Guild Wars 2

I played against this insanely high burst engineer build today, does anyone know what that build is and how to counter it? It seemed to have strong ranged, a pull, throwing down a lot of bomb type things and have this burst rotation that could one shot me-the main burst seemed to come from placing mines or something. He also had that skill that shrinks the engineer that most seem to run.

It’s 100 Nades.

http://www.intothemists.com/calc/?build=-V70;0B-sPVg0l6cQFx0;9;4TJ;0J46A38;535-L;2N0-Ewk2Ewk25BK

The burst part of it can only be pulled off when they get close enough to literally be inside you. Don’t let them do that. Their two defensive cooldowns are Elixir S and a Shield Block, beyond that they are pretty squishy. They are however, pretty evasive with multiple boxes of nails and perma-swiftness.

You are prolly talking about the 100 nades build.

The best way to counter it, is to stay at range. Any class that can stay at range should be ok with it.

If you get net shotted, pulled, or CC’ed, for the mother of all, use your defensive cooldown. They are prolly setting up their combo.

100 nade engineer use a combo that rely on being “inside” the ennemy, that’s why they usually have to CC you.

If you block/dodge/evade it, they will be a lot weaker. 95% of them are glass cannon, so just unload on them. If they use mini me (Elixir S) jsut run behind and wait 3 second.

100 nade is a really strong build, and we are currently talking about it on the engineer forum. Right now, most agree that one shotting people is cheap. But as long as our other build are weak, and that thief/shatter mesmer/100b warrior can burst too, we don’t have the choice.

It’s funny how most balance discussions in GW2 evolve around either 1-shotting people or being an unkillable Bunker.

@Dee jay

None of those are fun.

Well I personnaly really think one shotting build hurt the game.

I use the 100 nade build, because I feel gimped if I don’t use it. To be honest, I have some fun one shotting people. But on the other end, the player I one shotted have 0 fun. And I have 0 fun when a thief surprise me and one shot me with quickness.

I prefer a more balanced approch. Sadly we don’t have many effective build as an engineer. :P

Dee Jay.2460:

It’s funny how most balance discussions in GW2 evolve around either 1-shotting people or being an unkillable Bunker.

And then everyone comes into the threads asking for a larger variety of balanced PvP amulets and says it would ruin everything But I digress…

The hundred nades build is pretty much exactly the same as a warrior using hundred blades and frenzy. They have two cc moves to set up their burst—net shot and magnet.

Magnet has a 1.25 second cast time and will show a faint glowing line between him and you. You can dodge it, or just let it hit you and dodge after, because it doesn’t do any damage. Magnet will pull you to the engineer.

Net shot is on a very short cooldown (usually 8 seconds). It is also easy to dodge because it moves so slowly, but you can’t dodge every single one of them. If you’re not in melee range, you can avoid the net shots by walking sideways—you don’t have to blow a dodge. Net shot also doesn’t do any damage, so don’t feel like you have to dodge all of them. Net shot will immobilize you for 2 and a half seconds.

If the engineer does land a magnet and a net shot both on you one right after the other—use every defensive button you have because you’re about to take 9k-15k damage, depending on whether or not you have any toughness. As others have said, the engineer has to be even closer than melee range for it to work—standing right inside of you.

The burst itself isn’t as strong as what the other burst classes have to offer either. I generally agree as well that the burst across the board needs to be toned down, but as long as Thieves are used a baseline for burst damage we are comfortably below that. Generally the build only one-shots glass cannon Thieves, Eles, and Mesmers.

100 nade is a really strong build, and we are currently talking about it on the engineer forum.

If you define “strong” by “owning glasscannons in sPvP hot-joins when getting really lucky on setup, otherwise being incredibly useless in tPvP or where it matters”, then I guess.

Even then, the burst isn’t as reliable nor good as 100 Blades, etc.

Thank you, engineer is the only class I haven’t played so its always a bit of a mystery; they seem to have quite a few interesting builds though- some are very difficult to kill. l I will have to try it out when I get motivated.

Is the 100 nades build the one where they use rifle and the trait that makes them cast chain lightning when they use a gadget, ive seen that one quite often recently.

You can counter the 100 nades build with Feedback from mesmer (confusion hurts them hard as well). Also stay at ranged with them or else you will get hurt. Running a somewhat tanky build with constant pressure will also kill the engi build. Hope that helps GL.

Ayestes.1273:

The burst itself isn’t as strong as what the other burst classes have to offer either. I generally agree as well that the burst across the board needs to be toned down, but as long as Thieves are used a baseline for burst damage we are comfortably below that. Generally the build only one-shots glass cannon Thieves, Eles, and Mesmers.

