Guild Wars 2

Nilix I completely agree with you and I thank you for looking at my proof. And the people go through the only two conditions removal bug is because they destroy their healing turret before the cleansing burst animation is done. I also agree how the healing turret should heal for short bursts, but I disagree how the regen was lowered heavily. If the regen would be in quick bursts, it should be higher. This would promote people to stay in the healing turret’s range, and not picking it up after cleansing burst.

Advent Leader.1083:

I think the 50% reduction was a bug/balance fix, because it stacks, not increases duration, where regeneration was supposed to increase duration per application, not stack.

If you are talking about overall Healing Turret healing output, there was no change to our overall healing output using the Healing Turret (in fact an increase considering the additional AOE healing). There is a small reduction in uptime on Regeneration which is negligible to most people because Regeneration is easy to find in a group.

If you are talking about the boon Regeneration being reduced, this is incorrect. To be clear Regeneration is a boon that behaves the same way no matter where it came from. It always stacks in duration, the Healing Turret was never different in this respect. In terms of Regeneration, this update did nothing but change the duration and application frequency of Regeneration from the Healing Turret. It did not change the way Regeneration behaves, it still heals the same set amount whether it came from a Healing Turret, Regenerating Mist, or a Necro mark. (adjusted slightly for healing power, but it is the same boon it always was).

Other buffs that apply a regeneration that do stack with the boon named Regeneration are few and far between, and usually are identified (Ele in Water attunement, Engi Backpack Regenerator, etc).

Adamantium.3682:

Advent Leader.1083:

I think the 50% reduction was a bug/balance fix, because it stacks, not increases duration, where regeneration was supposed to increase duration per application, not stack.

If you are talking about overall Healing Turret healing output, there was no change to our overall healing output using the Healing Turret (in fact an increase considering the additional AOE healing). There is a small reduction in uptime on Regeneration which is negligible to most people because Regeneration is easy to find in a group.

If you are talking about the boon Regeneration being reduced, this is incorrect. To be clear Regeneration is a boon that behaves the same way no matter where it came from. It always stacks in duration, the Healing Turret was never different in this respect. In terms of Regeneration, this update did nothing but change the duration and application frequency of Regeneration from the Healing Turret. It did not change the way Regeneration behaves, it still heals the same set amount whether it came from a Healing Turret, Regenerating Mist, or a Necro mark. (adjusted slightly for healing power, but it is the same boon it always was).

Other buffs that apply a regeneration that do stack with the boon named Regeneration are few and far between, and usually are identified (Ele in Water attunement, Engi Backpack Regenerator, etc).

There was a time where the tooltip was misleading. I think it’s this one that was fixed, but for the internal mechanics, I really don’t have a pre-post comparison to build upon, since I can’t get the pre-patch values concretely.

OTOH, I agree with the heal turret now being improved with regards to group healing, as compared to the previous self healing.

Adamantium.3682:

Advent Leader.1083:

I think the 50% reduction was a bug/balance fix, because it stacks, not increases duration, where regeneration was supposed to increase duration per application, not stack.

If you are talking about overall Healing Turret healing output, there was no change to our overall healing output using the Healing Turret (in fact an increase considering the additional AOE healing). There is a small reduction in uptime on Regeneration which is negligible to most people because Regeneration is easy to find in a group.

If you are talking about the boon Regeneration being reduced, this is incorrect. To be clear Regeneration is a boon that behaves the same way no matter where it came from. It always stacks in duration, the Healing Turret was never different in this respect. In terms of Regeneration, this update did nothing but change the duration and application frequency of Regeneration from the Healing Turret. It did not change the way Regeneration behaves, it still heals the same set amount whether it came from a Healing Turret, Regenerating Mist, or a Necro mark. (adjusted slightly for healing power, but it is the same boon it always was).

Other buffs that apply a regeneration that do stack with the boon named Regeneration are few and far between, and usually are identified (Ele in Water attunement, Engi Backpack Regenerator, etc).

this Regeneration is a boon and scales independently from the actual healing skill granting it. It is still based off Healing Power and will scale with it accordingly, which in this patch has not been changed.

Oh and please read the bug forum it has been recorded that the tool-tip to Cleaning Burst was incorrect, prior to this patch. (hint: it’s on the first page)

All the arguing aside…I did more tournaments tonight using the healing turret in my build, was working great again. Changes are good in my opinion.

PWNcakesAndROFLs.8263:

Oh and please read the bug forum it has been recorded that the tool-tip to Cleaning Burst was incorrect, prior to this patch. (hint: it’s on the first page)

I know it was incorrect, I’m not the one that uses the wiki as proof something was working right.

So you guys are arguing about the wiki, but not showing any proof of the information being wrong.

