Guild Wars 2

That’s about it. Access to every condition, ridiculous survivability, and strong damage.

Enjoy it. Maybe someday Arenanet will wise up and nerf you. In the meantime, you get zero respect.

Terrible condi removal and slim on stun breakers unless you want to use up your kit slots. Must be a thief

Huh? Torment and fear don’t come naturally. Got to pick up sigils and runes for those and in that respect then every class has access to fear and torment.

You’ve got to be a little more specific on what game mode you’re talking about.
This has got the signs of a rage post, so I’m going to say PvP because engineers aren’t too shabby in PvE.

Yep I’m a thief. And this isn’t rock paper scissors, so one class shouldn’t be able to insta-kill another just because of class choice.

Pawstruck.9708:

Yep I’m a thief. And this isn’t rock paper scissors, so one class shouldn’t be able to insta-kill another just because of class choice.

Thief is the one class in the game that every build/class thinks about when they make a build the other is probably a necro. The extremes of unsuspecting direct damage burst and condi spike.

applied disbelief.8763:

Pawstruck.9708:

Yep I’m a thief. And this isn’t rock paper scissors, so one class shouldn’t be able to insta-kill another just because of class choice.

Pawstruck.9708:

Yep I’m a thief… one class shouldn’t be able to insta-kill another

Just let that sit for a minute.

I can’t apply enough disbelief.

Nade/bomb engis counter thieves EXTREMELY hard because of all the PBAoE you can spam at your feet when the thief tries to go in stealth or backstab. Thats just how it is

Pawstruck.9708:

Yep I’m a thief. And this isn’t rock paper scissors, so one class shouldn’t be able to insta-kill another just because of class choice.

Unbelievable… You must be standing perfectly still to be killed by grenades and must be tailing an engie that’s using bombs.

How exactly were you killed with stealth again? It’s not that Engies are hilariously OP; it’s that you’re hilariously terrible as seen from other replies on this post lol.

I guess the op just got his kitten handed by an engi and now throws a kitten fit. I mean how much you wanna nerf the engi till you “respect” them? How about we replace the class right away with a tree that does nothing? Or wait.. how about we right away give the engi 10 perma torment stacks? Would that nerf it enough to get your “respect” (that probably nobody cares about anyways)? Or should a-net just put in a script to make em drop dead right away if you are about to loose? Geez.. i SUCK in pvp related stuff specially if i come across a necro.. i guess i gonna go over to the necro forum and post something to nerf em…

Lemme tell you a secret OP, Engie may beat thief, but a condi necro so much as looks at an engie and the poor engie is dead.

Imagine that, counter classes.

P.S. P/D condi thief does pretty decent against Engie

Pawstruck.9708:

That’s about it. Access to every condition, ridiculous survivability, and strong damage.

you forgot that he gets trashed by any kind of stunchain or condition spam. we can’t block and dodge forever. any team with a hambow or necro (which is about every team in this meta) should be able to take engineers down on the fly. l2p, dude.

Pawstruck.9708:

Yep I’m a thief … one class shouldn’t be able to insta-kill another just because of class choice.

i lold so hard my butt fell off. i was taking you semi-seriously until your second post. at this point to went from unaware to hilarious.

Pawstruck.9708:

Yep I’m a thief. And this isn’t rock paper scissors, so one class shouldn’t be able to insta-kill another just because of class choice.

So when you go around one shotting an Ele it’s ok but if an Engineer uses AoE at his feet in a blind attempt to kill the thief trying to land a ridiculously cheap attack from stealth……it’s a problem?

Crazy……..logic…….hurt……brain……but…so…funny.

omg)

remove perplexity engies from game it’s the only easy mode on roaming engi, all other, just try to not spam skill 2 2 2 and using 10+ skills, then tell how it’s easy to insta kill someone on engi.
GG

Pawstruck.9708:

Yep I’m a thief. And this isn’t rock paper scissors, so one class shouldn’t be able to insta-kill another just because of class choice.

but we die from necros and guardians die from mesmers…. at least you have to do some things right to be ok with an engi , while thief at least b4 the recent patches had the perma stealth and press 3 for the win builds that my dead cat could play using its paws

it’s funny, I’ve got nothing but nerfs to my builds last 3 patches, but the hate was never stronger. I’ve had countless players join my group lately to trash talk me for being a fotm engineer with dire and perplexity, because you know, confusion = perplexity, conditions = dire, always.

