Guild Wars 2

Hi there gentleman,

As now I’m more calm then yesterday and got the time to test the new patch, I want to share you guys my opinion about the last patch and why I was mad.

My vision are about WvW(pvp) and tPvP, so I respect PvE opinion, but I feel like PvE is less affected by those change. So this will be a PvP discution.

Why do I think we got nerfed more then we got buffed last patch?

1- Kit Refinement

We now have a Global cooldown of 10 sec, in addition to the individual timer from each kit. From last report, jump/swapping doesn’t seems to work, as it proc de global timer even if it doesn’t cast the KR.

So now any build that used the KR proc will be deedly hurt (Multikit cond, multikit control, 100nade, 3 kit build, support build). Switching to toolkit prior to grenade could remove you a grenade barrage for a box of nail that could be useless in that situation. You can’t have double Condition removal from FT and EG. You can’t stack conditions anymore with grenade/toolkit ect.

Reasonning #1 -> Kit Refinement was OP

It wasn’t. In high level PvP, and high level roamers, kit refinement was far from being an issue. Engineer are still rated below average for there overall effectness in the current META.

Our most popular sPvP build (HGH cond and 100nade) weren’t based around the KR timer. 100nade is the build using KR that is the least affected by the nerf. They still have the combo. They just can’t pull anymore to do it.

HGH isn’t using KR, is simpler to play then 100nade, and top engineer consider it our top build.

4-kit build, nerfed really bad by this, was really average in the cure meta. You could bring some interresting build, but the lack of CC breaker was hard. No where did you find anyone complaining about that.

2- Flamethrower

Even with the buff, Flamethrower isn’t a descent sPvP weapon. It is not viable.

When you use this kit, you only use it to pop cooldown, and get out. You can’t be centered around it, since good player will ether kite you, or melee you. Melee can be a pain because it’s really hard to keep your #1 channeling on a dinamyc enemy. You shouldn’t be able to finish your channel on a good player. You have to dodge, they have to dodge, they pass tru you, making your attack misses.

FT in sPvP was mainly used for control, even with the damage buff, others options are still better. It’s a PvE weapon.

So the buff really isn’t helping us in sPvP. The #2 detonate change is pretty cool tho!

Also, in WvW, Flamethrower was a lot better before. Why? Because it was used with omn pie. It was the only way to use it -> Life stealing the hell out of everyone. Now it got disable (a good thing). But Flametrower damage boost doesn’t help if you are death from retaliation/confusion.

*3- Elixir Gun *

Minimal change, but a good one. Sadly, most EG build were in multikit build. When I had EG, I used KR to have the double effect. Now we have one effect, a bit stronger, but not worth the lose of the FT/EG KR combo.

*4 – Toolkit *

Really good change on prybar, tho confusion is kinda weak in sPvP. Also counter balanced by the fact that we got our KR nerfed.

I don’t think I have the absolute truth, but I think people saying KR nerf isn’t that big of a deal, or was OP already, don’t understand the sPvP meta. You can’t take too many nerf like that with an already below average class. 10 seconds is a lot in a fight with top players!

Thanks for reading!

P.S : Even tho I was using 100 nade, I was pushing for a nerf to the burst. I don’t like one shotting combo, and I felt like it deserved some kind of tone down.

But this nerf, is the worse way to could pull it out. The combo still one shot, but they broke everything around it. They broke multiple non 100nade build.

Kardiamond.6952:

Really good change on prybar, tho confusion is kinda weak in sPvP.

confusion is kinda weak

confusion kinda weak

confusion weak

weak

How is confusion weak in your opinion?

Kardiamond.6952:

Why do I think we got nerfed more then we got buffed last patch?

1- Kit Refinement

We now have a Global cooldown of 10 sec, in addition to the individual timer from each kit. From last report, jump/swapping doesn’t seems to work, as it proc de global timer even if it doesn’t cast the KR.

So now any build that used the KR proc will be deedly hurt (Multikit cond, multikit control, 100nade, 3 kit build, support build). Switching to toolkit prior to grenade could remove you a grenade barrage for a box of nail that could be useless in that situation. You can’t have double Condition removal from FT and EG. You can’t stack conditions anymore with grenade/toolkit ect.

