Guild Wars 2

I love my engineer. The one thing I love the most is condition bombing someone and kit switching. With these new changes though, I feel we will be replaced. Necro now will have burning too, the same easy access but on top of that, they get a new condition and have access to more bleeds. Yes we can potentially burst someone faster but on the other hand, grenades are way harder to land than marks.

What are your thoughts?

They don’t have near the versatility. I’m not worried.

While we have versatility due to kits, they have more freedom in utilities.

I play for that special kind of versatility engineer provides. I’m not worried. I have both an engineer and a necro. My necro has never made it past lvl 53 in over 4 months. Burning isn’t going to make the difference for me.

I also disagree with the OP, from an sPvP perspective.

They also get that new condition. Along with burning and there other conditions. We only will have confusion while they have fear and torment.

They get one single Grandmaster Trait, in their Power Trait Line, that do 4 seconds of burning and have a cooldown on 10 seconds, and they need to crit! They ain’t even close to the amount of burning we have! I’m sitll not worried

Napalm is also supposedly getting a 5 sec burning base on low CD , another insane source for more stacked burning.

Grenades do damage. Marks don’t. No I am not worried.

engies and necros are as different from each other as it gets. also, necros always had some access to burning, as they do with confusion, converting boons.

My understanding from the notes is the necro has anything but easy access to burning… its a grandmaster trait. Which means they forfeit two other build-making abilities to get it.

Am I missing something?

They are too different. but on PvE nah, engineers will still be better

but for PvP, it will all depends on teams, Engineer can spam conditions much faster to more people, necromancers have the advantage to spread them, but on their own they are not a huge treat, normally they need another condi class on their team to be good

the only thing that will change if those patch notes are real, a condi engineer should never win a 1v1 against a decent necro (altho, that will prob be the case for everyone, exept phantasm mesmers or shatters)

google.3709:

They are too different. but on PvE nah, engineers will still be better

but for PvP, it will all depends on teams, Engineer can spam conditions much faster to more people, necromancers have the advantage to spread them, but on their own they are not a huge treat, normally they need another condi class on their team to be good

the only thing that will change if those patch notes are real, a condi engineer should never win a 1v1 against a decent necro (altho, that will prob be the case for everyone, exept phantasm mesmers or shatters)

At the rate that HGH condition builds cleanse I don’t understand how anyone can know this already. I’m not saying it’s not going to be true, but it just seems like a big jump to a conclusion based on very little info.

google.3709:

the only thing that will change if those patch notes are real, a condi engineer should never win a 1v1 against a decent necro

that has always been the case :p

aydenunited.5729:

At the rate that HGH condition builds cleanse I don’t understand how anyone can know this already. I’m not saying it’s not going to be true, but it just seems like a big jump to a conclusion based on very little info.

a good necro will overload you with conditions, 409 just isnt fast enough to get rid of them, especially while you get 2 fears, your conditions tossed back at you and boons corrupted.

Maskaganda.2043:

google.3709:

the only thing that will change if those patch notes are real, a condi engineer should never win a 1v1 against a decent necro

that has always been the case :p

aydenunited.5729:

At the rate that HGH condition builds cleanse I don’t understand how anyone can know this already. I’m not saying it’s not going to be true, but it just seems like a big jump to a conclusion based on very little info.

a good necro will overload you with conditions, 409 just isnt fast enough to get rid of them, especially while you get 2 fears, your conditions tossed back at you and boons corrupted.

None of that you mentioned was any different from what Necros can already do… how does the new condition suddenly make it any different is what I mean?

I’ll reserve judgement until I can see the options much more clearly, by testing them out myself.

Altho I play PVE exclusively that might not be what the OP is talking about.

No.

At the moment, necros deal pathetic damage if they go full Conditions, outside of conditions (I hit about 100-200dps? when I’m not in zerker). I have to go full zerker on Necro just to be able to deal decent(???) damage. I think this will even the odds personally, but I’ll have to compare both and see how it goes.

Maskaganda.2043:

google.3709:

the only thing that will change if those patch notes are real, a condi engineer should never win a 1v1 against a decent necro

that has always been the case :p

aydenunited.5729:

At the rate that HGH condition builds cleanse I don’t understand how anyone can know this already. I’m not saying it’s not going to be true, but it just seems like a big jump to a conclusion based on very little info.

a good necro will overload you with conditions, 409 just isnt fast enough to get rid of them, especially while you get 2 fears, your conditions tossed back at you and boons corrupted.

