Guild Wars 2

Edit: This Thread concerns Tpvp only.

Small number condi cleanses are inefficient overall because it leaves time for the opponent to apply new conditions – especially with many of them (elixir throws for example)having animations/cast times that take as long as an attack animation you gain nothing in the end. Also against a big number of covering conditions small number condi cleanses become worthless.

Healing Turret is somewhat decent at cleansing.

elixir gun only offers a single cleanse on 20s(16s) cooldown (projectile finisher is very hard to pull off against decent people because you pretty much have to hit them and almost stand in them to get it to work)

med kit doesnt get you out of immobilize and is only a single condition cleansed

Elixir C being the only decent option but requires a precious utility slot and the throw elixir C skill isnt really useful.

no decent access to lyssa runes (xcept you want to troll with lyssa + elixir ulti + reduced cd)

cleansing formula is borderline useful – requires a traitslot in a strong traitline + cleanses again only 1 condi per elixir + kind of forces elixirs + maybe more elixir traits so you end up with a very specialized build(i.e. HgH) with not much room to swap traits/skills.

I agree that we don’t have much, but it’s a deliberate weakness of the class in my mind. Being able to evade condition skills via constant vigour, blocks and chain cc/blind/pressure makes up for the lack of condition clear (while not running HGH).

It’s why an Engi can get away with running few or no stunbreaks.

I would like to see something deep in the inventions line that gives condi removal though, because conditions are a right plague on defensive/bunker engis, and auto immune response just doesn’t feel like good gameplay.

elixir gun with combo blast or combo projectile (elixir skill 5 + skill 4 or skill 1)
elixir C , alchemy trait X, healing turret, heal kit skill 4 and alchemy sub trait master (transmute)

You can always build your engi to remove conditions on elixiers and you will have loads of conditions removals on an engi instantly.

But letting that aside you still have some nice ways of removing conditions. You just have to use them like with any other class. If you run toolkit and elixir gun for example you can place the healing field on the ground and throw the toolkit toolbelt skill right after that while moving foward which results in one or two additional cond removals regarding if you didnt throw the wrench into a wall or such. Using that and healing turret you can remove up to five conditions every 20 seconds which is more or less average through all classes as you didnt have to use any traits to do that.

Dredd Spirit Caller.4082:

elixir gun with combo blast or combo projectile (elixir skill 5 + skill 4 or skill 1)

You do not appear to be very familiar with combo firlds and finishers my friend. Blast finisher with super elixir(#5) gives AoE retaliation and has nothing to do with condition removal. Now projectile finishers will remove conditions from any friendly they pass after going through the field, but in no way remove conditions from you.

Dredd Spirit Caller.4082:

elixir C , alchemy trait X, healing turret, heal kit skill 4 and alchemy sub trait master (transmute)

*Transmute is not a dependable condition removal, as of now its and low RnG chance.

*Med kit (#4) Drop antidote is undependable in a bad way. immobilize is a condition, yet if you drop antidote you cannot move over it to remove the condition. There for drop antidote is essentially broken.

Cleansing burst is not bad, but it only removes 2 conditions and requires multiple steps. We should not have to double or triple our chance to be interrupted and have it put on kitten cool down.

Elixir C is our only true form of condition removal. Although Formula 409 will add condition removals to all elixirs, it really pigeon holes all our true self cleanses to elixirs and leaves us lacking completely in all other areas for a cleanse.

Gadgets have no cleanse, kits have 2 cleanses on 2 different kits, one is broken in effect, as I mentioned above.

The proposed changes to transmute may change this. As it will perhaps become a 100% chance, but with a longer ICD. Won’t help with conditions already on us tho.

Yes and no.

Yes—due to buffs to other professions, engineer is “behind the curve” when it comes to condition removal. The best trait in the game, cleansing ire, was a fairly recent addition. Before that, engineers had about as much cleanse as the next guy, actually very good cleansing compared to a lot of builds.

No—Honestly, I’d rather see things get toned back, to where most builds could only afford a couple cleanses and condi necros were an attrition build. The bottom line is that rate of condition output and rate of condition removal have both increased drastically since launch.

So I guess the solution is to just go ahead and buff away. I don’t think we’ll see previous buffs reversed, so I suppose that’s the next best thing.

I think the proposed Transmute change will fix a lot of this (100% chance to convert).

Phineas Poe.3018:

I think the proposed Transmute change will fix a lot of this (100% chance to convert).