Reasonning #1 -> Kit Refinement was OP

It wasn’t. In high level PvP, and high level roamers, kit refinement was far from being an issue. Engineer are still rated below average for there overall effectness in the current META.

Our most popular sPvP build (HGH cond and 100nade) weren’t based around the KR timer. 100nade is the build using KR that is the least affected by the nerf. They still have the combo. They just can’t pull anymore to do it.

HGH isn’t using KR, is simpler to play then 100nade, and top engineer consider it our top build.

4-kit build, nerfed really bad by this, was really average in the cure meta. You could bring some interresting build, but the lack of CC breaker was hard. No where did you find anyone complaining about that.

2- Flamethrower

Even with the buff, Flamethrower isn’t a descent sPvP weapon. It is not viable.

When you use this kit, you only use it to pop cooldown, and get out. You can’t be centered around it, since good player will ether kite you, or melee you. Melee can be a pain because it’s really hard to keep your #1 channeling on a dinamyc enemy. You shouldn’t be able to finish your channel on a good player. You have to dodge, they have to dodge, they pass tru you, making your attack misses.

FT in sPvP was mainly used for control, even with the damage buff, others options are still better. It’s a PvE weapon.

So the buff really isn’t helping us in sPvP. The #2 detonate change is pretty cool tho!

Also, in WvW, Flamethrower was a lot better before. Why? Because it was used with omn pie. It was the only way to use it -> Life stealing the hell out of everyone. Now it got disable (a good thing). But Flametrower damage boost doesn’t help if you are death from retaliation/confusion.

*3- Elixir Gun *

Minimal change, but a good one. Sadly, most EG build were in multikit build. When I had EG, I used KR to have the double effect. Now we have one effect, a bit stronger, but not worth the lose of the FT/EG KR combo.

*4 – Toolkit *

Really good change on prybar, tho confusion is kinda weak in sPvP. Also counter balanced by the fact that we got our KR nerfed.

I don’t think I have the absolute truth, but I think people saying KR nerf isn’t that big of a deal, or was OP already, don’t understand the sPvP meta. You can’t take too many nerf like that with an already below average class. 10 seconds is a lot in a fight with top players!

^that, have +1

DDog.4350:

Kardiamond.6952:

Really good change on prybar, tho confusion is kinda weak in sPvP.

confusion is kinda weak

confusion kinda weak

confusion weak

weak

How is confusion weak in your opinion?

The confusion condition in sPvP got nerfed pretty bad. There is a reason why you don’t see glamour mesmer anymore.

II was too harsh, this is still a good conditions. But a lot less effective then it used to be.

Discussing it in other topics too much already, so a summary from my views:

- FT: big buffs, not big enough but still very good.
Mostly puzzled why the tool belt is still on a 60 second cooldown. Amazingly bad tool belt skill for a kit.

- EG: blast finisher is ‘ok’, stunbreaker would have been ‘great’.
Better healing is better healing, even if not spectacular it’s a good change.

- Prybar: awesome…

- kit refinement: biggest nerf to engineer versatility ever. Without exagerating. A tremendous nerf to multi-kit builds in so many ways.

- about 100nades: don’t let 8 grenades of grenade barrage overlap in the center (make it 4 or 6 and the rest bit outside of single character model) and you have succesfully destroyed any burst that build had.
if nerfing 100nades was their intention, they could have done it very effective without touching upon aoe or any other build at all.
Poor design, can’t say anything more.
Just this: I do NOT want 100nades nerfed that hard. just saying how they could have done it better.

- food nerf is a nerf to FT builds, it was coming and I think it is justified in general. Just sad it ofsets the FT buffs by a LARGE margin.

@Kimbald

I completly agree with everything you said.

Food nerf was deserved, but at the same time, it’s a huge nerf over a lacking kit that is FlameThrower.

Kimbald.2697:

Discussing it in other topics too much already, so a summary from my views:

- FT: big buffs, not big enough but still very good.
Mostly puzzled why the tool belt is still on a 60 second cooldown. Amazingly bad tool belt skill for a kit.

- EG: blast finisher is ‘ok’, stunbreaker would have been ‘great’.
Better healing is better healing, even if not spectacular it’s a good change.

- Prybar: awesome…

- kit refinement: biggest nerf to engineer versatility ever. Without exagerating. A tremendous nerf to multi-kit builds in so many ways.

