Guild Wars 2

When it comes down to it the best skill to use for an Engineer on downed is #4. You’re not likely to interrupt the stomp so do your best to get back up. Having run engineer for quite some time, I know the best way to get the stomp on them is to wait until you get pulled to them, pop your stability on the rare chance they get the detonate off. The only time I ever use the pull is if they are already performing a stomp, and only after I’ve thrown enough junk to clear an aegis or blind, even then the casting time tends to be about 1/4 second too late in the event I’m clearing aegis and blind for the interrupt. Even still if they have stability there’s literally no point in pressing anything other than #4.

That being said, downed states are heavily imbalanced across the board with elementalists at the top and engineers at the bottom. Giving one class the ability to instantly become invulnerable and move away in a downed state yet give another a long casting time just to pull the enemy in close bares not even a remote semblance of balance. The elementalist just needs to go down near enough to a friendly keep/tower entrance to be immune to stomps entirely. Meanwhile the engineer is a guaranteed stomp.

Wanna fix it? #2 skill becomes the current #3 detonate, and the #3 skill becomes “Elixir D” which randomly produces either Mist Form, or Vengeance.

Kimbald.2697:

I think that the down state of other professions is too strong!

When you’re downed, you lost the fight with only an extremely small chance of recovering. Most professions can do way too much that goes beyond the basic idea of lying on the floor strugling to stay alive.

If the majority of professions can goes beyond this, then the problem isn’t everyone else. It’s us.

Nilix.2170:

Kimbald.2697:

I think that the down state of other professions is too strong!

When you’re downed, you lost the fight with only an extremely small chance of recovering. Most professions can do way too much that goes beyond the basic idea of lying on the floor strugling to stay alive.

If the majority of professions can goes beyond this, then the problem isn’t everyone else. It’s us.

Of course, but I mean that I prefer bringing all the others down to our level.
Downed state is ok as an idea, but it’s way too strong in this game.

Not going to happen, I know. Just stating how I see it.

Kimbald.2697:

Nilix.2170:

Kimbald.2697:

I think that the down state of other professions is too strong!

When you’re downed, you lost the fight with only an extremely small chance of recovering. Most professions can do way too much that goes beyond the basic idea of lying on the floor strugling to stay alive.

If the majority of professions can goes beyond this, then the problem isn’t everyone else. It’s us.

Of course, but I mean that I prefer bringing all the others down to our level.
Downed state is ok as an idea, but it’s way too strong in this game.

Not going to happen, I know. Just stating how I see it.

It should be strong. Because no one wants to be weak and useless. And it’s a MUCH worse idea to bring seven classes down to a similar feeling of futility and uselessness than it is to empower one class.

The only way I can see the downed state damage being terrible is if you run a condition build. Or if you don’t realize the fact that if you’re downed away from something you can use 2 to pull it to you (like a weaker mob), then use 3 to blow it up.

Nilix.2170:

Kimbald.2697:

Nilix.2170:

Kimbald.2697:

I think that the down state of other professions is too strong!

When you’re downed, you lost the fight with only an extremely small chance of recovering. Most professions can do way too much that goes beyond the basic idea of lying on the floor strugling to stay alive.

If the majority of professions can goes beyond this, then the problem isn’t everyone else. It’s us.

Of course, but I mean that I prefer bringing all the others down to our level.
Downed state is ok as an idea, but it’s way too strong in this game.

Not going to happen, I know. Just stating how I see it.

It should be strong. Because no one wants to be weak and useless. And it’s a MUCH worse idea to bring seven classes down to a similar feeling of futility and uselessness than it is to empower one class.

we’re not talking about combat.
We are talking about the state you’re in after you already lost the fight…

It should be weak and nearly helpless, just not completely helpless.

It’s downed state, not ‘below 25%’ or anything simular.

Bringing others down, or bringing the weak one up all depends on the goal.
It is never a general strategy which one is best.
A power creep is just as unbalanced for the game as having a weak minority.
Both can be wrong in terms of design.

In the case of downed state, I indeed believe that many of the down states are simply too strong for what they are intended to be.

When a player is downed, he should be using his last effort to stop the final blow, he should NOT be giving you such a fight you actually have to watch your own health after you already beat him…

So yes: compared to others I agree engineer down state needs improving, but i would much rather see a general toning down for the stronger downstates.
Because in this case, I think it’s more balanced to have weak down states.
In other cases, I believe it’s better to buff the weaker one.
There is never a single answer that fits all different problems.

