Guild Wars 2

Elixir Gun just got the shaft with the Kit Refinement change.

I’ll have to test and see how the improved Super Elixir does I suppose, but I will sorely miss the free and instant aoe condition removal (worked as a fear remover), regen field and initial heal.

I will say the Medkit and Bomb kit changes are nice, however. Good to see engineer capable of aoe pulls (depending on if it’s range is worth a kitten .

No nades and super elixir or flame blast burning… Did I mention I’m gonna miss old KR? =/

Edit: 20 seconds? I missed that completely. 10 was pushing it, but 20? Go back to having individual cooldowns, not a 20 second shared.

Im very skeptical about the new kit refinement. I use 3 kits and change on average every 3 or so seconds. With 20 sec shared cooldown ill have no control over what will pop up, making it very unreliable. Will also miss the extra super elixir i got from it, but since it gets buffed i guess i can live with it.

Except for that it looks like very solid Changes. I dont like turret playsyle to much but glad to see them get a buff finnaly.

I’m glad they improved turrets, especially the bits about cooldown reductions. (It amuses me that their response to Turret Toolbelt skill cooldowns was “Huh, that’s a big number. Let’s just chop that in half.”) I still wish they’d make them scale with Power/Precision, at least, but I can see how that might encounter some difficulties with glass cannon builds using the Rocket Turret.

It’s also neat that they made Kit Refinement more flavorful than just triggering effects existing as part of the kit, I think; I don’t use kits, so eh.

Lite.3819:

Resouled.5614:

Kit Refinement trait: Reworked kit skills to balance their effectiveness. All kit skills are now on a static global recharge (20 seconds). The changes are as follows:

Skills that activate this trait can now activate in midair.

These two properties combine discourages builds that uses lots of kits. Like someone said earlier, we will have to wait and see how this changes playing styles.

I would’nt say it discourages these builds, before when you jumped it would still trigger the cooldown you just got jipped out of the effect. Also if the kit refinement abilitys were on individual cooldowns it would give you more of an advantage than someone that only took 1 kit. I still think the kits need some kind of stun break or evade ability (toolkit has block which is one of the reasons its such an awesomely balanced kit)

Nothing about the ASURA ELIXIR S KITTEN PROBLEM awdfjaopgfhjipghi0paghuiopag

ArcticWillow.2758:

Bummer that they knocked Flamethrower down again. Trading the lame firewall for the double-pop is a huge net loss for the kit.

I know right! I feel like its my fault >.> been doing a lot of tourneys lately and been destroying people with that build! my mistake! i might have hit a dev on the weekend!!

Chaith.8256:

Mif.3471:

Chaith.8256:

Mif.3471:

“Grenade Kit: Equipping this kit drops a mine at the player’s location that deals damage and removes a boon”

So my 1500 range kit drops a bomb at my feet?
Well that’s “useful”…. /facepalm

Not tooo much less useful than a grenade barrage that only hits @ 0 range when you’re at 1500. Heh. At least the mine sticks around.

The grenade barrage did a huge amount of damage. One mine won’t.
It simply isn’t worth the effort.

Effort. It’s probably going to be better as passive, not active ability, really. It seems to be just like free damage, that doesn’t require you to position yourself or anything. If it hits as hard as the throw mine ability, it’s possible to get like 3.6k crits in an offensive HGH grenade/explosion power build. But everything remains to be seen, it might be too early for a snap judgement.

The goal of this patch was to bring really good kit refinements (nade, EG) down, and bad ones up. (Bomb, med-kit, etc.)

I just wish they would be more creative, because one single mine is useless, will not effect the playstyle and will be ignored.

I would of much rather something like “your next grenade attack is 1700 range” for Grenade kit’s refinement.

Flame Blast skill:

No longer double-detonates when the projectile expires naturally.
Turns off Detonate after the flame blast ball is gone.