- about 100nades: don’t let 8 grenades of grenade barrage overlap in the center (make it 4 or 6 and the rest bit outside of single character model) and you have succesfully destroyed any burst that build had.
if nerfing 100nades was their intention, they could have done it very effective without touching upon aoe or any other build at all.
Poor design, can’t say anything more.
Just this: I do NOT want 100nades nerfed that hard. just saying how they could have done it better.

- food nerf is a nerf to FT builds, it was coming and I think it is justified in general. Just sad it ofsets the FT buffs by a LARGE margin.

it wasnt their intention at all, 100Nades is untouched lol

their intention was encourage the players to stay longer in kits and make builds around a certain kit and discourage kit swamping

btw.. devs read these threads, got a post deleted cause i pointed out warrior’s rifle killshot does 15k dmg on sPvP and 20-25k pve and WvW on a 10s CD and 1,500 range.. smh…

100nades is untouched because it uses the tool kit for magnet pull alongside the obvious grenade kit.
Tool kit indeed doesn’t proc the internal cooldown of kit refinement.

So either they did this on purpose to ‘spare’ 100nades (= unlikley version)
or it’s a bug and Tool kit slipped the radar for now on the change (= version I believe in from deep in my dark conspiracy filled world)

Engineer patch : Nerf or buff?

Obviously, great NERF.

Kimbald.2697:

100nades is untouched because it uses the tool kit for magnet pull alongside the obvious grenade kit.
Tool kit indeed doesn’t proc the internal cooldown of kit refinement.

So either they did this on purpose to ‘spare’ 100nades (= unlikley version)
or it’s a bug and Tool kit slipped the radar for now on the change (= version I believe in from deep in my dark conspiracy filled world)

nah, i’m sure its more towards the reason i gave you, the trait is broken for a reason, so they can nerf it whenever they see fit and claim is as a bug fix, they want people to use the upgraded EG and FT

And ‘discourage’ kit swapping is the most ludacris thing a dev could ever say when discussing the ‘versatile’ engineer

What the hell is the point of zero cooldown kit swapping versus 10 second weapon swapping? Weapons are better than kits…
So if not to ENCOURAGE kit swapping, I can’t see the point of the whole design.

Not saying you are wrong, just pointing at the utter lack of consistancy in the way they handle engineer design.

@Kimbald

Did you test it after the last build?

I heard they changed it so toolkit now proc it.

But overall, there intention was to put a timer on it. It will happen sooner or later.

“Kit Refinement: This trait now has an internal cooldown of 10 seconds globally for Flamethrower, Elixir Gun, Grenade Kit, and Tool Kit.”

SilverWF.4789:

Engineer patch : Nerf or buff?

Obviously, great NERF.

trait is broken as of now, as long as you avoid FT or EG, you’re good! if anything they are doing us a favor by keeping people away from those :P ( although i like EG)

Kardiamond.6952:

@Kimbald

Did you test it after the last build?

I heard they changed it so toolkit now proc it.

But overall, there intention was to put a timer on it. It will happen sooner or later.

“Kit Refinement: This trait now has an internal cooldown of 10 seconds globally for Flamethrower, Elixir Gun, Grenade Kit, and Tool Kit.”

nope, not yet. But thanks for pointing that out.
Was a bug apparantly.
This now hurts 100nades pretty bad.
No more magnet pulling first.
Guess a deployable net turret is a ‘decent’ alternative for them. Net shot, net turret, tool belt net… by that time you should be there I guess.

Sad part is that the net turret holds no utility in that build outside of this part, leaving the 100nades build even more gimmicky and one sided than it already was.

Think I’ll explode when I hear a dev utter the words ‘versatile’ and ‘engineer’ in the same post again.

Kimbald.2697:

And ‘discourage’ kit swapping is the most ludacris thing a dev could ever say when discussing the ‘versatile’ engineer

What the hell is the point of zero cooldown kit swapping versus 10 second weapon swapping? Weapons are better than kits…
So if not to ENCOURAGE kit swapping, I can’t see the point of the whole design.