All I know is that no other build/class has one shotted me like that for quite some time. Even with thieves I usually seem to have enough time to live after the initial burst. Warriors rarely are able to pull of the hundred blades combo, sometimes I get caught or partially caught but not often.

Now that I know some of the dynamics it should be easier to avoid though. I also got owned easily underwater which was a first for my ranger. Note that ranger has no build that can do this kind of thing as far as I know.

One more question- what is the CD on that burst?

If you see an engi chucking grenades, just treat him exactly as you would a hundred blades warrior—the burst setup and delivery is somewhat similar, and they have the same weaknesses (slows, cc, condi-remove their immobilize).

The cooldown for the grenade barrage skill is usually 24 or 27 seconds, depending on what version of 100nades the engi is running. They’ll use it once per fight, no more or less.

@NevirSayDie

It’s less then that. I think it’s about 20 second.

@Vyndetta

I got Feedbacked once by a mesmer, and man did it hurt :P

@Mickers

No, this is our Static Discharge build.

@Yasha

The burst shouldn’t hit you more then a BS thief. I only one shot glass cannon, balanced build will usually survive this combo.

@Gilgamesh

Say that to Five Gauge, who use it in paid tpvp. Teldo also use it I think.

You don’t only rely on your combo. The deal with 100 nade build, is that you have many others option.

You have many defensive cooldown,
You have 1500 range grenade spam,
You have CC,
You have rifle dps.

If you only rely on your combo, maybe you’ll be stuck in spvp. But you only need Grenade kit for this build, the rest is up to you.

Yasha.5963:

All I know is that no other build/class has one shotted me like that for quite some time. Even with thieves I usually seem to have enough time to live after the initial burst. Warriors rarely are able to pull of the hundred blades combo, sometimes I get caught or partially caught but not often.

Now that I know some of the dynamics it should be easier to avoid though. I also got owned easily underwater which was a first for my ranger. Note that ranger has no build that can do this kind of thing as far as I know.

One more question- what is the CD on that burst?

While a Frenzied Warrior does more damage overall, I’d fully admit the burst from 100 Nades is over in an instant. The main chunk of the damage (x14 Grenade Hits) happens at the same time.

The cooldown is limited by Kit Refinement on a Grenade Kit which is 20 seconds, and Grenade Barrage which is I think around 24 seconds in this build.

Underwater Engineers have always been this powerful since they don’t necessarily have to use the often terrible underwater weapon skills. Grenades underwater are also targeted underwater, which can make them more accurate in some situations.

Ayestes.1273:

I`m stupid incompetent and cant really use my brain at all so i just troll the forums

So heres my list for kitten like you who need other ppl to tell them in detail how to play

2 Eles

Scepter Dagger + valkyrie because only kitten play dagger dagger – dagger dagger doesnt work with 5 crit skill because it has too many hits in general (anyone with a brain couldve figured that out – you apparently couldnt)

Dragons tooth hits between 8K to 10K Fire grab around 6K (those are GUARANTEED! crits) + phoenix which is just plain awesome

You need someone to lock the enemy down for dragons tooth to connect – thats why you got 2 eles (mesmer also pretty good at that) and the rest of your team (def guards always bring good lockdown as well)

not only that but the eles also both got 2 AOE! heals for a little more than 1.5K each adding up to 6K Aoe heal even without their actual heal skills and without any healing scaling

They both get sic thoughness from valkyrie and max power + crit dmg

Ele has average base vitality

Both eles have aoe condi rmv – both eles have decent amount of vigor!!!! and swiftness both eles have ride the lightning for insane mobility

both eles can creathe a fire field and throw in up to 3 blast finishers (usually you dont see more than 2 because the earth one has too high cd) for up to 18!!!! stacks of AOE!!! might with 20 second duration

and you want to tell me valkyrie damage is bad?

you seriously want to tell me this isnt op as hell?

this conversation ends here im sick of talking to kitten like yourself – 90% of the mmo crowd is just too kitten stupid to play i swear…

RaynStargaze.6510:

Ayestes.1273:

I`m stupid incompetent and cant really use my brain at all so i just troll the forums

So heres my list for kitten like you who need other ppl to tell them in detail how to play

2 Eles

Scepter Dagger + valkyrie because only kitten play dagger dagger – dagger dagger doesnt work with 5 crit skill because it has too many hits in general (anyone with a brain couldve figured that out – you apparently couldnt)