Little confused here. Does this mean the ball will simply vanish (and not blow up) once it reaches 600 range or will it still detonate on its own once it reaches max range?

Still a shame that the Flamethrower was left untouched apart from fixing the double-detonate; especially after seeing so many threads with good suggestions on improving it.

If it launches opponents it will most certainly not be ignored. Even then, removing a boon is useful regardless.

Shadow.3475:

The thing i wounder about is will the 20sec Global CD make it so you cant use medkit to allways sprint?

Preee much :S! that sucks!

Grenade Kit skill: Grenades no longer require the player to have line of sight of the target area to throw them.

that might be a good change for WvW depending on how it works. Can I now throw nades 1500 even if I can no see top of wall area.

I believe this also applies to us:

Rampage skill:
The Kick skill now lunges towards the target slightly, extending the range.
Players can now use the Throw Boulder skill while moving.

Shadow.3475:

The thing i wounder about is will the 20sec Global CD make it so you cant use medkit to allways sprint?

It’s on kit refinement procs, not on kit changes.

I hate to rain on folks parade here but these patch notes are pretty terrible. I see no mention of increased turret survivability or better turret targetting, which are the main issues with turrets. The damage is so laughably bad in any even that the 50% increase on many of the turrets will not be noticed. Kit refinement has been reduced to a series of interesting abilities but the 20 second cooldown makes it almost impossible to plan their usage if you are switching kits, 1000nades is effectivley dead. Elixir U is still unusable due to the randomness and is outclassed by supply drop in almost every way (except underwater I suppose). Everything else is a minor bug fix. The ONLY really great change I see is the removal of LOS on grenade kits which will make them much more useful in WvW siege situations. But other than that this patch really doesn’t change anything useful and is again far more nerf than buff.

Kit Refinement changes = pretty awesome. Not happy about the 20sec CD but since the new spells are better now I guess it’s needed(?). Gonna miss my insta-Super Elixir on swap but the glue stream is gonna make the EG the master of evasion wep.

Will say the Grenade Kit spell change doesn’t make much sense. I know they wanted to nerf the 100nades build a bit but a mine? Doesn’t work thematically since we have mines and bombs already.

Turrets got some serious love. More damage, shorter cooldowns. Like it.

My only wish is that some gadgets got their cooldowns reduced. Forces us to take kits or turrets (which is better than it was as only kits). 3 gadgets is not viable with such long cooldowns. Oh well, can’t have everything. And we got a lot.

And to the poster who said a lot of our changes are bug fixes veiled as improvements…bug fixes are improvements. Now we can rely on those skills/traits to work correctly.

Aveneo.2068:

Flame Blast skill:

No longer double-detonates when the projectile expires naturally.
Turns off Detonate after the flame blast ball is gone.

Little confused here. Does this mean the ball will simply vanish (and not blow up) once it reaches 600 range or will it still detonate on its own once it reaches max range?

Still a shame that the Flamethrower was left untouched apart from fixing the double-detonate; especially after seeing so many threads with good suggestions on improving it.

It’s to fix a bug where Detonate would still appear on your bar if Flame Blast hit a wall or something.

It will still detonate at 600 range.

amiable.4823:

I hate to rain on folks parade here but these patch notes are pretty terrible. I see no mention of increased turret survivability or better turret targetting, which are the main issues with turrets. The damage is so laughably bad in any even that the 50% increase on many of the turrets will not be noticed. Kit refinement has been reduced to a series of interesting abilities but the 20 second cooldown makes it almost impossible to plan their usage if you are switching kits, 1000nades is effectivley dead. Elixir U is still unusable due to the randomness and is outclassed by supply drop in almost every way (except underwater I suppose). Everything else is a minor bug fix. The ONLY really great change I see is the removal of LOS on grenade kits which will make them much more useful in WvW siege situations. But other than that this patch really doesn’t change anything useful and is again far more nerf than buff.

Agreed.

Everything is either a bug fix, or a buff that isn’t big enough to stuff no one cares about.

