Guild Wars 2

blurps.2340:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I acknowledge your point on the grenades, but at point blank they do usually still hit. Even when occasionally one misses your DPS still remains stupidly high.

When talking about melee range the base of comparison should be melee weapons, because every other class except the Ele will just switch to their melee set. In that context grenade dps is hardly “stupidly high”.

If you checked the thread I linked, you’d see that warrior and guardian GS are only at 2.3k/s, and those are melee weapons. There is the fact that those weapons will be stronger in PvE (because you can go full zerkers) and engineer will be weaker (since you lose the stats from your weapon) but the numbers for engineer are still very good.

wintermute.4096:

Raijinn.9065:

Lead the target

Depending on range, leading a moving target that does actually bother to not conveniently run in a straight line (read: everyone in pvp) is impossible.

I noticed you said depending on range, and range does mean everything

BUT

This is where you apply your own playstyle. i can hit any moving target I need to and it doesn’t matter how you are moving. With the way I play I just stay at the right distance and chase you down, you will eat every grenade I throw your way. And if you bother to chase me you will get it even worse. Just because you have the capability doesn’t mean you have to use them like a ranger

Raijinn.9065:

wintermute.4096:

Raijinn.9065:

Lead the target

Depending on range, leading a moving target that does actually bother to not conveniently run in a straight line (read: everyone in pvp) is impossible.

I noticed you said depending on range, and range does mean everything

BUT

This is where you apply your own playstyle. i can hit any moving target I need to and it doesn’t matter how you are moving. With the way I play I just stay at the right distance and chase you down, you will eat every grenade I throw your way. And if you bother to chase me you will get it even worse. Just because you have the capability doesn’t mean you have to use them like a ranger

Got a vid showing how you do this to help others get better at it?

Mell, Casia, and all of the other people citing “maths,” please post a video of your maths in action (as I and others have already requested), that obeys my criteria established in my previous post:

“In order of preference, I would like to see tPvP>sPvP>WvW. If you post spvp/tpvp videos, please post entire matches. If you post WvW footage, please make sure that the uninterrupted clips it consists of are at least each 4 minutes long, to prevent ‘creative’ editing.”

Again, I would really, really like to see your “maths” in action. Really. Post a video.

Aberrant.6749:

Raijinn.9065:

wintermute.4096:

Raijinn.9065:

Lead the target

Depending on range, leading a moving target that does actually bother to not conveniently run in a straight line (read: everyone in pvp) is impossible.

I noticed you said depending on range, and range does mean everything

BUT

This is where you apply your own playstyle. i can hit any moving target I need to and it doesn’t matter how you are moving. With the way I play I just stay at the right distance and chase you down, you will eat every grenade I throw your way. And if you bother to chase me you will get it even worse. Just because you have the capability doesn’t mean you have to use them like a ranger

Got a vid showing how you do this to help others get better at it?

I actually wouldn’t mind doing this at all. I had plans of making videos in the future so I will s ee what I can do for you. It’s really interesting because I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone in pvp use them this way.

PotatoOverdose.6583:

Mell, Casia, and all of the other people citing “maths,” please post a video of your maths in action (as I and others have already requested), that obeys my criteria established in my previous post:

“In order of preference, I would like to see tPvP>sPvP>WvW. If you post spvp/tpvp videos, please post entire matches. If you post WvW footage, please make sure that the uninterrupted clips it consists of are at least each 4 minutes long, to prevent ‘creative’ editing.”

Again, I would really, really like to see your “maths” in action. Really. Post a video.

Fine fine here is a video. I could do more and explaining the maths step by step. Ill just see what you think of this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72_f08LNmuw&feature=youtu.be
Sorry about the lag. i think the record frame rate is to low or something.

Engineer, regardless of build or weapon choice is not the highest dmg per second class in game…It has high support capability/survivability and good Pure power combo attacks with rifle/ condition spec abilities with pistol…its the most jack of all trades class available…while not really excelling at any.

