Guild Wars 2

Why is Engineer highest dps.
What makes engineer the best dps class in the game? One simple thing might.
Might is extremely powerful at 25 stacks you get 35*25= 875 power and conditional damage. Time and time again power has been shown to be the most worthy investment. The real gem here is not power but the conditional damage.
While damage is doubled with every 916 power added

Bleed is doubled in just 42.5/0.05=850

Burn is doubled in 328/0.25=1300

Even if you reach 25 might stacks periodically the conditional damage will remain at the 25 stacks for the duration on which it was applied at 25 stacks. This becomes so important with bleed.

So if I role condition build full exotics. I get about 1227 conditional damage. If our party stacks 25 stacks of bleed that (42.5+1227*0.05) * 25=2596.25 damage per second
Most classed dps is about 1k with full berserker exotics.

Now let’s add 25 stacks of might (42.5+(1227+875) * 0.05)*25=3690 damage per second
This ticks at 147.6. The amazing thing is you don’t need to apply the 25 stack you can influence other party member stacks.

This is the just one aspect might. Even when you have max power at about 2.3k.
875 still increases damage by about 39%.

How can engineer get might?
The engineer with the help of elixirs, 2 traits and of course increase boon duration or might duration is the only class the can reach 20 stack of might reliably every time.
You can equip a total of 4 elixirs but 3 main ones but first the traits.

Enhanced performance and HGH these to traits can give you roughly 20 stacks without outside influence.

You will also need 100% boon duration or higher. 50% can be achieved with traits alone but you will have to use boon duration runes for another 40% then food will give you another 20%. Or you can just use might duration runes to get 55%.
So once you have all that you can start spamming elixirs.

The elixirs i recommend you always have on are Elixir H (heal), elixir B (Buff), Elixir C (cure or condition remove).

Before Fights
You want to spam or use just before you fight elixir H toss only.
Don’t uses your 6 heal because Enhanced performance only works in combat this is probably good thing though.

Use elixir B before combat but sometimes you want to hold on to until just before so you get swiftness or fury.

Same applies to elixir C if the mob is conditional damage based then I would hold that one.

In Fights
This is a different ball game because the more you interrupt you routine the less damage you do. So I would try sync up your tosses because they take longer. And use all utility elixirs off cool down.

Weapons
This is really up to you but as the title stats the highest dps weapon is by far the grenades.

The only weapon to come close is warrior great sword. But all melee weapons have a disadvantage because they norm involve a lot of down time.

But really as long as you can stack the might your dps will be naturally higher than the rest. Over all the class has the highest dps.

I can back this up with more maths.

Because the class that can stack the most might obviously deals the most damage, right?

Maths back me up in saying might is an overall worthless boon.

Engineer with 20 stacks of might deals same damage as warrior with barely 3-4. So, what happens if warrior gets 20 stacks from banners and shouts?

Me, engi with full rampager armor/cleric trinkets/rampager dual pistols, piercing shots trait + toughness→power trait
Warrior with full knight armor/berserker trinkets/berserker rifle, no special traits

We both have no boons. I’m dealing 2x less damage (including bleeding and double dmg from explosion) than this warrior
Add might to this, warrior would deal 3x more damage than me

Your dps from conditions is not that great, might will always give 4x more raw damage than burning damage, not talking about other conditions. And engineer raw damage scaling is poor with every weapon except for grenades

what in the world is going on in this thread?

First of all, yes might is fantastic. But engis are not the only ones that can stack it. Elems can trait for “fire skills give might stacks” and sigils for might on swap. And blast fire fields.
Guardians can get high might easy as well. Mesmers can.. but not ideally. Dont think I know any might mesmers.

1k dps is average? dude what? try 3-5k.

Might DOES give power and cond.
And shrapnel grenades is 3 15s bleeds, with no extra +duration. 12 stacks of bleed without even trying. extra duration or sharpshooter will average 15-18.
10 stacks of might average with hgh, without extra +boon. 350 cond.

Bleeds should not be thought of as dps. They should be per cast.
3 15s bleeds on every shrapnel every 4 seconds.
42.5+17.5/s=60/s for 15s.=900 x3=8100 over 15s.

Cond damage does not scale with vul. A grenade build will stack 24 vul in 6 seconds, increasing everyones direct damage on target by 24%.
Cond does not gain from quickness.

HGH is also fantastic as the THROW elixirs buff your allies with might as well. Although, generally they are spastic and refuse to stack up for it…
Conversely, stacking in fire fields for blast combo mights is good.

Aegael.6938:

Because the class that can stack the most might obviously deals the most damage, right?

Maths back me up in saying might is an overall worthless boon.

Yes might is op. look at this and it shows dps with all high end gear.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuAXA8GRArcRdEZ2UzAydXhkLXRhM19sUXlxT2ZfUVE

Orissa.1872:

Engineer with 20 stacks of might deals same damage as warrior with barely 3-4. So, what happens if warrior gets 20 stacks from banners and shouts?