Dragons tooth hits between 8K to 10K Fire grab around 6K (those are GUARANTEED! crits) + phoenix which is just plain awesome

You need someone to lock the enemy down for dragons tooth to connect – thats why you got 2 eles (mesmer also pretty good at that) and the rest of your team (def guards always bring good lockdown as well)

not only that but the eles also both got 2 AOE! heals for a little more than 1.5K each adding up to 6K Aoe heal even without their actual heal skills and without any healing scaling

They both get sic thoughness from valkyrie and max power + crit dmg

Ele has average base vitality

Both eles have aoe condi rmv – both eles have decent amount of vigor!!!! and swiftness both eles have ride the lightning for insane mobility

both eles can creathe a fire field and throw in up to 3 blast finishers (usually you dont see more than 2 because the earth one has too high cd) for up to 18!!!! stacks of AOE!!! might with 20 second duration

and you want to tell me valkyrie damage is bad?

you seriously want to tell me this isnt op as hell?

this conversation ends here im sick of talking to kitten like yourself – 90% of the mmo crowd is just too kitten stupid to play i swear…

Where the hell did that come from?

Ahahah

I’m so confused right now. I don’t even remember talking about Ele stuff recently. Heck I personally think the Ele is the strongest sPvP profession in the game right now. Particularly because of the Valk Amulet. I have to reiterate that I’m so bloody confused right now. What does any of that even have to do with 100 Nades anyway?

I think it was a misquote or something.

But seems like Rayns had a rage moment on the forum.

Ele’s are seriously , in all probability the strongest class in the game, its not about how much variety of specs they have that are viable, the mesmer doesn’t have very many viable specs, but , like the ele, its very powerful.

I see all paid teams running ele, its doubled up on more than any other class, its good in team fights, and 1on1, and mobility, and healing allies, and bunkering, decent dps. Aoe stacking is common in the meta now, eles good at this also.

You could make a serious case for this being the strongest class in the game, its certainly a contender. YOu can just see this from paids.

RaynStargaze.6510:

Ayestes.1273:

I`m stupid incompetent and cant really use my brain at all so i just troll the forums

So heres my list for kitten like you who need other ppl to tell them in detail how to play

snip

this conversation ends here im sick of talking to kitten like yourself – 90% of the mmo crowd is just too kitten stupid to play i swear…

Not sure if troll, or just really huge jerk.

Everything you post about seems to be really random, uncalled for, or just plain bad.

-1

Edit: Just to keep it more constructive.

@OP, Yasha, that was me who you were facing in hotjoins yesterday afternoon, if you’re interested in finding more about that build, I just posted a guide yesterday.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Five-Gauge-s-100nade-Guide/first#post1272424

RaynStargaze.6510:

Ayestes.1273:

I`m stupid incompetent and cant really use my brain at all so i just troll the forums

So heres my list for kitten like you who need other ppl to tell them in detail how to play

2 Eles

Scepter Dagger + valkyrie because only kitten play dagger dagger – dagger dagger doesnt work with 5 crit skill because it has too many hits in general (anyone with a brain couldve figured that out – you apparently couldnt)

Dragons tooth hits between 8K to 10K Fire grab around 6K (those are GUARANTEED! crits) + phoenix which is just plain awesome

Pls dont troll..With 60 percent crit damage and many damage multipliers and some might dragons tooth crits for 5 k tops ..unless you talk about a case of 25might /25 vuln stacks,frenzy etc..you also talk about the most telegraphed burst in the game.
Also 2 of the class with good synergy can do carzy stuff.Its just that ele can do almost anything that makes 2 eles seem strong to you.At least use the actual numbers..
And why are everyone so offencive lately..So much hate in the pvp community of this game!

The reason the 100nade build kills so many is that people arent used to it yet.

Once you get net shotted, break it and dodge. The Engi is now a glass cannon with no burst cannon until cooldowns come back

Once people have seen it a few times, it will be as counterable as 100b

Visionary.5681:

The reason the 100nade build kills so many is that people arent used to it yet.

Once you get net shotted, break it and dodge. The Engi is now a glass cannon with no burst cannon until cooldowns come back

Once people have seen it a few times, it will be as counterable as 100b

Good teams actually are very hard to dodge as other players besides the engy will CC you. Also watch teldoo use his magnet pull to line people up. Yikes its effective.

ok but we cant ask for nerf everything thats effective and works..i mean the attitude now is when a build rises up people demand immediate nerfs..People should be patient and wait imo.

@Kostbabis

Sorry man, but that’s how it works for engineer.

