Guild Wars 2

This post is light hearted, including the ending, so please do not project your own feelings in guessing what i meant. If i want to specify some particular emotion i will include an emoticon for those that need things explained to them. I do not post alot, and i never reply to a thread once made (Except this one time, when i was drunk and disorderly), so have fun with it.

Somewhere, sometime someone at an Arena net meeting table said “Hey, lets make a utility support class, and i know just the game we can pull it from”, Everyone at the table already buzzed on energy drinks and designer coffee all giggled in unison bobbing there heads up and down. They all turned to “Fred”, Fred looked up from his comic book and said…“Huh? What?”. The Engineer was born.

Now Fred did a decent job on the PVE aspect of the Engineer, not great but the Engineer can usually find a group if they respec for healing and support. In SPVP the stock Engineer is fine, again, in the middle of the pack or higher. It is when we want to be “something else”, in accordance with the number of things we have available….that problems begin to show. This is also very evident in Wv3 where the Engineer should be a nasty little devil, instead we are an annoyance to be dealt with and dropped quickly so the important targets can be dps’d down, even with tons of toughness.

Alot of talented folks on these forums have ran the numbers as best they can and hundreds of mediocre and average builds infest the internet tubes, nothing stands out, not even the vaunted grenadier build or bunker build. We just had 30 bullet points applied to the engineer in a recent patch, all i can type about that is….wtf over.

My point is this, There are far, far more talented folks griping (with good reason) on this forum about the lousy developer performance in regards to the Engineer and other things, my ideas aside some of these other ideas would be welcome fixes verse the crap we have now. That isnt a callout, its a very simple fact.

With 22 years and change being retired military, 3 wars, 4 years of combat, travel to and support of over 25 countries that i can remember offhand during that time. I have accumulated alot of wisdom and imagination because of my experiences, what developer among Anet has the imagination, common sense, creativity, personel management skills or leadership that comes with that type of life experience? Without even looking at a resume i doubt any Anet employee has. That also isnt a callout, its a fact.

That is the rub though isnt it? People with no life experience and limited interaction or travel or usable wisdom, consider themselves “Worldmakers”. No wonder the Engineer class is so ate up. Start over devs, suck up that pride and tell the lawyers to take a long break and use some of the ideas the good folks on the Engy forum have submitted or ask me to help, it doesnt matter, anything will be better than what we have now.

I think the devs simply thought taking a class from Asherons Call 2 and adding stuff to it would be neato, well, it didnt work Anet, should have left it alone and just ported it directly, it might have worked out better, or were there license issues? Grin.

Kudos to the art and sound team though, you guys rock. Seriously.

Graill.8596:

With 22 years and change being retired military, 3 wars, 4 years of combat, travel to and support of over 25 countries that i can remember offhand during that time. I have accumulated alot of wisdom and imagination because of my experiences, what developer among Anet has the imagination, common sense, creativity, personel management skills or leadership that comes with that type of life experience? Without even looking at a resume i doubt any Anet employee has. That also isnt a callout, its a fact.

I already disagreed with the majority of your post. But this part right here conveys the exact opposite of the message you’re trying to deliver.

You should send me an in-game message if you want to talk about what you’re doing wrong.

Sounds like OP needs more Tankcat… http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0pfO5s9pi0c

The irony of the OP is that with all his “World Experience” and feigned experience / imagination, he hasn’t been able to make it work.

The fact is there are plenty of people who are amazing at engineer. It’s not the class. It’s you that doesn’t get it.

Pick a different class. And never bring your “military experience” into a gaming forum. It’s meaningless.

I don’t think that’s the kind of play that the OP has in mind. While Nisha’s humor, editing, and personality are highly entertaining and admirable, I don’t really think that build is very top notch (again, let me reiterate that I think Nisha is awesome and I wish I was his friend because I would love playing in WvW with him).

I genuinely am curious as to what kind of builds OP is playing. Engineer is probably one of the most balanced classes that exist in the game right now. I think they’re also one of the more difficult classes to play well. It’s laughable that someone would come here, claim to be more adept at game development because of military experience, and then also claim that Engineer needs a complete rework.

