Guild Wars 2

anyone would give me some advice plz against mesmer and thiefs at wvw and arenas pvp ? I cannot kill these 2 classes most of time at 1 vs 1 …

Thy hitting so hard and too mobile … how thy can give too much damage instant ???

why engineer’s hp is going down too fast while these 2 classes or other classes hps are not going down like engineer ? I tried toughness gear too but it didn’t help me at all. I tried bombs – grenades- rifle -pistol – flamethrower – turrents , nothing able to kill these 2 classes most of times !!! turrents are dying too fast already and bad damage – pistol rifle damage is same too… why we don’t get some real good buffs ( we getting useless buffs ) ??? and getting some nerfs all the time at every patches ?

someone please helps me to understand really. we are totally a support class comparing to other classes I tried most of builds and pvp is not so good on engineer. I spent lot2s of time on this character so I don’t want to give up on it.

At this december 10th patch – we will get nerfs again ;and get useless buffs again?

Both of those classes will almost always get away if they really want to and they are competent. You can’t really do much about that.

Surviving their burst can be done with protection boon traits, dodging at the correct time and shield blocks or CC at the proper moment. Keep in mind, you can still hit these classes while they are stealthed, so AoE skills will still ruin their day. You just have to think like a thief does.

Thieves and Mesmers are very strong duelists in WvW and PvP, and have a very stacked deck at low levels of mastery, compared with the Engineer. I’m going to assume you’re running something like a P/P Condition Grenade build. I’ll explain:

• Mesmers in particular have huge periods where you simply will not be able to land a single ability. I can only guarantee that the ‘hps’ of your enemies will go down faster than your Engineer if you learn when the holes in the Mesmer’s evasion is going to be. Against glassy Mesmers, reliable attacks like Pistol 1, 2, & 3 are often the only abilities that you will be able to reliably hit with, unless the Mesmer messes up, then you have to punish him with harder hitting abilities. My tips vs. Mesmers: bring toolkit and block as soon as you get iLeaped. Get good at landing shrapnel grenades on the mesmer as soon as the blurred frenzy wears off. Get good at landing magnet and using prybar & blowtorch before he can escape. Keep constant pressure up with Pistol 1-2-3, and constantly be advancing on the mesmer, forcing dodge rolls and allowing you to land a rare grenade or two (it’s hard). Bring some good sustain – Healing Turret and Backpack Regenerator makes you more than a match for most Mesmers, as long as you can land those clutch moves even though the Mesmer profession only gives you extremely short windows.

• Thieves as your opponent, just focus on playing very defensively. Anticipate the offensive teleports from Steal/Infiltrator’s Strike where he attacks – whatever build he’s running. Blocks and Elixir S are huge for doing that. Recommended utilities for fighting thieves, Toolkit and Elixir S/Slick shoes. If you bring Grenades/Bombs, use those at your feet to counterpressure the thief while he attempts to melee you. If the thief plays really defensively and just shortbow’s you all day, your pistol and sustain should be more than a match for trick shot spam. If the Thief is running away from you with low HP, get a magnet on him – I’ve pulled thieves clear out of Shadow Refuge countless times because it’s often predictable that he’ll do it as he’s retreating and out of other cooldowns. As soon as a thief is in shortbow, you have the go ahead to play very offensively with your pistols – the thief will probably evade about 6 times in a row and then you will get some guaranteed incendiary powder procs & pistol 1, 2, 3 on him. Keep aggressive and be ready to anticipate when he retaliates hard.

Then, we need some real buffs – not nerfs or useless buffs …

irma.3518:

Then, we need some real buffs – not nerfs or useless buffs …

No, sorry. That’s not true. It is balanced, but the balance equilibrium takes into account that the person playing Engineer is at a really strong level. A strong Engineer, built correctly will obliterate an average or poorly played Mesmer/Thief.

If you’re struggling, then you must realize you have the most room to improve of just about any profession. Once you’ve mastered your abilities to where all your attacks, including grenades, rarely whiff (miss), then you will know how squishy thieves and Mesmers actually are.

Yeah sorry to say dude, but this is a player side problem, not balance. The chill grenade is OP against thieves.