Also u can get stupid high Might stacks with the Flame thrower trait+ elixir trait…and yet your dmg is still pretty dang low…

I tried this in the mists, and I can only get up to ~16 stacks of might at a time. I got 110% boon duration. Also, the time it takes to “prepare” for the 25 stacks of might is a bit time consuming =/

Noone has better dps than engineer with granades. EOT

I frequently stomp players in sPvP with grenades. The trick is to either a) get in melee range (they can’t evade at this point), or b) use a root / knockdown before using freeze grenade to ensure every grenade hits from thereon out. Considering the rifle has a 10s cooldown on a 2.5s root, and a 15s cooldown on a 2s knockdown, I think landing grenades is trivial at this point – especially if, the moment you get rooted, you’re also eating a blunderbuss, jump shot, and grenade barrage to the face. It puts players on the run, which makes them predictable.

MistyMountains.3751:

Engineer, regardless of build or weapon choice is not the highest dmg per second class in game…It has high support capability/survivability and good Pure power combo attacks with rifle/ condition spec abilities with pistol…its the most jack of all trades class available…while not really excelling at any.

Also u can get stupid high Might stacks with the Flame thrower trait+ elixir trait…and yet your dmg is still pretty dang low…

That’s what i thought until i did the maths. The flamethrower is just a bad weapon i would not use it.
Bombs and Grenades easily have the highest dps. In terms of ranged it would be basically the rifle.

This data does not take into account the incessant misses, the long drawn out timers between attacks (pistols should not take as long as rifles, even thieves suffer because of this) and does not take into account the timer before bombs explode as well as the time it takes for grenades to hit their target as well as the problems facing engis where an enemy can simply step to the side to “dodge” a grenade because they aren’t a tab target ability.

So while it’s nice to dream that every attack we use will hit and sure it does seem we do alot of damage against the test statues in the town, that’s not the reality of the situation when in a real fight even in pve.

tigirius.9014:

This data does not take into account the incessant misses, the long drawn out timers between attacks (pistols should not take as long as rifles, even thieves suffer because of this) and does not take into account the timer before bombs explode as well as the time it takes for grenades to hit their target as well as the problems facing engis where an enemy can simply step to the side to “dodge” a grenade because they aren’t a tab target ability.

So while it’s nice to dream that every attack we use will hit and sure it does seem we do alot of damage against the test statues in the town, that’s not the reality of the situation when in a real fight even in pve.

Let me ask you how i might account for misses or range or bomb timer.
These are irrelevant because a sword can miss so can a rifle. every weapon in the game can miss the target.
You’re point is not very logical. DO NOT USE GRENADES ON PEOPLE MOVING. simple.
I almost exclusively us it on downed people or melee targets. I am most likely to hit them.

The pistol thing is completely provable. The pistol and rifle on the engineer have the same cast time on there auto. test it yourself there may be a 0.05 second difference in the time i have given you but still they are the same.

Over all these results are guide lines not proof. i mean you gear is not the same and you are not always spamming auto attacks. so things can change.

Maybe grenade Engineers are not the top damage dealers in PvE but they are among the top ones.

Grenade deals 163 base damage per grenade, with the [Grenadier] trait you throw 3 of them, so it’s 489 base damage. You can use Grenade approximately every second, so it’s 489 base DPS.
For comparison the Guardian’s Greatsword chain deals in total 1035 base damage. I’ve read that one chain takes 2.1 seconds to complete so it would be 493 base DPS.

Iirc Kit weapon damage is 9XX while Greatsword weapon damage is 1000+ so the gap is a little bit bigger but still that very good for an attack that can be used from up to 1500 range.

For comparison Long Range Shot (Ranger’s Longbow auto attack) deals 317 base damage from max range and can be used every 1.25 seconds so it’s 253,6 base DPS.

Mell.4873:

PotatoOverdose.6583:

Mell, Casia, and all of the other people citing “maths,” please post a video of your maths in action (as I and others have already requested), that obeys my criteria established in my previous post:

“In order of preference, I would like to see tPvP>sPvP>WvW. If you post spvp/tpvp videos, please post entire matches. If you post WvW footage, please make sure that the uninterrupted clips it consists of are at least each 4 minutes long, to prevent ‘creative’ editing.”

