Guild Wars 2

I play a level 80 Guardian. I just celebrated my character’s first birthday a few days ago. I have somewhat recently decided to try out some other classes, just to broaden my horizons and break out of the Guardian mindset. So I tried out the Elementalist. Fun to play, I dig the speed piano shtick, but a little squishy for my taste. I like to be right in my enemy’s face, if I can help it. Mesmer is also fun, but again, light armor just doesn’t do it for me. So I tried out the engineer. Looks like fun! Lots of options, medium armor, so I can take a few hits, the weapon choices suck, but KITS will make up for it, right? So I’m level 20, having fun with my flamethrower, but getting the snot kicked out of me, ‘cause I haven’t spent any trait points, and I pause to take a look at my traits.

… What?
How does anybody survive at level 80!? Your traitline is awful. You have to spend 25 points for 1% extra damage per boon? And so far as I’ve seen, it’s not like the Engineer is a class that generates a butt ton of boons. Also, 10% extra damage when your endurance bar is full. But… I’m in medium armor. I need to dodge. Shouldn’t this be for a heavy armor class? Seriously, how often is this actually useful? For the first second-and-a-half of any fight.

Also, your skills! The way I see it, you have four major sets of skills.
KITS, which work, but honestly, they’re the only things that do. Which is sad. Only a quarter of your abilities are useful. Also, my Quaggan backpack. D;
ELIXIRS, which are based almost entirely on luck. Very unreliable.
TURRETS, which DON’T WORK. Like, at all. Overcharge works less than half the time, and they won’t even target the fire elemental. Or any other world boss, from what I understand.
GADGETS, Which are mostly only useful for moving you around. Honestly, I see why everybody forgets about them.

My dear boyfriend plays an Engineer, and has since the beginning of GW2, and I’ve seen how the Engineer community responds to all of the problems.
Just because you don’t use turrets, doesn’t mean that they’re not still broken. A large chunk of your skills are absolutely FILLED TO THE BRIM with problems. That doesn’t bother you?
Just sayin’.

Anyway, all in all the Engineer would be better with the addition of some new weapons, some SERIOUS bugfixin’, and maybe some traits that better suit a medium armor class. Maybe I only feel this way because I play a fully functional class, but this is what I see.

Turrets, man. Help them.

I have played one for over a year. the secret of living with squishy armour, semi useful turrets and useless traits ? RANGE ! I hit from max range at stuff, and can keep them off me for a few seconds at a time by using my turrets as bait. the grenades were nerfed months ago, and they were the only good kit there was, the flame thrower is useless and annoying. but I do love playing one

Anet wouldn’t allow tat why? bec. the engineer profession could do all the jobs of other profession in a semi manner way.

Plus anet would not admit that they engineer game play is limited to a few builds and it encourages player to be active or so they say. I got the point of what they are doing and all turrets, drones, long-range tactics are their means of how they should play.

The engineer profession is a none-min-max class that should play as it should be the reason why some people chose this class is to do more while under pressure and be ahead not the other way around.

I my perspective anet should give the engineer the credit it deserves and for once.

There is no balancing issue in the supposed gameplay that i stated. Its bec. that how they were meant to play taking advantage of your strength and turn it into
weaknesses.

For ex. warriors are a straight forward class that means their tactics is shock and awe. Turrets should be the deterrent for those kind of tactics not reverse and turrets get destroyed so easily in real life turrets shoot threats with extreme prejudice and not a paper cannon.

My point is anet should stop pretending the engineer capabilities today are okay.

Funny story, this was actually posted a couple days ago on the Game Discussion boards, as it’s a Guardian’s view of the Engineer.

Then they deleted the post and infracted the poster, who proceeded to appeal it and get “Yeah, that was a mistake. Sorry about that.”

Nice to see they A ) didn’t uninfract the OP despite saying the infraction was a mistake and B ) didn’t even put it back where it was to begin with, instead doing what they should have done and moved it.

I know this because OP is my girlfriend, and posted this from approximately two feet to my left.

you’re level 20 crying for buffs.
next thread.

As you get higher, things get easier. 20-40 was roughest when I was playing 1st time, but I was trying ability’s as I bought them, wishing I bought something else at that level.

Wish I knew about the pvp lobby to try abilities before I bought them LOL.

ellesee.8297:

you’re level 20 crying for buffs.
next thread.

The issue of blatantly underpowered, and useless traits is well known. And not suddenly, magically, fixed at lv80.
Turrets dont suddenly magically unbreak the moment you ding lv80 either.

A lot of Engineers issues become apparent before you even leave the first zone.

ellesee.8297:

you’re level 20 crying for buffs.
next thread.

Agreed, but to expand a little bit…

Kits are not the only good skill set. Elixirs are just as good, some would probably argue even better especially if the upcoming buffs go through.

Gadgets are not that bad, they lack condition removal and are for sure a step behind from kits/elixirs but you can still make a good build using mostly gadgets. Ideally they would be brought up to the level of elixirs/kits, the easiest way I can think of is buffing the toolbelt skills from gadgets.

Turrets are pretty bad IMO, I know some people make builds with them but I am just annoyed by the attack duration problems they have now. They definitely need to be better.

Some of our traits are weak, but is that not true of any profession? I know for a fact I can find some Guardian traits that no one uses, and some skills people hardly ever slot. That’s not really unique to Engineer. To answer your question about the boons, yes Engis can stack pretty much any boon that can be stacked. Only missing Stability, but we’ll hopefully get that in a few weeks. The 1% damage per boon is basically a solid 5-7% damage boost for free. We also have very powerful traits which you probably can’t interpret as powerful because of your limited experience with Engis. Lots of the Explosives line is very good, Firearms are good (Grandmasters a little weak, but Master level is quite good), Inventions are good, Elixirs probably the most popular, and Tools good (GM weak again, but the rest is very solid). Certain traits in some of those lines might suck (again, true of any profession) but the trait lines as a whole are pretty good.

Terrahero.9358:

The issue of blatantly underpowered, and useless traits is well known. And not suddenly, magically, fixed at lv80.
Turrets dont suddenly magically unbreak the moment you ding lv80 either.

A lot of Engineers issues become apparent before you even leave the first zone.

Right, but the OP is also raising concerns over things they have little to no experience with. Lack of tankiness was a main concern because we have some traits that suggest we should be tanky. They responded with “medium armor = must use all dodges”. This is something that they clearly need to experience to see that Engis can be very tanky regardless of what class of armor they wear. Some of the OP’s comments clearly come from no background of playing the Engineer, and I think replying with the whole level 20 thing is pretty valid in light of many of their concerns.

The hyperbole of “A large chunk of your skills are absolutely FILLED TO THE BRIM with problems.” doesn’t really help credibility either.

Terrahero.9358:

ellesee.8297:

you’re level 20 crying for buffs.
next thread.

