Guild Wars 2

Simply put, the damage and utility of skills like grenade and flamethrower don’t keep up with actual weapons like the rifle and pistols. I wanted to build around flamethrower, but it simply can’t do half the damage I can do with a rifle. Please buff the weapon kits!

Part of the problem is that you lose your weapon’s stats while you have a kit out. No stats or sigils really starts to sting later on.

Elementalists also summon weapons that go over their actual weapons. They won’t lose stats when this happens, why can’t they pull something like this off with our weapon kits?

Yea, I only use pistols and turrets because of this, I too wanted to build around my flamethrower or explosives.

I picked up the trait which gives +90 toughness when a shield is equipped, but I discovered that I lose this bonus when I swap to a kit. Actually, I was trying to work out a build with the Wrench Kit, and, needing a healthy amount of survivability, I thought that might be a good source. Not so

It would be nice if the kits inherited weapon damage as well as sigil and weapon stats. Tweak the kits if you have to if they come out too powerful, but having a rifle that is near 1,200 in weapon damage (from the character sheet) to go down to 969 for the flamethower sucks.

Same for turrets, they don’t use any of our stats at least the kits get the +power and +cond dmg, the turrets get NOTHING

Engineer kits really should use the weapon bonuses, yeah. At the very least, the sigils and stat bonuses. There’s all sorts of things I want to do with Flamethrower and Sigil of Earth that I can’t.

darkoracle.6483:

Same for turrets, they don’t use any of our stats at least the kits get the +power and +cond dmg, the turrets get NOTHING

do necro minions get effected from the necros stats.

I agree with everything thats been said.

coglin.1496:

darkoracle.6483:

Same for turrets, they don’t use any of our stats at least the kits get the +power and +cond dmg, the turrets get NOTHING

do necro minions get effected from the necros stats.

Nope, neither do guardian spirit weapons or Elementalist Ele’s.

darkoracle.6483:

coglin.1496:

darkoracle.6483:

Same for turrets, they don’t use any of our stats at least the kits get the +power and +cond dmg, the turrets get NOTHING

do necro minions get effected from the necros stats.

Nope, neither do guardian spirit weapons or Elementalist Ele’s.

Curious, seems like an oversight… unless… what about a Ranger’s pets?

Are you kidding me? Grenade damage is insane and mine damage is good. Elixir gun doesn’t really strike me as a damage-focused weapon, and while I don’t think the toolkit is a great primary weapon option at least it hits pretty hard. I think this is less of a weapon kit issue and more of a flamethrower issue.

darkoracle.6483:

coglin.1496:

darkoracle.6483:

Same for turrets, they don’t use any of our stats at least the kits get the +power and +cond dmg, the turrets get NOTHING

do necro minions get effected from the necros stats.

Nope, neither do guardian spirit weapons or Elementalist Ele’s.

That is the point I was trying to make.

My grenades do at least 3x the damage my rifle/pistol can, so I’m not really seeing a need for the damage to increase. I would like to see sigils/stats from the weapon work with the kits though.

Rhidian.6470:

I would like to see sigils/stats from the weapon work with the kits though.

This. I’d never use my rifle if sigils worked on my kits.

Kits don’t need to scale with weapon damage or stats, since they are balanced on a per level basis and with the stats of your gear. Most of you guys are used to games with a vertical gearing system, meaning kits like this would have to scale with weapons or get left behind very quickly. Anet has the luxury of balancing on a horizontal gearing system where everyone will be on an equal playing field. Sure, that means grenades will do the same damage regardless if you have a masterwork rifle or an exotic one. That kind of sucks, but really it isn’t that hard to obtain an exotic, and I’m sure it’s much easier to balance that way.
That said, it would be nice to have sigils affect kits just to add extra flavor.

Scrambled.6850:

Kits don’t need to scale with weapon damage or stats, since they are balanced on a per level basis and with the stats of your gear. Most of you guys are used to games with a vertical gearing system, meaning kits like this would have to scale with weapons or get left behind very quickly. Anet has the luxury of balancing on a horizontal gearing system where everyone will be on an equal playing field. Sure, that means grenades will do the same damage regardless if you have a masterwork rifle or an exotic one. That kind of sucks, but really it isn’t that hard to obtain an exotic, and I’m sure it’s much easier to balance that way.
That said, it would be nice to have sigils affect kits just to add extra flavor.