The class needs tweaks and bug fixes, like every other class in the game. But it is very viable in tPvP, hot-join/solo queue sPvP, WvW solo roaming, and WvW group play. To say it more clearly: you’re doing it wrong.

I wasn’t kidding about wanting you to send me a tell in-game (or a forum PM). I would love to tell you what’s good and whats’ bad and help you improve.

I disagree with the OP majorly.
Engineer has always been my dream class to play before GW2’s Release.
And Currently now, I’m doing extremely well in PvP and PvE.

The Utility Kits and skills are very well designed.
Engineers, just like any other class, has really good skills for
Damage/Control/Support

I Really love how the Kits and Weapons play out.
I have tons of different strategies with it. Heck, I can even solo Group Events and Solo Champions myself with it without a problem.

It’s one of my most favorite class of all times actually.
This is definantly my type of class. Even was able to kill a Mesmer and Warrior in PvP!

The only problem I have with Engineer is the turrets have low Defense and health.
ArenaNet, Please increase the defense and health on turrets!! =D

Yesterday I won a 3v1 and a 4v1 against level 80 toons in wvw. In the 3v1 I had two rifle engineers from the same guild trying to kill me. This is something I do regularly on my engie and I cannot pull stunts like that on my mesmer, even tho it hits much harder.

Now I’m not denying the class has some issues, mainly to do with kit weapon damage and sigils, but it’s surely one of the better done and more versatile classes in the game in my view.

ok now tell me engi is bad after that video xD

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

Sounds like OP needs more Tankcat… http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0pfO5s9pi0c

The irony of the OP is that with all his “World Experience” and feigned experience / imagination, he hasn’t been able to make it work.

The fact is there are plenty of people who are amazing at engineer. It’s not the class. It’s you that doesn’t get it.

Pick a different class. And never bring your “military experience” into a gaming forum. It’s meaningless.

Tried tankcat for pve purposes was NOT impressed really. Spent most of my time trying not to die against orrians. sigh.

OP has a point. In fact he has lots of good points.

You look at how much it takes to kill something in the game on an engi with all these supposedly deadly weapons and kits and go, wth? like 14-17 grenades per kill (what are they really fire crackers?) or 10-13 bullets from each pistol encounter. The bullet thing is even worse for the thief then it is for us, can you imagine firing 30 bullets at a zombie in the walking dead, what that might be like?

I wasn’t impressed with Tankcat either. It’s a basic bunker build with lots of invuln. It really doesn’t have much else going for it besides the fact that…its a bunker build. You can keep a couple idiots on your tail while they blow cooldowns on you. Too bad at any moment they can decide to not be stupid and walk away from you, since you really aren’t worth chasing. I mean, the build has one good big damage ability: The prybar.

I dont think we need a “total rework”. We just need a ton of bug fixes and usability changes. The core concept is solid though. The implementation is bug ridden and kinda lack luster atm.

so in those 22 years in the military, how many games did you make? how many million copies did you ship? how many “worlds” did you build?

None?

Well, maybe the guys with 22 years experience doing that should stick to doing that and you should stick to being military. I know which I would rather have commanding troops and which I would rather have making my games thank you.

Ricky Rouse.1583:

I wasn’t impressed with Tankcat either. It’s a basic bunker build with lots of invuln. It really doesn’t have much else going for it besides the fact that…its a bunker build. You can keep a couple idiots on your tail while they blow cooldowns on you. Too bad at any moment they can decide to not be stupid and walk away from you, since you really aren’t worth chasing. I mean, the build has one good big damage ability: The prybar.

I’m still working with it, but changing the Elixir S with Elixir U has already increased my killing power, and I’m just theorizing with swaps.

Also gear changes would up the killing power. The problem comes from people thinking statically. The “one build to rule them all” mindset has got to go. You have to be willing to swap gear sets and/or swap utilities to get differernt jobs done.

Any engineer that doesn’t swap out utilities situationaly, is doing it wrong.