The issue of blatantly underpowered, and useless traits is well known. And not suddenly, magically, fixed at lv80.
Turrets dont suddenly magically unbreak the moment you ding lv80 either.

A lot of Engineers issues become apparent before you even leave the first zone.

yes because engineers are the only class with bad traits traits. i always see gaggles of elementalists in the starting zones exclaiming how they can’t wait to hit 80 to trait diamond skin.

I made an engineer a while ago and just decided to start leveling it. With the birthday booster, xp booster, and killstreak booster, I’ve gained 44 levels in about 2 days just spamming grenade kits, bleed,frost,blind,poison,bleed etc
I also use rocket boots to escape tight spots and simply for mobility. Its toolbelt skill is extremely helpful as an aoe burn once all your mobs are stacking
and finally i run elixir B because its amazing. I’m consistantaly destroying monsters 5-7 levels higher then me, even face tanking them when im feeling casual. small circles around mobs corrals them to stack and grenade kit takes off. i always for every proffession toss as many traits as i can into the power tree and it happens to be the grenade tree. That’s how you get stuff done. its so easy, grenade kits feels really powerful to me

foundling fox.9054:

I play a level 80 Guardian. I just celebrated my character’s first birthday a few days ago. I have somewhat recently decided to try out some other classes, just to broaden my horizons and break out of the Guardian mindset. So I tried out the Elementalist. Fun to play, I dig the speed piano shtick, but a little squishy for my taste. I like to be right in my enemy’s face, if I can help it. Mesmer is also fun, but again, light armor just doesn’t do it for me. So I tried out the engineer. Looks like fun! Lots of options, medium armor, so I can take a few hits, the weapon choices suck, but KITS will make up for it, right? So I’m level 20, having fun with my flamethrower, but getting the snot kicked out of me, ‘cause I haven’t spent any trait points, and I pause to take a look at my traits.

… What?
How does anybody survive at level 80!? Your traitline is awful. You have to spend 25 points for 1% extra damage per boon? And so far as I’ve seen, it’s not like the Engineer is a class that generates a butt ton of boons. Also, 10% extra damage when your endurance bar is full. But… I’m in medium armor. I need to dodge. Shouldn’t this be for a heavy armor class? Seriously, how often is this actually useful? For the first second-and-a-half of any fight.

Also, your skills! The way I see it, you have four major sets of skills.
KITS, which work, but honestly, they’re the only things that do. Which is sad. Only a quarter of your abilities are useful. Also, my Quaggan backpack. D;
ELIXIRS, which are based almost entirely on luck. Very unreliable.
TURRETS, which DON’T WORK. Like, at all. Overcharge works less than half the time, and they won’t even target the fire elemental. Or any other world boss, from what I understand.
GADGETS, Which are mostly only useful for moving you around. Honestly, I see why everybody forgets about them.

My dear boyfriend plays an Engineer, and has since the beginning of GW2, and I’ve seen how the Engineer community responds to all of the problems.
Just because you don’t use turrets, doesn’t mean that they’re not still broken. A large chunk of your skills are absolutely FILLED TO THE BRIM with problems. That doesn’t bother you?
Just sayin’.

Anyway, all in all the Engineer would be better with the addition of some new weapons, some SERIOUS bugfixin’, and maybe some traits that better suit a medium armor class. Maybe I only feel this way because I play a fully functional class, but this is what I see.

Turrets, man. Help them.

Not many people will get the Engie at first glance. I was one of those people who didn’t “get” the engie and it seems you are too. One day, if you keep playing it, you will understand how large the possibilities are with the Engie and how they can sometimes even be more effective at support than even the Guardian.

Turrets are for pvp (rifle and healing work for pve though). Flamethrower auto sucks. It’s horrible. Don’t use it, ever. Grenades don’t do damage till level 60. Don’t autoattack with flamethrower. Bomb autos are strong if you like being all in your face, just make sure to use explosives III so they can hit. Stop using flamethrower autos, it may look cool, but it is not good for dealing damage. Rocket boots are like, awesome mobility. Make sure you have swiftness when using them for a further jump. I can tell you’re using flamethrower autos. What did I say about flamethrower autos?

Just LOL , no wonder why they were infracted …surprised Anet didn’t delete their account sheesh.

foundling fox.9054:

You have to spend 25 points for 1% extra damage per boon? And so far as I’ve seen, it’s not like the Engineer is a class that generates a butt ton of boons.

ellesee.8297:

you’re level 20 crying for buffs.
next thread.

You say the same thing when a level 80 asks for buffs.

Why are you on these forums if you have nothing to contribute to discussion?

Our traitlines DO suck.

-One of our MAJOR GRANDMASTER traits is a MINOR ADEPT TRAIT for Rangers. 50% faster endurance regen IS NOT GRANDMASTER MATERIAL.
-Infused Precision is the same as Furious Speed (Warrior), but triggers half as often and lasts half as long.

All of our Grandmasters are pretty bad, but there are also many other traits (like Scope) that are even more useless.

VIVorcha.7853:

ellesee.8297:

you’re level 20 crying for buffs.
next thread.

You say the same thing when a level 80 asks for buffs.

Why are you on these forums if you have nothing to contribute to discussion?

Our traitlines DO suck.

-One of our MAJOR GRANDMASTER traits is a MINOR ADEPT TRAIT for Rangers. 50% faster endurance regen IS NOT GRANDMASTER MATERIAL.
-Infused Precision is the same as Furious Speed (Warrior), but triggers half as often and lasts half as long.

All of our Grandmasters are pretty bad, but there are also many other traits (like Scope) that are even more useless.

He contributed more than you think he did , he made a valid point that the OP should be dismissed till they’re more experienced with the class…they clearly jumped the gun.

VIVorcha.7853:

ellesee.8297:

you’re level 20 crying for buffs.
next thread.

You say the same thing when a level 80 asks for buffs.

Why are you on these forums if you have nothing to contribute to discussion?

Our traitlines DO suck.

-One of our MAJOR GRANDMASTER traits is a MINOR ADEPT TRAIT for Rangers. 50% faster endurance regen IS NOT GRANDMASTER MATERIAL.
-Infused Precision is the same as Furious Speed (Warrior), but triggers half as often and lasts half as long.

All of our Grandmasters are pretty bad, but there are also many other traits (like Scope) that are even more useless.

Yeah i have noticed that some of the higher traits are a bit well, weak for the status that they are meant to have. Quite alot of traits in many trees need to be adjusted, of course that wont happen because Anet doesnt know what balance.

You pointed out just a few examples.

VIVorcha.7853:

ellesee.8297:

you’re level 20 crying for buffs.
next thread.

You say the same thing when a level 80 asks for buffs.

Why are you on these forums if you have nothing to contribute to discussion?

Our traitlines DO suck.