PWNcakesAndROFLs.8263:

Adamantium.3682:

PWNcakesAndROFLs.8263:

Oh and please read the bug forum it has been recorded that the tool-tip to Cleaning Burst was incorrect, prior to this patch. (hint: it’s on the first page)

I know it was incorrect, I’m not the one that uses the wiki as proof something was working right.

Sorry that wasn’t aimed directly at you, but it just goes to show how lousy the upkeep is on that wiki. At least the forums was updated 2 months in comparison to who-knows-when the wiki was.

Gotcha, didn’t mean to come off as trying to prove myself about it. This thread has riled me up a bit.

Usefulness promotes staying in range. Like Time Warp. The duration is low, and the CD is high, but the effect is potent. Immediate, unfiltered destruction of opposing forces. When you see that bubble, you get in it and you wreck faces. However, potency requires balance. Lengthening the regen wouldn’t make me want to stay in range. If I gained 10s of regen every 3s, I can sit in there for 10s, get 30s of duration and then leave. If I got 10s of regen every 10s, I’d sit there for 2s, get 10s, and get out. Combat requires people to be mobile. There has to be reason for me to want to stay in range.

The way that regen, and healing in general, scales against damage, it’s honestly not worth it for me to save my healing turret. Attempting to heal my turret requires being in melee range of it, I can heal it for 500 every Smack swing, it can heal me for 2000 every 15 when overcharged, + 2-300 every 1 from regen. But everyone else is hitting it, and me, for 1000 with AOE at range. Damage simply does more for less, and the fact that it’s one of the lowest health of the turrets doesn’t help at all. If they wanted the healing turret to matter, it would need “LONGEVITY” or mobility… something.

They could completely remove the regen and replace it with a flat 1000 heal and 3s protection instead to every ally in range every 4s. That would be super useful. But it wouldn’t mean anything if it couldn’t stand up for 2.

I have 2 remarks with this all:

1. the new mechanics actually promote to deploy – overcharge -detonate every 20 seconds, ignoring the fact that the overcharge has a lower cooldown of 15 seconds.
This goes against the intention of the dev’s, but it simply is the only reliable way to use the new healing turret.

2. Leaving the turret out and overcharging every 15 seconds sounds good on paper, but it will never be viable as long as the turret dies in seconds!
The risk of leaving it out with any enemy near is simply too big.

Second patch they buff turrets, and second patch they forget to fix the most important issues: turret targeting and turret weakness to aoe.

Simple comparison over the course of 1 minute fight:

A. Deploy, leave turret out and overcharge every 15 seconds.

You get:

- 1 personal heal of deploy [2580 at zero healing]
- 4 aoe heals from overcharge every 15 seconds [2580 × 4 = 10320]
- 4 aoe cleanses of 2 conditions from overcharge every 15 seconds
- 4 regen from overcharge
- onl 1 use of the toolbelt regen because your turret is out and toolbelt is blocked by ‘detonate turret’ tooltip
- 4 water fields of 5 seconds (if not bugged)

B Deploy-overcharge-detonate

You get:

- 3 personal heals from deploying every 20 seconds [2580 × 3 = 7740]
- 3 instead of 4 aoe heals from overcharging every 20 seconds only [2580 × 3 = 7740]
- 3 instead of 4 aoe cleanses of 2 conditions
- 3 aoe heals from detonating the turret in the water field [1320 × 3 = 3960]
- at least 2 uses of the toolbelt since it’s never blocked (3 uses if 20 points in Tools)
- 3 instead of 4 water fields of 5 seconds

Conclusion:

you and your group lose 1 aoe heal from overcharge, and 1 cleanisng of 2 conditions if you detonate each time.
But your group gains 3 aoe blast finisher heals from detonating, and at least 1 use of the toolbelt.
For your own healing you get 2 more big heals from deploying 2 more times, and of course you benefit from the group healing as well.
Everybody loses one cleansing of 2 conditions if detonated each time, that is the only clear loss.
And one less water field, which can be important depending on the group and ammount of blast finishers.
Most engineer blast finishers have cooldowns longer than 15 seconds (only mine not if traited) so it’s unlikely you would use all 4 water fields to thier full potential each 15 seconds. This entirely depends upon the fight and the group, and what blast finishers you all can spare to ‘waste’ on the heal.

Everybody also loses 1 regen from the overcharge, but gains at least 1 from the toolbelt. I find it a bit too complicated to calculate all those different regens, but it’s not hard to see that the toolbelt regen beats the overcharge regen. And that’s not counting the 2 regens you get from deploying 3 times instead of just once…
So even just looking at that difference, the method of detonating immediately wins.

edit: Raijinn below mentioned accelarant packed turrets which of course would give 3 knockbacks in that minute for defense.
To that I would add that leaving the turret out means it stays right there, and so must the group. Only if you detonate each time immediately, you can remain reletively mobile!
I find this mobility extremely important myself.