We may not be able to transfer them but we very reliable resources to deal with conditions thoroughly. So im not in the slightest worried about those coveted “decent necros”.

The reason Engineers were chosen over Necros had nothing to do with damage as Necros have always been strong in damage and control. The reason is because a necro needs to be babysat, but an engineer can escape.

Engineers can deal the same damage, and have the added benefit of not having to have a focused peeler. This made them the preferred method (Plus confusion).

Replaced? I look forward to seeing more necros while on my engineer.

Though necros get burning, engineers get a whole lot more burning. With just the pistol recharge trait I can achieve near permanent burn in a cone, and with bombs I can achieve permanent burning in an AoE, with the flame turret I can get permanent burn in a cone until they are destroyed, with the rocket turret I can get permanent AoE burn at a distance until destroyed, and that isn’t including the extra burns from crits, the Flamethrower, or the rocket boots. As it stands, Engineers are arguably the best class for burning, capable of permanently sustaining a burn on multiple targets with very little utility and trait investment. Necromancers can’t even come close to that. In fact, I imagine necromancers would fear engineers more, since engineer burns would override their burns in an instant.

But put the two together and you have something magic. Engineers get bits of confusion, better poison, and a hell-load of fire while the necromancer gets more reliable bleeds, torment, and more cripple/chill. Then, once they’re both together, the necromancer can use Epidemic to spread the conditions, doubling their effectiveness on everything in the room. When the necromancer burn procs, it isn’t like when a guardian or a ranger does it: chances are the necromancer will have high condition damage and maintain the high burn damage instead of overriding it with something half as strong.

Yobculture.5786:

No.

At the moment, necros deal pathetic damage if they go full Conditions, outside of conditions (I hit about 100-200dps? when I’m not in zerker). I have to go full zerker on Necro just to be able to deal decent(???) damage. I think this will even the odds personally, but I’ll have to compare both and see how it goes.

That’s actually due to every class having it’s very own condition damage base score trust me, my thief does better bleeds then my engi and my engi is in full condi gear.

Also condis do not stack properly so they are terribly imbalanced at the moment.

aydenunited.5729:

Maskaganda.2043:

google.3709:

the only thing that will change if those patch notes are real, a condi engineer should never win a 1v1 against a decent necro

that has always been the case :p

aydenunited.5729:

At the rate that HGH condition builds cleanse I don’t understand how anyone can know this already. I’m not saying it’s not going to be true, but it just seems like a big jump to a conclusion based on very little info.

a good necro will overload you with conditions, 409 just isnt fast enough to get rid of them, especially while you get 2 fears, your conditions tossed back at you and boons corrupted.

None of that you mentioned was any different from what Necros can already do… how does the new condition suddenly make it any different is what I mean?

it doesn’t, thats the point. in a 1v1 necro already has a huge advantage over engie.

Giving a necromancer the option to pick up Incendiary Powder as a grandmaster trait and letting them actually deal condition damage in Death Shroud is not going to suddenly make them replace engineers. It will make them a more viable substitute in some situations, though.

They’ll still have worse defense and mobility, almost no disengage options and probably lower overall damage.

Stice.5204:

They’ll still have worse defense and mobility, almost no disengage options and probably lower overall damage.

Have you ever played power necro? Full berserker ascended gear.

Necro main hand dagger is a true power house. The auto attack is extremely fast and deal massive direct dps. Probably the hardest hitting auto attack in the game, considering its rapid attack speed. Ghastly claws (axe #2) and well of corruption + well suffering combination are also very good damage dealers. The patch notes said that the cooldown of necro well are going to be decreased (+ you get 20% cd reduction from ritual mastery trait).

It is true that necromancer ranks the worst in mobility. Zero viable gap closers besides that wurm thing, but engineer is pretty close to that, but let’s see what the next patch brings.

But I don’t see necros replacing engineers. Engineer has much better party wide healing. Necro has mark of blood and that’s about it.

Those patch notes people keep referring to are not confirmed to be real. Pretty sure they’re bullkitten.

Looking over them, honestly, some of the things do seem plausible – and then the plausibility is immediately shattered by “Yeah, sure they’ll move Coated Bullets down a notch. And Juggernaut, too.”