Someone said that engineer was last class they made so thats why its not “perfect”. But it maybe not true, take it as a rumor. I think its an amazing class, maybe 30 points in traits to get 50% better endurance while ranger has it for 5 is a bit dull (I hope I can use that word in this context) and I really don’t like turrets because they are just not my thing, at least so far. Otherwise I love this class. Original, you can have a lot of builds, experiment with it, its just so fun. Way more than I had with my mesmer, which is also lvl 80 but I dont play him anymore since I got my engi. <3

Ricky Rouse.1583:

I wasn’t impressed with Tankcat either. It’s a basic bunker build with lots of invuln. It really doesn’t have much else going for it besides the fact that…its a bunker build. You can keep a couple idiots on your tail while they blow cooldowns on you. Too bad at any moment they can decide to not be stupid and walk away from you, since you really aren’t worth chasing. I mean, the build has one good big damage ability: The prybar.

What would you want bunker build to be if being bunker is not enough? Dont understand what else should it have going for it… It would be silly if you are bunker and cannon at the same time wouldnt it? Bunker builds are really useful.
Btw, i play my engi as dmg dealer and i deal impresive dmg with it, and still have decent surviability with 2 knocks, almost non stop speed if i want and other cc…

I am now in process of trying other classes but engi is for now my absolute favorite. I’m not saying best, but i have most fun with it

You can have a whole company filled with talented individuals, but nothing could ever get done. Care to guess why that may be?

The Engineer class is allot better off then the first class I played (Ranger). Which brings me to my point. There are many pressing issues for them to make everything perfect, they have a limited budget and resources. I’m sure they would love to make every one happy but we have to remember ANET is not god.

It would be unprofessional for ANET to divulge all of it’s inner workings to it’s customers. Maybe someone wants to know why the beans always taste funny when Juan makes your burrito at Taco Bell, but Taco Bell will never tell you.

Just because you think you world experiences makes you more qualified to do other peoples jobs, doesn’t make it true. You may need a reality check because your just another person, no better then anyone. You want a perfect game, go find one? There are more pressing issues then your Engineer woes.

The tankcat build is for support. You don’t understand the usefulness and the dynamic of the build because you’re not as good as you’d like to think (most people are too stubborn to accept this, but that’s okay) No other class in the game can do what it does, even if other classes spec bunker.

What he does in our group is since we typically have 5-8 people going against 40+, he runs around and soaks damage and assists on picking our teammates up. This is an extremely important job, perhaps moreso than any amount of damage output that any class can do. Why is that? Because think about it. If a smaller group downs 8-10 people, those people are down. But if a single person from your group dies, then those 8-10 people all rally off you. It is extremely important that when taking out larger numbers nobody on your team dies. Ever. And the tankcat is always right there to ensure that doesn’t happen. The tankcat also is unmatched in finishing downed opponents, something that the other classes can’t do because they’re not as tanky, and they’re also more efficient doing something else.

Most people don’t “get it” though. After having explained it, however, if you prefer to see BIG NUMBERS and TONS OF DAMAGE then either you’ll need to wait for class updates or just pick another class, because I can assure you, the engineer falls far short of other big damage classes like thief or guardian.

It’s kind of like saying nobody wants to play the healer. Well, if you want to win (you do want to win, don’t you?) and you want to be part of a team, you have to play the position you’re good at. It may not be the superstar role that everybody cheers at, but it’s certainly just as important of a role, because without it, everything falls apart, and that superstar guy you’re so jealous of can’t do his thing either.

Engineer is a highly customizable class, moreso than other classes, IMO. :>

I personally see Engineers as a Jack-of-all-trades class. I don’t think we excel at any one thing, but we have the capability to adapt to nearly any situation. Healer? HELL YEAH! Damage dealer? We can drop some pretty great dps! Tank? You bet your sweet kitten we can tank! Facemelting condition spec? SURE, I GUESS!

I play TANKCAT as a highly survivable turbo dunker/rezzer in group play, and a retaliation/confusion monster in solo play.