Not saying you are wrong, just pointing at the utter lack of consistancy in the way they handle engineer design.

they have failed to give the engineer a role in game or identity as a class, and that’s what they are trying to do now, they want us to play the game 1 way but people play it another, so they nerf.. if they have time to spend hours writing code to break a perfectly balance trait, not to mention it was one of the best ones we have, why can’t they do anything about gadgets and turrents? or fix the long list of bugs

and bro, trust me 100nades is completely fine! they can still magnet pull and spike normally

google.3709:

SilverWF.4789:

Engineer patch : Nerf or buff?

Obviously, great NERF.

trait is broken as of now, as long as you avoid FT or EG, you’re good! if anything they are doing us a favor by keeping people away from those :P ( although i like EG)

thing is: if the patch note includes tool kit, you can be sure that will be fixed.

Don’t forget there are 2 speeds of engineer bug fixes:

- months, for the bugs we want fixed
- weeks, for the bugs we don’t want fixed

Kimbald.2697:

google.3709:

SilverWF.4789:

Engineer patch : Nerf or buff?

Obviously, great NERF.

trait is broken as of now, as long as you avoid FT or EG, you’re good! if anything they are doing us a favor by keeping people away from those :P ( although i like EG)

thing is: if the patch note includes tool kit, you can be sure that will be fixed.

Don’t forget there are 2 speeds of engineer bug fixes:

- months, for the bugs we want fixed
- weeks, for the bugs we don’t want fixed

weeks but don’t specify how many! last bug that was bother to fixed was deployable turrets and there is a post counting up to days to 181days to be fix, im sure its alot longer :P

Well deployable turrets was a “buff” fix.

Now it’s a nerf fix, expect it to be done this week.

I’ve understood something…

1. There is a TONS of Elems, Thieves and Warriors around – it’s obvious and visible to anyone.
What if they will nerf them, coz this classes REALLY need to be nerfed?
You all can imagine that: a HUGE tons of the whine threads at forums, massive leaving game, bad reputation, etc.

2. How many Engineers around who are really playing Enginers most of the time? Really low number.
What will happens if they are nerfing us? generally, nothing: 2-3 whine threads – it can be easly handled with just one moderator.

3. Why they need to nerf someone?
very easy: Arena.NET have top-management. They are didnt know anything about their own game, over it’s name: no any classes, no any builds, no any WvW ratings or sPvP ladders – nothing. Only they are know – the game with name “Guild Wars 2” exists, this is their own game and that’s all.

But sometimes one of the Top-managers hear some strange thing, what everyone talking about: “Huge class disbalanse in the GW2!! This game not so good as they promised!”
He saying to the mid-manager: “Hey! WTF with balanse in the our game? Investigate it and fix it!”

Mid-manager talking to low-manager: “Hey! WTF with balanse in the our game? Investigate it and fix it!”

Low-manadgement and community management know about points 1 and 2 (see above). They are nerfing Engineers, waiting for some “Why Engineers nerfed again??” threads, showing it to the upper management with commets “Disbalanse was fixed!” and all is done.
managment will have a good dreams, OP-classes will pwn all around as always. What? how about Engineers? God, who cares about low-popularity class?!

google.3709:

Kimbald.2697:

google.3709:

SilverWF.4789:

Engineer patch : Nerf or buff?

Obviously, great NERF.

trait is broken as of now, as long as you avoid FT or EG, you’re good! if anything they are doing us a favor by keeping people away from those :P ( although i like EG)

thing is: if the patch note includes tool kit, you can be sure that will be fixed.

Don’t forget there are 2 speeds of engineer bug fixes:

- months, for the bugs we want fixed
- weeks, for the bugs we don’t want fixed

weeks but don’t specify how many! last bug that was bother to fixed was deployable turrets and there is a post counting up to days to 181days to be fix, im sure its alot longer :P

deployable turrets was a bug we wanted fixed, it falls under category ‘months’. Or in your wording: unspecified number of weeks…
Trust me: kit refinement change and tool kit won’t take that long.

google.3709:

their intention was encourage the players to stay longer in kits and make builds around a certain kit and discourage kit swamping

I think this may be pretty accurate. It seems like they’re trying to bring the skill floor and skill ceiling for the profession down a bit by buffing each individual kit up to a decent level—as good as a second weapon swap for a different profession—but make it less desirable to constantly swap kits every 1-5 seconds like true kitmasters do

Unfortunately, engineers have become attached to using a lot of weak tools to great effect. Just look at our most successful/boring tournament build—P/P, 3 elixirs and grenades—and you’ll see why engineers are less than enthusiastic about this patch.

as I don’t use KR this was definetly a buff for me, as were all patches before.
it made elixir gun -which I already used in pve- much more appealing for wvw and that confusion on prybar is sexy as hell.