Mesmers are susceptible conditions. Dodge the illusionary Zerker , leap /or pistol daze and you just killed alot of their deeps. load them up with conditions between dodges.

It all depends on your play style and whether you have the right skills on your bar when they come along.

If you are ready for them and have the right utilities on then they aren’t that hard to beat- although a good mesmer is a lot harder to beat than a good thief.

Thiefs and mesmers are both strong in 1vs1. I have success killing both but sometimes i might kill a mesmer after a good fight but then get destroyed in seconds if i mess up the next one. Most roaming mesmers atm are running some form of heavy stealth/condition build in which they rely on their clones for dmg. Against those i play a very annoying style of engaging and disengaging with the use of elixir S and rocketboots. The clones are slow and away from you they won’t do much it kind of depends how well you can bait the mesmer. These mesmers always want to fight in circles so I just kite straight in some direction to take some power away from them. I don’t have much success going toe to toe.

Against phantasm mesmers i seem to do better unless they get the jump on me. I run a pistol/shield build with rabid/perplexity and med kit, grenade kit, elixir S and rocket boots pretty much always against all opponents. Against phantasms save your blocks and elixir S for their bursts and try to stay on them so you can keep condi pressure on them. Again i use rocket boots to get out of harms way and to heal etc.

Thiefs i don’t know much about. Some hit really hard but most seem to fall fast as well.. try to anticipate where they are moving as they stealth and you can hit them with nades and get condis up on them. Pistol conditions supply crate when they pop up. Timing blocks is also important.

I actually managed a 1vs2 against a thief and mesmer today by getting a few condis on then using rocket boots and elixir S to kite away, then i would suddenly turn around get some nades on them then rocket boot away, drop supply crate, try to get good blocks off. It went really well especially with them being kitteny and running after me which let me get free nade hits on the thief. But yeah in general good condition mesmers seem unbeatable and sometimes thief burst is just too much if you make a mistake.

My 2cents

VIVorcha.7853:

If the Thief has Hide in Shadows, any condition build is pretty much doomed, especially going up against the insane burst of a Thief.

That is simply not true. Engineers can reapply conditions multiple times in the time that Hide in Shadows is cooling down. If you’re having trouble putting conditions on a thief because of this one heal skill, then you really need to stop whiffing your skills and just practice more. The problems you’re having aren’t related to class balance, but your current skill level. Practice makes perfect.

Bombs are your best defence against thieves, unless you’re up against the especially cowardly shortbow 1/clusterbomb spamming variety then you’re just SOL. The only way to take care of these ones are high bursts when their many evades are down. Mesmers are pretty simple once you dodge their very predictable bursts.

Ameno.6813:

Bombs are your best defence against thieves, unless you’re up against the especially cowardly shortbow 1/clusterbomb spamming variety then you’re just SOL. The only way to take care of these ones are high bursts when their many evades are down. Mesmers are pretty simple once you dodge their very predictable bursts.

Last I checked engineers beat shortbow thieves at range, especially pistol engineers. Clusterbombs are pretty easy to avoid and are block-able if you use shield off-hand anyway. Not to mention shortbow gives thieves no stealthing option on their weapon skills, so if you see a thief switch to shortbow, all-in him and force him to burn initiative on using disabling shot and infiltrator’s arrow. If you can’t beat him while his shortbow is out, then you’re just playing that fight poorly.

Pure shortbow thieves are very rare. Shortbow is usually used to traverse around, start an engagement from range, test opponents weakness before switching to daggers to burst or skirting a big zerg fight where going into melee will end in death.

If a thief is kiting you with shortbow in a 1v1, be aware of your health. They will likely switch to burst you at 60% or less health and you can counter this with numerous methods as mentioned already. Do not waste all your defensive methods while they have a bow out.

I only have about 200 hours on my engi and thieves are free kills on it. P/S. healing turret, nades, bombs, rocket boots. The condi classes (necro/engi) have easy times with thieves. I’ve been in the top 100 solo queue on my thief several times and I can confidently say a thief has to severely outplay even average engies to have a chance at beating them. Chill them and blind them and they’ll be running in short order.

In WvW I rarely get killed by mesmers, but I can’t pin them down unless they make mistakes. Of course that varies by their build.