Again, I would really, really like to see your “maths” in action. Really. Post a video.

Fine fine here is a video. I could do more and explaining the maths step by step. Ill just see what you think of this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72_f08LNmuw&feature=youtu.be
Sorry about the lag. i think the record frame rate is to low or something.

A good video, solid engineer play in a team environment. The lag is barely noticeable. But here’s the thing. Most of your fights, you don’t do huge numbers. You do reasonable sustained dps. But that DPS is nowhere near top tier for pvp. It takes you (along with teammates) over 30 seconds on average to kill a single player.

There are TONS of videos of thieves and mesmers downing and killing players in less than 10 seconds, and doing so repeatedly. Even setting that aside due to external factors, your damage isn’t all that high. Decent, to be sure, but not near the highest damage possible by any number of glass cannon builds.

Which was and is my point. Engineers can do good damage. But a simple search of guildwars 2 thief or mesmer pvp videos on youtube will deliver videos with far more dps and far quicker kills. And that’s OK. It’s not a reflection on your skill as an engineer. There are classes that can reasonably and practically apply much more DPS than an engineer. Engineers, have far more CC and utility than those classes, we don’t have to be the top damage dealer (and we usually aren’t, outside of pve).

Mell.4873:

tigirius.9014:

This data does not take into account the incessant misses, the long drawn out timers between attacks (pistols should not take as long as rifles, even thieves suffer because of this) and does not take into account the timer before bombs explode as well as the time it takes for grenades to hit their target as well as the problems facing engis where an enemy can simply step to the side to “dodge” a grenade because they aren’t a tab target ability.

So while it’s nice to dream that every attack we use will hit and sure it does seem we do alot of damage against the test statues in the town, that’s not the reality of the situation when in a real fight even in pve.

Let me ask you how i might account for misses or range or bomb timer.
These are irrelevant because a sword can miss so can a rifle. every weapon in the game can miss the target.
You’re point is not very logical. DO NOT USE GRENADES ON PEOPLE MOVING. simple.
I almost exclusively us it on downed people or melee targets. I am most likely to hit them.

The pistol thing is completely provable. The pistol and rifle on the engineer have the same cast time on there auto. test it yourself there may be a 0.05 second difference in the time i have given you but still they are the same.

Over all these results are guide lines not proof. i mean you gear is not the same and you are not always spamming auto attacks. so things can change.

No actually what I’m talking about is a bug that they have allowed to stay in the game since BWE3 where kits like grenades, FT, EG all miss incessently at the slightest movement of the enemy. It happens in pve all the time. It’s one of the reasons people are rerolling warriors en masse because warriors seem to be immune to the nerfhammer.

There are holes in the way the class functions.

And no, mathematically 1.0 and 0.5 make a huge difference in dps, any mathematician will tell you this. That’s why the data is skewed.

There are no DPS class bro…
This combat system is focused on Strategies based on Damage/Control/Support.

You need to deal “damage” just like every other class.
You need to stay in “Control” just like every other class.
You need to “Support” yourself/others just like every other class.

It boils down to playstyle prefferences.
If only thing you focus on is DPS… Yeah, You’ll be in trouble.

DreamyAbaddon.3265:

There are no DPS class bro…
This combat system is focused on Strategies based on Damage/Control/Support.

You need to deal “damage” just like every other class.
You need to stay in “Control” just like every other class.
You need to “Support” yourself/others just like every other class.

It boils down to playstyle prefferences.
If only thing you focus on is DPS… Yeah, You’ll be in trouble.

Then most of the warrior are in trouble~~

Krisstina.7238:

DreamyAbaddon.3265:

There are no DPS class bro…
This combat system is focused on Strategies based on Damage/Control/Support.

You need to deal “damage” just like every other class.
You need to stay in “Control” just like every other class.
You need to “Support” yourself/others just like every other class.

It boils down to playstyle prefferences.
If only thing you focus on is DPS… Yeah, You’ll be in trouble.