@Maskaganda

Since you are usually using a HGH build, that’s right.

But feel the pain fur us a bit, do you want everyone to use the same build as you?

Maskaganda.2043:

as I don’t use KR this was definetly a buff for me, as were all patches before.
it made elixir gun -which I already used in pve- much more appealing for wvw and that confusion on prybar is sexy as hell.

you are very right, and it’s good to hear this side too:
any build not using kit refinement just got a buff, some builds more than others.
Only exception being Flamethrower foodbuffs builds… but that’s more like a casualty of war in a bigger general nerf to foodbuffs.

What annoys me personally the most, is that they nerfed the ultimate VERSATILE engineer trait.
I can not think of any other engineer trait opening up windows to versatility as much as kit refinement.
To destroy that notion for the sake of ‘staying in one kit longer’ goes totally against the concept of the versatile engineer.

Because let’s face it: it’s not like the FT or EG are as good as the weapons other professions have.
Not even after the buffs, they are still not as good as weapons you would use half the time or more.
Not in anything but the simplest pve fights…

Kimbald.2697:

google.3709:

Kimbald.2697:

google.3709:

SilverWF.4789:

Engineer patch : Nerf or buff?

Obviously, great NERF.

trait is broken as of now, as long as you avoid FT or EG, you’re good! if anything they are doing us a favor by keeping people away from those :P ( although i like EG)

thing is: if the patch note includes tool kit, you can be sure that will be fixed.

Don’t forget there are 2 speeds of engineer bug fixes:

- months, for the bugs we want fixed
- weeks, for the bugs we don’t want fixed

weeks but don’t specify how many! last bug that was bother to fixed was deployable turrets and there is a post counting up to days to 181days to be fix, im sure its alot longer :P

deployable turrets was a bug we wanted fixed, it falls under category ‘months’. Or in your wording: unspecified number of weeks…
Trust me: kit refinement change and tool kit won’t take that long.

hopefully it doesn’t take long, at first i was upset but after playing for a while i tweaked my play style a little and discover a variety of new combos, specially with acid bomb which are currently handicapped by the light field and a 10 secs CD will be a great improvement for grande and GE

the trait will still be usable, dedicated players will work a way around it like they always do, the main person gettin hurt are the casual players

Kardiamond.6952:

@Maskaganda

Since you are usually using a HGH build, that’s right.

But feel the pain fur us a bit, do you want everyone to use the same build as you?

I feel your pain and in no way do I want everyone to play with my build :p
Just saying how it feels to me!

google.3709:

Kimbald.2697:

google.3709:

Kimbald.2697:

google.3709:

SilverWF.4789:

Engineer patch : Nerf or buff?

Obviously, great NERF.

trait is broken as of now, as long as you avoid FT or EG, you’re good! if anything they are doing us a favor by keeping people away from those :P ( although i like EG)

thing is: if the patch note includes tool kit, you can be sure that will be fixed.

Don’t forget there are 2 speeds of engineer bug fixes:

- months, for the bugs we want fixed
- weeks, for the bugs we don’t want fixed

weeks but don’t specify how many! last bug that was bother to fixed was deployable turrets and there is a post counting up to days to 181days to be fix, im sure its alot longer :P

deployable turrets was a bug we wanted fixed, it falls under category ‘months’. Or in your wording: unspecified number of weeks…
Trust me: kit refinement change and tool kit won’t take that long.

hopefully it doesn’t take long, at first i was upset but after playing for a while i tweaked my play style a little and discover a variety of new combos, specially with acid bomb which are currently handicapped by the light field and a 10 secs CD will be a great improvement for grande and GE

the trait will still be usable, dedicated players will work a way around it like they always do, the main person gettin hurt are the casual players

I can’t imagine how I could use a 3 kit build (let alone 4 kit) while making practical use of kit refinement.
It’s not about being casual.
I simply swap kits every few seconds.
For example I stack every confusion skill in a row, or chain cc, or other combo’s.