Aveneo.2068:

Flame Blast skill:

No longer double-detonates when the projectile expires naturally.
Turns off Detonate after the flame blast ball is gone.

Little confused here. Does this mean the ball will simply vanish (and not blow up) once it reaches 600 range or will it still detonate on its own once it reaches max range?

Still a shame that the Flamethrower was left untouched apart from fixing the double-detonate; especially after seeing so many threads with good suggestions on improving it.

I think it will still blow up at the end of its path, but only once.

amiable.4823:

I hate to rain on folks parade here but these patch notes are pretty terrible. I see no mention of increased turret survivability or better turret targetting, which are the main issues with turrets. The damage is so laughably bad in any even that the 50% increase on many of the turrets will not be noticed. Kit refinement has been reduced to a series of interesting abilities but the 20 second cooldown makes it almost impossible to plan their usage if you are switching kits, 1000nades is effectivley dead. Elixir U is still unusable due to the randomness and is outclassed by supply drop in almost every way (except underwater I suppose). Everything else is a minor bug fix. The ONLY really great change I see is the removal of LOS on grenade kits which will make them much more useful in WvW siege situations. But other than that this patch really doesn’t change anything useful and is again far more nerf than buff.

?

Elixir U is a utility skill, not an elite skill. You’re thinking of Elixir X. And it’s another stunbreaker on our bar now for elixir-spec Engineers. PPHGH just got even better.

Furthermore, turret survivability isn’t an issue given that half the reason you use them is to detonate them. I’m not sure if the buffs to the Flame Turret are enough, but the Thumper Turret, Rifle Turret, and Net Turret got some serious love.

One patch won’t fix all our problems, but this is definitely a very big step in the right direction. Relax.

WOAH kit refinement got some serious work wow.

Im really interested in seeing how it works. we get MORE reflects?! hmmmm, i dont like a 20 second cool down though.

aint even mad about the nerfs as the one thing that annoyed the oblivion out of me got addressed the Grenades LoS i hope i no longer have to climb walls to attack players in wvw.

Grenade Kit skill: Grenades no longer require the player to have line of sight of the target area to throw them.

I hope its as it reads. In that case grenades become awesome in Keep defense from the walls.

Malignar.6905:

Didn’t see anything about non kit builds. Are they still not viable?

Resouled.5614:

Automated Response trait: Grants immunity to conditions when the inflictor has over 100% duration.
From the looks of it Automated Response trait was reworked to fight only WvWers.

Removed Quickening Zephyr from the base elixir.
Removed Veil from the toss mechanic.
Now casts instantly and breaks stuns.
Much needed change, most people wouldn’t notice Elixir U is underpar compared to other quickness utilities due to the solo reason of it not being instant cast.

Stabilized Armor trait: Reduces incoming damage by 5% while endurance is full.
Wait, was it not doing this already??

Blowtorch skill: No longer displays “miss” on attacks that connect at medium and far distances
Visual fix

Phineas Poe.3018:

Elixir U is a utility skill, not an elite skill. You’re thinking of Elixir X. And it’s another stunbreaker on our bar now for elixir-spec Engineers. PPHGH just got even better.

Furthermore, turret survivability isn’t an issue given that half the reason you use them is to detonate them. I’m not sure if the buffs to the Flame Turret are enough, but the Thumper Turret, Rifle Turret, and Net Turret got some serious love.

One patch won’t fix all our problems, but this is definitely a very big step in the right direction. Relax.

Ack right about elixir u, got htose swithed in my head for some reason. Still the blanket nerf to swfitness hits Elixir U pretty kitten hard.