What about accelerant packed turrets? I’m more interested in a aoe knockback every 20 seconds aka everytime I heal lol

Kimbald.2697:

Simple comparison over the course of 1 minute fight:

A. Deploy, leave turret out and overcharge every 15 seconds.

You get:

- 1 personal heal of deploy [2580 at zero healing]
- 4 aoe heals from overcharge every 15 seconds [2580 × 4 = 10320]
- 4 aoe cleanses of 2 conditions from overcharge every 15 seconds
- 4 regen from overcharge
- onl 1 use of the toolbelt regen because your turret is out and toolbelt is blocked by ‘detonate turret’ tooltip
- 4 water fields of 5 seconds (if not bugged)

B Deploy-overcharge-detonate

You get:

- 3 personal heals from deploying every 20 seconds [2580 × 3 = 7740]
- 3 instead of 4 aoe heals from overcharging every 20 seconds only [2580 × 3 = 7740]
- 3 instead of 4 aoe cleanses of 2 conditions
- 3 aoe heals from detonating the turret in the water field [1320 × 3 = 3960]
- at least 2 uses of the toolbelt since it’s never blocked (3 uses if 20 points in Tools)
- 3 instead of 4 water fields of 5 seconds

Conclusion:

you and your group lose 1 aoe heal from overcharge, and 1 cleanisng of 2 conditions if you detonate each time.
But your group gains 3 aoe blast finisher heals from detonating, and at least 1 use of the toolbelt.
For your own healing you get 2 more big heals from deploying 2 more times, and of course you benefit from the group healing as well.
Everybody loses one cleansing of 2 conditions if detonated each time, that is the only clear loss.
And one less water field, which can be important depending on the group and ammount of blast finishers.
Most engineer blast finishers have cooldowns longer than 15 seconds (only mine not if traited) so it’s unlikely you would use all 4 water fields to thier full potential each 15 seconds. This entirely depends upon the fight and the group, and what blast finishers you all can spare to ‘waste’ on the heal.

Thanks for this helpful post. It seems its better to leave out for more party-wide support versus detonating for a more personal gain. I really like the clear distinction to know when and how to utilize this awesome skill!

Raijinn.9065:

What about accelerant packed turrets? I’m more interested in a aoe knockback every 20 seconds aka everytime I heal lol

this depends on the situation, but I fully agree with you myself.
I didn’t calculate it since it has nothing to do with pure healing. Except that knocked back enemies hit less hard in melee

Kimbald.2697:

Raijinn.9065:

What about accelerant packed turrets? I’m more interested in a aoe knockback every 20 seconds aka everytime I heal lol

this depends on the situation, but I fully agree with you myself.
I didn’t calculate it since it has nothing to do with pure healing. Except that knocked back enemies hit less hard in melee

Apparently Explosive Powder works as well for turret detonation, which makes me wonder if the other explosive traits work as well and how much utility you can pack into this turret.

PWNcakesAndROFLs.8263:

Kimbald.2697:

Raijinn.9065:

What about accelerant packed turrets? I’m more interested in a aoe knockback every 20 seconds aka everytime I heal lol

this depends on the situation, but I fully agree with you myself.
I didn’t calculate it since it has nothing to do with pure healing. Except that knocked back enemies hit less hard in melee

Apparently Explosive Powder works as well for turret detonation, which makes me wonder if the other explosive traits work as well and how much utility you can pack into this turret.

Would be great if forcefull explosives was ‘explosions’ and not just bomb and mines

The problem with Explosive Powder is that it is a Master Trait, so only available at 20 points in Explosives.
This is where you need Accelerant-Packed turrets, or it’s not working anyhow…
So are you really going to go 30 points in Explosives to get this 10% on the explosion? Turrets eat up enough points as it is… I personally can’t spare 10 more for a spot where I could take the smoke bomb on stun, or of course: grenadier.

For theorycrafting this would lead to a 30/0/30/0/10 turret build.
Or for max damage: forget deployable turrets and get sitting duck and net turret for stacking vulnerability… 30/10/30/0/0

Kimbald.2697:

PWNcakesAndROFLs.8263:

Kimbald.2697:

Raijinn.9065:

What about accelerant packed turrets? I’m more interested in a aoe knockback every 20 seconds aka everytime I heal lol

this depends on the situation, but I fully agree with you myself.
I didn’t calculate it since it has nothing to do with pure healing. Except that knocked back enemies hit less hard in melee

Apparently Explosive Powder works as well for turret detonation, which makes me wonder if the other explosive traits work as well and how much utility you can pack into this turret.

