Guild Wars 2

JobCreator.1956:

Such logic being thrown around in this thread, yet no response to the fact that grenades are thrown(with your arm) yet they have more range than a bullet from either pistol or rifle. This makes no sense. ANet needs to make grenade ranges more realistic, maybe exchange their current range with pistol’s. Then make pistols have current rifle range, and rifles current grenade(1500 upgraded) range. I think we can all agree that this would make things more realistic.

Realism sits secondary to game balance. Grenades need the range to DPS down distant stationary targets, like mortars, cannons, and other siege placements. Cutting their range puts them too close to danger and at a disadvantage to staff elementalists.

on a side note, adding a sniper rifle for engineers to replace the Mortar would be pretty simple since its already in the game: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sniper_Rifle

They could just give the grenade kit a grenade launcher animation like flamethrower and elixergun.

Obscure One.4357:

Nilanil.4721

All grenade abilities are 1200, so that one is a long range specific weapon.

That sounds like a fun idea, but it seems to go completely against the general theme of mobility that the devs intended in all of the combat design. That, and I really don’t see it as something the class needs. Are you thinking in terms of PvP? I’m not a PvPer so I won’t comment on that aspect of the game at all.

Hitting anything other than stationary targets with a grenade at 1200 (1500 traited) in even a remotely viable manner is simply impractical for that long travel time of the projectile. They’re liable to see the grenade, take a sip of their drink, toggle walk, and leisurely stroll out of danger.

Now when it comes down to mobility focus in the game design I’d have to point you at every siege weapon in WvW aside from the (Siege Golem), a mirad of environmental PvE controllable turrets/cannons and even more specifically class based, the Mortar elite and both Tome elites for the Guardian. Sacrificing mobility for superior firepower is very much a combat element in Guild Wars 2.

Correct. That is an aspect of combat, but not the focus of combat mechanics. And we get mortar! How many of those environmental PvE controllable object’s ammunition travels anywhere near as fast and straight as what you’re looking for in a sniper rifle? I get that you’d like it, I just don’t see it as necessary or balanced given my experience so far.

Nilanil.4721:

Obscure One.4357:

Nilanil.4721

All grenade abilities are 1200, so that one is a long range specific weapon.

That sounds like a fun idea, but it seems to go completely against the general theme of mobility that the devs intended in all of the combat design. That, and I really don’t see it as something the class needs. Are you thinking in terms of PvP? I’m not a PvPer so I won’t comment on that aspect of the game at all.

Hitting anything other than stationary targets with a grenade at 1200 (1500 traited) in even a remotely viable manner is simply impractical for that long travel time of the projectile. They’re liable to see the grenade, take a sip of their drink, toggle walk, and leisurely stroll out of danger.

Now when it comes down to mobility focus in the game design I’d have to point you at every siege weapon in WvW aside from the (Siege Golem), a mirad of environmental PvE controllable turrets/cannons and even more specifically class based, the Mortar elite and both Tome elites for the Guardian. Sacrificing mobility for superior firepower is very much a combat element in Guild Wars 2.

Correct. That is an aspect of combat, but not the focus of combat mechanics. And we get mortar! How many of those environmental PvE controllable object’s ammunition travels anywhere near as fast and straight as what you’re looking for in a sniper rifle? I get that you’d like it, I just don’t see it as necessary or balanced given my experience so far.

Firstly you say we get Mortar like it’s a good thing. It’s literally the worst skill in the game even measured up against those branches that drop off of the Oak hearts. The rate of fire, slow projectiles, and less range than traited grenades, makes it unbearably unusable. I know of exactly 0 builds that effectively use it, and I can’t think of any reason at all to ever put it on my skill bar…unless I have some masochistic urge to give an enemy thief the ability to boon steal over 2 minutes of stability.

Secondly, the balance lies in either superior defense by being less mobile or superior offense while being immobile. Skills like Meteor Shower, Barrage, both guardian and engineer shield projectile blockers/knock backs all demonstrate a forfeit of mobility for a different advantage. A “Sniper Rifle” would cure multiple class woes in that regard, especially if it replaced the Mortar.