Mif.3471:

amiable.4823:

I hate to rain on folks parade here but these patch notes are pretty terrible. I see no mention of increased turret survivability or better turret targetting, which are the main issues with turrets. The damage is so laughably bad in any even that the 50% increase on many of the turrets will not be noticed. Kit refinement has been reduced to a series of interesting abilities but the 20 second cooldown makes it almost impossible to plan their usage if you are switching kits, 1000nades is effectivley dead. Elixir U is still unusable due to the randomness and is outclassed by supply drop in almost every way (except underwater I suppose). Everything else is a minor bug fix. The ONLY really great change I see is the removal of LOS on grenade kits which will make them much more useful in WvW siege situations. But other than that this patch really doesn’t change anything useful and is again far more nerf than buff.

Agreed.

Everything is either a bug fix, or a buff that isn’t big enough to stuff no one cares about.

Yep. Nerf engineers again, while fixing stuff that shouldn’t be broken in the first place. Yay patch day!

amiable.4823:

Elixir U is still unusable due to the randomness and is outclassed by supply drop in almost every way (except underwater I suppose).

Why randomness? Both effects you can get while tossing the elixir reflect (oder at least suck up) projectiles – so no matter which one you get, at least you don’t get hit, right?

except for Grenade Kit skill: Grenades no longer require the player to have line of sight of the target area to throw them.

I cant see anything that changes much in my build ha how disappointing, I was expecting buffs to other areas like flamers.

The grenade kit refinement is useless and going to be a pain, If i could turn it off and only have the bomb one I would but this stops me swapping between kits to use my normal skills before the bomb move comes in

Lame :/

Last patch I was mad after reading it.

Now I can only be freaking happy. Sure they totaly changed kit refinement purpose, it’s now more of a single/dual kit user traits. But the skills from KR are great and original. I’m personaly a fan of super speed, and I’m curious to see how long it will last. 2 sec? Prolly not 5 sec like the real one, it would be OP on a 20 sec cooldown.

I’m also curious to see how the medkit will works out. Since we have to constant spam it for speed, Are we going to enter the fight with our KR on cooldown already?

Turret buff are greats, would have been cool to have lower cooldown on the turret itself, or better traits, but I won’t cry about it, they made great change.

I’m looking forward to test my static discharge build with the new surprise shot/turret rifle.

Happy about the quickness buff also!

No culling, longer reveal, quickness nerf.

Nice

With so many change, I don’t think we can whine about lack of attention anymore.

Thanks Arena Net!

Moddo.7105:

Grenade Kit skill: Grenades no longer require the player to have line of sight of the target area to throw them.

that might be a good change for WvW depending on how it works. Can I now throw nades 1500 even if I can no see top of wall area.

Grenades still will collide and explode on collosion during their ark flight. However removing LOS, allows to drop them down from the walls without standing on the ledge – since grenades fly in ark and if you see ground, you can trow them over the ledge. Very very useful if works like that.

Preacher.9018:

Moddo.7105:

Grenade Kit skill: Grenades no longer require the player to have line of sight of the target area to throw them.

that might be a good change for WvW depending on how it works. Can I now throw nades 1500 even if I can no see top of wall area.

Grenades still will collide and explode on collosion during their ark flight. However removing LOS, allows to drop them down from the walls without standing on the ledge – since grenades fly in ark and if you see ground, you can trow them over the ledge. Very very useful if works like that.

What’s important here is if it can hit siege placed back on walls. If it can grenade engineers just became completely indispensable in WvW.

Kardiamond.6952:

I’m personaly a fan of super speed, and I’m curious to see how long it will last. 2 sec? Prolly not 5 sec like the real one, it would be OP on a 20 sec cooldown.

I like that you are actually grateful for lots of positive changes. Me too.

But just to be a downer (lawl), I’m not sure I’m in the same category as you when it comes to thinking Super Speed is good.

Super speed does not stack with swiftness, and in combat (with speedy kits on) all it does:

Make you run at out of combat speed for 2 seconds. You will cover like 100 extra distance. Out of combat with swiftness? It still would trigger, give you nothing, and put KR on cooldown for your next fight. That’s not cool with me, tbh. I will avoid using toolkit KR like the plague.

amiable.4823:

Ack right about elixir u, got htose swithed in my head for some reason. Still the blanket nerf to swfitness hits Elixir U pretty kitten hard.