-One of our MAJOR GRANDMASTER traits is a MINOR ADEPT TRAIT for Rangers. 50% faster endurance regen IS NOT GRANDMASTER MATERIAL.
-Infused Precision is the same as Furious Speed (Warrior), but triggers half as often and lasts half as long.

All of our Grandmasters are pretty bad, but there are also many other traits (like Scope) that are even more useless.

And Necros have a Grandmaster trait that is equal to one of our Adept traits (XI-Dhuumfire vs. V-Incendiary Powder). It is worth a Grandmaster to a Necro because it drastically changes the way they can play a certain build and their effectiveness with it. It is their only source of burning, a very powerful condition on a powerful condition damage profession. That’s the definition of what a Grandmaster trait is meant to be, powerfully changing your build. It is worth an Adept trait to us because it doesn’t drastically change anything, just allows us to add some more consistent burning if we want it, on top of all the other sources of burning we have.

Similarly with Rangers (Natural Vigor vs XII-Adrenal Implant), they have a ton of ways to evade. They can evade without even using endurance. To them, 50% more endurance regeneration is not game changing because they have so many ways to evade anyhow. Adding a little bit more is not very significant in terms of their profession. To us, we don’t have anything like that. We have no way to evade without dodging. Our trait passively gives us more dodges, which is significant because we don’t have any way to evade besides a dodge.

I am not making any claims to how powerful any of these 4 traits are in terms of gameplay. We can stack Vigor very easily, so Adrenal Implants is usually not useful but that’s sort of an extenuating circumstance. I am only pointing out that saying “X profession has this trait in Adept tier, so should we!” is not really a valid argument because each profession is not designed to be identical. What’s very powerful for us is not necessarily very powerful on another profession, and vice versa.

To Op. The reason i love the engie and the community is because we love this class regardless of the issues(As much as we want them resolved. we play it.) Engie is the only class I have fun playing. So I struggled until I found a build that works for me and is fun to play. Its not easy AT ALL. I also agree with the trait lines. They’re aweful imo. Our grand master traits are horrible and our small traits arent worth anything much from adept up. Its frustrating and takes alot of time and patience.

Adamantium.3682:

snip snip

You didn’t mention the Infused Precision vs Furious Speed. What about that? Why should Warriors have a trait that is 4 times as effective but functions in basically the same way?

Dirame.8521:

Not many people will get the Engie at first glance. I was one of those people who didn’t “get” the engie and it seems you are too. One day, if you keep playing it, you will understand how large the possibilities are with the Engie and how they can sometimes even be more effective at support than even the Guardian.

That. All of that. Read it again if you missed it, as that is the most concise way to answer the OP.

There’s issues with the Engineer, but, coming from someone who has played all the classes to level 80 save Thief (ugh), there are issues with every class. Some more than others obviously. We have our share of problems, turrets being a big sticking point, but I wouldn’t go so far as say we’re underpowered.

Engineers are just a high skill cap class that requires a lot more work to have the same results that other classes achieve with a few button presses. If you stick with it and start to think outside of the class box, you’ll begin to understand the possibilities.

Engineers have some issues but we are not that bad. The game is very different for a low level Engi compared to a level 80 Engi. I did some quick tests when I levelled my second engineer just recently… and my conclusion is that you should try the bomb kit for levelling and see if you still feel the same way.
At level 20:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQBUioqndEL72IivCyF-jUxA5xioxW3KiGrWnIqWzg5VKiWtUAQsGA-w

Fighting is simple, grab a couple of mobs, blind and AoE. EG is your ultimate utility kit, it does a lot of stuff. You will also have a couple of fields and blast finishers to try some combos.

You can switch out the grenade kit if you want, that’s just my personal preference. My preferred heal skill is actually the medkit, but I found it fairly crappy at low levels. From lvl 20-40 I would work on alchemy traits towards backpack regenerator. After that go to the tools traits and get speedy kit.

Hopefully trying that out might give some little insight as to what an Engi is capable of.

P.S. Flamethrower looks cool and all, but it really isn’t for everyone.

Despite the low level of the OP every point made is valid. Alot of our abilities have problems, some thats been around since launch. Our turrets are crap both in stats and functionality, our elixirs are full of RNG (tho some of thats being changed next month). Only one gadget is ever used and thats Rocket boots, and thats only because it was changed to not be as stupid as the others.

I know theres always going to be fanboys that are blind to the problems of the class or the game it self, just as there is always going to be people who wont be happy until there class is the OP FotM class.
You just have to ignore the extremists at both ends only focus on what the people in the middle have to say, because they are the ones most likely telling the truth.

VIVorcha.7853:

Adamantium.3682:

snip snip

You didn’t mention the Infused Precision vs Furious Speed. What about that? Why should Warriors have a trait that is 4 times as effective but functions in basically the same way?

I didn’t feel I needed to mention every example of this in the game. I feel that I explained my stance on it pretty clearly through 2 examples. Professions are not designed to be the same so expecting a shared trait to be in the exact same location on both professions doesn’t make sense to me.

Adamantium.3682:

VIVorcha.7853:

Adamantium.3682:

snip snip

You didn’t mention the Infused Precision vs Furious Speed. What about that? Why should Warriors have a trait that is 4 times as effective but functions in basically the same way?

I didn’t feel I needed to mention every example of this in the game. I feel that I explained my stance on it pretty clearly through 2 examples. Professions are not designed to be the same so expecting a shared trait to be in the exact same location on both professions doesn’t make sense to me.

This isn’t about location. You didn’t read my post at all. It’s about Warriors having a trait identical to ours, except it’s four times as effective. It’s in the same place.

foundling fox.9054:

snip

Don’t worry, we’re all fully aware of the problems. Some of us hate them and spend most of our time wishing we were the same as warriors and guardians. Some of us lobby for bugfixes but already love the depth, synergy, flexibility, and pure fun of playing an engineer.

I main an engineer,and have been playing it since beta. I know our class still needs a couple tweaks here and there,however,it doesn’t inhibit my gameplay. It has the highest solo damage in the game right now with the right build. Also,you are level 20,you can’t expect to know your class instantly. You haven’t even reached level 80 yet,so it’s a little hard to pass judgement on a class you’ve only just played.

OP has a point though beyond the apparent plethora of problems. Whether you think the class is broken, perfect, or (reality) some where in between there is an issue. The class is not accessible to a casual player and is not friendly to someone just trying the class. There is a reason why engi is the least played class in gw2. Yes if you put time effort and really focus the engi is a viable class on par with other classes. Also yes some classes are easier to play than others. However the fact that so many people think the engi in unplayable when they first try it does point to a real problem. Now before all you fan boys get up in arms I love my engi and it will always be my main. I am not suggesting we make the harder builds less effective. Rather making a less effective build simpler for new players to slowly learn the engi and fall in love with the class like the rest of us. (fixing turrets could go a long way in helping this issue)
-Perdix

VIVorcha.7853:

ellesee.8297:

you’re level 20 crying for buffs.
next thread.