Me, engi with full rampager armor/cleric trinkets/rampager dual pistols, piercing shots trait + toughness->power trait
Warrior with full knight armor/berserker trinkets/berserker rifle, no special traits

We both have no boons. I’m dealing 2x less damage (including bleeding and double dmg from explosion) than this warrior
Add might to this, warrior would deal 3x more damage than me

Your dps from conditions is not that great, might will always give 4x more raw damage than burning damage, not talking about other conditions. And engineer raw damage scaling is poor with every weapon except for grenades

One word you cant. The only way to stack might outside the great sword for the warrior is to use the bow and its adrenaline skill with banners. This is very time consuming.
The main point is that melee is not always viable. ranged weopons will always be. especially one that has an aoe like grenades.

The main problem is that warriors ranged weapons don’t scale well with power. greatsword is the only weapon really, that you can use to maximize your damage.
greatsword does beat every weapon the eng has except for the grenades.

Casia.4281:

what in the world is going on in this thread?

First of all, yes might is fantastic. But engis are not the only ones that can stack it. Elems can trait for “fire skills give might stacks” and sigils for might on swap. And blast fire fields.
Guardians can get high might easy as well. Mesmers can.. but not ideally. Dont think I know any might mesmers.

1k dps is average? dude what? try 3-5k.

Might DOES give power and cond.
And shrapnel grenades is 3 15s bleeds, with no extra +duration. 12 stacks of bleed without even trying. extra duration or sharpshooter will average 15-18.
10 stacks of might average with hgh, without extra +boon. 350 cond.

Bleeds should not be thought of as dps. They should be per cast.
3 15s bleeds on every shrapnel every 4 seconds.
42.5+17.5/s=60/s for 15s.=900 x3=8100 over 15s.

Cond damage does not scale with vul. A grenade build will stack 24 vul in 6 seconds, increasing everyone’s direct damage on target by 24%.
Cond does not gain from quickness.

HGH is also fantastic as the THROW elixirs buff your allies with might as well. Although, generally they are spastic and refuse to stack up for it…
Conversely, stacking in fire fields for blast combo mights is good.

The elementalist and Mesmer are not very reliable. elementalist in particular. the might stack lasts for 5 seconds ever with 90% boon duration you still only get it to 9 stacks.
it is extremely hard to stack. the eng on other hand does not need to do any damage to stack might just spam elixirs
the problem with the guardian is you can only stack condition through sigils.
Again they are not very reliable with about 10 stacks at the most up.

It doesn’t matter how many stacks of bleed i do. for all i care i could do 1 stack. the point is that your condition damage effect the parties stacks.
Conditional damage trumps everything in the game. bringing like a earth sigil into a fight can almost double your damage if you are in the right party.

I will admit the build is very extreme and requires the most concentration. that’s the point though

The TL;DR on Might Math™ is that you need somewhere between 5 and 10 stacks just to equal the stats you lose by being an Engineer.

Mell.4873:

Aegael.6938:

Because the class that can stack the most might obviously deals the most damage, right?

Maths back me up in saying might is an overall worthless boon.

Yes might is op. look at this and it shows dps with all high end gear.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuAXA8GRArcRdEZ2UzAydXhkLXRhM19sUXlxT2ZfUVE

where are you getting base damage from? oh, I see average rifle. Without 10% damage trait.
Attack speed for rifle and grenades is closer to .8.

While rifle AA doesn’t scale badly, its a terrible thing to compare when talking about MAX dps.
Grenades wins that hands down.

920 average weapon damage. .8s attack speed, 3 hits per. .5 per pve, and .55 every 4s+bleed on shrapnel. pve. .45 per pvp, on all.
Lets just talk about g1.
486 base damage(162×3) x1.25(.8s attack speed)=607 base dps.
2.01 damage increase from power. 1214 dps.
3.38 damage increase from power/crit/crit damage using your numbers.

2052dps.
+24% vul= 2544dps
Note, if you want max dps take +10% damage to explosions, not 20% cd. Cd gives you faster blind, chill, poison, none of which aid dps. 4 vs 5s shrapnel. Not nearly as much as 10% to every g1.
So another 10%. 2799 dps. +the shrapnel bleed. 9 stacks at 5s recast. (and barrage increases it a bit too.)

Casia.4281:

1k dps is average? dude what? try 3-5k.

prove it. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuAXA8GRArcRdEZ2UzAydXhkLXRhM19sUXlxT2ZfUVE
That my chart to tell me what classes do.

Xae.7204:

The TL;DR on Might Math™ is that you need somewhere between 5 and 10 stacks just to equal the stats you lose by being an Engineer.

lol this is not even long some guides go for pages and pages.
engineer most weapons do need to might to beat some classes ranged or melee. but the grenades and bombs are very op when compared.
The ranger has the best auto targeting ranged weopon. Only the grenades beat that.

Ah, I think in the chart you are only considering the auto-attack for each profession/weapon. In that case, the grenade kit auto-attack will probably do more than any other auto-attack, especially with burn/bleed on crits and might stacks.