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

Manuhell.2759:

There is a simple logical problem in our downed skills. Unlike the other classes, we pull the enemy to us with #2. That means that what he has to do is simply stomp us immediatly after that, without even having to move, and we won’t even be able to use #3.

Well you probably shouldn’t be pulling them to you unless they are low on health and your #3 is ready. If you go down… and they are away from you, it’s really not smart to use #2 quickly. Force them to run up to you to stomp… wait a smidge after they start the stomp and then use #2 to interrupt. That might give you enough time to hit #3.

I’m fine with how our #2 and #3 work… I just HATE our #1. It’s way too weak.

your theory would be correct except:

Thief shadowsteps stealths and finishes #2 rendered useless

Mesmer blinks/teleports stealths and finishes

Elementalist can simply pop shield up and finish you

Ranger even if he does not have something to block #2 his pet will go after you and not let you heal

Necro Minions will tear you or he’ll just obliterate your heals with conditions

warrior will simply jump at you and land the moher of bursts or just kill shot you and proceed to finish

guardian almost same as warrior except he’ll have a ton of boons do less damage and your #2 wont tickle him cuz of aegis

so Where exactly does #2 save you or where does #3 save you even if you landed it your enemy simply would have to stand up and finish you and now you would be stuck with 20s cooldown.

even if you down them:

Thief does higher damage+ can trait for 50% more and can teleport and stealth

warrior can revive and finish you then laugh maniacally as he runs away

guardian #3 heals them and they can stilll hit you while on the heal field or heal faster with #4

Rangers their pets can attack you while they heal or pets can heal them while they atack

necro steals hp so he denies your healing by attacking you wich in exchange heals Him

mesmer creates clones while downed

Penguin.5197:

Numot.3965:

I manage to win down state fights with my engineer. It really isn’t that bad at all. It was bad in beta when skill 1 did next to nothing in damage, 3 did next to nothing in damage and dropped your hp by a considerable amount. Couldn’t rally off of anything in pve with it, didn’t do too much in pvp with it. Warrior is worse off as they need to either be lucky or trait for vengeance to be really useful.

Warriors vengeance still beats our booby trap. Ive had a few fights were me and a warrior both go down, but they always win thanks to being able to stomp me.

I found booby trap to be pretty useless no matter what others say. In pve I use it..boom! and..10% damage done, 20 if I’m lucky. But by then my health is so low I die either way. In pvp, if theres any chance I am able to use it, same situation.

Thats one of the few situations warriors come out ahead, otherwise our downed skills are pretty comparable to engineers in their patheticness. Our 2 does have the advantage of not yanking the target closer for the stomp but then agian if they are not trying to stomp neither proffesion is likely to use that particular skill. Vengence sadly has the same issue with its CD as your boobytrap. If our opponant is on their toes even with a perfectly timed 2 to interupt the first stomp it will still have a couple seconds by the time the second stomp lands. Realisticly I rarely get a chance to vengence outside of PVE although it has allowed me to get back inside a tower in WvW if the field is too busy for the other team to stomp me right away.

theres another thing no one has noticed apparently #2 and #3 skills have about a 1s cast time too .

I am not sure if engineers have it worst but I know that I lost many 1v1 becouse of the downed state. Which means that I managed to drop him 1st and went down while trying to finish him afterwards and then I was the one loosing the fight. When I am dueling and I put him down with only small amount of HP left for me, my enemy still has an advantage becouse of my inferior downed state. Warrior will win using last stand, ranger will own me with pet healing, guardian will outlast me with his healing field, elem will buy time and outlast using mist form, mesmer will overdamage me and buy few seconds using stealth. I have a feeling a could win downed battle vs a thief but only becouse of how squishy he is (assuming he is full zerker). So yeah, I feel engi downed state needs a buff although it does not bother me THAT often. Its just sad when I “win” a 1v1 and then still end up loosing becouse my enemy has better “3” skill on downed. Could someone for example tell me how should I proceed when I down a ranger and I am left with 20% HP, healing skills on cooldown and his pet attacking me?

Kimbald.2697:

It might not sound as a major difference, but I do not think our down state is bad… I think that the down state of other professions is too strong!

It’s the same thing. It’s bad compared to other professions. However It will be easier to add something strong to the Engineer rather then nerf all other 7 classes.

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

Really? How does a blind effect Vapor Form(ele), Shadow Escape(thief), and Deception(mesmer)?

Congratulations, self-targetted effects aren’t affected by Blind. You learned something about GW2 today.