You say the same thing when a level 80 asks for buffs.

Why are you on these forums if you have nothing to contribute to discussion?

Our traitlines DO suck.

-One of our MAJOR GRANDMASTER traits is a MINOR ADEPT TRAIT for Rangers. 50% faster endurance regen IS NOT GRANDMASTER MATERIAL.
-Infused Precision is the same as Furious Speed (Warrior), but triggers half as often and lasts half as long.

All of our Grandmasters are pretty bad, but there are also many other traits (like Scope) that are even more useless.

Why do we need 50% faster endurance regen when we can have permanent vigor from kit swap or on crit with a 20 pt investment in lines that most players will run anyhow? That trait does not stack with vigor, the only time that trait is useful is if you are running a sd build which most likely you will be going 30 in tools anyhow.

If i go 30 in tools i want more damage not survivability , all of that is out the window when i chose to go zerker lol , the trait should be scrapped just like a few others. Heres my list of ones in need of buffing / scrapping.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evasive_Powder_Keg
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Autotool_Installation
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Metal_Plating
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kit_Refinement
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Adrenal_Implant
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armor_Mods
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Exploit_Weakness
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Shoes

Some of them are on this list because they are seemingly copy and pasted traits and a few should be simply merged.

P.S What in the world was i thinking by skipping over this trait?!
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Always_Prepared

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Why do we need 50% faster endurance regen when we can have permanent vigor from kit swap or on crit with a 20 pt investment in lines that most players will run anyhow? That trait does not stack with vigor, the only time that trait is useful is if you are running a sd build which most likely you will be going 30 in tools anyhow.

Even then you would still be better off taking another trait instead of adrenal implant and spending a few more points on alchemy if u wanted faster regen.
Consider that even if you forget to put up swiftness for half the time you play, invigorating speed would still be on par with adrenal implant.

Anyways we have some game changing skills, but there are other skills I would like to see completely changed.

Auto bomb dispenser: If you need defense for when disabled, protection injection (and stabilized armor to an extend) does it way better on a much much shorter cooldown.

Adrenal Implant: People have already stated why its not grandmaster worthy

Armor Mods: I’m actually half and half on this one….I guess aegis might save someone but at the same time it feels underwhelming. Maybe have a cd reduction on it.

The refresh rate applied by our smoke bombs are laughable…i guess thats one of the biggest pet peeves i had with our class atm

Penguin.5197:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Why do we need 50% faster endurance regen when we can have permanent vigor from kit swap or on crit with a 20 pt investment in lines that most players will run anyhow? That trait does not stack with vigor, the only time that trait is useful is if you are running a sd build which most likely you will be going 30 in tools anyhow.

Even then you would still be better off taking another trait instead of adrenal implant and spending a few more points on alchemy if u wanted faster regen.
Consider that even if you forget to put up swiftness for half the time you play, invigorating speed would still be on par with adrenal implant.

Anyways we have some game changing skills, but there are other skills I would like to see completely changed.

Auto bomb dispenser: If you need defense for when disabled, protection injection (and stabilized armor to an extend) does it way better on a much much shorter cooldown.

Adrenal Implant: People have already stated why its not grandmaster worthy

Armor Mods: I’m actually half and half on this one….I guess aegis might save someone but at the same time it feels underwhelming. Maybe have a cd reduction on it.

On demand vigor is on par with 50% endurance regen since when? Seriously if someone can’t figure out how/when to use vigor on demand effectively the issue is with the player not the trait. I should have been more clear in my post when I was saying that adrenal implant is mostly useless, but there are certain situations in which it can be of value. Either way the person I was responding too was complaining that engi’s 50% endurance regen is a 25 point and ranger’s is a 5 point. I was trying to draw attention to the fact that there is no need in trying to compare the two since we can literally have permanent vigor whenever we want with a 20 point investment. Don’t get me wrong there are some traits that are a bit out of place or under performing but that holds true for literally every single class.

ShadowPuppet.3746:

On demand vigor is on par with 50% endurance regen since when? Seriously if someone can’t figure out how/when to use vigor on demand effectively the issue is with the player not the trait. I should have been more clear in my post when I was saying that adrenal implant is mostly useless, but there are certain situations in which it can be of value. Either way the person I was responding too was complaining that engi’s 50% endurance regen is a 25 point and ranger’s is a 5 point. I was trying to draw attention to the fact that there is no need in trying to compare the two since we can literally have permanent vigor whenever we want with a 20 point investment. Don’t get me wrong there are some traits that are a bit out of place or under performing but that holds true for literally every single class.

No I meant that since vigor is 100% and adrenal is 50%, even if you forgot to get swiftness for half the time you played (and thus vigor) it would still be at least as good as adrenal and pretty much vigor is always the better option

Xhyros.1340:

Turrets are for pvp (rifle and healing work for pve though). Flamethrower auto sucks. It’s horrible. Don’t use it, ever. Grenades don’t do damage till level 60. Don’t autoattack with flamethrower. Bomb autos are strong if you like being all in your face, just make sure to use explosives III so they can hit. Stop using flamethrower autos, it may look cool, but it is not good for dealing damage. Rocket boots are like, awesome mobility. Make sure you have swiftness when using them for a further jump. I can tell you’re using flamethrower autos. What did I say about flamethrower autos?

Someone doesn’t know how to properly use the flamethrower.

Hint: There is a reason the trait line that effects the flamethrower just so happens to be the precision line.

TheOneNOnlyGeneralBama.9586:

The refresh rate applied by our smoke bombs are laughable…i guess thats one of the biggest pet peeves i had with our class atm

Used to be every second but got nerfed quickly after release. It’s still a great skill with the huge blind and smoke field. It was just too powerful pulsing every second—it was like the necro well of darkness except on a much shorter cooldown with five other great skills to go with it. I wouldn’t expect it to get changed back.

Arkham Creed.7358:

Xhyros.1340:

Turrets are for pvp (rifle and healing work for pve though). Flamethrower auto sucks. It’s horrible. Don’t use it, ever. Grenades don’t do damage till level 60. Don’t autoattack with flamethrower. Bomb autos are strong if you like being all in your face, just make sure to use explosives III so they can hit. Stop using flamethrower autos, it may look cool, but it is not good for dealing damage. Rocket boots are like, awesome mobility. Make sure you have swiftness when using them for a further jump. I can tell you’re using flamethrower autos. What did I say about flamethrower autos?

Someone doesn’t know how to properly use the flamethrower.

Hint: There is a reason the trait line that effects the flamethrower just so happens to be the precision line.