In sPvP, when you’re on a point, people can’t really afford to run from you, because if they do, they’re going to lose points for their team, assuming you stay on point (it IS a bunker build with limited roaming capabilities)

In WvWvW, fleeing enemies are an issue against your one pull and one stun (with Supply Crate), but you’d be surprised at how many people DON’T stop being stupid and keep attacking you. I often initiate (along with the guardian in our group), and you’d be amazed at how many people try to burn me down instead of killing our 12k hp thief that’s twoshotting everyone. Quickness dunking people while tiny has rallied our group more times than once. While it’s not the incredibly satisfying watch-huge-numbers-and-people-dying-instantly type of playstyle that a lot of people want, it’s very valuable and I personally feel it’s very satisfying to play. :>

My best advice for anyone that’s having trouble with engineer is to pick a build that suits your playstyle on the forums, and use it as a template!

Don’t copy it to a T. Pick what you like, change what you don’t! This is Guild Wars 2, after all. There’s obviously some poor choices; we have some bugs, and we have some subpar skills, and maybe those will be fixed by ANET in future updates. But there’s a world of possibility out there, especially with Engineers.

I just want condition damage to be viable.
I played a warlock in WoW and researched all the professions before deciding on engineer because they are the only profession in the game that can reliably apply all four damaging conditions.

Unfortunately that is not how things have turned out.
Not because the Engineer is bad, but because condition damage is so under par right now. The bitter irony is that the very class I play is one of the reasons its so useless in the first place (look at you cleaning formula!)

I don’t know, maybe Nisha can come up with some crazy kitten condition engi build in the future but he seems like hes having a blast with his tank build.

gkaare.8576:

Graill.8596:

With 22 years and change being retired military, 3 wars, 4 years of combat, travel to and support of over 25 countries that i can remember offhand during that time. I have accumulated alot of wisdom and imagination because of my experiences, what developer among Anet has the imagination, common sense, creativity, personel management skills or leadership that comes with that type of life experience? Without even looking at a resume i doubt any Anet employee has. That also isnt a callout, its a fact.

I already disagreed with the majority of your post. But this part right here conveys the exact opposite of the message you’re trying to deliver.

You should send me an in-game message if you want to talk about what you’re doing wrong.

I was following along until the military experience part. That is when I disagreed.

Frankly, I view myself as worldly because I’m a science nerd and a gamer. Science is in everything, everywhere. Lots of ideas come from that—oceans to outer-space, past to future. And gaming, well that is just pure fantasy and creativity right there.

My military experience is dead last in what I would consider an asset to creativity. It was… fairly straightforward. Not much thinking involved. I don’t view my experiences with creative ways at packing conex boxes as an asset in game design. Or jerry-rigging broken things to work correctly by using other broken parts. I give that credit to Macgyver. Or my past knowledge before service.

Sounds a bit elitist to assume that traveling the world and being in a warzone gives some sort of insight that others lack. One, journalists and archeologists (yes, they are in Iraq trying to preserve the Mesopotamian stuff from being bomb food) are in the danger zone as well. I think Showtime is doing a series about journalists in the field, and it is a bit morbid when you know these people recently died after filming. Two, ArenaNet is bound to have veterans. Veterans are everywhere. We make up a little over 10% of the population.

But otherwise, yes I agree, the Engineer needs a bit of lovin. Not the “scrap it and start again” type lovin. But the gentle loving of nursing a delicate thing into something or other. (like flowers, or women, or some usual cliche and gag-worthy saying)

Or, just make my boomstick better. I’m tired of seeing only the cookie cutter builds fall short of the DPS other professions can do, and any of our other kits just never even bust through a wet paper bag…

Maskaganda.2043:

Yesterday I won a 3v1 and a 4v1 against level 80 toons in wvw. In the 3v1 I had two rifle engineers from the same guild trying to kill me. This is something I do regularly on my engie and I cannot pull stunts like that on my mesmer, even tho it hits much harder.

Now I’m not denying the class has some issues, mainly to do with kit weapon damage and sigils, but it’s surely one of the better done and more versatile classes in the game in my view.

^ This.

All my other toons hit so much harder (in pvp). But my Engineer is ‘meh’.