Moving on. I’m not, personally, all that concerned about the Burning or Torment being given to Necromancers – they’ll have to trait for Burning, after all. Torment might be more worthy of concern, in my opinion; Torment + Fear (with Terror traited) = “Man, I wish I had stability.”

We’ll have to wait and see what kind of effects the trait and Torment have, though. Only three days.

IF the patch notes are true, necros will have to spend a grandmaster slot to get their burning.

So the necro forums will have several threads of “why do we have to spend 30 points for a trait engineers get for 10 points?”.

It’s all about perspective.

I main necro and im leveling an engineer at the moment. from playing ALOT as a necro and my limited time on engineer I can confirm necro will not become superior to engineer due to the addition of burning.

the amount of situations ive survived as an underlevel in WvW as a bomb engie weaving through zergs that I wouldn’t have had a chance to survive on my necro (fully geared with some ascended gear too) are countless.

engineers are the durable condition class. necromancer is MUCH more fragile and stacks conditions slower than engie (necro has better bleed application)

Necro is a class that can’t be left alone in a zerg fight, you need to kill it or it’ll melt squads. engineer however, is almost better on its own. you want to chase me from tower to tower? okay, the engineer can punish for that, but necro can’t. all classes excel in situation based scenarios. three thieves on me and i’m done, three guardians…not so much.

I have both at 80, but my main is a engineer, I dont think he’ll replace my engineer when patch comes out, but i will definitely respec my necro and play him again, he’s been sitting off in a shelf for a long long time, becuz he was so inferior to my engineer.

The burning traits sounds really nice, as well as the reworks on alot of the necro traits so it’s still hard to say itll be better. They also got a slight nerf as well with the 5max condition corrupt boon, but thts not that much of a nerf.

Engineers will still have more access to confusion, more access to retal, and boons than necros, although necros can stack might in a couple seconds, they dont have the duration for a long fight like an engineer. Engineers still by far has more survivablity skills than necro too, so I doubt theyll be replaced, necros will be played more during the patch just to test its limits and what they can do, me included.

Anymras.5729:

Those patch notes people keep referring to are not confirmed to be real. Pretty sure they’re bullkitten.

Looking over them, honestly, some of the things do seem plausible – and then the plausibility is immediately shattered by “Yeah, sure they’ll move Coated Bullets down a notch. And Juggernaut, too.”

Moving on. I’m not, personally, all that concerned about the Burning or Torment being given to Necromancers – they’ll have to trait for Burning, after all. Torment might be more worthy of concern, in my opinion; Torment + Fear (with Terror traited) = “Man, I wish I had stability.”

We’ll have to wait and see what kind of effects the trait and Torment have, though. Only three days.

theres the one on reddit which is unconfirmed, and theres this https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/upcoming-skill-and-trait-changes/

it states necro access to burning, tainted shackles and trait reworkings for necros.

Bones.5762:

Anymras.5729:

Those patch notes people keep referring to are not confirmed to be real. Pretty sure they’re bullkitten.

Looking over them, honestly, some of the things do seem plausible – and then the plausibility is immediately shattered by “Yeah, sure they’ll move Coated Bullets down a notch. And Juggernaut, too.”

Moving on. I’m not, personally, all that concerned about the Burning or Torment being given to Necromancers – they’ll have to trait for Burning, after all. Torment might be more worthy of concern, in my opinion; Torment + Fear (with Terror traited) = “Man, I wish I had stability.”

We’ll have to wait and see what kind of effects the trait and Torment have, though. Only three days.

theres the one on reddit which is unconfirmed, and theres this https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/upcoming-skill-and-trait-changes/

it states necro access to burning, tainted shackles and trait reworkings for necros.

The one on Reddit is the one I’m pretty sure is bullkitten – reducing Coated Bullets to Master is absurd, among all other things. The other is an official announcement, but may or may not be telling everything there is to tell about who’s getting what. It certainly doesn’t give any information about most of the changes that’re coming.

What we do know, as it’s quoted from the devs and/or stated in the announcement:
Every single traitline in the game is getting between one and five changes.
Necro Death Shroud will get Tainted Shackles and Torment (which will synergize nicely with their Fear effects, at the very least, especially if they’re traited to damage with Fear).
Necros have specifically been mentioned to be receiving a Burning trait.
Mesmers and Thieves will also get Torment.

Necros might replace Engis in the Meta, but never in my heart….