The strenght of my builds is too think across kits, not within kits.

There is no way on earth I can rely on the new kit refinement in such a playstyle.
I will waste kit refinement procs on nails when I need heals next , on med kit bombs when I want aoe blast next, on a light field when I want a cripple next…

The new kit refinement is only reliable on 1, max 2 kits… given the fact you don’t swap around those 2 kits on a skill per skill basis, and rather on a ‘10 second timer’ basis.

So they effectively made kit refinement a way of forcing the normal weapon swap playtyle on kits.
That’s why the trait is so bad now: for a real multi-kit build it is now unreliable.
Multi-kit builds simply don’t stay in a kit very long… ever.

I sort of thought that this was the idea the dev’s had for engineer kits, and than they do this.

we might get the trait back because of the amount of attention that it’s gotten, its important to engis and its not something overpowered by any means so why handicap it ?

if you go on the other classes forums no other class is discussing the effects of the nerf like we are, most classes were unaffected and if anything got buffed, the only ones who have really mentioned anything is ranger and theif, and ranger basiclly like “they screw us once again” or “stop playing your ranger” while theif is discussing the stealth Nerf to no major extend, other than that its just us engi patiently waiting for a dev to give us a clear answer about the nerf. and there have been several threads asking for the same thing

we know devs are reading this because they deleted my tread as soon as i pointed out how OP warrior’s rifle is, so yea.. hopefully they will speak up soon.

Kimbald.2697:

google.3709:

Kimbald.2697:

google.3709:

Kimbald.2697:

google.3709:

SilverWF.4789:

Engineer patch : Nerf or buff?

Obviously, great NERF.

trait is broken as of now, as long as you avoid FT or EG, you’re good! if anything they are doing us a favor by keeping people away from those :P ( although i like EG)

thing is: if the patch note includes tool kit, you can be sure that will be fixed.

Don’t forget there are 2 speeds of engineer bug fixes:

- months, for the bugs we want fixed
- weeks, for the bugs we don’t want fixed

weeks but don’t specify how many! last bug that was bother to fixed was deployable turrets and there is a post counting up to days to 181days to be fix, im sure its alot longer :P

deployable turrets was a bug we wanted fixed, it falls under category ‘months’. Or in your wording: unspecified number of weeks…
Trust me: kit refinement change and tool kit won’t take that long.

hopefully it doesn’t take long, at first i was upset but after playing for a while i tweaked my play style a little and discover a variety of new combos, specially with acid bomb which are currently handicapped by the light field and a 10 secs CD will be a great improvement for grande and GE

the trait will still be usable, dedicated players will work a way around it like they always do, the main person gettin hurt are the casual players

I can’t imagine how I could use a 3 kit build (let alone 4 kit) while making practical use of kit refinement.
It’s not about being casual.
I simply swap kits every few seconds.
For example I stack every confusion skill in a row, or chain cc, or other combo’s.

The strenght of my builds is too think across kits, not within kits.

There is no way on earth I can rely on the new kit refinement in such a playstyle.
I will waste kit refinement procs on nails when I need heals next , on med kit bombs when I want aoe blast next, on a light field when I want a cripple next…

The new kit refinement is only reliable on 1, max 2 kits… given the fact you don’t swap around those 2 kits on a skill per skill basis, and rather on a ‘10 second timer’ basis.

So they effectively made kit refinement a way of forcing the normal weapon swap playtyle on kits.
That’s why the trait is so bad now: for a real multi-kit build it is now unreliable.
Multi-kit builds simply don’t stay in a kit very long… ever.

I sort of thought that this was the idea the dev’s had for engineer kits, and than they do this.

same here, this forces us to change not our builds but our playstyle which is worse, if we continue to play the way this will only cause kit refinement to become one more random & unreliable thing to add to our list

As its stands now this patch had 0 impact on 100nades, wth is up with all these fact free posts and do we rly need 10 posts complaining about the same issues, not that i agree with the anets decision but sky isnt falling. This class community is just pathetic.

Kardiamond.6952:

DDog.4350:

Kardiamond.6952:

Really good change on prybar, tho confusion is kinda weak in sPvP.

confusion is kinda weak

confusion kinda weak

confusion weak

weak

How is confusion weak in your opinion?