Meh. That affects everybody, and hurts other classes far more than us, so I cannot take it personally.

They’ve basically eliminated the randomness of Toss Elixir U so that you only get Smoke Screen or Wall of Reflection. They are different combo fields but they both block projectiles, so you now know what you get out if it every time you use it.

They’ve also removed Quickening Zephyr, which is nice.

Mehknic.2904:

Elixir U is the quickness elixir. Elixir X is the elite.

Yeah I know, completely mixed that up in my head.

amiable.4823:

What’s important here is if it can hit siege placed back on walls. If it can grenade engineers just became completely indispensable in WvW.

Yeah, it all depends on the arc of grenades. I think it most cases it would collide with the wall before it reaches the siege weapons back due to the nature of the arc, but I will gladly test that in few hours.

On the other side defending with grenades will work for sure as there is nothing they can collide with (<evil grin>).

Well, i just lost my condition removals with the kit refinement nerf. Oh, sure, they buffed the super elixir…but you can cast just one of them now. They buffed elixir U…and nerfed quickness. They buffed turrets damage…and they still are made of paper, that means, they won’t survive more than a couple of seconds anyway.
And the kit refinement changes don’t seem that good to me. Especially since they aren’t telling the duration on some of those. Cause probably it is very low.
Guess the only nice thing there is is that i can skip that trait entirely now.

amiable.4823:

Preacher.9018:

Moddo.7105:

Grenade Kit skill: Grenades no longer require the player to have line of sight of the target area to throw them.

that might be a good change for WvW depending on how it works. Can I now throw nades 1500 even if I can no see top of wall area.

Grenades still will collide and explode on collosion during their ark flight. However removing LOS, allows to drop them down from the walls without standing on the ledge – since grenades fly in ark and if you see ground, you can trow them over the ledge. Very very useful if works like that.

What’s important here is if it can hit siege placed back on walls. If it can grenade engineers just became completely indispensable in WvW.

If the wall ledge gets in the way of the arc, it won’t matter too much. They’ll just explode where they would have before.

Can you even get your camera up that high? I never seem to be able to.

50% nerf to quickening sucks too :/ that was my defense in duels ha

I am definitely pleasantly surprised. I may have to login to check this out sometime today. I love the utility on the kit refinement, that does look like it’s much better and will make for a few better builds.

I also like that they changed some of the elixirs.

Mehknic.2904:

amiable.4823:

Preacher.9018:

Moddo.7105:

Grenade Kit skill: Grenades no longer require the player to have line of sight of the target area to throw them.

that might be a good change for WvW depending on how it works. Can I now throw nades 1500 even if I can no see top of wall area.

Grenades still will collide and explode on collosion during their ark flight. However removing LOS, allows to drop them down from the walls without standing on the ledge – since grenades fly in ark and if you see ground, you can trow them over the ledge. Very very useful if works like that.

What’s important here is if it can hit siege placed back on walls. If it can grenade engineers just became completely indispensable in WvW.

If the wall ledge gets in the way of the arc, it won’t matter too much. They’ll just explode where they would have before.

Can you even get your camera up that high? I never seem to be able to.

On occasion if the moons align (I was able to get a few tricky shots off with mortar), but before it was always a red circle, now it will be a green circle… I have no idea until I get to test it when I get home from work. Being able to drop grenades on rams while you are safely on the back part of the wall is going to be pretty huge though. Just watch those reflection fields!

Phoenix.3416:

50% nerf to quickening sucks too :/ that was my defense in duels ha

Yeah, but it’s a hard nerf to the warrior cheese specs and takes Time Warp down a notch, even if it is still the best elite in the game.