Thieves, otoh, are vastly overpowered. The simple fact of the matter is that a thief in WvW only dies if they want to, assuming reasonable gear and play. Sometimes they attack in the middle of too many people, others fail to reset at the right time. Most of the time, though, they either win, or reset, come back, then win.

-Jeff

I don’t have problem with my engineer and its build ( I love my engineer ). I have problem when I engage with mesmer or thief or any other good geared good players on the arenas/wvw They are bursting too much damage instant to me. I have 17.000 hp ;and when I got hit by these characters My hp is going down to between 8000 and 9000 hp with 2 hits… if I get some more successfull hits I almost die ;and evantually I die… If you don’t believe me I will gonna put the video while my friend and me were on the WvW yesterday ( he is necro and he can survive and kill more than me at zergs/group/solo pvp on wvw or arenas ) !!! When he saw how my hp goes down too fast he accepted my concern/problem after that. My gear is good too ( legendary rifle and so on ). I am full dps stat build ( 30-30-0-0-10 ) ;so I can maximize the damage output. Even my hp pool and defense are not so good comparing to toughness and vitalit ;but in return I should give good damage against to opponents. However, escpecially the classes or others if I cannot get down their hp like they have done to me at WvW how these things are possible ? if their build is a defense build they should lose from offensive damage ( even their build is hybrid ;because full offensive build should give more than a hybrid build in general ) ;but when I hit them I hard to down their hp and I hard to defeat them ,however they kill me in a 10 sec with giving instant too much damage with a few hits. Is it normal ? The answer is " NO ". If you are so good on your engineer and believing you can beat any of other fully geared good players ( mesmer – thief – elementalist – guardian – necromancer – ranger with your engineer ,even how much your engineered geared or you know what to do with your build at 1vs1 or wvw or arenas !!! ). Other classes has more escape and bursting more damage more faster abilities than engineer – it is for sure !!! If you believe yourself engineer is good comparing other classes in pve – pvp – wvw SHOW us here with some video experiences ;then I can learn where I am lack really ;and stop these questions to you on engineer forum !!!.

Wow, this thread. I was looking at this on a small monitor so I couldn’t see the names. The first comment I really got into gave some really calm, honest and great advice. Of course I scrolled over and found out it was Chaith. Will definitely use this info in PvP and WvW. Also everyone else took the time to give great strategy and build advice. I can appreciate Irma’s frustration, because when you get past that point, I know from experience that this is when you get really better at the engineer profession.

Since there is some good advice given here i’d like to take the chance to ask for some as well without starting a new thread. In the past 2 days i’ve suddenly ran into warriors that i’ve had a lot of trouble with. I dueled with one for an hour or so and managed to beat him when I had supply crate up but without that no luck. Also when he equipped runes of lyssa and longbow i just got demolished ( which i accept do to the runes).

Anyway there are lots of warriors who I don’t seem to have problems with but then come these Greatsword warriors and they are so mobile and the damage so high that i never really get the chance to load my conditions up on them and with all their leaps I can’t kite them either. I admit I usually play really in the enemies face so it might be that I just don’t have the correct playstyle down against them but it seems that I always get caught and have to blow my elixir S and rocket boots then the warrior is on me again dishing out crazy damage.

So any tips in general on how to fight good warriors and their various builds? I now realized bomb kit might really turn these fights around for me?

irma.3518:

• snip snip *

I don’t have problem with my engineer and its build. I have problem when I engage with mesmer or thief or any other good geared good players.

Okay.

irma.3518:

They are bursting too much damage instant to me.

Alright, so let’s find out why that’s happening.

irma.3518:

I am full dps stat build ( 30-30-0-0-10 ) ;so I can maximize the damage output.

So I’m sensing finding the root of the problem here.

irma.3518:

If their build is a defense build they should lose from offensive damage ( even their build is hybrid ;because full offensive build should give more than a hybrid build in general )

Here is the real problem. For this to actually be true, every combination of traits and gear, whether full glass to full bunker, with every weapon choice, would have to be in balance equilibrium. This is just really unrealistic. To be competitive in non-zerg conditions, you really need to be able to stay alive for the amount of time that it takes for your damage to be effective.

irma.3518:

When I hit them it’s hard to down their hp and it’s hard to defeat them ,however they kill me in a 10 sec with giving instant too much damage with a few hits. Is it normal ? The answer is " NO ".