This thread really made my day, hadn’t had such a good laugh in weeks. I don’t want to say it’s a l2p issue.. but.. lets face it as it is.. it’s a l2p issue. I bet OP’s the kind of guy who found and imb4 ultr4 1337 cheesemode!!!!111oneoneeleven guide on the forum, doesn’t know half of what he’s doing and why (but teh guide said i’ll be OP :’( ) and any engi out there would tear him to pieces by slapping his keyboard with the flat of his hand while laughing like a madman…

tl;dr: l2p dude.

No offence dude but I’m not sure someone who’s at the level of spamming heartseeker over and over like I saw you doing in hotjoin yesterday has much of relevance/interest to say about class balance. If you really think engys are OP or are struggling with them you should try rolling one and playing it in spvp some to try and get a feel for their weaknesses and learn to counter them, starting a QQ thread on the forum isn’t going to accomplish anything other than getting you laughed at.

Just run shadow’s embrace…. Or you can just run away cause thief has truck tons of mobility ( less than warrior ).

applied disbelief.8763:

Pawstruck.9708:

Yep I’m a thief. And this isn’t rock paper scissors, so one class shouldn’t be able to insta-kill another just because of class choice.

Pawstruck.9708:

Yep I’m a thief… one class shouldn’t be able to insta-kill another

Just let that sit for a minute.

Post of the month… on second thought, maybe of the year.

I play a thief and an engineer. A thief does have a hard time with an engineer, but it certainly isn’t impossible. Similarly, a necromancer has a quite easy time with an engineer but that too isn’t impossible.

The problem is that the traditional way you rotate skills and play as a thief (especially backstab/sd) plays right to our strengths. On the other hand, moving to a CND d/d model and engaging in backstab/flee/backstab/hit turret and flee model works pretty darn well. You have to be better at timing the backstab (you always get to start the fight) and then shadowstepping away. If I luck into guessing which direction you went, beware of the condi pain. Otherwise, don’t stay around longer than the backstab and one or two attacks and just rinse and repeat frequently. We go down quickly. Use basilisk venom to ensure we can’t condi dump on you for your second backstab attempt.

applied disbelief.8763:

Pawstruck.9708:

Yep I’m a thief. And this isn’t rock paper scissors, so one class shouldn’t be able to insta-kill another just because of class choice.

Pawstruck.9708:

Yep I’m a thief… one class shouldn’t be able to insta-kill another

Just let that sit for a minute.

Op thief vs engi is kinda of a hard match up for a thief. Just like engi vs necro can be hard for engi. Engis have a high skill ceiling are really strong if play well but I don’t think they are op.

Though there has been increased qq about engis lately.

vincecontix.1264:

Though there has been increased qq about engis lately.

There is a lot of QQing because people simply don’t understand the engineer and don’t want to either. They get killed, they run off to the forums and shout “NERF PLX! kthxbye” (see OP). I mean, the engineers skill floor is higher than the skill ceiling of most classes, but besides that, people simply don’t open their eyes. How often do I laugh myself nearly to death when guards, thiefs, necros tailgate me while I stroll around and kite them to death, how often do I see ranged classes simply standing there getting wrecked by grenades and the ONLY thing they don’t do is dodging… or getting away.. but 10 minutes later you’ll find them QQing in the forums.

Werkuh.2579:

There is a lot of QQing because people simply don’t understand the engineer and don’t want to either. They get killed, they run off to the forums and shout “NERF PLX! kthxbye” (see OP). I mean, the engineers skill floor is higher than the skill ceiling of most classes, but besides that, people simply don’t open their eyes. How often do I laugh myself nearly to death when guards, thiefs, necros tailgate me while I stroll around and kite them to death, how often do I see ranged classes simply standing there getting wrecked by grenades and the ONLY thing they don’t do is dodging… or getting away.. but 10 minutes later you’ll find them QQing in the forums.

This 100 times. Engineer is very versatile and every engineer will have a different spec, but consider that the skill ceiling is higher…I don’t believe engineer is harder to play than any other class as anyone can spam grenades or bombs, but I believe it’s harder to play very well. People cba to learn how to counter engineer and the answer is kite or cc. Stick at range and attack (except rangers lul) or use cc. Condi necro will 100-0 most engineers still, zerk necro is also a tough matchup.

applied disbelief.8763:

Pawstruck.9708:

Yep I’m a thief. And this isn’t rock paper scissors, so one class shouldn’t be able to insta-kill another just because of class choice.