No seriously FT AA is terrible for damage. I mean possibly if you wan’t to make it proc bleeds or burns but um…. grenades will still do that better lol. I like the playstyle of the ft/eg combo so don’t get me wrong but yeah the aa is garbage for damage.

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Arkham Creed.7358:

Xhyros.1340:

Turrets are for pvp (rifle and healing work for pve though). Flamethrower auto sucks. It’s horrible. Don’t use it, ever. Grenades don’t do damage till level 60. Don’t autoattack with flamethrower. Bomb autos are strong if you like being all in your face, just make sure to use explosives III so they can hit. Stop using flamethrower autos, it may look cool, but it is not good for dealing damage. Rocket boots are like, awesome mobility. Make sure you have swiftness when using them for a further jump. I can tell you’re using flamethrower autos. What did I say about flamethrower autos?

Someone doesn’t know how to properly use the flamethrower.

Hint: There is a reason the trait line that effects the flamethrower just so happens to be the precision line.

No seriously FT AA is terrible for damage. I mean possibly if you wan’t to make it proc bleeds or burns but um…. grenades will still do that better lol. I like the playstyle of the ft/eg combo so don’t get me wrong but yeah the aa is garbage for damage.

Going from “terrible for damage” to “don’t use it” displays a pretty big lack of understanding of what the skill is for. Yes; the damage is less than impressive (unless….), but that doesn’t mean you should just outright say “never use flamethrower autos” because the skill actually is extremely useful if you have the right build and know what you’re doing.

Arkham Creed.7358:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Arkham Creed.7358:

Xhyros.1340:

Turrets are for pvp (rifle and healing work for pve though). Flamethrower auto sucks. It’s horrible. Don’t use it, ever. Grenades don’t do damage till level 60. Don’t autoattack with flamethrower. Bomb autos are strong if you like being all in your face, just make sure to use explosives III so they can hit. Stop using flamethrower autos, it may look cool, but it is not good for dealing damage. Rocket boots are like, awesome mobility. Make sure you have swiftness when using them for a further jump. I can tell you’re using flamethrower autos. What did I say about flamethrower autos?

Someone doesn’t know how to properly use the flamethrower.

Hint: There is a reason the trait line that effects the flamethrower just so happens to be the precision line.

No seriously FT AA is terrible for damage. I mean possibly if you wan’t to make it proc bleeds or burns but um…. grenades will still do that better lol. I like the playstyle of the ft/eg combo so don’t get me wrong but yeah the aa is garbage for damage.

Going from “terrible for damage” to “don’t use it” displays a pretty big lack of understanding of what the skill is for. Yes; the damage is less than impressive (unless….), but that doesn’t mean you should just outright say “never use flamethrower autos” because the skill actually is extremely useful if you have the right build and know what you’re doing.

I wasn’t the person you originally were responding to. The point still stands though (especially in pve) where it literally is a damage loss over any other option we have except maybe pistol auto. It is not particularly useful as a vuln stacker, or condition applier compared to grenades. It is however great for tagging mobs easily, but that is seriously the only reason to use the ft aa in pve. Juggernaut is a selfish trait in terms of adding might since it only applies to you, and requires that you spend more time in the ft than needed to maintain those might stacks. As an example the ft when traited and at 25 might and vuln you might get 7-8k damage from the entire 2.5s channel? Bomb auto can do 8.5k in the same circumstances per .9s attack (yes I know the bomb is .5s cast time but there is a .4s aftercast). Now since you have said multiple times that if someone knows how to use the ft correctly or knows how to build, but have not said what your scenarios are in which the ft auto is useful, perhaps you could explain the basis for your assertion?

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Arkham Creed.7358:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Arkham Creed.7358:

Xhyros.1340:

Turrets are for pvp (rifle and healing work for pve though). Flamethrower auto sucks. It’s horrible. Don’t use it, ever. Grenades don’t do damage till level 60. Don’t autoattack with flamethrower. Bomb autos are strong if you like being all in your face, just make sure to use explosives III so they can hit. Stop using flamethrower autos, it may look cool, but it is not good for dealing damage. Rocket boots are like, awesome mobility. Make sure you have swiftness when using them for a further jump. I can tell you’re using flamethrower autos. What did I say about flamethrower autos?

Someone doesn’t know how to properly use the flamethrower.

Hint: There is a reason the trait line that effects the flamethrower just so happens to be the precision line.

No seriously FT AA is terrible for damage. I mean possibly if you wan’t to make it proc bleeds or burns but um…. grenades will still do that better lol. I like the playstyle of the ft/eg combo so don’t get me wrong but yeah the aa is garbage for damage.

Going from “terrible for damage” to “don’t use it” displays a pretty big lack of understanding of what the skill is for. Yes; the damage is less than impressive (unless….), but that doesn’t mean you should just outright say “never use flamethrower autos” because the skill actually is extremely useful if you have the right build and know what you’re doing.

I wasn’t the person you originally were responding to. The point still stands though (especially in pve) where it literally is a damage loss over any other option we have except maybe pistol auto. It is not particularly useful as a vuln stacker, or condition applier compared to grenades. It is however great for tagging mobs easily, but that is seriously the only reason to use the ft aa in pve. Juggernaut is a selfish trait in terms of adding might since it only applies to you, and requires that you spend more time in the ft than needed to maintain those might stacks. As an example the ft when traited and at 25 might and vuln you might get 7-8k damage from the entire 2.5s channel? Bomb auto can do 8.5k in the same circumstances per .9s attack (yes I know the bomb is .5s cast time but there is a .4s aftercast. Now since you have said multiple times that if someone knows how to use the ft correctly or knows how to build, perhaps you can explain the situation where ft aa is useful that isn’t simply for tagging mobs for loot in a zerg.

And how much is that damage when you factor in the constant burning and ever growing bleed stacks? Then when you add a nice on-crit sigil, what happens? If you’re only using the might and vulnerability you’re not reaching your full potential. Plus you have to factor in how much easier it is to strike multiple foes with the flamethrower than the bomb kit. In my opinion the raw damage to ease of use ratio should be considered when determining a given skill’s overall viability.

If there is a “right way” to make the FT auto attack good, I’d love to hear it as well!

foundling fox.9054:

And so far as I’ve seen, it’s not like the Engineer is a class that generates a butt ton of boons.

Fail.

Arkham Creed.7358:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Arkham Creed.7358:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Arkham Creed.7358:

Xhyros.1340:

Turrets are for pvp (rifle and healing work for pve though). Flamethrower auto sucks. It’s horrible. Don’t use it, ever. Grenades don’t do damage till level 60. Don’t autoattack with flamethrower. Bomb autos are strong if you like being all in your face, just make sure to use explosives III so they can hit. Stop using flamethrower autos, it may look cool, but it is not good for dealing damage. Rocket boots are like, awesome mobility. Make sure you have swiftness when using them for a further jump. I can tell you’re using flamethrower autos. What did I say about flamethrower autos?