Casia means that other professions usually do about 3-5k dps, on average, because average means over a period of time and using all available skills. That is really a better way to think about it, because no one would only use their auto-attack. Some builds hardly ever use their 1 attack—for example, an elementalist will cycle through all four attunements and maybe a conjure weapon as well and only use their auto-attack a couple of times.

already noted grenade.

but some more. ruby orb. Exquisite ruby jewels are 25 power, 15 prec, 3% crit damage.

Only talking about #1 skill is a large mistake. Many sets have significant portions of damage in other skills.
And of course traits, matter. grenades gain 80% of their damage with 25-30 in explosives.

Grenade barrage.
Barrage .375p per, .8as, x6 (8 with grenadier 27s cd with 10 in tools. in a standard 30/0/0/30/10 build.
.375*920*1843/2600=244.6×8 1956.4 x 3.38=6612.6*1.1=7274*1.24%=9020 per throw.
260 average dps increase over g1 spam. Huge burst gain obviously. That it stacks 8 stacks of vul instantly, also increases overall dps well.

Hrm, I see entrys on the spreadsheet I didnt at first. odd.

NevirSayDie.6235:

Ah, I think in the chart you are only considering the auto-attack for each profession/weapon. In that case, the grenade kit auto-attack will probably do more than any other auto-attack, especially with burn/bleed on crits and might stacks.

Casia means that other professions usually do about 3-5k dps, on average, because average means over a period of time and using all available skills. That is really a better way to think about it, because no one would only use their auto-attack. Some builds hardly ever use their 1 attack—for example, an elementalist will cycle through all four attunements and maybe a conjure weapon as well and only use their auto-attack a couple of times.

I do only consider basic attacks because the will almost always be highest dps move or because of no cool down be majority of your dps. There is only one move that can be considered that is skills that apply conditions.

The numbers that appear above you head does not really mean DPs. the most i can reach on my warrior is about 2k that’s with 25 stacks of might. it might be possible to peak at 2.5. the eng i have has peaks at about the same. but of coarse the engineer grenades are ranged.
The great sword on the warrior is the only class that is close and could possibly over take it in some instances.

NevirSayDie.6235:

Ah, I think in the chart you are only considering the auto-attack for each profession/weapon. In that case, the grenade kit auto-attack will probably do more than any other auto-attack, especially with burn/bleed on crits and might stacks.

Casia means that other professions usually do about 3-5k dps, on average, because average means over a period of time and using all available skills. That is really a better way to think about it, because no one would only use their auto-attack. Some builds hardly ever use their 1 attack—for example, an elementalist will cycle through all four attunements and maybe a conjure weapon as well and only use their auto-attack a couple of times.

The problem looking at the chart is he doesnt include, might, and traits. (and his attack speeds appear to be off.)

When I say, I do 5k dps with grenades, yeah I mean with grenadier, 10% buff, 24% vul which I stack in 6s, using shrapnel, using barrage, my 50% fury up time, 10-12 stacks of might by myself, and up to 25 in a party.

On my mesmer, 90% of my damage is phantasm, and confuse. spatial surge is barely on there really.

Casia.4281:

already noted grenade.

but some more. ruby orb. Exquisite ruby jewels are 25 power, 15 prec, 3% crit damage.

Only talking about #1 skill is a large mistake. Many sets have significant portions of damage in other skills.
And of course traits, matter. grenades gain 80% of their damage with 25-30 in explosives.

Grenade barrage.
Barrage .375p per, .8as, x6 (8 with grenadier 27s cd with 10 in tools. in a standard 30/0/0/30/10 build.
.375*920*1843/2600=244.6×8 1956.4 x 3.38=6612.6*1.1=7274*1.24%=9020 per throw.
260 average dps increase over g1 spam. Huge burst gain obviously. That it stacks 8 stacks of vul instantly, also increases overall dps well.

Hrm, I see entrys on the spreadsheet I didnt at first. odd.

I didnt use other runes becouse they where largy to expensive. the room to improve mostly is in crit chance the the dps will be doubled again if i can reach close to 100%
Sorry i updaded as i replied to people. becouse my online one was outdated.

Casia.4281:

NevirSayDie.6235:

Ah, I think in the chart you are only considering the auto-attack for each profession/weapon. In that case, the grenade kit auto-attack will probably do more than any other auto-attack, especially with burn/bleed on crits and might stacks.

Casia means that other professions usually do about 3-5k dps, on average, because average means over a period of time and using all available skills. That is really a better way to think about it, because no one would only use their auto-attack. Some builds hardly ever use their 1 attack—for example, an elementalist will cycle through all four attunements and maybe a conjure weapon as well and only use their auto-attack a couple of times.

The problem looking at the chart is he doesnt include, might, and traits. (and his attack speeds appear to be off.)

When I say, I do 5k dps with grenades, yeah I mean with grenadier, 10% buff, 24% vul which I stack in 6s, using shrapnel, using barrage, my 50% fury up time, 10-12 stacks of might by myself, and up to 25 in a party.

I worked out attack speed with a stop watch so its not 100 accurate. Trying to find real attack speed will take a lot long. time i do not want to invest.