Then most of the warrior are in trouble~~

Not Really. I Play Warrior too…
Warriors have amazing meele and ranged weapon skills.
Its just the matter of how you enjoy Damage/Control/Support.
Believe me. I rarely take much damage as Warrior when I evade and dodge away attks using meele and ranged weapons.

We Warriors got lots of good Control/Support skills as well as Damage just as an Engineer does. It’s how well u play and setup your skills. Its how well you use them that effects the outcome of who wins or who loses.

i done tons of sPvP and I love them.

Anyone noticed lack of abilities that can evade melee’s dodge/block?
Seems to me that using their blocking abilities meeles can reduce range between therefore- simply crush us .

Angewaire.6319:

Anyone noticed lack of abilities that can evade melee’s dodge/block?
Seems to me that using their blocking abilities meeles can reduce range between therefore- simply crush us .

I dont understand your question?
Are you saying Engineer lacks Meele skills?
Or are you saying Engineer lacks from fighting meele classes?

Enginners have tons of skills to fight both meele and ranged classes if your question was (B). As for (A), I only use Tool Kit for Meele. Dont know and dont think we have another meele kit. But I’ll find out sooner or later =)

I tried OP’s Might build. I couldn’t get it to dps anywhere near as well as a proper Static Discharge build. It’s going to be pretty hard to out-dps a 3-4k nuke every 8 seconds that’s off the global cooldown. /2 cents

PotatoOverdose.6583:

Mell.4873:

PotatoOverdose.6583:

Mell, Casia, and all of the other people citing “maths,” please post a video of your maths in action (as I and others have already requested), that obeys my criteria established in my previous post:

“In order of preference, I would like to see tPvP>sPvP>WvW. If you post spvp/tpvp videos, please post entire matches. If you post WvW footage, please make sure that the uninterrupted clips it consists of are at least each 4 minutes long, to prevent ‘creative’ editing.”

Again, I would really, really like to see your “maths” in action. Really. Post a video.

Fine fine here is a video. I could do more and explaining the maths step by step. Ill just see what you think of this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72_f08LNmuw&feature=youtu.be
Sorry about the lag. i think the record frame rate is to low or something.

A good video, solid engineer play in a team environment. The lag is barely noticeable. But here’s the thing. Most of your fights, you don’t do huge numbers. You do reasonable sustained dps. But that DPS is nowhere near top tier for pvp. It takes you (along with teammates) over 30 seconds on average to kill a single player.

There are TONS of videos of thieves and mesmers downing and killing players in less than 10 seconds, and doing so repeatedly. Even setting that aside due to external factors, your damage isn’t all that high. Decent, to be sure, but not near the highest damage possible by any number of glass cannon builds.

Which was and is my point. Engineers can do good damage. But a simple search of guildwars 2 thief or mesmer pvp videos on youtube will deliver videos with far more dps and far quicker kills. And that’s OK. It’s not a reflection on your skill as an engineer. There are classes that can reasonably and practically apply much more DPS than an engineer. Engineers, have far more CC and utility than those classes, we don’t have to be the top damage dealer (and we usually aren’t, outside of pve).

classes can deal more damage than us but it is no sustained. eng can constantly do there amazing dps. most warriors use the great sword hundred blades to down people with a combination of roots. Mesmer can just over whelm people with clones. it may seem high dps but there is not.
basically don’t use grenades in spvp. they are pretty bad i would use turrets and static as my build.

Krisstina.7238:

DreamyAbaddon.3265:

There are no DPS class bro…
This combat system is focused on Strategies based on Damage/Control/Support.

You need to deal “damage” just like every other class.
You need to stay in “Control” just like every other class.
You need to “Support” yourself/others just like every other class.

It boils down to playstyle prefferences.
If only thing you focus on is DPS… Yeah, You’ll be in trouble.

Then most of the warrior are in trouble~~

That is entirely true but if your doing enough damage they who cares. Engineer has a lot of control and buffs for others to use and most have low cool downs.
engineer can constantly stack vigor swiftness. he can apply stealth or stabilize on stunned allies. He can turn in to a tank for about 30 seconds.
i find he has more options and lower cool downs than most other classes.