That’s a buff in PvE but about the same or possibly a nerf in PvP, depending on your situation. Transmute currently is fairly likely to proc more than once every 15 seconds in most PvP situations where condition removal is important. I think most people in this thread are talking about tournaments.

digiowl.9620:

The proposed changes to transmute may change this. As it will perhaps become a 100% chance, but with a longer ICD. Won’t help with conditions already on us tho.

Which all and all really annoys me that after all of this time we are just now getting a passive internal cool down passive condition removal trait with a 50% longer ICD then so many other professions.

coglin.1867:

digiowl.9620:

The proposed changes to transmute may change this. As it will perhaps become a 100% chance, but with a longer ICD. Won’t help with conditions already on us tho.

Which all and all really annoys me that after all of this time we are just now getting a passive internal cool down passive condition removal trait with a 50% longer ICD then so many other professions.

Transmute will be about as good as the other “remove a condition every ten seconds” sigils/traits. The boon gain is something, and always getting the condition removed immediately is something. As well as always being immune to the first condition tossed on you in a fight.

I’m still not sure if it’s better than the current version, but it should be about as strong as the other passive condi removal traits, even with a 50% longer cooldown. Plus, it’s a minor trait, which is really nice.

Yo make a good point. The fact that there is a boon, and always getting the condition removed immediately is indeed something. As well as always being immune to the first condition tossed on you in a fight will prove handy. As mostly this s some type of immobilize, which would be turned to swiftness, it will prove to be much better then I originally saw it.

Thanks for putting that into perspective.

coglin.1867:

Yo make a good point. The fact that there is a boon, and always getting the condition removed immediately is indeed something. As well as always being immune to the first condition tossed on you in a fight will prove handy. As mostly this s some type of immobilize, which would be turned to swiftness, it will prove to be much better then I originally saw it.

Thanks for putting that into perspective.

It isn’t a solution to a low-cleanse build, but it would be somewhat helpful unless you face a necro, or a ranger, who are applying bleeds one or two at a time. So it converts the first one, and then it’s done for the next 15 seconds, and you need other cleanses pretty quickly. And necro’s who have condition transfer or corrupt boon available are itching to find some engineers with more than 5 points in alchemy.

Don’t pop that Elixir C too quickly.

Engineers who spec for condition removals have options to do so. Elixir C, Elixir Gun, Antidote, and Healing Turret all offer a measure of condition management. Coupled with Leg Mods (a Matster trait that is an overtly lesser version of an Adept Tier Warrior trait), Cleansing Formula 409, and Automated Response, can make for a very specific condition counter spec. This of course can be blended with options available to every class such as Runes of Lyssa, Lemongrass or Safron Poultry soup food to reduce durations or clear conditions altogether.

If the premise is that it’s difficult for the average Engineer to counter conditions, then you’re correct. Many classes such as Necromancers, Warriors, Guardians, Thieves, Rangers, and Elementalists have much more viable options for much less investment allowing for builds that do not specifically counter conditions to do so passively or as a byproduct of the play style.

Will it get addressed? Not likely any time even remotely soon. They’ll probably balance it the day after I completely quit the game…haven’t played in over two weeks anyhow, Engineers get no love.

Every time I try to go back to my Engi, this is what stops me (that and the hobosacks).

Ele with nothing but ether renewal > Engi built specifically for condition removal.

Obscure One.4357:

Engineers who spec for condition removals have options to do so. Elixir C, Elixir Gun, Antidote, and Healing Turret all offer a measure of condition management. Coupled with Leg Mods (a Matster trait that is an overtly lesser version of an Adept Tier Warrior trait), Cleansing Formula 409, and Automated Response, can make for a very specific condition counter spec. This of course can be blended with options available to every class such as Runes of Lyssa, Lemongrass or Safron Poultry soup food to reduce durations or clear conditions altogether.

Part of the issue being discussed is in reference to self cleanse. Its all focused on elixirs and the healing turret. Kits and gadgets have little to know self cleanse. We are speaking of the profession itself, partially in comparison to other. As all professions have access to the mentioned food, runes, and sigil, they kind of end up being irrelevant in a profession specific discussion.

when we lose our permanent vigor it will be interesting to see how our lack of condition removal stacks up (hgh aside)

Why would we not have permanent vigor? Infused precision + invigorating speed with any decent crit chance is perma vigor. Which sure as heck beats the button management of having to swap in then out of a kit every 5 sec. Its much easier, much more intuitive to game play, and much much more intelligent to use the combination I mentioned over depending on speedy kits and kitten kit swap management system to keep vigor up.