Pawstruck.9708:

Yep I’m a thief… one class shouldn’t be able to insta-kill another

Just let that sit for a minute.

Nice quoting, bro.

Regardless of who’s saying it, true is true. This class needs hard nerfs. The class with the best might, vuln, and healing capabilities should NOT also be top DPS, that’s just silly.

Cough
Updated DPS rankings
April tiers:
Elementalist: 100 (1)
Mesmer: 99.75 (-.25)
Thief: 97 (-1)
Necromancer: 79 (4)
Guardian: 79 (-1)
Warrior : 72 (-6)
Engineer: 66 (+2)
Ranger: 62 (no change)

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/91039-updated-dps-rankings-april-2014/

What’s up?

Thyend.3692:

Cough
Updated DPS rankings
April tiers:
Elementalist: 100 (1)
Mesmer: 99.75 (-.25)
Thief: 97 (-1)
Necromancer: 79 (4)
Guardian: 79 (-1)
Warrior : 72 (-6)
Engineer: 66 (+2)
Ranger: 62 (no change)

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/91039-updated-dps-rankings-april-2014/

What’s up?

But surely this is just some person on the forums stating his or her opinion…

Who posted it?

>GuanglaiKangyi

Oh man, this thread.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Regardless of who’s saying it, true is true. This class needs hard nerfs. The class with the best might, vuln, and healing capabilities should NOT also be top DPS, that’s just silly.

actually we aren’t the best at stacking might anymore, maximum might stacks (about equal to eles)
magnetic intervention = Phoenix
Acid bomb = Arcane Wave
BoB = Lightning hammer (another person can pick up the other hammer too)
Thummper turretX3 = Churning Earth, Dragon’s tooth, Earthquake
Supply crate = Flame Axe
healing turret detonate = Arcane Brilliance
blank = Evasive Arcana in earth attunement (added bonus triat that gives additional blast)
Most available blast finishers in one build
Engineer = 8 Elementalist = 9 (not to mention they can trait to give fury on top of might)

Here is how warriors can stack might now
1)forceful great swords+Phalanx Strength+Sigil of Strength+Superior Runes of Strength keep up 25 stacks of might if you have sufficiently great crit chance
2) Longbow before the fight starts creating fire field blasting it (3 personal, 6 team)+ Banner of discipline (6 personal, 12 team)+ Banner of Strength (9 personal, 18 team)+ FGJ (12 personal, 24 team) +SoR (17personal, 25 team maxed) before the fight even beings and you start stacking might with crits

for personal healing warriors we have to do a lot to surpass warriors here: both without any healing power
adrenal health+Healing signet (362+351=713HPS)
Healing turret (included all regen including healing mist 6860/15=457.33+backpack regen 117 + elixir infused bombs 145/.92=157.60+117+457.33=731.93HPS grand total)

Not going to argue vulnerability stacking as I believe you are correct in that argument.

Actually I was able to stack 25 might by myself on my engineer, only took changing flamethrower out for throw mine ( so not much switching around).

Overall, yes, I’d say we are equal to eles when it comes to stacking might.

Thyend.3692:

Actually I was able to stack 25 might by myself on my engineer, only took changing flamethrower out for throw mine ( so not much switching around).

I was demonstrating group might sorry if that wasn’t clear, also not juggernaut gross lol.

Thyend.3692:

Oh, I didn’t use the flamethrower for the juggernaut stacks, but for the longer fire field, as the one in bomb kit is too short.

Also the 25 stacks of might I was referring to were for the whole group too.

How, out of curiousity? And was it in combat or pre-combat?

Pre-combat, as it requires kit switching.
>Place Healing Turret
>Place Thumper Turret
>Big Ol’ Bomb (1)
>Napalm
>Switch Flamethrower for Throw mine
>Throw Mine – detonate (2)
>Detonate Healing Turret (3)
>Overcharge Thumper Turret – Detonate Thumper Turret – Rumble (6)
>Magnetic Inversion (shield 4) (7)
>Supply Crate (8)

Just did it in game, it seems my memory was messing with me because that’s 24 stacks.

You could switch the bomb kit, after the big Ol’ bomb for a another turret for one more blast.

Edit: I changed the rotation a bit and managed to stack 25 might, but this is not really viable in any situation.