Someone doesn’t know how to properly use the flamethrower.

Hint: There is a reason the trait line that effects the flamethrower just so happens to be the precision line.

No seriously FT AA is terrible for damage. I mean possibly if you wan’t to make it proc bleeds or burns but um…. grenades will still do that better lol. I like the playstyle of the ft/eg combo so don’t get me wrong but yeah the aa is garbage for damage.

Going from “terrible for damage” to “don’t use it” displays a pretty big lack of understanding of what the skill is for. Yes; the damage is less than impressive (unless….), but that doesn’t mean you should just outright say “never use flamethrower autos” because the skill actually is extremely useful if you have the right build and know what you’re doing.

I wasn’t the person you originally were responding to. The point still stands though (especially in pve) where it literally is a damage loss over any other option we have except maybe pistol auto. It is not particularly useful as a vuln stacker, or condition applier compared to grenades. It is however great for tagging mobs easily, but that is seriously the only reason to use the ft aa in pve. Juggernaut is a selfish trait in terms of adding might since it only applies to you, and requires that you spend more time in the ft than needed to maintain those might stacks. As an example the ft when traited and at 25 might and vuln you might get 7-8k damage from the entire 2.5s channel? Bomb auto can do 8.5k in the same circumstances per .9s attack (yes I know the bomb is .5s cast time but there is a .4s aftercast. Now since you have said multiple times that if someone knows how to use the ft correctly or knows how to build, perhaps you can explain the situation where ft aa is useful that isn’t simply for tagging mobs for loot in a zerg.

And how much is that damage when you factor in the constant burning and ever growing bleed stacks? Then when you add a nice on-crit sigil, what happens? If you’re only using the might and vulnerability you’re not reaching your full potential. Plus you have to factor in how much easier it is to strike multiple foes with the flamethrower than the bomb kit. In my opinion the raw damage to ease of use ratio should be considered when determining a given skill’s overall viability.

Bomb is a full 360 degree attack you don’t even need to aim just be in the general vicinity. Yes the burning and bleeding add some damage but c’mon, you really think it is going to match up to 8.5k? Seriously ft aa is horrible hands down don’t use it.

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Arkham Creed.7358:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Arkham Creed.7358:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Arkham Creed.7358:

Xhyros.1340:

Turrets are for pvp (rifle and healing work for pve though). Flamethrower auto sucks. It’s horrible. Don’t use it, ever. Grenades don’t do damage till level 60. Don’t autoattack with flamethrower. Bomb autos are strong if you like being all in your face, just make sure to use explosives III so they can hit. Stop using flamethrower autos, it may look cool, but it is not good for dealing damage. Rocket boots are like, awesome mobility. Make sure you have swiftness when using them for a further jump. I can tell you’re using flamethrower autos. What did I say about flamethrower autos?

Someone doesn’t know how to properly use the flamethrower.

Hint: There is a reason the trait line that effects the flamethrower just so happens to be the precision line.

No seriously FT AA is terrible for damage. I mean possibly if you wan’t to make it proc bleeds or burns but um…. grenades will still do that better lol. I like the playstyle of the ft/eg combo so don’t get me wrong but yeah the aa is garbage for damage.

Going from “terrible for damage” to “don’t use it” displays a pretty big lack of understanding of what the skill is for. Yes; the damage is less than impressive (unless….), but that doesn’t mean you should just outright say “never use flamethrower autos” because the skill actually is extremely useful if you have the right build and know what you’re doing.

I wasn’t the person you originally were responding to. The point still stands though (especially in pve) where it literally is a damage loss over any other option we have except maybe pistol auto. It is not particularly useful as a vuln stacker, or condition applier compared to grenades. It is however great for tagging mobs easily, but that is seriously the only reason to use the ft aa in pve. Juggernaut is a selfish trait in terms of adding might since it only applies to you, and requires that you spend more time in the ft than needed to maintain those might stacks. As an example the ft when traited and at 25 might and vuln you might get 7-8k damage from the entire 2.5s channel? Bomb auto can do 8.5k in the same circumstances per .9s attack (yes I know the bomb is .5s cast time but there is a .4s aftercast. Now since you have said multiple times that if someone knows how to use the ft correctly or knows how to build, perhaps you can explain the situation where ft aa is useful that isn’t simply for tagging mobs for loot in a zerg.

And how much is that damage when you factor in the constant burning and ever growing bleed stacks? Then when you add a nice on-crit sigil, what happens? If you’re only using the might and vulnerability you’re not reaching your full potential. Plus you have to factor in how much easier it is to strike multiple foes with the flamethrower than the bomb kit. In my opinion the raw damage to ease of use ratio should be considered when determining a given skill’s overall viability.

Bomb is a full 360 degree attack you don’t even need to aim just be in the general vicinity. Yes the burning and bleeding add some damage but c’mon, you really think it is going to match up to 8.5k? Seriously ft aa is horrible hands down don’t use it.

Bombs are also close range, the flamethrower attacks from distance and keeps you safe. And again; yes the flamethrower auto attack is bad for damage, but that doesn’t mean you have to use it for damage. It is a buff/debuff attack depending on what kind of on-crit procs you have.

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Arkham Creed.7358:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Arkham Creed.7358:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Arkham Creed.7358:

Xhyros.1340:

Turrets are for pvp (rifle and healing work for pve though). Flamethrower auto sucks. It’s horrible. Don’t use it, ever. Grenades don’t do damage till level 60. Don’t autoattack with flamethrower. Bomb autos are strong if you like being all in your face, just make sure to use explosives III so they can hit. Stop using flamethrower autos, it may look cool, but it is not good for dealing damage. Rocket boots are like, awesome mobility. Make sure you have swiftness when using them for a further jump. I can tell you’re using flamethrower autos. What did I say about flamethrower autos?

Someone doesn’t know how to properly use the flamethrower.

Hint: There is a reason the trait line that effects the flamethrower just so happens to be the precision line.

No seriously FT AA is terrible for damage. I mean possibly if you wan’t to make it proc bleeds or burns but um…. grenades will still do that better lol. I like the playstyle of the ft/eg combo so don’t get me wrong but yeah the aa is garbage for damage.

Going from “terrible for damage” to “don’t use it” displays a pretty big lack of understanding of what the skill is for. Yes; the damage is less than impressive (unless….), but that doesn’t mean you should just outright say “never use flamethrower autos” because the skill actually is extremely useful if you have the right build and know what you’re doing.