Would be great if forcefull explosives was ‘explosions’ and not just bomb and mines

The problem with Explosive Powder is that it is a Master Trait, so only available at 20 points in Explosives.
This is where you need Accelerant-Packed turrets, or it’s not working anyhow…
So are you really going to go 30 points in Explosives to get this 10% on the explosion? Turrets eat up enough points as it is… I personally can’t spare 10 more for a spot where I could take the smoke bomb on stun, or of course: grenadier.

For theorycrafting this would lead to a 30/0/30/0/10 turret build.
Or for max damage: forget deployable turrets and get sitting duck and net turret for stacking vulnerability… 30/10/30/0/0

Well, if forceful explosives did works for turret detonate then the synergy would be perfect with accelerant-packed, which is probably better for sPvP/WvW, but with actual working mechanics that we have; the synergy between flat-damage multipliers, like explosive powder and vulnerability (also a damage multiplier), it works great with other traits that also give vulnerability.

TBH, I’m not sure if i’d bring damage utility on a heal though, seems a bit counter-productive, though it could be niche; which as Engis, we accel in.

nakoda.4213:

condition removal on a 15-20 second cooldown?

“on demand” ish water field?

purely aesthetic?

My traited healing elixir also gives me condition removed on a 20 second cooldown. It also gives me a heal that is more than twice as large with the exact same cooldown (20 seconds for traited elixir, 20 seconds for turret. 15 if I insta-pickup). It also gives me a 10 second regen compared to my turret’s 3. It also gives me, on top of all of that, another buff.

So, yea… water field with turret vs 2x bigger heal, 3x longer regen, same condition removal and an extra buff. Hard choice there…

Tolmos.8395:

nakoda.4213:

condition removal on a 15-20 second cooldown?

“on demand” ish water field?

purely aesthetic?

My traited healing elixir also gives me condition removed on a 20 second cooldown. It also gives me a heal that is more than twice as large with the exact same cooldown (20 seconds for traited elixir, 20 seconds for turret. 15 if I insta-pickup). It also gives me a 10 second regen compared to my turret’s 3. It also gives me, on top of all of that, another buff.

So, yea… water field with turret vs 2x bigger heal, 3x longer regen, same condition removal and an extra buff. Hard choice there…

How about using them both? The regen stacks on top of one another.

Tolmos.8395:

nakoda.4213:

condition removal on a 15-20 second cooldown?

“on demand” ish water field?

purely aesthetic?

My traited healing elixir also gives me condition removed on a 20 second cooldown. It also gives me a heal that is more than twice as large with the exact same cooldown (20 seconds for traited elixir, 20 seconds for turret. 15 if I insta-pickup). It also gives me a 10 second regen compared to my turret’s 3. It also gives me, on top of all of that, another buff.

So, yea… water field with turret vs 2x bigger heal, 3x longer regen, same condition removal and an extra buff. Hard choice there…

You are talking about a traited elixir versus the healing turret.

From the state of the Game I gathered that the main intention for the healing turret change was to open up other builds.
In other words: when you do NOT go for 409 trait, or elixir traits in general, than the healing turret provides almost simular effects without spending traits on it.

Not saying this makes the healing turret better, just saying you shouldn’t compare to traited elixir H, since the goal was to give something to those engineers who didn’t do that…

Phil.6123:

For everyone that wants to see the proof. The before and after patch
Before: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Healing_Turret&oldid=537306
After: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Turret
The regen is lowered BAD

1040/8=130
390/3=130

Edit Also if the overcharge hits 5 toons in need of healing that’s over 12k worth of heals every 15 seconds?

The new healing Turret is cool, and very strong for team purpose. But right now turret builds are broken, our Invention Trait (III),(X) and (XII) aren’t working anymore (only works for supply crate) and the hitbox is also totaly wrong. I did some dongeons recently and my turrets were getting hit by AoEs even when they were out of the red circle.

Right now it is just unplayable with my Turret Engineer so I’ll get back to my Warrior until our turrets finaly get a fix…

PS : Condition removal before patch with Cleansing Wave has always been 2 conditions cleanse, not all. The tooltip was just wrong.

I see turrets only working in fights who do not have:

- too many wrong targets that the turret can waste shots on
- much aoe that destroys all turrets put down in seconds
- mobs that attack turrets and kill them in seconds
- the need to move around much

That leaves:
- standing behind a door in WvW before the enemy gets inside
- small fights against profs with no pets, and no automatic aoe or cleave

Turrets are pretty good for point defending, but no turret build can match a HGH build I fear.
Turrets are also nice for duelling, but again: likely not as strong as HGH…

Imho, turrets still lack survivability. Especially in PvE/WvsW. And this greatly impact healing turrets’ heals, cause they are based on the assumption that it will survive.
Such a thing is a mere illusion in pve. The low range requires it to be near the people fighting, but that also means being right near enemies and aoe.
And often a single aoe or a couple of attacks can obliterate it.