Mell.4873:

Casia.4281:

NevirSayDie.6235:

Ah, I think in the chart you are only considering the auto-attack for each profession/weapon. In that case, the grenade kit auto-attack will probably do more than any other auto-attack, especially with burn/bleed on crits and might stacks.

Casia means that other professions usually do about 3-5k dps, on average, because average means over a period of time and using all available skills. That is really a better way to think about it, because no one would only use their auto-attack. Some builds hardly ever use their 1 attack—for example, an elementalist will cycle through all four attunements and maybe a conjure weapon as well and only use their auto-attack a couple of times.

The problem looking at the chart is he doesnt include, might, and traits. (and his attack speeds appear to be off.)

When I say, I do 5k dps with grenades, yeah I mean with grenadier, 10% buff, 24% vul which I stack in 6s, using shrapnel, using barrage, my 50% fury up time, 10-12 stacks of might by myself, and up to 25 in a party.

I worked out attack speed with a stop watch so its not 100 accurate. Trying to find real attack speed will take a lot long. time i do not want to invest.

Same. the best way to really lock it down is over a long period.
40seconds. count how many attacks you get off.
50, 44, or 40 Trying to lock down .8, .9, or 1s with latency, .2-.3 human reaction time will be hard. But 40s obvious. and the difference between 50, 44, and 40 obvious.

Casia.4281:

Mell.4873:

Casia.4281:

NevirSayDie.6235:

Ah, I think in the chart you are only considering the auto-attack for each profession/weapon. In that case, the grenade kit auto-attack will probably do more than any other auto-attack, especially with burn/bleed on crits and might stacks.

Casia means that other professions usually do about 3-5k dps, on average, because average means over a period of time and using all available skills. That is really a better way to think about it, because no one would only use their auto-attack. Some builds hardly ever use their 1 attack—for example, an elementalist will cycle through all four attunements and maybe a conjure weapon as well and only use their auto-attack a couple of times.

The problem looking at the chart is he doesnt include, might, and traits. (and his attack speeds appear to be off.)

When I say, I do 5k dps with grenades, yeah I mean with grenadier, 10% buff, 24% vul which I stack in 6s, using shrapnel, using barrage, my 50% fury up time, 10-12 stacks of might by myself, and up to 25 in a party.

I worked out attack speed with a stop watch so its not 100 accurate. Trying to find real attack speed will take a lot long. time i do not want to invest.

Same. the best way to really lock it down is over a long period.
40seconds. count how many attacks you get off.
50, 44, or 40 Trying to lock down .8, .9, or 1s with latency, .2-.3 human reaction time will be hard. But 40s obvious. and the difference between 50, 44, and 40 obvious.

And then the game lags and you skip a frame and attack. i like my method but i could always do that if there is a demand for accurate cast times and global cool downs.

The maths seem to go both ways… so I’ll just say this:

If it is true, and we ARE the best DPS class- I hope the nerf the bejeebus out of us ASAP. Hotpatch that crap in.

I’d rather have a harder time pushing out damage than be the dime a dozen class that thieves currently are.

Tolmos.8395:

The maths seem to go both ways… so I’ll just say this:

If it is true, and we ARE the best DPS class- I hope the nerf the bejeebus out of us ASAP. Hotpatch that crap in.

I’d rather have a harder time pushing out damage than be the dime a dozen class that thieves currently are.

That the point really we can achieve the highest dps with determination and carpel tunnel.

Tolmos.8395:

The maths seem to go both ways… so I’ll just say this:

If it is true, and we ARE the best DPS class- I hope the nerf the bejeebus out of us ASAP. Hotpatch that crap in.

I’d rather have a harder time pushing out damage than be the dime a dozen class that thieves currently are.

oh, we absolutely are.
Steel packed explosives, and grenadier are incredibly op.

H.G.H IS really good. but not really broken.

This conversation is still absurd in that someone can run, not dodge, out of the way of grenades. I do it all the time against other engi’s and other classes do it against me all day long. Warrior greatsword skills for the most part are targeted attacks that, given you are in melee range, they will hit and the only way to not get hit is to dodge.

I think everyone is too tripped up on the numbers and not the reality. I get hit by warriors because I find myself in melee range, I miss my targets with grenades because they move. DPS, no matter what numbers you want to plug in, is determined by what you can actually land, not by what it can do hypothetically on a stationary target. When I get homing grenades we can talk about my engi dps vs. a warriors dps.

Engineers are definately most feared by seige weapons, if they could run from us they would. If they could speak they would say we are OP.

There is so much partial math, fallacy math, and misleading equations that leave out necessary numbers from the situation, that is is sickening.

The absurd attempt to make such claims based on one skill per class says a lot the integrity if the idea and the OP.

Bleeds.4029:

This conversation is still absurd in that someone can run, not dodge, out of the way of grenades. I do it all the time against other engi’s and other classes do it against me all day long. Warrior greatsword skills for the most part are targeted attacks that, given you are in melee range, they will hit and the only way to not get hit is to dodge.