As well, with any boon duration, it is easy to stack up plenty of duration. Either way, you absolutely have to have 2 traits for permavigor, or depend on an outside source.

As permavigor will not be going anywhere, I do not see how it is relevant.

titanlectro.5029:

Every time I try to go back to my Engi, this is what stops me (that and the hobosacks).

Ele with nothing but ether renewal > Engi built specifically for condition removal.

Such a good healing skill. But Ether Renewal is so easily interrupted in PvP/WvW.

coglin.1867:

Why would we not have permanent vigor? Infused precision + invigorating speed with any decent crit chance is perma vigor. Which sure as heck beats the button management of having to swap in then out of a kit every 5 sec. Its much easier, much more intuitive to game play, and much much more intelligent to use the combination I mentioned over depending on speedy kits and kitten kit swap management system to keep vigor up.

As well, with any boon duration, it is easy to stack up plenty of duration. Either way, you absolutely have to have 2 traits for permavigor, or depend on an outside source.

As permavigor will not be going anywhere, I do not see how it is relevant.

I know right? I’m kind of tired of hearing about the Great Vigor Nerf of 2013.

Not only that, but I would like to see a record of how much time all these people complaining about this phantom nerf actually spend with full endurance. You know, because vigor does nothing when you’re at full endurance.

I agree with this thread with 1 caveat, Engis have insufficient condition cleanse if you don’t trait for it. Saying Eles (or any profession) can do it better is meaningless because professions are by definition different, but unless you trait specifically into elixirs and Cleansing Formula 409 I agree our condition removal is quite poor.

Adamantium.3682:

coglin.1867:

Why would we not have permanent vigor? Infused precision + invigorating speed with any decent crit chance is perma vigor. Which sure as heck beats the button management of having to swap in then out of a kit every 5 sec. Its much easier, much more intuitive to game play, and much much more intelligent to use the combination I mentioned over depending on speedy kits and kitten kit swap management system to keep vigor up.

As well, with any boon duration, it is easy to stack up plenty of duration. Either way, you absolutely have to have 2 traits for permavigor, or depend on an outside source.

As permavigor will not be going anywhere, I do not see how it is relevant.

I know right? I’m kind of tired of hearing about the Great Vigor Nerf of 2013.

Not only that, but I would like to see a record of how much time all these people complaining about this phantom nerf actually spend with full endurance. You know, because vigor does nothing when you’re at full endurance.

I agree with this thread with 1 caveat, Engis have insufficient condition cleanse if you don’t trait for it. Saying Eles (or any profession) can do it better is meaningless because professions are by definition different, but unless you trait specifically into elixirs and Cleansing Formula 409 I agree our condition removal is quite poor.

I’m less interested in how people plan to get permanent vigor and more interested in how people plan to adapt to the change and how it will effect us in spvp, you can’t put 30 points into getting permanent vigor in spvp without taking away from what your build is ment to do.

I’ll go more in-depth about the topic when I finish, till then put some thought into it

ukuni.8745:

Adamantium.3682:

coglin.1867:

Why would we not have permanent vigor? Infused precision + invigorating speed with any decent crit chance is perma vigor. Which sure as heck beats the button management of having to swap in then out of a kit every 5 sec. Its much easier, much more intuitive to game play, and much much more intelligent to use the combination I mentioned over depending on speedy kits and kitten kit swap management system to keep vigor up.

As well, with any boon duration, it is easy to stack up plenty of duration. Either way, you absolutely have to have 2 traits for permavigor, or depend on an outside source.

As permavigor will not be going anywhere, I do not see how it is relevant.

I know right? I’m kind of tired of hearing about the Great Vigor Nerf of 2013.

Not only that, but I would like to see a record of how much time all these people complaining about this phantom nerf actually spend with full endurance. You know, because vigor does nothing when you’re at full endurance.

I agree with this thread with 1 caveat, Engis have insufficient condition cleanse if you don’t trait for it. Saying Eles (or any profession) can do it better is meaningless because professions are by definition different, but unless you trait specifically into elixirs and Cleansing Formula 409 I agree our condition removal is quite poor.

I’m less interested in how people plan to get permanent vigor and more interested in how people plan to adapt to the change and how it will effect us in spvp, you can’t put 30 points into getting permanent vigor in spvp without taking away from what your build is ment to do.