Tolmos.8395:

nakoda.4213:

condition removal on a 15-20 second cooldown?

“on demand” ish water field?

purely aesthetic?

My traited healing elixir also gives me condition removed on a 20 second cooldown. It also gives me a heal that is more than twice as large with the exact same cooldown (20 seconds for traited elixir, 20 seconds for turret. 15 if I insta-pickup). It also gives me a 10 second regen compared to my turret’s 3. It also gives me, on top of all of that, another buff.

So, yea… water field with turret vs 2x bigger heal, 3x longer regen, same condition removal and an extra buff. Hard choice there…

You mean a Elixir that requires traits to be comparable in function, gives you 3x the regen 1/3 of the time, and only benefits yourself vs a Turret that supplies a 3s Water Field, AOE Regen, can have a similar healing strength to the Elixir if you learn how to instantly overcharge it after dropping, provides another Water Field in its Toolbelt slot, does all of this with no trait support, and is probably due for another buff since it doesn’t actually promote keeping it out on the field as much as they hoped.

The choice is actually really easy when you think about it.

I messed around with a turret spec last night in WvW and PVE. Turrets are still too weak, but its possible to throw down healing turret and 3 others, overcharge it, then blow up all 4 in the water field for some really good aoe heals. Really helps when everyone has to fall back if you have some set up in the background, the stragglers get some nice heals and blows back the advancing enemy.

Also, I had lots of fun dropping turrets behind me when running from large groups of people. I can just imagine the thoughts of my opponents as I keep detonating accelerant packed turrets in their path

Halo.1679:

I messed around with a turret spec last night in WvW and PVE. Turrets are still too weak, but its possible to throw down healing turret and 3 others, overcharge it, then blow up all 4 in the water field for some really good aoe heals. Really helps when everyone has to fall back if you have some set up in the background, the stragglers get some nice heals and blows back the advancing enemy.

Also, I had lots of fun dropping turrets behind me when running from large groups of people. I can just imagine the thoughts of my opponents as I keep detonating accelerant packed turrets in their path

isn’t this basically a healing turret and using the others as mines on long cooldowns?

If turrets are considered viable because we can only blow them up before they die anyhow… than something is seriously wrong in my book.

In the scenario you describe, any one turret should be replaced by throw mine for added boon stripping, and the other skill slot for Bomb Kit for BoB and added fields from the bombs.
The main issue with this would be: why trait accelerant packed turrets just for healing turret?
Picking up this trait makes people feel like they should use more turrets.
But in what you describe, the exact same build would be better of with throw mine and bomb kit. As it happens: the trait before Accelerant packed turrets could increase botht their ranges to something way better than a turret detonate anyhow.

Turrets need changes so they can be used in big fights WITHOUT having to be detonated the first second!
90% less aoe damage or something, as long as direct attacks can take them out, aoe should not.

So we all agree that the healing turret needs a buff so that it’s survivability is higher and that the amount of heal that the regen gives be buffed and not the length of time the regen lasts. If these things are addressed the healing turret will be able to be left out, instead of picked up or detonated and will be more useful for group play.

Phil.6123:

So we all agree that the healing turret needs a buff so that it’s survivability is higher and that the amount of heal that the regen gives be buffed and not the length of time the regen lasts. If these things are addressed the healing turret will be able to be left out, instead of picked up or detonated and will be more useful for group play.

I agree. This isn’t an outlandish request and it would definitely make the healing turret itself more viable for group play.

Phil.6123:

So we all agree that the healing turret needs a buff so that it’s survivability is higher and that the amount of heal that the regen gives be buffed and not the length of time the regen lasts. If these things are addressed the healing turret will be able to be left out, instead of picked up or detonated and will be more useful for group play.

I have 2 criteria for the turret to stay out:

1. do I have to move?

2. will the turret take any aoe damage at all, or get any aggro?

Usually both questions are answered by yes, meaning that I can NOT afford to leave the turret out.
Turrets need better aoe protection, and they need a better timing mechanic so that when picked up after their normal cooldown time you can immediately deploy again.
Not when detonated, just when picked up.

Phil.6123:

So we all agree that the healing turret needs a buff so that it’s survivability is higher and that the amount of heal that the regen gives be buffed and not the length of time the regen lasts. If these things are addressed the healing turret will be able to be left out, instead of picked up or detonated and will be more useful for group play.

Well, like I said before, in order to change the regen they’d either have to
a) Give you multiple stacks of regen like the Toolbelt skill does
or
b) Change the scaling of regen off of Healing Power overall (Resulting in every class getting a healing buff)

I personally don’t mind the drop in regen time as a tradeoff for the more constant burst. I just need them to buff its defense or add to its health. By the way, Overcharging the Turret gives you that additional 5s of regen, so you can actually get that full 8s just like the old Turret gave if you learn to immediately overcharge. You’ll just continue to get them in 3s increments every 3 rather than 8 every 8 afterwards.