Here’s your huge numbers, I was down in seconds.

Mell.4873:

Krisstina.7238:

DreamyAbaddon.3265:

There are no DPS class bro…
This combat system is focused on Strategies based on Damage/Control/Support.

You need to deal “damage” just like every other class.
You need to stay in “Control” just like every other class.
You need to “Support” yourself/others just like every other class.

It boils down to playstyle prefferences.
If only thing you focus on is DPS… Yeah, You’ll be in trouble.

Then most of the warrior are in trouble~~

That is entirely true but if your doing enough damage they who cares. Engineer has a lot of control and buffs for others to use and most have low cool downs.
engineer can constantly stack vigor swiftness. he can apply stealth or stabilize on stunned allies. He can turn in to a tank for about 30 seconds.
i find he has more options and lower cool downs than most other classes.

Your not suppose to Tank with any class… But I can keep Agro with any class without taking much hit. There are times I dont even take damage when I have full agro. It’s just the matter of staying in “Control” with ur Control skills while on the Move+Dodge and “Supporting” yourself with Swiftness and such as you mentioned while dealing “Damage”.

To be honest, I can do this with any of my 5 classes just as effectivly as an Engineer can. Really, it’s all Playstyle prefferences in “How” you enjoy doing Damage/Control/Support.

I enjoy doing it with: Engineer, Elementalist, Warrior, Ranger, and Mesmer.

I pretty much can Keep agro with multiple enemies and even champions with No-to-Crap armor/weapons. All I need is the Weapon Skills and Utility Skills and I’m all set.

I really do enjoy Engineer though. It’s super fun if you know how to play it right. =)

EDIT: It’s not your job to Babysitt others. If your team mate cannot keep “Control” and “Support” themselves, they become a liability, not an asset to the Party.

Not saying “Dont help your team out”, just saying "Make sure you’re not babysitting those who dont understand those Mechanics. Instead, helping them learn it would be a better way to go so you and your team can coordinate Control/Support while dealing damage as a team effectivly.’

im sorry what ? 1500 dmg its high ? or I miss something

After skimming through all the posts, the only things clearly conclusive are:

1. Grenades are too good and make all the other engi-weapon-kits sad
-Using it for melee range is smart, but counter-intuitive to the concept and makes other kits look bad/stupid.
-IMO, they should revert the projectile-speed nerf, and either A) make a range limiter force you to always throw it at 450+ distance, or B ) make its damage scale by distance.
(If A, that would allow ANet to make it possible to throw bombs up to 450 as a mirror of grenades. Sticking a lit-bomb at your feet is the most stupid looking mechanic ever…)

2. This idea is too complicated to explain, and thus not fit for standard use
Guides that are several pages long don’t make your wall-of-text any better.

If you can’t simplify it enough for common folks to understand, then there’s really no point.

Guides are made to help newbies and people looking for new ideas.
Veterans and other so-called “experienced” people will stop looking at guides and do what works from their own experimenting.

If you expect people to soak in every word like you’re the new Jesus Christ or something, then you’re a bad guide-writer.

2b. If you really want to prove you have the highest DPS, make a video show it in action.
No one gives a —-- about raw math. Sad but true way of the world. >_>

DreamOfACure.4382:

2. This idea is too complicated to explain, and thus not fit for standard use

The idea is extremely simple, and not particularly new either. Hgh+ elixirs + toss elizirs+boon duration= lots of might stacking. Or just juggernaut from flamethrower. Or both.

Lots of might+Conditions (particularly burning) = lots of damage. Since engineers have at least 5 excellent ways to apply burning, this is in fact a pretty solid concept/build. I disagree with the op when he says its the highest damage out there, but it is good damage.

Might stacking on condition builds has become quite popular over the past few weeks, what with the old might stacking power builds getting more and more nerfed/bugged with each balance patch (was never a fan of them myself). 15 stacks of might + burning is solid and practical.