I’ll go more in-depth about the topic when I finish, till then put some thought into it

You still only need 20 points, as has been gone over ad nauseum.

Adamantium.3682:

ukuni.8745:

Adamantium.3682:

coglin.1867:

Why would we not have permanent vigor? Infused precision + invigorating speed with any decent crit chance is perma vigor. Which sure as heck beats the button management of having to swap in then out of a kit every 5 sec. Its much easier, much more intuitive to game play, and much much more intelligent to use the combination I mentioned over depending on speedy kits and kitten kit swap management system to keep vigor up.

As well, with any boon duration, it is easy to stack up plenty of duration. Either way, you absolutely have to have 2 traits for permavigor, or depend on an outside source.

As permavigor will not be going anywhere, I do not see how it is relevant.

I know right? I’m kind of tired of hearing about the Great Vigor Nerf of 2013.

Not only that, but I would like to see a record of how much time all these people complaining about this phantom nerf actually spend with full endurance. You know, because vigor does nothing when you’re at full endurance.

I agree with this thread with 1 caveat, Engis have insufficient condition cleanse if you don’t trait for it. Saying Eles (or any profession) can do it better is meaningless because professions are by definition different, but unless you trait specifically into elixirs and Cleansing Formula 409 I agree our condition removal is quite poor.

I’m less interested in how people plan to get permanent vigor and more interested in how people plan to adapt to the change and how it will effect us in spvp, you can’t put 30 points into getting permanent vigor in spvp without taking away from what your build is ment to do.

I’ll go more in-depth about the topic when I finish, till then put some thought into it

You still only need 20 points, as has been gone over ad nauseum.

when the patch comes will it be viable taking it at all you could put those points else where currently it’s heavy relied upon to make up for our lack of condition removal outside of hgh builds, after the patch you will only be able to upkeep half the amount unless you aim to get it also assume there is a pritty good chance it can be removed, meaning you won’t have vigor up very much, will you be able to sustain nearly as effective as current or will it warrant changing builds completely, these are the things that need to be looked at.

as it stands now the permanent vigor really allows engineers to get in your face and stay there while having decent sustain because it can avoid so much but you take away that ability to avoid so much and what are you left with to sustain your self, at best without hgh is 3 conditions every 15 seconds and that assuming you ant blasting your healing turret and you using elixir gun with traits, now that could go all right but what do you lose upon taking that setup, and the answer is better tank or better damage, which is a pritty big issue now since traits like incendiary powder are being moved further up the trait line, will you even be able to deal effective enough damage to make you potentially better option then another class, and if that is the case what could you bring to a team otherwise that makes engineers a very viable option

Dude… Infused Precision + Invigorating speed. 20 points. Perma vigor.

Adamantium.3682:

Dude… Infused Precision + Invigorating speed. 20 points. Perma vigor.

that’s nice but please tell me what build will you run with that and how does it make you a more viable option on a team then any other class? and remember I’m talking about spvp

ukuni.8745:

Adamantium.3682:

Dude… Infused Precision + Invigorating speed. 20 points. Perma vigor.

that’s nice but please tell me what build will you run with that and how does it make you a more viable option on a team then any other class? and remember I’m talking about spvp

I’m not going to list out all the builds that can use 10 points in Firearms and 10 points in Alchemy, let’s be real. That’s 50 more trait points you can put into a myriad of different builds. I’m not sure why you want me to do this or what it would prove.

You’re deviating from the point here, which is permanent vigor is NOT gone. You just can’t get it with Speedy Kits anymore.

NevirSayDie.6235:

Transmute will be about as good as the other “remove a condition every ten seconds” sigils/traits. The boon gain is something, and always getting the condition removed immediately is something. As well as always being immune to the first condition tossed on you in a fight.

>I’m still not sure if it’s better than the current version,<

Imo its not as good as the current – 1st condition removed in the fight ? yay .. so i just apply a random pistol shot first to proc the 1 sec bleed block from transmute..

and even worse you will be able to tell the approximate time for the proc

Fast Asleep.8475:

You can always build your engi to remove conditions on elixiers and you will have loads of conditions removals on an engi instantly.

No you cant. You clearly didnt read what i wrote – people will reapply conditions faster than our single / duo cleanses can remove them. by just spamming certain autoattakcs/skills.