Kimbald.2697:

Halo.1679:

I messed around with a turret spec last night in WvW and PVE. Turrets are still too weak, but its possible to throw down healing turret and 3 others, overcharge it, then blow up all 4 in the water field for some really good aoe heals. Really helps when everyone has to fall back if you have some set up in the background, the stragglers get some nice heals and blows back the advancing enemy.

Also, I had lots of fun dropping turrets behind me when running from large groups of people. I can just imagine the thoughts of my opponents as I keep detonating accelerant packed turrets in their path

isn’t this basically a healing turret and using the others as mines on long cooldowns?

If turrets are considered viable because we can only blow them up before they die anyhow… than something is seriously wrong in my book.

In the scenario you describe, any one turret should be replaced by throw mine for added boon stripping, and the other skill slot for Bomb Kit for BoB and added fields from the bombs.
The main issue with this would be: why trait accelerant packed turrets just for healing turret?
Picking up this trait makes people feel like they should use more turrets.
But in what you describe, the exact same build would be better of with throw mine and bomb kit. As it happens: the trait before Accelerant packed turrets could increase botht their ranges to something way better than a turret detonate anyhow.

Turrets need changes so they can be used in big fights WITHOUT having to be detonated the first second!
90% less aoe damage or something, as long as direct attacks can take them out, aoe should not.

Well it’s not a tactic that I plan on using normally. As you pointed out there are better ways of doing things. I was just trying to get a feel for the turrets after the patch.

Besides there is always room for optimism, no matter how badly misplaced

Kimbald.2697:

Tolmos.8395:

nakoda.4213:

condition removal on a 15-20 second cooldown?

“on demand” ish water field?

purely aesthetic?

My traited healing elixir also gives me condition removed on a 20 second cooldown. It also gives me a heal that is more than twice as large with the exact same cooldown (20 seconds for traited elixir, 20 seconds for turret. 15 if I insta-pickup). It also gives me a 10 second regen compared to my turret’s 3. It also gives me, on top of all of that, another buff.

So, yea… water field with turret vs 2x bigger heal, 3x longer regen, same condition removal and an extra buff. Hard choice there…

You are talking about a traited elixir versus the healing turret.

From the state of the Game I gathered that the main intention for the healing turret change was to open up other builds.
In other words: when you do NOT go for 409 trait, or elixir traits in general, than the healing turret provides almost simular effects without spending traits on it.

Not saying this makes the healing turret better, just saying you shouldn’t compare to traited elixir H, since the goal was to give something to those engineers who didn’t do that…

Ok, then lets look WITHOUT traits:

Elixir H: 5600 heal every 25 seconds, random buff (10 sec regen, swiftness/protection)
Healing Turret overload: 2600 heal every 20 seconds, 3 second regen, condition removal, no buff

If you insta-pickup without taking time to overload, you can knock off 5 seconds from that (putting the heal comparable to the Elixir H since every 30 seconds you would drop a 5200 heal), but lose the condition removal. So definitely overload, since without it you have a subpar heal, subpar regen time, and no buff.

And that isn’t even comparing the thrown elixir vs the healing turret toolbelt.

Without traits, the Elixir H still, IMO, comes out ahead. With traits, there is no question.

I’ll have to test some more, but currently hate the new turret and miss my old one.

BEFORE PATCH:
I would… drop mine => drop heal turret (5,400heal) => detonate mine (1,300heal) ===> detonate turret(1,300heal) reuse in 20 seconds.
—TOTAL = 8,000 ae heal every 20 seconds.

AFTER PATCH:
drop turret (2,700heal) => wait 1-2 seconds (maybe this delay is just from my internet?) => either 1. overcharge turret(2,700heal) ===> detonate mine(1,300heal) -or- 2. turret is killed before overcharge (happened over and over in WvW and new dungeon until I put elixer heal up).
—TOTAL: 1. 6,700 ae heal & 2 conditions removed every 20 seconds.
—TOTAL: 2. 2,700 ae heal every 20 seconds. (This happened far too much).

My thoughts so far:

1. I do not like that I now have to depend on the turret surviving as this is why I don’t use any turrets… they die way to easy for my play style.

2. I don’t like that to get the same amount of heals I now have to preform more actions and wait between them (very frustrating when running from a zerg and trying to heal on the run, complete crap for that now).

3. I do not like that I had to switch to elixer heal and change traits (reduce cool down elixers) during new dungeon as the AE’s turned healing turret into a 2,700 heal every 20 seconds (not enough).

4. I need to do more testing, but so far the testing has been just as frustrating as using any of the other turrets… I will more than likely have to change up my setup to accommodate a different heal, a 50/50 chance at good or bad heal (new turret) or some way to give turrets more time (30% hp trait, bleh).