I wasn’t the person you originally were responding to. The point still stands though (especially in pve) where it literally is a damage loss over any other option we have except maybe pistol auto. It is not particularly useful as a vuln stacker, or condition applier compared to grenades. It is however great for tagging mobs easily, but that is seriously the only reason to use the ft aa in pve. Juggernaut is a selfish trait in terms of adding might since it only applies to you, and requires that you spend more time in the ft than needed to maintain those might stacks. As an example the ft when traited and at 25 might and vuln you might get 7-8k damage from the entire 2.5s channel? Bomb auto can do 8.5k in the same circumstances per .9s attack (yes I know the bomb is .5s cast time but there is a .4s aftercast. Now since you have said multiple times that if someone knows how to use the ft correctly or knows how to build, perhaps you can explain the situation where ft aa is useful that isn’t simply for tagging mobs for loot in a zerg.

And how much is that damage when you factor in the constant burning and ever growing bleed stacks? Then when you add a nice on-crit sigil, what happens? If you’re only using the might and vulnerability you’re not reaching your full potential. Plus you have to factor in how much easier it is to strike multiple foes with the flamethrower than the bomb kit. In my opinion the raw damage to ease of use ratio should be considered when determining a given skill’s overall viability.

Bomb is a full 360 degree attack you don’t even need to aim just be in the general vicinity. Yes the burning and bleeding add some damage but c’mon, you really think it is going to match up to 8.5k? Seriously ft aa is horrible hands down don’t use it.

The Bomb Kit does not auto-attack for 8.5K on every mob in the game. Please stop using it as a goalpost for other kits to strive towards.

Arkham Creed.7358:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Arkham Creed.7358:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Arkham Creed.7358:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Arkham Creed.7358:

Xhyros.1340:

Turrets are for pvp (rifle and healing work for pve though). Flamethrower auto sucks. It’s horrible. Don’t use it, ever. Grenades don’t do damage till level 60. Don’t autoattack with flamethrower. Bomb autos are strong if you like being all in your face, just make sure to use explosives III so they can hit. Stop using flamethrower autos, it may look cool, but it is not good for dealing damage. Rocket boots are like, awesome mobility. Make sure you have swiftness when using them for a further jump. I can tell you’re using flamethrower autos. What did I say about flamethrower autos?

Someone doesn’t know how to properly use the flamethrower.

Hint: There is a reason the trait line that effects the flamethrower just so happens to be the precision line.

No seriously FT AA is terrible for damage. I mean possibly if you wan’t to make it proc bleeds or burns but um…. grenades will still do that better lol. I like the playstyle of the ft/eg combo so don’t get me wrong but yeah the aa is garbage for damage.

Going from “terrible for damage” to “don’t use it” displays a pretty big lack of understanding of what the skill is for. Yes; the damage is less than impressive (unless….), but that doesn’t mean you should just outright say “never use flamethrower autos” because the skill actually is extremely useful if you have the right build and know what you’re doing.

I wasn’t the person you originally were responding to. The point still stands though (especially in pve) where it literally is a damage loss over any other option we have except maybe pistol auto. It is not particularly useful as a vuln stacker, or condition applier compared to grenades. It is however great for tagging mobs easily, but that is seriously the only reason to use the ft aa in pve. Juggernaut is a selfish trait in terms of adding might since it only applies to you, and requires that you spend more time in the ft than needed to maintain those might stacks. As an example the ft when traited and at 25 might and vuln you might get 7-8k damage from the entire 2.5s channel? Bomb auto can do 8.5k in the same circumstances per .9s attack (yes I know the bomb is .5s cast time but there is a .4s aftercast. Now since you have said multiple times that if someone knows how to use the ft correctly or knows how to build, perhaps you can explain the situation where ft aa is useful that isn’t simply for tagging mobs for loot in a zerg.

And how much is that damage when you factor in the constant burning and ever growing bleed stacks? Then when you add a nice on-crit sigil, what happens? If you’re only using the might and vulnerability you’re not reaching your full potential. Plus you have to factor in how much easier it is to strike multiple foes with the flamethrower than the bomb kit. In my opinion the raw damage to ease of use ratio should be considered when determining a given skill’s overall viability.

Bomb is a full 360 degree attack you don’t even need to aim just be in the general vicinity. Yes the burning and bleeding add some damage but c’mon, you really think it is going to match up to 8.5k? Seriously ft aa is horrible hands down don’t use it.

Bombs are also close range, the flamethrower attacks from distance and keeps you safe. And again; yes the flamethrower auto attack is bad for damage, but that doesn’t mean you have to use it for damage. It is a buff/debuff attack depending on what kind of on-crit procs you have.

I guess I am just one of those zany engineers that spends their time in melee range even when using grenades. Perma vigor is my friend! As far as buff/debuff goes, yes technically speaking because of the large amounts of hits that happen per second it is good for proccing since you will be guaranteed to get a proc, but almost every sigil and trait has a cd on crit effects. Precise sights does not and sharpshooter does not,but again gk vuln and bleed stacks better when built for it and. incendiary powder is a single target only. You can use the swift on crit to trigger invigorating speed for vigor, but chances are if you are running 0/25/0/20/25 you will have speedy kits. I just am not seeing the usefulness of the aa. But look if you like using it go ahead and do so, people can play how they wish, just be aware that not all options are created equal.

Phineas Poe.3018:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Arkham Creed.7358:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Arkham Creed.7358:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Arkham Creed.7358:

Xhyros.1340:

Turrets are for pvp (rifle and healing work for pve though). Flamethrower auto sucks. It’s horrible. Don’t use it, ever. Grenades don’t do damage till level 60. Don’t autoattack with flamethrower. Bomb autos are strong if you like being all in your face, just make sure to use explosives III so they can hit. Stop using flamethrower autos, it may look cool, but it is not good for dealing damage. Rocket boots are like, awesome mobility. Make sure you have swiftness when using them for a further jump. I can tell you’re using flamethrower autos. What did I say about flamethrower autos?

Someone doesn’t know how to properly use the flamethrower.

Hint: There is a reason the trait line that effects the flamethrower just so happens to be the precision line.

No seriously FT AA is terrible for damage. I mean possibly if you wan’t to make it proc bleeds or burns but um…. grenades will still do that better lol. I like the playstyle of the ft/eg combo so don’t get me wrong but yeah the aa is garbage for damage.

Going from “terrible for damage” to “don’t use it” displays a pretty big lack of understanding of what the skill is for. Yes; the damage is less than impressive (unless….), but that doesn’t mean you should just outright say “never use flamethrower autos” because the skill actually is extremely useful if you have the right build and know what you’re doing.