Being able to cleanse all condis from signet of spite one by one doesnt matter if it takes you so long that the low priority condis have killed you by the time you get to them

Also getting multiple elixirs as utilites is pretty bad unless you go for a full HGH build which pidgeonholes the use of the trait.

Only decent one is elixir C but with no weapon swap on engi and a very bad tool belt skill on elixir C it is simply not viable enough xcept to hard counter setups.

coglin.1867:

Why would we not have permanent vigor? Infused precision + invigorating speed with any decent crit chance is perma vigor. Which sure as heck beats the button management of having to swap in then out of a kit every 5 sec. Its much easier, much more intuitive to game play, and much much more intelligent to use the combination I mentioned over depending on speedy kits and kitten kit swap management system to keep vigor up.

The nerf is specifically intended for making you choose between out of combat mobility and offensive perma vigor as far as i understand it

Kit swapping was ez enough

Cleansing formula is good, but only in alchemy/elixer builds..
The alchemy is the best trait line anyway i think.
Healing turret is nice, but i prefer easy med kit swapping mostly for buff trigger etc.
The elixerC is good, but its slow animation is a bit lame. If it were an instant effect it would be much more effective..
Elixer gun is ok i spose, not that good though for condi removing.
Dont forget rocket boots or overcharged shot are good escape skills, and stunbreakers.

I run with Heal Turret + Elixir Gun + Lyssa runes and rarely have a problem managing conditions.

It appears your attempting to suggest a rune set as a solution to a condition removal issue. That raises two issues in itself. For one, its based on the use of an elite skill, which all have extended cool downs. Elites are not intended to be used as condition removal. Secondly, were are discussing the condition removal issue in terms of the profession as a wgole and its limitations anywhere. When you bring sigils and runes into the discussion, you have to remember that every profession can use them.

A professions ability to accomplish a necessary should not be linked to a rune or sigil.

RaynStargaze.6510:

coglin.1867:

Why would we not have permanent vigor? Infused precision + invigorating speed with any decent crit chance is perma vigor. Which sure as heck beats the button management of having to swap in then out of a kit every 5 sec. Its much easier, much more intuitive to game play, and much much more intelligent to use the combination I mentioned over depending on speedy kits and kitten kit swap management system to keep vigor up.

The nerf is specifically intended for making you choose between out of combat mobility and offensive perma vigor as far as i understand it

Kit swapping was ez enough

Infused Precision plus Invigorating Speed does not equal permanent vigor unless you have a very high crit chance and increased boon duration.

An engineer with 30% crit chance has a chance of 15% to trigger swiftness, but only if Infused Precision is off cooldown. After four attacks the chance to not trigger swiftness is 52%, after 10 attacks it is still 19.7%.
Let’s assume this engineer has 30% boon duration, this leaves a window of 1.5 seconds to trigger swiftness, otherwise vigor will expire. Now let us assume this engineer somehow manages to land 10 attacks in 1.5 seconds, one out of five times he will still not get swiftness/vigor.

coglin.1867:

It appears your attempting to suggest a rune set as a solution to a condition removal issue. That raises two issues in itself. For one, its based on the use of an elite skill, which all have extended cool downs. Elites are not intended to be used as condition removal. Secondly, were are discussing the condition removal issue in terms of the profession as a wgole and its limitations anywhere. When you bring sigils and runes into the discussion, you have to remember that every profession can use them.

A professions ability to accomplish a necessary should not be linked to a rune or sigil.

Then take elixir c? The condi removal from it’s toolbelt ALONE makes it worth taking imo. The utility itself is amazing. I just don’t because I use Fumigate for group condi removal.

K U T M, that is kind of my point, Elixir C is our only choice and I feel we need more. I disagree that the tool belt skill is worth it alone. Its not a bad skill, but one condition every 30s isn’t anything to get excited about.

As far as fumigate goes, yeah I love it. I just happen to dislike our limitations for self cleanse.

coglin.1867:

K U T M, that is kind of my point, Elixir C is our only choice and I feel we need more. I disagree that the tool belt skill is worth it alone. Its not a bad skill, but one condition every 30s isn’t anything to get excited about.

As far as fumigate goes, yeah I love it. I just happen to dislike our limitations for self cleanse.

I think the only classes that aren’t pigeonholed into condition removal are ele (though recently, the ones I’ve fought have been bringing all the self cleanse they can) and guardian.