>Place Thumper turret
>Place Healing turret
>Big Ol’ Bomb(1)
>Fire Bomb
>Change Bomb kit to Rifle Turret
>Place Rifle Turret
>Napalm
>Change flamethrower to Throw mine
>Throw mine-Detonate(2)
>Detonate Healing Turret(3)
>Detonate Rifle Turret(4)
>Overcharge-Detonate Thumper Turret-Rumble(7)
>Supply Crate(8)
>Magnetic Inversion(9)

Thyend.3692:

Pre-combat, as it requires kit switching.
>Place Healing Turret
>Place Thumper Turret
>Big Ol’ Bomb (1)
>Napalm
>Switch Flamethrower for Throw mine
>Throw Mine – detonate (2)
>Detonate Healing Turret (3)
>Overcharge Thumper Turret – Detonate Thumper Turret – Rumble (6)
>Magnetic Inversion (shield 4) (7)
>Supply Crate (8)

Just did it in game, it seems my memory was messing with me because that’s 24 stacks.

You could switch the bomb kit, after the big Ol’ bomb for a another turret for one more blast.

Very nice but you could also use Acid bomb from elixir gun rather than throw mine, as it is on a shorter cooldown and then can be switched out for another skill as the elixir gun wont be on cooldown itself, I believe u can still droop bundle mid air with acid bomb to cancel the jump and keep you in the same area too. just as another option that will give you another skill you can use once the fight starts, or acid bomb followed by detonate mine for 25 (27) stacks of might.

Engineers are a joke atm and anyone who plays balth engi or decap engi should feel pretty bad about themselves

don’t even get me started about wvw, half-asleep 3v1’s from just spamming condis are not unusual

Hold on guys, I think you got off topic. I still need to sit and enjoy this quote!

Pawstruck.9708:

Yep I’m a thief. And this isn’t rock paper scissors, so one class shouldn’t be able to insta-kill another just because of class choice.

Okay now, Engi is not nearly as OP as a condition spam thief or mesmer. I have YET to kill a condition mesmer and not sure about condi thief. They both just spam me, go stealth and jump around, then condi spam me again and stealth and jump around until I die because I have no cleanses!!

I do want to say that in a small group fight most people these days run condition spammer builds and they are all ridiculous right now…except ele condition..thats weak sauce.

lol, im guessing this is a troll post or something. Or posted by a noob who doesnt know how to battle might stacking engies. Comming from a thief i say / no respect.

Engineer can be incredibly tanky, I can give you that.

Combined with condition damage you got a mean engineer build. Tanky + Condi is rather easy to do.

But its far from hilariously overpowered for sure. There are ways around it, I assure you.

Man…
Thieves used to be my toughest opponents in sPvP and WvW. I had to get over the fact that they started and finished all fights with me unless help showed up. Now they single me out in sPvP. I feel accomplished when I beat one on equal footing, and no I don’t run Perplexity runes or Automated Response trait. I run Torment sigil sometimes but mostly Sigil of Ice to keep a target from escaping. I use a tossup of Balthazar and Nightmare runes for the condition duration.

But I learned how to fight a thief. I went with the condition meta and I’m sorry OP we don’t have access to every condition in the game without using the sigils and runes that you also have access to. The rotation I learned to fight a thief was:

*Be ready to block or blind
*Apply conditions
*Kite their attacks (Bomb and Grenade kit attacks optional)
*Interrupt heals
*Always hedge the area with AoE where the opponent last went into stealth
*Use knock backs when I see SR (and try not to do it against a wall)
*If I have rocket boots or slick shoes toolbelt skill, chase opponent down

The key here is that those are mostly defensive maneuvers. If a thief doesn’t know when to disengage (or when to escape someplace safe for when the conditions down you) then you’re going to lose and get finished. But that’s the nature of sPvP and WvW. I will run from a necro in a second if I can’t dominate him or her quickly. Same with sudden 1v2’s I get caught in. I die a lot still but I always ask myself what I learned when I lose in an engagement. Did I bite off more than I could chew? Did I just mess up? I finally can beat guardians and warriors 1v1 on a point but it’s hard work. I just have to out-condition their healing and deny their attacks and CC. I’ve accepted the fact that I cannot kill all thieves that pick a fight, I’m just happy to make them disengage. And most likely if someone is one-shotting you, they won’t have any real defensive traits if you get the jump on them next engagement.

But OP, guess how I finally knew I improved? It was when a thief I fought against in hotjoin was on my team the next round and said “you know, you’re a really great engineer.”

Looks like a backstab thief didn’t get the free kill he was expecting. Poor guy.

Play the engi class to realize how underpowered it is. Or better yet, work some conditions into your scrubby backstab build.