The confusion condition in sPvP got nerfed pretty bad. There is a reason why you don’t see glamour mesmer anymore.

II was too harsh, this is still a good conditions. But a lot less effective then it used to be.

sorry didnt know that, when did confusion got nerfed? :o

@DDog

Not long after release. Can’t remember when. Confusion does 50% damage in sPvP. That a huge difference.

@Cato

This is a bug, in the next build it will prolly be debugged. Then the pull + combo won’t work anymore.

But this post isn’t about 100nade build, as it will still be usable. It’s about other build that got nerfed.

The sky isn’t falling. It’s only a game. We are having fun. But I’m not having as much fun when Anet remove the number of viable build I can use in PvP.

That’s the point of the forum, discution about the class. I felt the other post didn’t go in the same way as mine, that’s why I posted it.

I get the feeling you only read the title of my post, then replied the usual : “stop crying” response.

You answer by insulting the communty, I would say you are more pathetic then us.

No offense intended!

Personally I feel that this was an overall buff for non-kit/single-kit users. Personally I never used Kit-Refinement because I’m running 100% condition duration (thanks to the veggie pizza) and I really only ever use wrench-kit with P/P. I also never used it with my Rifle Berserker build either, just found better abilities.

I do feel however that this was a big step in the wrong direction. ANET wants us to use these kits, yet totally discourages people from using multiple kits.

As far as the healing on crit food that was a little over powered, with the Charr racial I was able go from no health to a lot of health firing 8 rounds for 7k damage. Other classes other than the engineer were exploiting this a lot more.

Kardiamond.6952:

This is a bug, in the next build it will prolly be debugged. Then the pull + combo won’t work anymore.

Do you have some source for this claim that it indeed is a bug other than mostly vague patch notes?

Cato.3547:

Kardiamond.6952:

This is a bug, in the next build it will prolly be debugged. Then the pull + combo won’t work anymore.

Do you have some source for this claim that it indeed is a bug other than mostly vague patch notes?

patch notes specifically mention Tool kit, while it doesn’t work in game. That’s a bug by definition in my book.

Mostly a buff. Flamethrower is worth it just for Flame Blast in PvE. For PvP, it’s debatable. I could see it being used in sPvP for the control and the sudden burst from 2, as well as long term burning. For WvW, I’m hesitant to use it – grenade kit for long range, ‘safe’ damage, tool kit for magnet, gear shield, and prybar, and elixir gun for acid bomb helping me escape, as well as the super elixir cleanses.

Kimbald.2697:

patch notes specifically mention Tool kit, while it doesn’t work in game. That’s a bug by definition in my book.

Tool kit’s KR doesn’t trigger if you use FT or EG before it so by definition its affected by this change again the patch notes doesn’t say tool kit itself triggers global cd.

“Kit Refinement: This trait now has an internal cooldown of 10 seconds globally for Flamethrower, Elixir Gun, Grenade Kit, and Tool Kit.”

Toolkit doesn’t trigger it, and it should. Why would it be different then EG and FT when they are under the same change?

“+10% when hitting a burning target”
Using auto attack alone, you only get two hits off before burning ends, which translates to a 2% dmg boost. Auto is still crap cept’ for crit procing
Detonate napalm was nice, I actually hit people with it now, would be welcome if they add detonate on contact with enviroment still…
The change to air burst is odd, not sure why it isn’t a plain 2s of burning.

Super Elixer buff, appreciated.
Kit Refinement…. Not much of a big deal, but its a little annoying I lose out on one condi removal and AoE burn, unsure of the point of GCD as everyone else is, punishes multi-kit when it wasn’t even close to OP to begin with.

Buff or Nerf?
FT: Minor buff, AA is still obsolete.
EG: Good buff, not much but all healing is appreciated, makes healing power a little tempting.
KR: Akward nerf, unsure of if the GCD + ICD is intended or if only one CD is supposed to exist

All in all, Anet really needs to take time to explain patch reasoning like in GW1, but have a decent staff do this please, everyone remember class philosophy blog? Please no more hybrid tax BullSkritt.

The fall from the cheesewagon is indeed a hard one.

Stay off of it altogether, never get hurt. Simple, obvious.