Something you will soon come to understand about GW2 that no good build is completely defenseless. To be brief, your build sacrifices all the tools you need in order to 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, etc. In the most simple example, what you did in your build was choose against the traits and utilities that amount for 50% of your survivability, but only gained an incremental 25% damage increase.

Something you also need to understand is that if you want to build full glass and maximize damage on any profession, you need:

• 1) Amazing damage avoidance. Stealth, blinks, invulns, hella blinds, vigor, just high evade frames in general. To my knowledge, it’s really only Mesmers and Thieves that can get away with running TRUE glass cannon. Engineer needs to build for these things, which makes true glass builds impossible to be really ‘good’. If you have a plan to toss grenades on a point and never actually have to get close to your enemy, as an Engi, then by all means go ahead.

• 2) You need killing power. In your 30/30/0/0/10 build I can imagine you have tons of raw damage – but don’t mistake simply building full glass stats for building to have actual killing power. Engi is the profession that is going to be bad if you don’t have good combos in order to apply this damage.

^This is an example of what killing power is: http://www.twitch.tv/chaithh/c/3125426

The build used in that highlight is 916 toughness (glass), however I use traits like Protection Injection, Invigorating Speed, and a toolkit for amazing block uptime.

So to summarize, if your build doesn’t have killing power to back up the glass cannon stats, or any way to avoid damage, you can’t build glass cannon. If you build it because it’s fun, understand that you will lose to many players that are worse than you who run builds that are better thought out.

Hope this helps.. if you want to try some 5v5 builds, you can check out my stream for those: twitch.tv/chaithh

first use p/s because thief/mes are hard countered by shield 5 and sometimes shield 4 will interrupt them from stealthing. I would say when a thief/mes goes invis wait 2 seconds then put up your shield. when you see a block Icon DPS behind you.

1. Thief got a good backstab in ya: dodge 1 time to put a bomb where he is and create distance use healing turret blast it right after the overcharge then maybe shield 4 4 to get even more healing.

2. Thief got a good backstab heal isnt up. dodge out then put down a concusion bomb followed by a fire bomb. Most thieves just run into those and then I just prybar and gear shield them

3. ok so I got the thief to 25% then he starts running into stealth. quick use toolkit 5 to bring him back. this skill works even if they are in stealth then quickly DPS on your position.

4. the thief just went stealth and is definitely coming at me. put down a fire bomb then start kiting the invisible enemy though it.

5. I see the thief put down a smoke field and he’s about to leap through it. BIG OLD BOMB then smoke bomb my stealth will outlast his because mine has a 2 second delay. <-you can always shield 4 blast for this as well.

tldr thief best damage is in melee so use bombkit to kite them through your damage as they chase you and finish them off with a toolkit.

godz raiden.2631:

Ameno.6813:

Bombs are your best defence against thieves, unless you’re up against the especially cowardly shortbow 1/clusterbomb spamming variety then you’re just SOL. The only way to take care of these ones are high bursts when their many evades are down. Mesmers are pretty simple once you dodge their very predictable bursts.

Last I checked engineers beat shortbow thieves at range, especially pistol engineers. Clusterbombs are pretty easy to avoid and are block-able if you use shield off-hand anyway. Not to mention shortbow gives thieves no stealthing option on their weapon skills, so if you see a thief switch to shortbow, all-in him and force him to burn initiative on using disabling shot and infiltrator’s arrow. If you can’t beat him while his shortbow is out, then you’re just playing that fight poorly.

Maybe it’s just my play style, I’m built for node defense so anything that deals high, consistent damage from a distance is bad for me.

Hype.8032:

Yeah sorry to say dude, but this is a player side problem, not balance. The chill grenade is OP against thieves.

This. When you feel like the thief is about to stab you, toss a chill grenade or a blind grenade behind you. Additionally, you can spam regular grenades behind you to pressure him. If you hit freeze grenade or blind grenade, the thief shouldnt be able to backstab you unless he decides to steal.