Ranger: Empathetic Bond, Signet, healing spring

Warrior: Zerker Stance, Cleansing Ire

Necromancer: Condi transfer on weapon sets, Consume Conditions

Thief: Remove condis in stealth, lyssa+bask venom, shadowstep

Mesmer: Nullfield, Disenchanter, mender’s purity, traited torch. (More options than most tbh, but they mainly remove 1-3 conditons)

Engineer: Elixir C, Heal Turret, Elixir Gun, remove condi on elixir, toss elixir r, automated response

Automated response – is not a cleanse.

Elixir R – Really? After the nerf it is very undesirable.

Elixir Gun – requires switching to the kit and ground targeting for one condition cleared with Super Elixir. and Fumigate won’t cleanse yourself.

Heal Turret – requires a “process” to cleanse anything.

Remove condi on elixir – Basically restricted to fairly specific builds.

Elixir C – This is the only true cleanse we have for ourselves, but it is a pain being restricted to elixirs only for a cleanse.

This is just how I feel about the limitations of the list your presented. When you look at it as a whole, it doesn’t look too bad, but when you try to put it into a build and want successful or comparative cleansing, I just don’t feel it leavs you with near as solid a build as you can get in solid builds when I play my other professions.

coglin.1867:

Automated response – is not a cleanse.

Elixir R – Really? After the nerf it is very undesirable.

Elixir Gun – requires switching to the kit and ground targeting for one condition cleared with Super Elixir. and Fumigate won’t cleanse yourself.

Heal Turret – requires a “process” to cleanse anything.

Remove condi on elixir – Basically restricted to fairly specific builds.

Elixir C – This is the only true cleanse we have for ourselves, but it is a pain being restricted to elixirs only for a cleanse.

This is just how I feel about the limitations of the list your presented. When you look at it as a whole, it doesn’t look too bad, but when you try to put it into a build and want successful or comparative cleansing, I just don’t feel it leavs you with near as solid a build as you can get in solid builds when I play my other professions.

I put Automated Response because it’s condi-hate.

Elixir R is great in pvp with it traited to recharge at 25% health. Can use it to remove conditions and then as a self rez.

I have ranger/mesmer/guardian at 80 as well, and I’m more confident fighting condition specs on engi than any of them.

I kind of agree though, I play mainly a 3 kit engi, and until we have decent self cleanse from a kit, there’s not much we can do. What ArenaNet can’t do though, is just throw us more condition removal, because it could be horribly unbalanced if it fits into every build.

I understand why you put Automated response in there, but I was just trying to stay on the topic of cleanses.

Every engineer I know or read about had all but abandoned Elixir R for what I feel is a good reason. I doubt you will have any luck convincing me, or anyone else that players would take this for a cleanse, or even use it very often at all anymore, with the exception of a full alchemy line invested elixir build, which is the one build that we have almost got an excess of cleansing.

(I have all professions leveled to 80) It is very hard not to lose all respect for you the second you try to suggest Engineer deal with incoming conditions better then guardian, so lets not open that discussion :p

But yeah, it is a terrible thing that you can be a 3 or 4 kit engineer and have 20-25 skills available to you and only be able to cleans 2 conditions in 20s and have to swap into 2 separate kits to do it. That is 4 button presses for 2 conditions, and any CC that doesn’t interrupt you can still prevent you from getting to the “dropped” antidote once that is cast.

I can’t believe anyone thought drop antidote was a good idea, it definitely needs some work.

K U T M.4539:

coglin.1867:

It appears your attempting to suggest a rune set as a solution to a condition removal issue. That raises two issues in itself. For one, its based on the use of an elite skill, which all have extended cool downs. Elites are not intended to be used as condition removal. Secondly, were are discussing the condition removal issue in terms of the profession as a wgole and its limitations anywhere. When you bring sigils and runes into the discussion, you have to remember that every profession can use them.

A professions ability to accomplish a necessary should not be linked to a rune or sigil.

Then take elixir c? The condi removal from it’s toolbelt ALONE makes it worth taking imo. The utility itself is amazing. I just don’t because I use Fumigate for group condi removal.

Personally i will pick elixir C once we get a 2nd weapon option and a weapon swap – until then its too kittening expensive to pick and the toolbelt is too bad as i have said multiple times

@ elixir R – using the throw for condi remove is 99% of the time just EXTREMELY HORRIBLE TERRIBAD play -

personally i dont even think mesmers aoe boon / condi remove per tick aoe thingy is good (actually i think its a joke because again i can spam condis faster than that thing removes them) so im sure as hell not going to use a matchwinning 130 second cooldown ability to cleanse some condis in a fight we might lose anyway.