Obscure One.4357:

Nilanil.4721:

Obscure One.4357:

Nilanil.4721

All grenade abilities are 1200, so that one is a long range specific weapon.

That sounds like a fun idea, but it seems to go completely against the general theme of mobility that the devs intended in all of the combat design. That, and I really don’t see it as something the class needs. Are you thinking in terms of PvP? I’m not a PvPer so I won’t comment on that aspect of the game at all.

Hitting anything other than stationary targets with a grenade at 1200 (1500 traited) in even a remotely viable manner is simply impractical for that long travel time of the projectile. They’re liable to see the grenade, take a sip of their drink, toggle walk, and leisurely stroll out of danger.

Now when it comes down to mobility focus in the game design I’d have to point you at every siege weapon in WvW aside from the (Siege Golem), a mirad of environmental PvE controllable turrets/cannons and even more specifically class based, the Mortar elite and both Tome elites for the Guardian. Sacrificing mobility for superior firepower is very much a combat element in Guild Wars 2.

Correct. That is an aspect of combat, but not the focus of combat mechanics. And we get mortar! How many of those environmental PvE controllable object’s ammunition travels anywhere near as fast and straight as what you’re looking for in a sniper rifle? I get that you’d like it, I just don’t see it as necessary or balanced given my experience so far.

Firstly you say we get Mortar like it’s a good thing. It’s literally the worst skill in the game even measured up against those branches that drop off of the Oak hearts. The rate of fire, slow projectiles, and less range than traited grenades, makes it unbearably unusable. I know of exactly 0 builds that effectively use it, and I can’t think of any reason at all to ever put it on my skill bar…unless I have some masochistic urge to give an enemy thief the ability to boon steal over 2 minutes of stability.

I didn’t mean to imply it was a good thing. I was comparing it to the environmental stationary projectile weapons.

What’s secondly? =)

Has anyone else ever come across those stationary environmental sniper rifles in Ascalon? There was a heart or event to snipe down bandits.

kokocabana.8153:

Has anyone else ever come across those stationary environmental sniper rifles in Ascalon? There was a heart or event to snipe down bandits.

Forgot about those! I know one is by the Ogres in Plains of Ashford. Never got to use it though. Still…it’s very uncommon, I think.

Nilanil.4721:

kokocabana.8153:

Has anyone else ever come across those stationary environmental sniper rifles in Ascalon? There was a heart or event to snipe down bandits.

Forgot about those! I know one is by the Ogres in Plains of Ashford. Never got to use it though. Still…it’s very uncommon, I think.

Scroll up a tad and you’ll see a link to it in a post of mine :P

Obscure One.4357:

Nilanil.4721:

kokocabana.8153:

Has anyone else ever come across those stationary environmental sniper rifles in Ascalon? There was a heart or event to snipe down bandits.

Forgot about those! I know one is by the Ogres in Plains of Ashford. Never got to use it though. Still…it’s very uncommon, I think.

Scroll up a tad and you’ll see a link to it in a post of mine :P

The link wasn’t working when I tried it. =)

Nilanil.4721:

Obscure One.4357:

Nilanil.4721:

kokocabana.8153:

Has anyone else ever come across those stationary environmental sniper rifles in Ascalon? There was a heart or event to snipe down bandits.

Forgot about those! I know one is by the Ogres in Plains of Ashford. Never got to use it though. Still…it’s very uncommon, I think.

Scroll up a tad and you’ll see a link to it in a post of mine :P

The link wasn’t working when I tried it. =)

Should be working now.

I think this concept may warrant a thread all its own. When I get a chance to I’ll get over to that sniper rifle, take some screens, and attempt to make a compelling argument in the Suggestion or General discussion thread.

Things that get posted in this sub-forum are about as likely to get a developer’s attention as they are to curing world hunger.

Here it is. That crooked barrel is kinda Dr. Suess-esque. Lol.

Dustfinger.9510:

Here it is. That crooked barrel is kinda Dr. Suess-esque. Lol.

Makes you wonder if it actually works. I’ll try it and report back. =P

Found an image of that Sniper Rifle in action out there in the webernet:

I like how people critique the lack of realism in a FICTIONAL FANTASY GAME.