Kardiamond.6952:

Turret buff are greats, would have been cool to have lower cooldown on the turret itself, or better traits, but I won’t cry about it, they made great change.

They lowered the CD on rocket turret from 60 to 50, and flame from 40 to 25.

TBH this is probably where they should sit on their CD’s. so i’m happy with it.

Linc.6834:

Lite.3819:

Resouled.5614:

Kit Refinement trait: Reworked kit skills to balance their effectiveness. All kit skills are now on a static global recharge (20 seconds). The changes are as follows:

Skills that activate this trait can now activate in midair.

These two properties combine discourages builds that uses lots of kits. Like someone said earlier, we will have to wait and see how this changes playing styles.

I would’nt say it discourages these builds, before when you jumped it would still trigger the cooldown you just got jipped out of the effect.

(I’ve personally never have that happened to me before, and I’ve been kit master since betas.)

Before, Kit based build would purposely “Jump” just to not trigger the trait, when they want to use a certain kit. Now instead of “giving you a chance” to not trigger the trait you “will” activate it regardless if you jump.

It’s like instead of 30% of dodging the bullet, it’s now 0%, enjoy.

Static global recharge (20 seconds) is a huge nerf no matter how you look at it, similar to Evasive Arcana’s 10s global cooldown.

amiable.4823:

Mehknic.2904:

amiable.4823:

Preacher.9018:

Moddo.7105:

Grenade Kit skill: Grenades no longer require the player to have line of sight of the target area to throw them.

that might be a good change for WvW depending on how it works. Can I now throw nades 1500 even if I can no see top of wall area.

Grenades still will collide and explode on collosion during their ark flight. However removing LOS, allows to drop them down from the walls without standing on the ledge – since grenades fly in ark and if you see ground, you can trow them over the ledge. Very very useful if works like that.

What’s important here is if it can hit siege placed back on walls. If it can grenade engineers just became completely indispensable in WvW.

If the wall ledge gets in the way of the arc, it won’t matter too much. They’ll just explode where they would have before.

Can you even get your camera up that high? I never seem to be able to.

On occasion if the moons align (I was able to get a few tricky shots off with mortar), but before it was always a red circle, now it will be a green circle… I have no idea until I get to test it when I get home from work. Being able to drop grenades on rams while you are safely on the back part of the wall is going to be pretty huge though. Just watch those reflection fields!

Oh, absolutely. Keep defense is going to be safer for us. Not that we needed much help there.

So…Engineers…this is US RIGHT NOW…

Thank you, ANet, for giving us some love.

Mehknic.2904:

Phoenix.3416:

50% nerf to quickening sucks too :/ that was my defense in duels ha

Yeah, but it’s a hard nerf to the warrior cheese specs and takes Time Warp down a notch, even if it is still the best elite in the game.

Ya the warrior forum is pretty upset right now. Their precious GS burst just got hurt bad. Not sure what they’re gonna do now.

As an engineer this is how I’m feeling right now
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EfhAFA2yFE&list=PL3E21CC88E0F0F146&index=164

Penguin.5197:

“Stabilized Armor trait: Reduces incoming damage by 5% while endurance is full”
Isnt that how it has always worked already?

I thought the same thing. I guess it was a bug not yet identified by the community! LOL!

Penguin.5197:

“Elixikittenll:
Removed Quickening Zephyr from the base elixir.
Removed Veil from the toss mechanic.
Now casts instantly and breaks stuns.”

lol kitten

Also cheers for so many bug fixes ^^

A 5 minute time limit on turrets? :/
And 20 secs for kit refinement is a lot..we’ll see how this works out…

Ya i love how there swear filter caught there own notes.

Ejiofor.4801:

So…Engineers…this is US RIGHT NOW…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ykittenpl8yXzk

Thank you, ANet, for giving us some love.

That link is broken and contains “kitten”. Hope I’m not missing something there.

Ejiofor.4801:

v=Ykittenpl8yXzk

LOL. Forum censor filter…