GOD srsly using throw R for removing condis ARE YOU KIDDING ME? OMG!

2nd edit: automated response is trash unless you run a really cheesy build to counter your opponents full condi setup / a specific condi player of the enemy team. Most of the time you wont even have anything from the condi immune because the condis stacked until that point will just destroy you (unless you bring elixir C as well which makes the build even more cheesy anti condi BS)

Mork vom Ork.2598:

RaynStargaze.6510:

coglin.1867:

Why would we not have permanent vigor? Infused precision + invigorating speed with any decent crit chance is perma vigor. Which sure as heck beats the button management of having to swap in then out of a kit every 5 sec. Its much easier, much more intuitive to game play, and much much more intelligent to use the combination I mentioned over depending on speedy kits and kitten kit swap management system to keep vigor up.

The nerf is specifically intended for making you choose between out of combat mobility and offensive perma vigor as far as i understand it

Kit swapping was ez enough

Infused Precision plus Invigorating Speed does not equal permanent vigor unless you have a very high crit chance and increased boon duration.

An engineer with 30% crit chance has a chance of 15% to trigger swiftness, but only if Infused Precision is off cooldown. After four attacks the chance to not trigger swiftness is 52%, after 10 attacks it is still 19.7%.
Let’s assume this engineer has 30% boon duration, this leaves a window of 1.5 seconds to trigger swiftness, otherwise vigor will expire. Now let us assume this engineer somehow manages to land 10 attacks in 1.5 seconds, one out of five times he will still not get swiftness/vigor.

I very much agree with you Mork but was too lazy to type it all out so i just wrote “offensive perma vigor”.

yea its meh

Vote for Elixir C for stun breaker

NevirSayDie.6235:

Transmute will be about as good as the other “remove a condition every ten seconds” sigils/traits. The boon gain is something, and always getting the condition removed immediately is something. As well as always being immune to the first condition tossed on you in a fight.

I’m still not sure if it’s better than the current version, but it should be about as strong as the other passive condi removal traits, even with a 50% longer cooldown. Plus, it’s a minor trait, which is really nice.

I realize the post i’m quoting is a bit old, but i’ll reply anyway.
Transmute is much worse than those “remove a condition every ten seconds”.
As it works only with incoming conditions, thus doing nothing about the ones already applied – even if they are of the same type of the one just transmuted.
So the cleansing effect is actually quite minor, and we have no control upon its activation anyway.
And due of that, what we get is basically a random boon – nothing we can rely on.
We had no control even with the previous version, but at least it acted as a sort of passive condition resistance. Now the lack of control will even work against us, making it quite worthless.

In the end, for being the only passive removal we can get, it is actually quite bad.

I think we have a fair amount, it’s just all pretty specialized into one area, and you partially rely on traits for it. I do think that maybe the -100% Expertise on incoming conditions below 25% HP is a reason why we got some weakness in turn.

That being said, between Elixir C and the gun I feel like I got some with me at all times.

Plus hey, could be worse. Could be a Mesmer. I don’t think they even have a 10s-cure signet or trait.

Carighan.6758:

I think we have a fair amount, it’s just all pretty specialized into one area, and you partially rely on traits for it. I do think that maybe the -100% Expertise on incoming conditions below 25% HP is a reason why we got some weakness in turn.

That being said, between Elixir C and the gun I feel like I got some with me at all times.

Plus hey, could be worse. Could be a Mesmer. I don’t think they even have a 10s-cure signet or trait.

Their condi removal might be pretty insane after the dec 10th patch.

Looks like we drop in our builds to the last place if you look at the condition removal after patch.

I definitely wouldn’t hate more cleanses, or a passive option. I’d point out that there are two “cleanses” not talked about – Rocket Boots and Rifle #4 both clear all 3 movement impairing conditions. Using them right before a different cleanse like the HT can really strip off a lot of red icons.

That said, kitten condi spamming mesmers.

Kurieg.4158:

I definitely wouldn’t hate more cleanses, or a passive option. I’d point out that there are two “cleanses” not talked about – Rocket Boots and Rifle #4 both clear all 3 movement impairing conditions. Using them right before a different cleanse like the HT can really strip off a lot of red icons.

Rifle #4 clean cripple or chill?