PvE is never an issue. Mobs run up, bunch together, stand still, and let us unload all our utility on them. It’s great! (have ranged mob? Just LOS)

PvP is ok, because fighting on the point results in a similar situation. Our utility shows. But the other professions have the same utility. We are great at support, but DPS? Not in my opinion. We just hit so much weaker. We need to have certain cookie cutter builds to purposely negate the burst specs, while we do no damage to them. Or, we go more offensive and go toe-to-toe, yet frankly if we kill anything, I assume the other player is ‘bad’, a complete glass cannon, or had everything on cooldown.

We tank well. The other side of the coin? No so much. In this rock, paper, scissors game, many are rock, few are paper, and we are scissors.

EDIT: The best way to put it, I have more even matches on my other professions. I win and feel I deserved the win. I lose, I made a mistake.

My Engineer feels like I lose, because I was just plainly weak. I win, because the other player was not using their skills fully (like when fight and you think "why are they not hitting me with XXX? I get that A LOT when playing Engineer)

I agree Engineer is very underpowered and needs changing. Our damage output is simply too low and inferior allaround to other classes outside grenade kits.

That said, the biggest problem with Engineer in my opinion is that in order to be effective with any particular weapon or kit, we’re forced to trait to it. Example: 30 into Explosives for Grenades or 30 into Inventions for Sentries.

The forced-traits locks the Engineer into very specific weapons/kits they are balanced around as opposed to Warrior who can be effective with any weapon.

That, and Pistol is a joke with 3/5 of our skills broken, missing, or just plain underpowered.

The engineer is an extremely playable and enjoyable class. Made even more so by taking the attitude of “How do I make this work” in spite of all that might be going wrong.

Not unlike an Engineer in RL.

Raf.1078:

The engineer is an extremely playable and enjoyable class. Made even more so by taking the attitude of “How do I make this work” in spite of all that might be going wrong.

Not unlike an Engineer in RL.

This is the correct approach to the engineer. Without problem solving, we are nothing.

Certainly, Anet should be hard at work chipping away at the list of bugs. Meanwhile, we should be getting creative and using what works, not what’s broken.

Total rework? No

Fixes and partial rework? Absolutely

Plain and simple, kits need to have their stats removed, and to use whatever your weapon stats/sigils are.

Raf.1078:

The engineer is an extremely playable and enjoyable class. Made even more so by taking the attitude of “How do I make this work” in spite of all that might be going wrong.

Not unlike an Engineer in RL.

No its not. A real Engineer doesn’t have to cut corners just to be on par with other professions.

engineer doesnt need a total rework, not even a partial one. it’s fine as it is, it just needs bugfixing and a way to get sigils and weapon dps working on kits.

Maskaganda.2043:

engineer doesnt need a total rework, not even a partial one. it’s fine as it is, it just needs bugfixing and a way to get sigils and weapon dps working on kits.

I’d like to see all rifle traits moved to the explosives tree, rename it something else.

I’d also like to see the rifle skills reworked some. 5 should be a blast finish instead of a leap finish. 3 Needs a slighty larger range and better aim’ing mechanics.

I’d love if 3 was a cone overlay like you see in games like League of Legends for some skills.

Does prolonged exposure to Agent Orange add a chromosome?

Military history, real world wisdom, and the ever-so-popular “If I can’t figure it out then it must be broken” attitude makes this a fine post to troll.

Thanks for the laughs, OP.

I run an engineer and have a blast.

Grenades (dreamy)
Rifle
Elixer Gun

My major complaint is the Sigil issue.

Kirrund.2654:

The tankcat build is for support. You don’t understand the usefulness and the dynamic of the build because you’re not as good as you’d like to think (most people are too stubborn to accept this, but that’s okay) No other class in the game can do what it does, even if other classes spec bunker.

What he does in our group is since we typically have 5-8 people going against 40+, he runs around and soaks damage and assists on picking our teammates up. This is an extremely important job, perhaps moreso than any amount of damage output that any class can do. Why is that? Because think about it. If a smaller group downs 8-10 people, those people are down. But if a single person from your group dies, then those 8-10 people all rally off you. It is extremely important that when taking out larger numbers nobody on your team dies. Ever. And the tankcat is always right there to ensure that doesn’t happen. The tankcat also is unmatched in finishing downed opponents, something that the other classes can’t do because they’re not as tanky, and they’re also more efficient doing something else.