Tolmos.8395:

Kimbald.2697:

Tolmos.8395:

nakoda.4213:

condition removal on a 15-20 second cooldown?

“on demand” ish water field?

purely aesthetic?

My traited healing elixir also gives me condition removed on a 20 second cooldown. It also gives me a heal that is more than twice as large with the exact same cooldown (20 seconds for traited elixir, 20 seconds for turret. 15 if I insta-pickup). It also gives me a 10 second regen compared to my turret’s 3. It also gives me, on top of all of that, another buff.

So, yea… water field with turret vs 2x bigger heal, 3x longer regen, same condition removal and an extra buff. Hard choice there…

You are talking about a traited elixir versus the healing turret.

From the state of the Game I gathered that the main intention for the healing turret change was to open up other builds.
In other words: when you do NOT go for 409 trait, or elixir traits in general, than the healing turret provides almost simular effects without spending traits on it.

Not saying this makes the healing turret better, just saying you shouldn’t compare to traited elixir H, since the goal was to give something to those engineers who didn’t do that…

Ok, then lets look WITHOUT traits:

Elixir H: 5560 heal every 25 seconds, random buff (10 sec regen, swiftness/protection)
Healing Turret + overload: 5040 personal heal every 20 seconds, 8 second regen to nearby allies, two condition removal to nearby allies, 2520 public heal to nearby allies + Water Field for additional healing burst options

If you insta-pickup without taking time to overload, you can knock off 5 seconds from that (putting the heal comparable to the Elixir H since every 30 seconds you would drop a 5200 heal), but lose the condition removal. So definitely overload, since without it you have a subpar heal, subpar regen time, and no buff (but regen IS a buff, isn’t it?).

Fixed some things.
If you want to compare the Toolbelt skills, Toss Elixir H gives you and your team a random boon of Elixir H Every 30s. Regenerating Mist gives you and nearby allies a Double Stack of Regen for 3s + another Water field every 25s

I have not once had my turret die before I could drop it, get the additional cleanse on the very first tick, then detonate it. (in WvW and tPVP)

Tolmos.8395:

Ok, then lets look WITHOUT traits:

Elixir H: 5600 heal every 25 seconds, random buff (10 sec regen, swiftness/protection)
Healing Turret overload: 2600 heal every 20 seconds, 3 second regen, condition removal, no buff

If you insta-pickup without taking time to overload, you can knock off 5 seconds from that (putting the heal comparable to the Elixir H since every 30 seconds you would drop a 5200 heal), but lose the condition removal. So definitely overload, since without it you have a subpar heal, subpar regen time, and no buff.

And that isn’t even comparing the thrown elixir vs the healing turret toolbelt.

Without traits, the Elixir H still, IMO, comes out ahead. With traits, there is no question.

Not arguing the value of elixir H here, but your info on healing turret is only half of it:

- deploy turret: 2520 heal plus 3 sec regen
- overcharge: another 2520 AOE plus 5 seconds regen plus 2 cleanses
And a very important water field for 5 seconds (seems 3 but should be 5…)
Overcharge is on 15 seconds if turret is left out.
- detonate: 1200 something AOE heal in that water field, other blast finishers will do too.
- Tool belt skill: regen and water field now on 25 seconds.

That’s a lot more than you describe in your post.
Even if you don’t detonate, that’s still a lot more. Especially on a 15 seconds overcharge.

Elixir H is good, not saying it isn’t.
But you’re still not getting the comparison right I believe

Velron.3729:

I have not once had my turret die before I could drop it, get the additional cleanse on the very first tick, then detonate it. (in WvW and tPVP)

skill lag in Wvw worries me since it’s 3 button presses to compute. Other than that I think it’s doable indeed, unless under extreme aoe.

Kimbald.2697:

Velron.3729:

I have not once had my turret die before I could drop it, get the additional cleanse on the very first tick, then detonate it. (in WvW and tPVP)

skill lag in Wvw worries me since it’s 3 button presses to compute. Other than that I think it’s doable indeed, unless under extreme aoe.

There were some huge fights last night I sadly got sucked into (much prefer the smaller scale stuff) and I didn’t have any issues getting it to work…kit swapping is always my issue in the super skill delay lag.

Nilix.2170:

Tolmos.8395:

Kimbald.2697:

Tolmos.8395:

nakoda.4213:

condition removal on a 15-20 second cooldown?

“on demand” ish water field?

purely aesthetic?

My traited healing elixir also gives me condition removed on a 20 second cooldown. It also gives me a heal that is more than twice as large with the exact same cooldown (20 seconds for traited elixir, 20 seconds for turret. 15 if I insta-pickup). It also gives me a 10 second regen compared to my turret’s 3. It also gives me, on top of all of that, another buff.