While it is not AS needed in vertical systems, that is only if you are damage focused. If i spec my gear for longevity so i can survive and support with my elixir gun or what evs, i lose my survivability by using a kit. Because the only scaled stats are damage based. It would be OP to give all kits a boost to all stats to cover all possible weapons they could have, so it needs to either take our weapon stats into account, or leave us as damage gremlins.

Im a huge flamethrower lover…But its very hard to do certain things effectively while losing out on damage because of losing stats from an actual weapon.

When you have Any skill kit equipped, you lose a slot that could be some other utility, and replace your weapon skills. You would think that this would warrant kits being MORE powerful. What justifies losing a utility slot and have a weaker weapon?

I would love to see the flamethrower and possibly other kits get some work done.

What if the system used a sort of placeholder recipe set? In other words, allow engineers to “create” their kits by mixing weapons?

For instance, you get three slots in your inventory, that correspond to Kit 1, Kit 2, and Kit 3. Place certain items in these slots, and they generate different weapon types. Pistol + Torch = Flamethrower, using the pistol and torch’s stats to dictate its abilities. Exchange that torch for a Focus, and you get an Elixir Gun that continues using weapon stats. To activate any of these kits, equip the relevant utility and it supplies you with the kit as normal. This would provide several advantages.

1) As long as all kits have recipes, all kits could use standard item stats.

2) If Anet extended the kit concept to the main inventory slot, Engies could equip weapons directly to their weapon choice instead of using a utility skill.

3) It opens up the possibility of customizing kit appearance. For instance, a flamethrower might have different models for the nozzle based on the pistol, and different packs based on the torch.

Shriketalon.1937:

.. Ideas ..

Sounds fun but i doubt that something like this is gonna happen any time soon.
Mostly because it would require a considerable amount of work.

In any case, i completely agree that something needs to be done about this problem.

I just wish the sigils that proc when that weapon comes out would work with our kits

I was saying something similar nearly a week ago, that Engineers DPS is pretty bad compared to other classes, this entire thread is one of the reasons. The end-game scaling with Engs is really bad and needs some huge buffs, one of the reasons why I’ve put my 80 eng on hold and playing a Rng at the moment.

DPS ain’t bad, at least with bombs and power/condi/vit gear. or burst rifle spec

As a PvE and WvW Engineer i can say with certainty, that there is nothing that beats a grenade kit engineer in raw long range (AoE)damage. Sustained or burst. I really hope this stays like this because everything else the engineer (or any other class) has does not even come close to the ranged damage of the grenade kit when used with the right traits and the right exotic armor supporting it. You are rather squishy though.

Haette.2701:

Part of the problem is that you lose your weapon’s stats while you have a kit out. No stats or sigils really starts to sting later on.

Yup, it is silly and should, like many Engineer flaws, be fixed.

Brtwrst.9312:

As a PvE and WvW Engineer i can say with certainty, that there is nothing that beats a grenade kit engineer in raw long range (AoE)damage. Sustained or burst. I really hope this stays like this because everything else the engineer (or any other class) has does not even come close to the ranged damage of the grenade kit when used with the right traits and the right exotic armor supporting it. You are rather squishy though.

You can make a grenade engineer still hurt alot and get survivability. Sure I had to trade away the condition damage, but the burst still kills more then enough.

Rhidian.6470:

My grenades do at least 3x the damage my rifle/pistol can, so I’m not really seeing a need for the damage to increase. I would like to see sigils/stats from the weapon work with the kits though.

Yeah, grenades a fine, however the flamethrower kit isn’t. Lackluster damage, lackluster skills that the rifle provides in a better version and a variety of bugs make the flamethrower kit one of the most disappointing kits in our arsenal. Most puzzling about the flamethrow kit is the severe lack of proper, longer lasting burning conditions.

The wrench-kit is meh, too. The engineer is just too squishy for melee and the kit doesn’t provide enough knockbacks/knockdowns or stuns. Its utility is best for turrets, but since turrets are terribad, this kit has no use since it has 0 synnergy with traits/perks.

Elixir gun is fun but it should get the boni from your equipped weapons.