That’s the key engineer role in WvW, and it can be done in a number of ways utilizing elixir S, self regulating defenses, elixir R, rocket boots, and our numerous block skills.

What we lack in the heavy hitting dps department, or in the “tank it all day, all night” arena we make up for in situational usefulness.

You can push in, do a nice amount of damage and conditions, draw attention, and escape.

Tankcat does this, as do some bomb / FT builds.

I personally use a dps focused tool belt rifle build.

I get stability from a guardian and then do a jumpshot / blunderbuss into the zerg. I swap to tool kit for the aoe cripple / bleed from kit refinement and then use gear shield to draw attention for 3s. After that I hit elixir S, swap to elixir gun dropping a light field, I then use super elixir for another light field, use fumigate, and then acid bomb to escape after elixir S fades. At that point I’ll use throw wrench and supply crate for a bit of CC, dps, and support.

1v1 it’s not a fantastic build. In TPvP it’s not that great. In PvE it’s subpar to grenade.

But when doing WvW, and when doing pub game’s it’s fantastic with a little bit of team support.

It’s something we can do with a number of builds that other professions have a hard replicating.

Kain Francois.4328:

Raf.1078:

The engineer is an extremely playable and enjoyable class. Made even more so by taking the attitude of “How do I make this work” in spite of all that might be going wrong.

Not unlike an Engineer in RL.

No its not. A real Engineer doesn’t have to cut corners just to be on par with other professions.

A real engineer can make something work in a pinch. Until time and money allows for a real fix. Paperwork engineers twiddle their thumbs during downtime cause the books say it “can’t” be done this way.

What kind of engineer are you?

JackBurton.1803:

Does prolonged exposure to Agent Orange add a chromosome?

Military history, real world wisdom, and the ever-so-popular “If I can’t figure it out then it must be broken” attitude makes this a fine post to troll.

Thanks for the laughs, OP.

I run an engineer and have a blast.

Grenades (dreamy)
Rifle
Elixer Gun

My major complaint is the Sigil issue.

Same here…grenades, rifle, EGun…with static build. Though thanks to Tank Cat…I do so love that honkin prybar. Just wish it would load instantly, lol.

My engineer uses duct tape, for everything. And it works

Kirrund.2654:

The tankcat build is for support. You don’t understand the usefulness and the dynamic of the build because you’re not as good as you’d like to think (most people are too stubborn to accept this, but that’s okay) No other class in the game can do what it does, even if other classes spec bunker.

What he does in our group is since we typically have 5-8 people going against 40+, he runs around and soaks damage and assists on picking our teammates up. This is an extremely important job, perhaps moreso than any amount of damage output that any class can do. Why is that? Because think about it. If a smaller group downs 8-10 people, those people are down. But if a single person from your group dies, then those 8-10 people all rally off you. It is extremely important that when taking out larger numbers nobody on your team dies. Ever. And the tankcat is always right there to ensure that doesn’t happen. The tankcat also is unmatched in finishing downed opponents, something that the other classes can’t do because they’re not as tanky, and they’re also more efficient doing something else.

Most people don’t “get it” though. After having explained it, however, if you prefer to see BIG NUMBERS and TONS OF DAMAGE then either you’ll need to wait for class updates or just pick another class, because I can assure you, the engineer falls far short of other big damage classes like thief or guardian.

It’s kind of like saying nobody wants to play the healer. Well, if you want to win (you do want to win, don’t you?) and you want to be part of a team, you have to play the position you’re good at. It may not be the superstar role that everybody cheers at, but it’s certainly just as important of a role, because without it, everything falls apart, and that superstar guy you’re so jealous of can’t do his thing either.

That build has no support at all. Its all personal blocks and invul. That is not support.
There ARE engi support builds. that isn’t one of them.

Also tons of profs have stealth, stability, fear, blind, quickness to stomp with ease. Don’t be silly.