So, yea… water field with turret vs 2x bigger heal, 3x longer regen, same condition removal and an extra buff. Hard choice there…

You are talking about a traited elixir versus the healing turret.

From the state of the Game I gathered that the main intention for the healing turret change was to open up other builds.
In other words: when you do NOT go for 409 trait, or elixir traits in general, than the healing turret provides almost simular effects without spending traits on it.

Not saying this makes the healing turret better, just saying you shouldn’t compare to traited elixir H, since the goal was to give something to those engineers who didn’t do that…

Ok, then lets look WITHOUT traits:

Elixir H: 5560 heal every 25 seconds, random buff (10 sec regen, swiftness/protection)
Healing Turret + overload: 5040 personal heal every 20 seconds, 8 second regen to nearby allies, two condition removal to nearby allies, 2520 public heal to nearby allies + Water Field for additional healing burst options

If you insta-pickup without taking time to overload, you can knock off 5 seconds from that (putting the heal comparable to the Elixir H since every 30 seconds you would drop a 5200 heal), but lose the condition removal. So definitely overload, since without it you have a subpar heal, subpar regen time, and no buff (but regen IS a buff, isn’t it?).

Fixed some things.
If you want to compare the Toolbelt skills, Toss Elixir H gives you and your team a random boon of Elixir H Every 30s. Regenerating Mist gives you and nearby allies a Double Stack of Regen for 3s + another Water field every 25s

In that case I stand corrected: I did not account for the extra regen tossed on.

I’m still not happy with the heavy handed nerf, but I can accept that the turret is still useful.

To me, it’s not that heavy. You have to put in a little more effort to get what you used to get but you also get rewarded with faster condition removal. But it’s definitely a rework that I can understand will take getting used to, especially after all that time of practicing the proper detonation of the HT’s water field thin window.

And I’m seriously crossing my fingers that it’ll get bonus HP or a buff to Metal Plating or BOTH next patch.

PEOPLE!!! Invention traitline is broken sinds the latest patch, turrets don’t get their extended surviability from Autotool instalation and Metal Plating anymore and their range got reduced sinds Rifled Turret Barrels isn’t working neither.

I could reliably play before the patch when those were working as intended, so lets wait the fix (whenever the Devs feel ready, probably about next month…) and than after shall we make our conclusion about the new healing turret.

Velron.3729:

I have not once had my turret die before I could drop it, get the additional cleanse on the very first tick, then detonate it. (in WvW and tPVP)

I play a Bomb Kit spec, so maybe I am in AoE more than you? If I was in my nade spec I would imagine it is less of a problem. As it is currently I run at roughly 50% chance to get overcharge off before it is destroyed. Sometimes I never fully see the turret before it’s destroyed. I still get the initial heal, but no water field as it is a second or two after deployment.

What is nice is that as long as the Cleansing Burst fires and you get the water field, it is no longer dependent on the turret. You don’t have to be careful of the order you blow things up in, as long as the water field is there blowing up the turret won’t remove it.

Tolmos.8395:

No, now we just use something else. Using the healing turret at this point is for aesthetic purposes only. You get a better use heal and passive heal just running the elixir. :-\

Only, the turret affects everyone around it. Especially in keep defence it is quite strong in it’s new version, but it also comes in handy in PvE on any boss where you can park it behind something.

Senri.6308:

So you guys are arguing about the wiki, but not showing any proof of the information being wrong.

7 months ago

I’m loving the new turret so far, would be nice if it had some health though.

Valar, try placing the turret in places without aoes. I switched TO the turret in the new dungeon and my party loved me for it, first time ever using the healing turret and it rocked. Maybe you are too set in your playstyle to mix it up a bit :P

emikochan.8504:

I’m loving the new turret so far, would be nice if it had some health though.

Valar, try placing the turret in places without aoes. I switched TO the turret in the new dungeon and my party loved me for it, first time ever using the healing turret and it rocked. Maybe you are too set in your playstyle to mix it up a bit :P

I switched out of bomb heals and into nade… It works better when not in the think of things, but I still miss the blast/water heal detonating it 1/2 the time… I see the water shoot out after the stupid 1-2 second wait (pray an invader or mob doesn’t look at it wrong) then detonate, but it doesn’t always give the combo heal

I miss my bomb heal spec, hate healing elixir and heal kit

emikochan.8504:

Valar, try placing the turret in places without aoes. I switched TO the turret in the new dungeon and my party loved me for it, first time ever using the healing turret and it rocked. Maybe you are too set in your playstyle to mix it up a bit :P

Friend of mine ran turrets in the new dungeons (as a build!), and it was pretty cool. Was only the last fight that he had to swap traits and utilities due to the randomness of the attacks – can’t draw the fire away from the turrets at all.