I think everyone is too tripped up on the numbers and not the reality. I get hit by warriors because I find myself in melee range, I miss my targets with grenades because they move. DPS, no matter what numbers you want to plug in, is determined by what you can actually land, not by what it can do hypothetically on a stationary target. When I get homing grenades we can talk about my engi dps vs. a warriors dps.

Engineers are definately most feared by seige weapons, if they could run from us they would. If they could speak they would say we are OP.

That’s why grenades have high dps is because they are extremely hard to use. i norm wont use in unless someone is downed then ill pop quickness and down the reviver’s.
You can use root turret and rifle to stop people do kill them.
basically grenades are a tool to be use when someone stand still to long.
warrior still has to be in melee range to fight the eng does not.

coglin.1496:

There is so much partial math, fallacy math, and misleading equations that leave out necessary numbers from the situation, that is is sickening.

The absurd attempt to make such claims based on one skill per class says a lot the integrity if the idea and the OP.

Then prove it wrong. All im saying is that if you are super skilled eng has the highest dps.

Mell, you would be better off to say that grenades have the highest damage coefficient in the game. Claiming that Engineers are the highest DPS class is misleading, because we are quite obviously far from it.

You pointed out that a warrior must be in melee range to fight while an engineer does not. But you are wrong because a rifle or even bow build warrior fights from range and will roflstomp a grenade engineer if played simply and correctly by staying on the move and by keeping the fight at the warriors maximum range. So again, we could multiply the damage of grenades by 10, 100 or 1000 and the DPS still wouldn’t matter if none of the hits land.

Also, grenades in my experience are best played in melee range. This is why I tend to run with more PVT gear than so many other people who go all out zerkers. Further, the full berzerker wearers are mostly out looking to gank noobs by suprise. My personal style is to run in close and drop my grenades at or near my feet so that I can reliably land hits by decreasing flight time and aiming confusion due to terrain; all this to increase my actual, realistic DPS.

Mell.4873:

coglin.1496:

There is so much partial math, fallacy math, and misleading equations that leave out necessary numbers from the situation, that is is sickening.

The absurd attempt to make such claims based on one skill per class says a lot the integrity if the idea and the OP.

Then prove it wrong. All im saying is that if you are super skilled eng has the highest dps.

Right. Just like I need to prove every other crazy person wrong, who claimed the world would end in 2000, or claim the world will end next week, or the world will end in 12-2012.

There have been 20+ damage threads on this sub forum alone that prove you wrong. 20+ more on every class sub forum, 40+ more on the general discussion and players helping player sub forum. Perhaps you should have read one of those threads before you made this fallacy of yours.

Prove it? Really? That is your reply? You based your hypothesis off one skill per weapon per class. That is a joke in itself.

Bleeds.4029:

Mell, you would be better off to say that grenades have the highest damage coefficient in the game. Claiming that Engineers are the highest DPS class is misleading, because we are quite obviously far from it.

You pointed out that a warrior must be in melee range to fight while an engineer does not. But you are wrong because a rifle or even bow build warrior fights from range and will roflstomp a grenade engineer if played simply and correctly by staying on the move and by keeping the fight at the warriors maximum range. So again, we could multiply the damage of grenades by 10, 100 or 1000 and the DPS still wouldn’t matter if none of the hits land.

Also, grenades in my experience are best played in melee range. This is why I tend to run with more PVT gear than so many other people who go all out zerkers. Further, the full berzerker wearers are mostly out looking to gank noobs by suprise. My personal style is to run in close and drop my grenades at or near my feet so that I can reliably land hits by decreasing flight time and aiming confusion due to terrain; all this to increase my actual, realistic DPS.

All i’m talking about is dps and the rifle and bow are pretty shocking. only good thing is bleed.
the games spvp is a pretty poor representation. you can almost run anything and make it work. Its pve and wvw where grenades shine.
If your fighting a warrior on the move don’t use grenades use rifle. then he comes to melee you switch back to grenades. grenades is a high dps weapon only to be used under certain conditions.

coglin.1496:

Mell.4873:

coglin.1496:

There is so much partial math, fallacy math, and misleading equations that leave out necessary numbers from the situation, that is is sickening.

The absurd attempt to make such claims based on one skill per class says a lot the integrity if the idea and the OP.

Then prove it wrong. All im saying is that if you are super skilled eng has the highest dps.

Right. Just like I need to prove every other crazy person wrong, who claimed the world would end in 2000, or claim the world will end next week, or the world will end in 12-2012.

There have been 20+ damage threads on this sub forum alone that prove you wrong. 20+ more on every class sub forum, 40+ more on the general discussion and players helping player sub forum. Perhaps you should have read one of those threads before you made this fallacy of yours.

Prove it? Really? That is your reply? You based your hypothesis off one skill per weapon per class. That is a joke in itself.