I almost exclusively play engi in tpvp, though I recently also rolled a thief for fun. I found running a venom share p/d+s/p build works fairly well against many engis. Run Basilisk venom instead of Thieves guild, and run s/p. Multiple stuns are a BANE of engis, and so are conditions. Thieves have access to both.

If you are trying to just shadowstep to an engi, spam 22222 or try to spam for backstabs, you will have a bad time. If that engi is running nades of bombs, a good engi will start to just lay AoE at their feet while the thief tries and fails.

Honestly, there are definitely some very powerful things about an engi, mostly built around their traits. However, the top bunker-y builds are low on dps. The top dps builds are low on bunker. A good bunker engi can withstand almost anything (except a decent condi necro probably). However, while they may have some condi damage, their output dps will be relatively low.

Thyend.3692:

Cough
Updated DPS rankings
April tiers:
Elementalist: 100 (1)
Mesmer: 99.75 (-.25)
Thief: 97 (-1)
Necromancer: 79 (4)
Guardian: 79 (-1)
Warrior : 72 (-6)
Engineer: 66 (+2)
Ranger: 62 (no change)

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/91039-updated-dps-rankings-april-2014/

What’s up?

Sorry to put a damper on your parade, but that’s from before the patch was actually released, and we got the full changelist. The important thing for engineers specifically are the buff to ascended kits and Bloodlust actually turning out to still be stackable as long as you have it on an underwater weapon. That means that a grenade engie with an ascended rifle goes waaaay up relative to where it is on that list currently.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Regardless of who’s saying it, true is true. This class needs hard nerfs. The class with the best might, vuln, and healing capabilities should NOT also be top DPS, that’s just silly.

what?)
might and vuln – ok) but with new runes and sigils u can make it on any class)

healing capabilities? really? Not any of our healing skills scale with healing power enough alot comparing to othwer classes.

Hvaran.6327:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Regardless of who’s saying it, true is true. This class needs hard nerfs. The class with the best might, vuln, and healing capabilities should NOT also be top DPS, that’s just silly.

what?)
might and vuln – ok) but with new runes and sigils u can make it on any class)

healing capabilities? really? Not any of our healing skills scale with healing power enough alot comparing to othwer classes.

Engineer benefits way more from the new changes because of the way runes and sigils interact with our weapons. The simple rundown is:

1) 5% boost to kit damage is obvious.

2) Double sigil is an overall DPS buff for 2H weapons generally but makes a significantly larger difference for engineers. The reason for this is that the burst damage from rifle skills is fairly significantly, but actually equipping a rifle was a bad idea because you lost both a sigil and a blast finisher. With Strength runes making might much easier to stack in general, neither of these are really issues anymore, so now we can freely take rifle for the extra burst damage.

3) With the Ferocity nerf making crit damage weaker overall, the classes with less reliance on crit damage now look much better than the classes that relied heavily on it. Engies can spec for a fairly large condition damage component, the largest out of any of the zerker DPS builds available to any class, and that portion is totally untouched by the crit damage nerf.

As for healing, tell me Healing Turret isn’t, like, the best self and AOE heal in the game. Huge chunk of health returned for self and AOE, removes conditions, free blast finisher, stacks regen. Healing power scaling is irrelevant because lol healing power.

I am not confident that those changes were enough to bump engineer from the last slot to the top, although I am not one to do damage calculations.

I suggest putting somewhere in that thread that the calcs are outdated.

I also recall you saying before the 15th patch how engineers had close to top dps (in another thread) while in your before 15th ranking engineer is second to last, so I am not trusting when you are going around saying engineer’s dps is OP.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318

u wherekittentaking shield cause of blast when u needed riffle for dps? It’s not a joke?
I was running with rifle for large sclae fights before cause pistol is useless there 1 more sigil wasn’t balancing that.
p/s or for assist team was ok before and ok now.

And the new runes and sigils
a) engis benefits from weapon swap (personally using few on swap sigils)
b) engis still got 2 maximum (for land weapon)

3) agreed on that, but if we talk about GvG format condis still bad, only some additional on engi are ok. massive cleansins melandru and lemograss soupe still in game.

" Healing power scaling is irrelevant because lol healing power." – ex-le shout warriors, dodge roll guardian.

backpack regen is solow regen comparing to others buff for 10-20% additional of scaling on backpack regen would make class more balanced to others.

must be one of those thieves that I beat in 1 second…