The bomb kit, well, I’d prefer bombs to work like traps (people explode when they step in the bomb area range) instead of exploding 1-2 seconds after I deployed them. I don’t see why I should pick them over grenades. I can run away and ’nade enemies, no need for bombs.

If I missed a kit, it’s probably because it’s insignificant.

Edit: Medikit. While technically not a weapon kit, it could have been one. It could have been a gun that applies debuffs, deletes enemy buffs, heals people and buffs them up/cleanses them, but then we already have the elixier gun, so the medikit turned into a boring buffbot kit that does not even allow you to throw medipacks around unless you get the tier 2 perk in the according tree. Ridiculous!

it’s sad when people slot kits only for their toolbelt skills, which are way better than anything the actual kit brings.

Poplik.8697:

it’s sad when people slot kits only for their toolbelt skills, which are way better than anything the actual kit brings.

Tool kit suffers from this sadly.

Same with rifle turret if you look at its toolbelt.

Graywolf.6513:

While it is not AS needed in vertical systems, that is only if you are damage focused. If i spec my gear for longevity so i can survive and support with my elixir gun or what evs, i lose my survivability by using a kit. Because the only scaled stats are damage based. It would be OP to give all kits a boost to all stats to cover all possible weapons they could have, so it needs to either take our weapon stats into account, or leave us as damage gremlins.

Thank you Graywolf. Your point makes stat/sigil sharing a legitimate issue. To further elaborate, here’s an example. An engineer might chose to roll a shield for dungeons. Hell, he might even pick up the “+90 Toughness with shield equipped” trait. Perhaps he wants to support with strong AoE healing/regen as well. He uses +Healing Power pistol and shield with a “chance to heal” sigil and (of course) the Elixir Gun kit for its 5 ability and Toolbelt skill. The problem? He will lose all his +Healing Power, +Toughness, and his “chance to heal” with the Elixir Gun out. This is a scenario where the issue really comes to light: when an engineer wants to play in a manner that doesn’t solely focus on damage (as they more than often do).

Shriketalon.1937:

What if the system used a sort of placeholder recipe set? In other words, allow engineers to “create” their kits by mixing weapons?

For instance, you get three slots in your inventory, that correspond to Kit 1, Kit 2, and Kit 3. Place certain items in these slots, and they generate different weapon types. Pistol + Torch = Flamethrower, using the pistol and torch’s stats to dictate its abilities. Exchange that torch for a Focus, and you get an Elixir Gun that continues using weapon stats. To activate any of these kits, equip the relevant utility and it supplies you with the kit as normal. This would provide several advantages.

1) As long as all kits have recipes, all kits could use standard item stats.

2) If Anet extended the kit concept to the main inventory slot, Engies could equip weapons directly to their weapon choice instead of using a utility skill.

3) It opens up the possibility of customizing kit appearance. For instance, a flamethrower might have different models for the nozzle based on the pistol, and different packs based on the torch.

If that was in the game I wouldn’t be able to play any other class, that just sounds way too awesome.

Shriketalon.1937:

What if the system used a sort of placeholder recipe set? In other words, allow engineers to “create” their kits by mixing weapons?

For instance, you get three slots in your inventory, that correspond to Kit 1, Kit 2, and Kit 3. Place certain items in these slots, and they generate different weapon types. Pistol + Torch = Flamethrower, using the pistol and torch’s stats to dictate its abilities. Exchange that torch for a Focus, and you get an Elixir Gun that continues using weapon stats. To activate any of these kits, equip the relevant utility and it supplies you with the kit as normal. This would provide several advantages.

1) As long as all kits have recipes, all kits could use standard item stats.

2) If Anet extended the kit concept to the main inventory slot, Engies could equip weapons directly to their weapon choice instead of using a utility skill.

3) It opens up the possibility of customizing kit appearance. For instance, a flamethrower might have different models for the nozzle based on the pistol, and different packs based on the torch.

Love the idea of an engineer actually ‘engineering’ their kit utilites this way and it’s a great solution for the sacrficing of needed stats that equipping kits currently creates.

A solution with less work for the company might be to simply turn up the kits dmg/heals/buffs etc to compensate for the stat loss on equip. It would turn us into glass cannons but that would still be better than the status quo.

I do vaguely remember Anet saying in an ‘ask me anything’ on reddit that they were going to look into somehow getting stats onto weapon kits but have not heard anything about it since then.