Okay then how can i prove my maths is correct without you doing the same maths and arriving at the same conclusion. You want to say im wrong and you don’t even know if im right.
Other thread do say engineer sucks but that because they don’t do maths and work out what our dps is. I have i know how much our basic attack does at lvl 80.
Compared to other classes we are pretty good. It just a mater of trying other classes and working out why.
i have all 8 charector slotz

I am not referring to the crying “engineer sucks” threads. I am referring to the threads with accurate math and comparisons to all skills as a whole and not just fallacy math that only compares one skill per weapon then makes a broad yet incorrect claim that it represents a professions damage as a whole.

Your doing a little thing refereed to where I am from as “Trying to out think common sense.”

I always thought engineers had the highest damage through grenades doing 1500 damage each grenade in volleys of 3 at a rate of 1 volley every 3/4th second, and could get perma fury to back it up.

I laugh everytime i see someone say “grenades are only for stationary targets”

Here I was coming looking for something along the lines of kit refinement and bolt discharge.

The best part about being an engi imo – is having a frigging reliable dps at 1500 range, while being able to close in instead and apply some sweet combo fields and insta 7 stacks of aoe confusion.
Once I’m done with my current goals I’m planning on creating a dps engi beast that can take a barrage of attacks coming at it.

@Mell – “If your fighting a warrior on the move don’t use grenades use rifle.”

Wait wait wait!! Engi’s are the highest DPS class with grenades! Don’t swap to a rifle! What the kitten are you talking about?? Use grenades dude, that’s where the DPS is, right? Just spam grenade 1, duh! Or are you saying that grenades don’t always work? Also, if grenades don’t always work, they couldn’t possibly be the highest DPS, right? Oh! If you are traited to use grenades, more than likely, you aren’t also traited for rifle, so then….your rifle isn’t the best choice of weapon either! Get it yet?

Quit talking out of your butt just because you figured out how to use the google box and you made something that you think can back up your theorycraft. Any one of us can make a google doc that shows that condition damage or precision (for example) is the best DPS, but that would be the same dummy “maths” that this is.

Understand also, nobody here needs you to tell us to swap to rifle for a ranged opponent. We know which weapon(s) to pick and when. The very simple fact that you need to swap at all, ever, is why saying that engineers are “the highest DPS class” is ignorant. A thief doesn’t need to swap to anything to roast you, nor does a warrior…but they also don’t burst people down using auto-attack; nor do we.

Each class got its own uses, it is smart to have all classes eventually to test which situation works best for you with each specific class.

If I wanted plain DPS, I’d pick warrior, plain and simple.

4.5k damage a volley is nothing to sneeze at, and 7-9k on burst every 30 seconds is REALLY nothing to sneeze at. Not to mention you can switch to and from this kit rapidly, applying snares/knockdowns as much as you like.

I love the engineer, best class in the game imo.

coglin.1496:

I am not referring to the crying “engineer sucks” threads. I am referring to the threads with accurate math and comparisons to all skills as a whole and not just fallacy math that only compares one skill per weapon then makes a broad yet incorrect claim that it represents a professions damage as a whole.

Your doing a little thing refereed to where I am from as “Trying to out think common sense.”

might it king. after playing all the classes i see now that stacking that might a huge difference. sure some builds can beat a might stacked rifle or pistol. but over all it makes a huge difference.
the reason i compare on skill per weapons is because the basic attack is majority of your damage the only influence you can bring that is significant is conditional damage other than that basic attack does 70%+.

Bleeds.4029:

@Mell – “If your fighting a warrior on the move don’t use grenades use rifle.”

Wait wait wait!! Engi’s are the highest DPS class with grenades! Don’t swap to a rifle! What the kitten are you talking about?? Use grenades dude, that’s where the DPS is, right? Just spam grenade 1, duh! Or are you saying that grenades don’t always work? Also, if grenades don’t always work, they couldn’t possibly be the highest DPS, right? Oh! If you are traited to use grenades, more than likely, you aren’t also traited for rifle, so then….your rifle isn’t the best choice of weapon either! Get it yet?

Quit talking out of your butt just because you figured out how to use the google box and you made something that you think can back up your theorycraft. Any one of us can make a google doc that shows that condition damage or precision (for example) is the best DPS, but that would be the same dummy “maths” that this is.

Understand also, nobody here needs youa to tell us to swap to rifle for a ranged opponent. We know which weapon(s) to pick and when. The very simple fact that you need to swap at all, ever, is why saying that engineers are “the highest DPS class” is ignorant. A thief doesn’t need to swap to anything to roast you, nor does a warrior…but they also don’t burst people down using auto-attack; nor do we.

I don’t even know where you going with this. If you and a warrior in melee use your grenades, your dps is higher.
If the warrior is running around use ranged or nothing at all use your rifle, your dps is still better.
The only class that might be able to beat use in a ranged combat fight while moving would be a range with max range longbow. but easy solution charge him.

Basically in almost every line up engineer is better.
melee = grenades.
ranged = rifle.
That is the hole point of this thread. By stacking might you are most likely going to have the highest dps. not always sometimes people have better gear or the boss or player has no condition remove. But you will most of the time have highest dps.

If you really believe that comparing weapons #1 skills and forgetting class mechanic as well is any other reasonable factors, you will never get it.