/drama

Bull Zooker.1672:

I main necro and im leveling an engineer at the moment. from playing ALOT as a necro and my limited time on engineer I can confirm necro will not become superior to engineer due to the addition of burning.

the amount of situations ive survived as an underlevel in WvW as a bomb engie weaving through zergs that I wouldn’t have had a chance to survive on my necro (fully geared with some ascended gear too) are countless.

engineers are the durable condition class. necromancer is MUCH more fragile and stacks conditions slower than engie (necro has better bleed application)

If you have survivability problems as a Necro in WvW zerg situations you need to reevaluate your build and playstyle. Plague Form alone will ensure me being one of the last guys standing even if things go badly for our side and I don’t even use a defensive build.

Roaming solo or in a small group is a different matter, the non-existant options to disengage really hurt there.

We have been nerfed so many times, and we are still here. I am not worry

We’ve also been buffed many times alongside those nerfs, and we have some of the best builds out there. I’m not worried.

Anymras.5729:

Bones.5762:

Anymras.5729:

Those patch notes people keep referring to are not confirmed to be real. Pretty sure they’re bullkitten.

Looking over them, honestly, some of the things do seem plausible – and then the plausibility is immediately shattered by “Yeah, sure they’ll move Coated Bullets down a notch. And Juggernaut, too.”

Moving on. I’m not, personally, all that concerned about the Burning or Torment being given to Necromancers – they’ll have to trait for Burning, after all. Torment might be more worthy of concern, in my opinion; Torment + Fear (with Terror traited) = “Man, I wish I had stability.”

We’ll have to wait and see what kind of effects the trait and Torment have, though. Only three days.

theres the one on reddit which is unconfirmed, and theres this https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/upcoming-skill-and-trait-changes/

it states necro access to burning, tainted shackles and trait reworkings for necros.

The one on Reddit is the one I’m pretty sure is bullkitten – reducing Coated Bullets to Master is absurd, among all other things. The other is an official announcement, but may or may not be telling everything there is to tell about who’s getting what. It certainly doesn’t give any information about most of the changes that’re coming.

What we do know, as it’s quoted from the devs and/or stated in the announcement:
Every single traitline in the game is getting between one and five changes.
Necro Death Shroud will get Tainted Shackles and Torment (which will synergize nicely with their Fear effects, at the very least, especially if they’re traited to damage with Fear).
Necros have specifically been mentioned to be receiving a Burning trait.
Mesmers and Thieves will also get Torment.

it is almost 100% fake, the one from reddit that is, everything is pretty much buffs. But i heard that those were beta test notes or something, which dont sound unrealistic.

There are other sources that came out today with trait previews that back up the leaked notes.

http://www.guildwars2hub.com/features/editorials/sky-pirates-tyria-traits-preview-part-two

Ayestes.1273:

we have some of the best builds out there.

PvP: Yes
WvW battles: No
PvE: No

Velron.3729:

There are other sources that came out today with trait previews that back up the leaked notes.

http://www.guildwars2hub.com/features/editorials/sky-pirates-tyria-traits-preview-part-two

Devs specifically mentioned that every traitline would be modified between one and five times, yet that editorial there says Death Magic will remain unchanged; I’m not sure this isn’t somebody grabbing the leaked notes to make a quick article.

Ayestes.1273:

We’ve also been buffed many times alongside those nerfs, and we have some of the best builds out there. I’m not worried.

Solely in pvp, they still haven’t fixed almost a year of PVE nerfs.

Zenguy.6421:

Ayestes.1273:

we have some of the best builds out there.

PvP: Yes
WvW battles: No
PvE: No

PvP: yes
WvWvW battles: okay/no
PvE: some good support build

Engineers are doing well in small scale roaming in WvWvW. Tied up with rangers. The best roamer professions are thieves, mesmers and elementalists.

But when it comes to huge zerg fights, engineers are one of the weakest professions. Retaliation is way too strong against most engineer offensive options. Getting 16k retaliation dmg from one grenade barrage illustrates what I am talking about. The lag hurts engineers more than most other professions as you need to activate a lot of skills in short amount of time to be effective and lag makes this impossible. I find it easier to farm loot bags and WXP using warrior.

I don’t think we will be replaced but Necros will definitely end up being a valid choice now. Engies still make great backpoint defenders and far point attackers so they still have a place in the varied meta.

When you look at team fights though, Necros with weakness and torment will definitely start bringing the hurt.

