But the others are just meh.

I would love to see some proper gadget traits. Every other kind of utility skill or weapon, inculding the elites, get more trait coverage, they are extremely under supported.

Karast.1927:

I know some people think that themed traits should be locked into themed trait lines.

All turret traits in inventions, all elixir traits in alchemy. But by having those traits in other lines it incourages use of traits and utilities outside of the primary trait lines.

Actually it doesn’t. It only encourages min-maxing one type of skill by branching into other trait lines. If all turret traits would be in one line, you’d have to pick your top three, and get another top three in another line for another set of skills entirely. As such, you’re much more inclined to have diverse builds.

Second offense of the current system, is masking broken skills behind several must-have traits that make them either balanced or OP. Skills should be functional without traits to begin with. If a kit is broken without 3 traits, the kit has to be buffed.

Actually it doesn’t. It only encourages min-maxing one type of skill by branching into other trait lines. If all turret traits would be in one line, you’d have to pick your top three, and get another top three in another line for another set of skills entirely. As such, you’re much more inclined to have diverse builds.

Second offense of the current system, is masking broken skills behind several must-have traits that make them either balanced or OP. Skills should be functional without traits to begin with. If a kit is broken without 3 traits, the kit has to be buffed.[/quote]

yeah but your not using acclerant pack turrets if your using a turret build. The turret KB is best used when detonating turrets, if your running a turret build, you want your turrets up as much as possible, not on cool down. That is a completely different way of using turrets.

Thats my main point. If that trait was inventions I more than likely wouldn’t use it. Inventions focuses on keeping turrets alive and increasing their damage.

Also you can only have 3 major traits. So unless if they combined everything something has to give.

Karast.1927:

yeah but your not using acclerant pack turrets if your using a turret build. The turret KB is best used when detonating turrets, if your running a turret build, you want your turrets up as much as possible, not on cool down. That is a completely different way of using turrets.

Thats my main point. If that trait was inventions I more than likely wouldn’t use it. Inventions focuses on keeping turrets alive and increasing their damage.

Also you can only have 3 major traits. So unless if they combined everything something has to give.

I strongly disagree. I used Accelerant-packed Turrets in all of my turret builds because in PvP and to a limited extent in PvE it acts as a gap creator, stomp interrupt, and a burst interrupt. I tend to stay close to a turret so that if my opponent stuns me and is setting up their burst I can detonate that turret and interrupt them. Yes, it sucks to lose the damage output and put my turret on cooldown, but I just saved myself from dying. In PvE the same tactic can be used when an enemy has just CC’d me and my health is low.

Nobody I have ever talked to uses Accelerant-packed Turrets in the manner you’re describing, or the manner I think you’re describing—drop turret immediately detonate to get knockback. The majority of us turret players place them with the intent to do damage or cc our enemies and detonate them strategically.

The only time I have ever put a turret down for the sole purpose of immediately detonating it is to push opponents away from a downed ally, and even then it’s the healing turret which I also overcharge to cleanse conditions and create a water field.

marnick.4305:

Karast.1927:

I know some people think that themed traits should be locked into themed trait lines.

All turret traits in inventions, all elixir traits in alchemy. But by having those traits in other lines it incourages use of traits and utilities outside of the primary trait lines.

Actually it doesn’t. It only encourages min-maxing one type of skill by branching into other trait lines. If all turret traits would be in one line, you’d have to pick your top three, and get another top three in another line for another set of skills entirely. As such, you’re much more inclined to have diverse builds.

Second offense of the current system, is masking broken skills behind several must-have traits that make them either balanced or OP. Skills should be functional without traits to begin with. If a kit is broken without 3 traits, the kit has to be buffed.

I couldn’t agree more.

if you goal is not to keep the turrets up for long. Such as with healing or rifle turrets then then you drop them long enough for the overcharge and then detonate for the blasts.

This is how I and a few other engi’s I know utilize healing and rifle turrets as on demand knock backs to disrupt finishers, melee trains, and zerg blobs (supply crate)

We are more interested in turrets for blast finishers / quick tool belt skills, than we are for keeping turrets alive. It is more useful to use the blast asap, than have it uncontrollably attack random targets.

But this is not a TPvP build or a PvE build, this is a 15-20 man guild play WvW build. Your using knock backs and blasts for group support, that’s the beauty of acclerant packed turrets.

It turns supply crate into monsterous CC, and adds extra utility to water / fire field blasting.

But how would you suggest to combine all the turret traits into one line? acclerant packed turrets and deployable turrets are extremely strong traits. Would you combine them with the others? You’ve got 3 major trait slots but 5 major traits. I can see metal plating and auto tool installantion being combined, but that only gains you 1 slot.

Numot.3965:

Alchemy

• Only real odd-ball here is Deadly Mixture. Elixir gun doesn’t need damage, its a support/condition kit. While flamethrower does. Get rid of this and give one the flamethrower traits 15% damage for the kit. Elixir gun needs to get its own trait (conditions last longer would probably make the most sense).

EG is actually a very good damage source due to acid bomb, so I quite like the 15% damage increase I have on it. That said, a second trait for condis in the same place would be a nice way to add choice between condi and power builds.

tigirius.9014:

I feel they have certain traits in the wrong places like the 50% endurance regen definitely should not be a grand master trait it should be one of those tiny 5 point traits easily.

Really? I consider a flat +50% endurance regen passive one of the stronger traits in the game. Definitely one of the most GM-suited ones.

funny because the devs dont agree with you at least for other classes.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Natural_Vigor

I perfer to look at it optimistically. This gives us opportunity to improve the adept traits and move them to GM slot while bringing the +50% endurance trait down. A better kit refinement?

Carighan.6758:

tigirius.9014:

I feel they have certain traits in the wrong places like the 50% endurance regen definitely should not be a grand master trait it should be one of those tiny 5 point traits easily.

Really? I consider a flat +50% endurance regen passive one of the stronger traits in the game. Definitely one of the most GM-suited ones.

The trait does not stack and is overwritten by vigor. Engineers also have easy access to perma-vigor. So the trait is garbo especially as a GM trait.