Ever heard of jobs that do comparisons or studies? Well we use things such as sample size for example. Your system of discovery is fundamentally flawed

Nice. I might give this a try.
Might stacking with Rifle / Pistol .. which is better?

Was thinking of using Sigil of Strenght for Might on Crit while the offhand pistol will get Accuracy for 5% Critical due to the lack of Precision in this build.

Gear wise – Berserker?
I’m guessing 2 x Hoelbrak 2 x Strength 2 x Fire rune would be your 60% Might Duration increase.

also, wouldn’t swapping to med kit count as using heal skill to trigger Enhanced Performance? This would mean you lower the downtime of might?

Thanks for the cool idea. Was always wondering why that Might seems underappreciated – but now I get it.
But what about the trait spread? HGH and Enhanced Performance would take 50 pts.
What happens to the remainder of the points?

Who cares the amount of skill it takes to make them even worth it is crazy

Mell, like your past threads on this subject, there is absolutely no demonstration of the validity of your claims in practice. If anyone is wondering, a previous identical thread by the op can be found here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Eng-highest-dps-class/first

Please post a video of you putting your theories into practice. In order of preference, I would like to see tPvP>sPvP>WvW. If you post spvp/tpvp videos, please post entire matches. If you post WvW footage, please make sure that the uninterrupted clips it consists of are at least each 4 minutes long, to prevent ‘creative’ editing.

If you lack the software/know how to record in game footage, please send me a PM.
Until then, this is fairly worthless drivel unsubstantiated by any practical evidence, as in your previous thread.

I’m sorry wha????!!! we’re the highest dps huh? Guess that explains why eles, warriors, and guardians can all three shot any Orr opponent while us engis are still blasting bombs or shooting pellets over and over ad nauseum.

Seriously take any engi without a kit, put them in the berserker gear and put them next to any weapon choice guard and warrior in Orr and see how much faster things die for the warrior and guard then they do for engis and THEN come back and tell me I’m wrong, because I can tell you right now, I’m not.

Anyone playing the game for five minutes will tell you this.

Actually, let’s do some math:

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/70080-guardian-effective-dps-tests/

Those are the DPS values for guardian weapons, plus the warrior’s Hundred Blades. With a Rabid set and 30/10/0/0/30, an Engineer hits for 450 on a single grenade crit and has a 52% crit rate (42% base, plus Scope). That means they hit for about 1100 direct damage on a volley.

Shrapnel Grenade bleeds for 20 seconds with the appropriate runes, and you tick for 95 damage. You get 3 stacks per Shrapnel Grenade so you get 60 ticks every 5s, or 12 ticks/second. Plus, Shrapnel gives you a 6% chance to get 20 ticks of bleed per grenade, so each volley adds 3.6 ticks. You also get 1.54 ticks of bleed from Sharpshooter per volley.

Lastly, you can add Grenade Barrage to that. The grenades hit for about 500 on a crit, eight times, so that’s about 2k net damage, or 93 damage/second overall. It also gives you an extra 5 hits to proc Sharpshooter and Shrapnel with, which is 8.57 extra ticks of bleed.

You throw one volley per second so:

1100 direct damage per second
12 × 95, or 1140 per second from Shrapnel Grenade
3.6 × 95, or 342 per second from Shrapnel
1.54 × 95, or 103.55 per second from Sharpshooter
93 + 37 per second from Grenade Barrage

That’s a grand total of 2815 damage/s, just from grenade spamming. That’s even higher than what you’ll hit for with a warrior GS.

Plus, you can use Kit Refinement with Medkit, Bomb Kit, and Toolkit to add even more damage since they’re all instant cast.

Medkit = 192 damage/sec
Bomb Kit = 539 damage/sec
Tool Kit = 142 damage/sec
Grenade Kit = 265 damage/sec

That’s almost 3900 damage/second. That’s completely ridiculous DPS far outclassing even the fabled warrior HB spam.

But yeah, the might thing is stupid lol.

The thing about grenades, and especially the Barrage toolkit skill, is that not all the grenades are always going to hit the target. This is extremely true for Barrage, as the AOE it covers is noteably larger than normal and the grenades a lot more spread out, so while you toss eight you will very rarely ever see more than five hit the same single target.

Also switching to a kit is instant, but it triggers a 1 second cooldown before you can remove it to reequip something else. And Kit Refinement’s attacks are sometimes situational, like the bomb kit’s bomb, and most of them trigger a noticeable cooldown of their own to prevent spamming (flamethrower, tool, and grenade kit have 10 second cooldowns, elixir has 20).

Blasting a player with grenades is imposible if he has a head over his shoulders and knows how to use it, of course, blasting a no-brainer is easy, just hit 1 like a dummy.

Grenades are pretty useless in real fight situations, and I’m talking about sPvP, in WvW have their utility, in PvE you can put on your rifle and the mob never is gonna reach you.

For me at least, grenades are pretty dead, yes, you do a lot of dmg with them, but hitting a dummy with the autoattack and posting the result to back it up, isn’t a way to prove youself.