I wasn’t the person you originally were responding to. The point still stands though (especially in pve) where it literally is a damage loss over any other option we have except maybe pistol auto. It is not particularly useful as a vuln stacker, or condition applier compared to grenades. It is however great for tagging mobs easily, but that is seriously the only reason to use the ft aa in pve. Juggernaut is a selfish trait in terms of adding might since it only applies to you, and requires that you spend more time in the ft than needed to maintain those might stacks. As an example the ft when traited and at 25 might and vuln you might get 7-8k damage from the entire 2.5s channel? Bomb auto can do 8.5k in the same circumstances per .9s attack (yes I know the bomb is .5s cast time but there is a .4s aftercast. Now since you have said multiple times that if someone knows how to use the ft correctly or knows how to build, perhaps you can explain the situation where ft aa is useful that isn’t simply for tagging mobs for loot in a zerg.

And how much is that damage when you factor in the constant burning and ever growing bleed stacks? Then when you add a nice on-crit sigil, what happens? If you’re only using the might and vulnerability you’re not reaching your full potential. Plus you have to factor in how much easier it is to strike multiple foes with the flamethrower than the bomb kit. In my opinion the raw damage to ease of use ratio should be considered when determining a given skill’s overall viability.

Bomb is a full 360 degree attack you don’t even need to aim just be in the general vicinity. Yes the burning and bleeding add some damage but c’mon, you really think it is going to match up to 8.5k? Seriously ft aa is horrible hands down don’t use it.

The Bomb Kit does not auto-attack for 8.5K on every mob in the game. Please stop using it as a goalpost for other kits to strive towards.

It was a figurative example. Of course it does not on every mob in the game, but I am not wrong about drawing the comparison. I know you like the ft Phin, and more power to you. But you yourself even state in your guides that the ft is not a dps weapon right? At least not compared to other options available to the engineer. The general point (actual numbers aside because it is too late to start breaking out skill coefficients) is that the ft auto really does not perform a function that another setup could not do better. Now listen I admit, my view is based entirely on doing as much damage as possible while still providing support through group might and vuln and clearing conditions through the eg if need be, but I don’t need to trait for the condi clear part to work.

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Arkham Creed.7358:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Arkham Creed.7358:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Arkham Creed.7358:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Arkham Creed.7358:

Xhyros.1340:

Turrets are for pvp (rifle and healing work for pve though). Flamethrower auto sucks. It’s horrible. Don’t use it, ever. Grenades don’t do damage till level 60. Don’t autoattack with flamethrower. Bomb autos are strong if you like being all in your face, just make sure to use explosives III so they can hit. Stop using flamethrower autos, it may look cool, but it is not good for dealing damage. Rocket boots are like, awesome mobility. Make sure you have swiftness when using them for a further jump. I can tell you’re using flamethrower autos. What did I say about flamethrower autos?

Someone doesn’t know how to properly use the flamethrower.

Hint: There is a reason the trait line that effects the flamethrower just so happens to be the precision line.

No seriously FT AA is terrible for damage. I mean possibly if you wan’t to make it proc bleeds or burns but um…. grenades will still do that better lol. I like the playstyle of the ft/eg combo so don’t get me wrong but yeah the aa is garbage for damage.

Going from “terrible for damage” to “don’t use it” displays a pretty big lack of understanding of what the skill is for. Yes; the damage is less than impressive (unless….), but that doesn’t mean you should just outright say “never use flamethrower autos” because the skill actually is extremely useful if you have the right build and know what you’re doing.

I wasn’t the person you originally were responding to. The point still stands though (especially in pve) where it literally is a damage loss over any other option we have except maybe pistol auto. It is not particularly useful as a vuln stacker, or condition applier compared to grenades. It is however great for tagging mobs easily, but that is seriously the only reason to use the ft aa in pve. Juggernaut is a selfish trait in terms of adding might since it only applies to you, and requires that you spend more time in the ft than needed to maintain those might stacks. As an example the ft when traited and at 25 might and vuln you might get 7-8k damage from the entire 2.5s channel? Bomb auto can do 8.5k in the same circumstances per .9s attack (yes I know the bomb is .5s cast time but there is a .4s aftercast. Now since you have said multiple times that if someone knows how to use the ft correctly or knows how to build, perhaps you can explain the situation where ft aa is useful that isn’t simply for tagging mobs for loot in a zerg.

And how much is that damage when you factor in the constant burning and ever growing bleed stacks? Then when you add a nice on-crit sigil, what happens? If you’re only using the might and vulnerability you’re not reaching your full potential. Plus you have to factor in how much easier it is to strike multiple foes with the flamethrower than the bomb kit. In my opinion the raw damage to ease of use ratio should be considered when determining a given skill’s overall viability.

Bomb is a full 360 degree attack you don’t even need to aim just be in the general vicinity. Yes the burning and bleeding add some damage but c’mon, you really think it is going to match up to 8.5k? Seriously ft aa is horrible hands down don’t use it.

Bombs are also close range, the flamethrower attacks from distance and keeps you safe. And again; yes the flamethrower auto attack is bad for damage, but that doesn’t mean you have to use it for damage. It is a buff/debuff attack depending on what kind of on-crit procs you have.

I guess I am just one of those zany engineers that spends their time in melee range even when using grenades. Perma vigor is my friend! As far as buff/debuff goes, yes technically speaking because of the large amounts of hits that happen per second it is good for proccing since you will be guaranteed to get a proc, but almost every sigil and trait has a cd on crit effects. Precise sights does not and sharpshooter does not,but again gk vuln and bleed stacks better when built for it and. incendiary powder is a single target only. You can use the swift on crit to trigger invigorating speed for vigor, but chances are if you are running 0/25/0/20/25 you will have speedy kits. I just am not seeing the usefulness of the aa. But look if you like using it go ahead and do so, people can play how they wish, just be aware that not all options are created equal.

Different builds for different uses I guess. For how I play the flamethrower is just fine, and considering that I’ve soloed champs during Scarlet’s invasions with it I don’t see a need to change.

I’ve found that engineers follow the “linear warriors, cubed mages” thing, where their potential really shows up in later levels. Engineers are about being the jack of trades, master of none, and the way this was accomplished was by giving engineers a lot of abilities, but later in their trait lines.

Take explosives, for example. For the first 10 points you get a barely noticeable bomb dodge, then nothing too spectacular: a size change, a bit of boon removal, and a few procs which are only useful in certain builds and circumstances. But hit the master tier, and suddenly you’re stuck with too many good choices to choose from:

Explosive Powder: damage increase to the two most damaging abilities the engi has.
Short Fuse: recharge reduction to the two most damaging abilities the engi has.
Accelerant-Packed Turrets: ridiculous interrupt + stun potential for PVP/WvW
Enhance Peformance: Epic might stacking that is arguably better than HGH

Then in grandmaster you get grenadier, which in combination allows you to stack massive amounts of vulnerability, bleeds, and do so in an AoE at great range while hitting up to 5 targets. The hardest part about making a grenadier build is that you only get one master trait slot, and there’s 3 really awesome traits that are just perfect for you there.

With the next Patch we get Stability and Stealth 5 Sek. And they will have a look at the traits.

I hope they will do the right thing.