Casia.4281:

That build has no support at all. Its all personal blocks and invul. That is not support.
There ARE engi support builds. that isn’t one of them.

Also tons of profs have stealth, stability, fear, blind, quickness to stomp with ease. Don’t be silly.

How exactly do you define support? If your vision of a “support build” is one that only buffs teammates without healing or much offensive capability, then no, it’s not a support build. By that definition, there’s no such thing as an engineer support build, unless you spec into alchemy and never use your weapon(s). That’s an awfully narrow definition of support, though.

When I look at a build that can soak or mitigate a lot of damage, distract the opposition, and/or perform some useful service for the group that is not direct damage, direct healing, or direct mob threat maintenance, that looks to me like a “support” build. The “tankcat” build’s creator uses it primarily for misdirection and rapid stomp/rez – that screams support to me, whether he’s buffing everybody else or not.

I was a little on board with the OP until I got to the part where they put forth their rather inflated self-image, and it was kind of all downhill from there.

Let’s break this post down by paragraph.

1: Alright! Let’s read this thread!
2: Okay. Amusing, I guess.
3: Sounds like thinly veiled complaining, but let’s keep going.
4: Not even veiled. Just whining.
5: Callout, followed by the redirection of the callout as “simple fact.” Right.
6: I’m a veteran! My opinions are obviously more important than those of non-veterans, because military experience makes me qualified to do everything better than you. No. I respect our military (both sides of my family), but doing X in a warzone does not make you better at doing Y as a civilian. Sorry.
7: Ad hominem attacks at non-veterans. kitten off.
8: More whining.
9: Compliment outside the scope of the thread.

This post is just dumb, misinformed, and disappointing, given the expectation set up by the introduction.

Imperatora.7654:

so in those 22 years in the military, how many games did you make? how many million copies did you ship? how many "worlds" did you build?

None?

Well, maybe the guys with 22 years experience doing that should stick to doing that and you should stick to being military. I know which I would rather have commanding troops and which I would rather have making my games thank you.

Oh be nice Imperatora the OP has a point. Look at the rest of the other profs - all basically nerfed into oblivion. I was reading how upset the Mesmers were after the 12-3 nerf patch. The necros - the pet ai is garbage. People are up in arms on the forums because this game is quickly going down the crapper in so many ways. The "devs" have basically destroyed all the fun elements here and made the game itself as nothing more than impotent and flaccid...

@ mavet

“….I can’t play (( insert every profession here))…therefore all the classes are nerfed to oblivion and simply unplayable….” ??

You can’t be serious. And if you are, then its more about your lack of skill and less about the game in general.

I’ve read all the endless whining. But, I can make anything work and have a good time doing it. Bugs be kittened.

A blind fanboi can make an engineer work…but you can’t.

Reckon that says it all.

@Raf, I never said I couldn’t make an engineer work - the issue is why should I even have to do that due to the "devs" ineptitudes? It should automatically work as shown in the nice little propaganda movies we were shown before we bought the game. But I’m from an older generation of gamer where I ACTUALLY EXPECT to get my money’s worth and not have to "make" a toon work with bubble gum and string....

mavet.3047:

@Raf, I never said I couldn’t make an engineer work – the issue is why should I even have to do that due to the “devs” ineptitudes? It should automatically work as shown in the nice little propaganda movies we were shown before we bought the game. But I’m from an older generation of gamer where I ACTUALLY EXPECT to get my money’s worth and not have to “make” a toon work with bubble gum and string….

No, what you are is an entitled gamer that believes that because of whatever justification you’ve decided in your head, you should be able to play any class regardless of skill.

Engineer is a high skill profession. It has a much higher skill curve than any other class ( except perhaps ele) and because of that you see people on these boards who can’t do certain things as easy as other classes complain.

Engineer is a very competitive, capable profession, regardless of what you believe. It plays exactly as advertised.

The problem with most people that play the engineer class, is that they believe you can solve all situations using the same 3 utilities.

This is the most handicapped way to play the profession. You must be willing to change utilities often to get the most out of the profession. Not just get bogged down into one way of thinking.

mavet.3047:

@Raf, I never said I couldn’t make an engineer work – the issue is why should I even have to do that due to the “devs” ineptitudes? It should automatically work as shown in the nice little propaganda movies we were shown before we bought the game.