LegoTechnic.5910:

The thing about grenades, and especially the Barrage toolkit skill, is that not all the grenades are always going to hit the target. This is extremely true for Barrage, as the AOE it covers is noteably larger than normal and the grenades a lot more spread out, so while you toss eight you will very rarely ever see more than five hit the same single target.

Also switching to a kit is instant, but it triggers a 1 second cooldown before you can remove it to reequip something else. And Kit Refinement’s attacks are sometimes situational, like the bomb kit’s bomb, and most of them trigger a noticeable cooldown of their own to prevent spamming (flamethrower, tool, and grenade kit have 10 second cooldowns, elixir has 20).

Swapping to multiple kits is instant. Equipping/unequipping a kit only triggers a CD on that kit itself, and you can swap to other kits without unequipping first. You can plink 6789 to trigger all your equip effects at once. Medkit and bomb are good as a result since they have no CD on the effect, you can throw a grenade, plink 678 to trigger the two explosions, then throw another volley of grenades.

I acknowledge your point on the grenades, but at point blank they do usually still hit. Even when occasionally one misses your DPS still remains stupidly high.

Neka.2403:

Blasting a player with grenades is imposible if he has a head over his shoulders and knows how to use it, of course, blasting a no-brainer is easy, just hit 1 like a dummy.

Grenades are pretty useless in real fight situations, and I’m talking about sPvP, in WvW have their utility, in PvE you can put on your rifle and the mob never is gonna reach you.

For me at least, grenades are pretty dead, yes, you do a lot of dmg with them, but hitting a dummy with the autoattack and posting the result to back it up, isn’t a way to prove youself.

Lead the target

Raijinn.9065:

Lead the target

Depending on range, leading a moving target that does actually bother to not conveniently run in a straight line (read: everyone in pvp) is impossible.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I acknowledge your point on the grenades, but at point blank they do usually still hit. Even when occasionally one misses your DPS still remains stupidly high.

When talking about melee range the base of comparison should be melee weapons, because every other class except the Ele will just switch to their melee set. In that context grenade dps is hardly “stupidly high”.

coglin.1496:

If you really believe that comparing weapons #1 skills and forgetting class mechanic as well is any other reasonable factors, you will never get it.

Ever heard of jobs that do comparisons or studies? Well we use things such as sample size for example. Your system of discovery is fundamentally flawed

It is extremely difficult to do another skill. I could definitely do it for skills that do increase your dps yes but most skills don’t add any damage. but still it is very difficult when assessing other skills.
Im trying to keep it as simple as possible even though as it is, Its still confusing.

PotatoOverdose.6583:

Mell, like your past threads on this subject, there is absolutely no demonstration of the validity of your claims in practice. If anyone is wondering, a previous identical thread by the op can be found here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Eng-highest-dps-class/first

Please post a video of you putting your theories into practice. In order of preference, I would like to see tPvP>sPvP>WvW. If you post spvp/tpvp videos, please post entire matches. If you post WvW footage, please make sure that the uninterrupted clips it consists of are at least each 4 minutes long, to prevent ‘creative’ editing.

If you lack the software/know how to record in game footage, please send me a PM.
Until then, this is fairly worthless drivel unsubstantiated by any practical evidence, as in your previous thread.

There isn’t really any theory its just maths. all I’m stating is that might stack make the hole engineer class have the highest dps over all. my previous thread just highlighted the grenades.
There is no need to post a video because you can check the maths. making a video to prove the maths is out of my video editing skill.

tigirius.9014:

I’m sorry wha????!!! we’re the highest dps huh? Guess that explains why eles, warriors, and guardians can all three shot any Orr opponent while us engis are still blasting bombs or shooting pellets over and over ad nauseum.

Seriously take any engi without a kit, put them in the berserker gear and put them next to any weapon choice guard and warrior in Orr and see how much faster things die for the warrior and guard then they do for engis and THEN come back and tell me I’m wrong, because I can tell you right now, I’m not.

Anyone playing the game for five minutes will tell you this.

Originally i was on your side. i have both lvl 80 ele and warrior. Then i did the maths and realized where better.

Everyone weapon swaps. No class uses 1 weapon, and only 1. Engineers are particularly designed to swap.
Any “durrr, I have to swap to rifle” complaints are absurd.
First, the topic was highest dps. DPS is inherently a pve topic. As in pvp, no you don’t ever have 30-50seconds of nonstop damage on target. Except maybe a golem, cannon.
Second, you can swap back and forth every second. Other professions have a 7/12?s timer, on swap.

In pvp. you can use cripples, chills, immobalize, knockdowns to CC your target, and unload with grenades. 1-10 seconds worth of raw damage on target, usually.
If you can’t land 100% of a grenade barrages grenades on a target you just overcharged, you need to practice. Alot.
And frankly, players often DO think they can go face to face with me. and try to out dps me. not going to happen. (esp if Im running elixir U. as timewarp, can outdps a non-hasted grenade)
TEAMS. I don’t know what game your playing. but if my target is trying to fight my mesmer friend, they are not dodging my grenades. Choke points in wvw. Lords rooms, doors, broken walls, ramps.