Bas.7406:

The reason Engineers were chosen over Necros had nothing to do with damage as Necros have always been strong in damage and control. The reason is because a necro needs to be babysat, but an engineer can escape.

Engineers can deal the same damage, and have the added benefit of not having to have a focused peeler. This made them the preferred method (Plus confusion).

Bas I promise you that an oldschool HGH needs to have peels and be babysat when being focused in a 3v3 or larger environment. They are just as squishy as a necro if not more-so.

Necros really did have subpar damage in comparison to HGH with the same survivability. An engi with a shield and elixer R did about the same damage as a necro but has the added swiftness + rez field/block so that made them the auto include aside from niche dual condi teams.

From my testing today (scrimming 5v5 with my team practicing for our tournament + 2 mist league matches tomorrow) necros now have the option to do damage at a higher level than the safe-ish engi builds. As in comparable to HGH. With their mastery of conditions through condi transfers and boons through corrupt boon or axe 3 they can even stomp HGH in a 1v1/2v2 scenario.

It will be interesting to see if this super glass 30/30/10 spec starts to replace engineers since it can handle engis and BM/Trap rangers at least while providing serious cleaves through epi at teamfights.

As an Engi player post elixer R nerf/patch I am considering running dual necros over HGH + Necro.

So, what is the conclusion to this statement? For what my opinion is worth, it seems I was right. You see triple necro teams now.

@Godofallu.2935

Engineers don’t have nearly as much survival as necro. Necro are more tanky and also have a larger health pool, they can easily clear/transfer all conditions quiet often and they can easily condi burst fear anyone trying to go after them. their survival is quiet impressive tbh.

Necromancers have taken the condi engi place(In PvP at least) BUT…… Engineers continue to be the CC kings. power engi with CC can easily take down necros, something thats nearly impossible with condi engis.

vinceftw.5086:

So, what is the conclusion to this statement? For what my opinion is worth, it seems I was right. You see triple necro teams now.

I think you see triple-necro teams right now because people are experimenting with the changes now that the class is actually viable. I don’t think the metagame transition has settled yet.

As a WvW commanger / guild master in a T1 – T3 rank server, what would you rather have: 15 eng or 15 necros (among the multitude of warrs, guards and eles)?

google.3709:

@Godofallu.2935

Engineers don’t have nearly as much survival as necro. Necro are more tanky and also have a larger health pool, they can easily clear/transfer all conditions quiet often and they can easily condi burst fear anyone trying to go after them. their survival is quiet impressive tbh.

Necromancers have taken the condi engi place(In PvP at least) BUT…… Engineers continue to be the CC kings. power engi with CC can easily take down necros, something thats nearly impossible with condi engis.

where you say necromancer is more survivable than engie – couldn’t disagree more.

engie has numerous blocks, invulnerability skills, access to stealth a huge variety of CC skills.
necro have fear and death shroud… which is great, I mean I love my death shroud. but it doesn’t compare to multiple blocks and invulnerable skills.

my engie will survive situations my necro wouldn’t have a chance, with less HP and less play time on the class.

engie is awesome survivability if you spec/gear right.
necro is also the first class to get focused in team fights.

blurps.2340:

Bull Zooker.1672:

I main necro and im leveling an engineer at the moment. from playing ALOT as a necro and my limited time on engineer I can confirm necro will not become superior to engineer due to the addition of burning.

the amount of situations ive survived as an underlevel in WvW as a bomb engie weaving through zergs that I wouldn’t have had a chance to survive on my necro (fully geared with some ascended gear too) are countless.

engineers are the durable condition class. necromancer is MUCH more fragile and stacks conditions slower than engie (necro has better bleed application)

If you have survivability problems as a Necro in WvW zerg situations you need to reevaluate your build and playstyle. Plague Form alone will ensure me being one of the last guys standing even if things go badly for our side and I don’t even use a defensive build.

Roaming solo or in a small group is a different matter, the non-existant options to disengage really hurt there.

plague form (in my experience) just puts a big target over your head to get CC’d and melted.

I dont struggle with staying alive on necro, what im saying is engie is a walk in the park in comparison.

solo roaming 1v1 on necro is great fun. though when you start getting into 2v1 or 3v1 thats where the lack of survivability is truly a kitten.

I have played almost every build there is to play on necro. still my kits engie is more survivable than anything ive found for necro.

^ You’re confusing it with lich form. In Plague, you have stability.