By and large, it does work. Engineer’s problems are not so much in class design right now as in scaling constants. Some kits and skills have very low co-efficients which drives engineer players to use kits that are not neglected thusly. It would also help in general if classes relying on AI minions (Engineer and Necormancer) respected your target and pathing more.

The fundamental design of the engineers is sound, but it seems to always have been meant to be a high APM class with a reactive playstyle. If that is not your game, then there are several other classes to try.

But I’m from an older generation of gamer where I ACTUALLY EXPECT to get my money’s worth and not have to “make” a toon work with bubble gum and string….

Don’t even play this card, kiddo. Classic games kick you square in the tailbone and demand appreciation for it. Next you’re going to tell me you remember “the good old days” of “Mario 64.”

GW2 is in a very good state given its age. WoW and DAoC were much worse, balance-wise.

Istarien.3147:

Casia.4281:

That build has no support at all. Its all personal blocks and invul. That is not support.
There ARE engi support builds. that isn’t one of them.

Also tons of profs have stealth, stability, fear, blind, quickness to stomp with ease. Don’t be silly.

How exactly do you define support? If your vision of a “support build” is one that only buffs teammates without healing or much offensive capability, then no, it’s not a support build. By that definition, there’s no such thing as an engineer support build, unless you spec into alchemy and never use your weapon(s). That’s an awfully narrow definition of support, though.

When I look at a build that can soak or mitigate a lot of damage, distract the opposition, and/or perform some useful service for the group that is not direct damage, direct healing, or direct mob threat maintenance, that looks to me like a “support” build. The “tankcat” build’s creator uses it primarily for misdirection and rapid stomp/rez – that screams support to me, whether he’s buffing everybody else or not.

By your definition, everything is support.
Tanks, support by soaking damage. dps supports by dealing damage. That is an absurd definition, because, everything is support under that definition.

Support, provides utility, healing, buffs/debuffs for allies.
EG, elixirs in general with their throws. Various CC based skills, such as ram, net turret.
Things that apply blinds, daze, stun, knockbacks/downs.

Hell, my grenade build DOES apply more “support” running with elixir B, U, R, and H on swap. KB, blind, cleansing, ressing, block/reflect walls, stealth, prot/vigor/regen, lots of might, swiftness/fury/ret.
(I swap b and U on need. Used to run B more, but have been swapping to U. that block/reflect provides some amazing support.)

If deployable turrets worked in wvw, you know I would be playing with an accel packed+deployable turret build. ranged aoe kbx4. that would be amazing. Massive smoke field.
There are builds that support beyond elixirs. TK’s pull does totally count for that.

Casia.4281:

Istarien.3147:

Casia.4281:

That build has no support at all. Its all personal blocks and invul. That is not support.
There ARE engi support builds. that isn’t one of them.

Also tons of profs have stealth, stability, fear, blind, quickness to stomp with ease. Don’t be silly.

How exactly do you define support? If your vision of a “support build” is one that only buffs teammates without healing or much offensive capability, then no, it’s not a support build. By that definition, there’s no such thing as an engineer support build, unless you spec into alchemy and never use your weapon(s). That’s an awfully narrow definition of support, though.

When I look at a build that can soak or mitigate a lot of damage, distract the opposition, and/or perform some useful service for the group that is not direct damage, direct healing, or direct mob threat maintenance, that looks to me like a “support” build. The “tankcat” build’s creator uses it primarily for misdirection and rapid stomp/rez – that screams support to me, whether he’s buffing everybody else or not.

By your definition, everything is support.
Tanks, support by soaking damage. dps supports by dealing damage. That is an absurd definition, because, everything is support under that definition.

Would that make the supply crate a support group?

Engineers are amazing support. You can save lives and make things easier with your plethora of knock backs, combo fields, solid damage, fantastic rezing ability, and minor heals.

Engineer isn’t obvious, and really does take a lot of thought and skill to get the most usage and fun out of because they have so much utility packed into the skills they get.