If we have a competitive build it will usually get nerfed next.

Look for the soon to be nerf on AoE damage to nerf this build! ;D

If you want to know a spec that works in paids and has success. check out twitch tv. teldoo, heplays paids as engy well.
Far as i know hes the only engy who does so.

You mean this?

So now there are: Thief, Warrior, Elementalist, Mesmer (sort of) and Engineer instagib builds around, or did I miss some Ranger, Guardian and Necro technology?

Chaith.8256:

@OP, Yasha, that was me who you were facing in hotjoins yesterday afternoon, if you’re interested in finding more about that build, I just posted a guide yesterday.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Five-Gauge-s-100nade-Guide/first#post1272424

Thanks, it was awesome playing against you the other day. The first few times I got exploded I couldn’t figure out what had happened. I also loved how you could sit on the wall near treb out of danger and bomb it to death really quickly.

daydream.2938:

If you want to know a spec that works in paids and has success. check out twitch tv. teldoo, heplays paids as engy well.
Far as i know hes the only engy who does so.

Chaith AKA Five Gauge that posted in this thread is the top EU engineer and posted his build in this thread. He has to look no further.

DPS-Guards have a decent burst too actually. With virtue of justice, shield of wrath, zealot’s flame, Judge’s intervention and zealot’s defense. It’s about 7-12k burst in 2 seconds. (depends on armor etc.). Thieves are instant down to my experience.

So basically you activate virtue and shield of wrath (3s till dmg comes), then swapp weapons, activate zealot’s flame. Now you port with intervention to your foe, then hit zealot’s defense and throw the flame (zealot’s flame). Your flame will do about 2k, the plopping shield of wrath about 2k and the z’defense about 3k. + long burn duration. combined with some traits (+10% on burning foes) etc. You will get a pretty nice burst which is hard to avoid.

I don’t invented this build. I faced it in the first days of paid tournaments. The player (fredzw) gave me the build tough. He is one of the top players in EU just to mention

As a bunker Engineer; Five Gauge is fun to fight against. Engi v Engi fights tend to end up playing chess. Each person knows what the other is capable of and is always watching to see where the other moves next trying to fight the best time to take a blow in order to land a checkmate.
One of the benefits of being an Engineer is that we are underplayed; undervalued and misunderstood which allows our foes unexpected death for not understanding what we are capable of.

Good to see this. I was about to post asking the same question myself. Playing on a guardian with 23k hp 2.6k armor and getting dropped from full to 10% in the blink of eye was … let’s just say I wasn’t expecting it at all. Looks like I will have to learn what this is.

@Kintari

Well Engineer won’t hit you for 20k with this combo, I really doubt he did it one shot hehe.

This combo only one shot low hp and glass cannon. A 23k guardian with 2.6k armor shouldn’t go from 100% to 10% with one combo

16k damage on low armor is prolly a good number!

Kardiamond.6952:

@Kintari

Well Engineer won’t hit you for 20k with this combo, I really doubt he did it one shot hehe.

This combo only one shot low hp and glass cannon. A 23k guardian with 2.6k armor shouldn’t go from 100% to 10% with one combo

16k damage on low armor is prolly a good number!

OK, that’s good to know. I am pretty sure the engi was involved somehow, because I kept seeing these butt-puckering spikes over the course of several matches every time he was around. He was probably just coordinating with a friend or something, good for him. Still, this looks worth reading up on.

Well 16k is still a lot of damage If you get netshotted, get your shield ready to block! :P

Grats on resurrecting a 2-month old thread

I think the issue here is not as simple that Warriors do better DPS than Engineers in Rifle but rather a tanky melee character can do better DPS than a natural ranged character using a ranged weapon.

Sure, I’d also take an engineer w/ rifle over a warrior w/ rifle any day but the issue here is class balancing. If you thrive in melee yet you also have an option to thrive in ranged, there’s something wrong with class balancing.

IMO they should buff engineer Kits and Rifle skills. I like the engineer rifle skill right now but a little damage buff would help. Maybe fix Jump Shot’s animation and air time as well. Most importantly they should change the weapon name into Shotguns and not rifle, as it is a shotgun which should be used for mid~close ranged combat. I don’t even use Rifle Barrels because you need to be close to your target to deal maximum damage and to make hitting jump shot easier.

Dear moderators, could you please move this back to the spvp forum? I started this for all the players in spvp, including myself, who wanted to know more about this very spvp specific engineer build.

It is not a general engineer topic and has nothing to do with pve or wvw, it is specifically about a very powerful spvp build and how to counter it. Thank you.