Good work, people. Next, let’s protest outside the White House because no dragons are in the senate.

Jigain.8231:

I like how people critique the lack of realism in a FICTIONAL FANTASY GAME.

Good work, people. Next, let’s protest outside the White House because no dragons are in the senate.

Hey you! Read the subsequent posts! We’re trying to derail this thread into something productive and you’re messing up our vibe.

Jigain.8231:

I like how people critique the lack of realism in a FICTIONAL FANTASY GAME.

Good work, people. Next, let’s protest outside the White House because no dragons are in the senate.

I wholeheartedly agree with this protest…

<- Name is German for “dragon”.

Now, back to your normally scheduled thread.

What if you could trait grenades into an RPG? Longer range, faster to target but maybe sacrifice AOE radius and need to be rooted while “casting”?

Conan.8046:

A musket is not a rifle

Actually some of them are:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifle_musket

Carzor Stelatis.9435:

Conan.8046:

A musket is not a rifle

Actually some of them are:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifle_musket

I reject your reality and suppliment my own in which guns can accurately fire from the hip, shoot glue, nets, and provide enough thrust and lift to launch me safely across a ravine…oh and people can get shot literally thousands of times with no long term health effects…well maybe carpal tunnel for the guy shooting…

Obscure One.4357:

I reject your reality and suppliment my own

FAILURE!

The quote is “I reject your reality and substitute my own!”

Drakkon.4782:

Obscure One.4357:

I reject your reality and suppliment my own

FAILURE!

The quote is “I reject your reality and substitute my own!”

Oh nos!

Drakkon Uses Trivia Attack!

It’s Super Effective!

Critical Hit to the knee for over 9000!

Obscure One.4357:

I reject your reality and suppliment my own in which guns can accurately fire from the hip

Funfact: More commonly referred to as “point shooting”, it is and has been taught by various militaries throughout the world. It provides benefits in conditions and situations that aimed shooting would be hindered.

edit: trivia combo? :P

Dustfinger.9510:

Obscure One.4357:

I reject your reality and suppliment my own in which guns can accurately fire from the hip

Funfact: More commonly referred to as “point shooting”, it is and has been taught by various militaries throughout the world. It provides benefits in conditions and situations that aimed shooting would be hindered.

Well that explains ALOT! No wonder my United States Military has been kicking the crap outta these other countries for so long! They still haven’t figured out what those prong looking things on there guns are for!

“Run away! Run away! The Americans hold their weapons in some freakish alien manner allowing their bullets to hit us!”

Obscure One.4357:

Dustfinger.9510:

Obscure One.4357:

I reject your reality and suppliment my own in which guns can accurately fire from the hip

Funfact: More commonly referred to as “point shooting”, it is and has been taught by various militaries throughout the world. It provides benefits in conditions and situations that aimed shooting would be hindered.

Well that explains ALOT! No wonder my United States Military has been kicking the crap outta these other countries for so long! They still haven’t figured out what those prong looking things on there guns are for!

“Run away! Run away! The Americans hold their weapons in some freakish alien manner allowing their bullets to hit us!”

Not to rain on your parade, but this method has been employed by the US military.

I’m a Marine but point shooting began being taught in the US Army in 1967. Point shooting is recognized for use in close quarter situations or low-light conditions, or because of the body’s natural reaction to close quarters threats. Which makes sense with the shotgun type weapons engineers use.

Nilanil.4721:

Obscure One.4357:

Dustfinger.9510:

Obscure One.4357:

I reject your reality and suppliment my own in which guns can accurately fire from the hip

Funfact: More commonly referred to as “point shooting”, it is and has been taught by various militaries throughout the world. It provides benefits in conditions and situations that aimed shooting would be hindered.

Well that explains ALOT! No wonder my United States Military has been kicking the crap outta these other countries for so long! They still haven’t figured out what those prong looking things on there guns are for!

“Run away! Run away! The Americans hold their weapons in some freakish alien manner allowing their bullets to hit us!”

Not to rain on your parade, but this method has been employed by the US military.

You know that because they want you to know that because they wanted their enemies to know that so that our enemies would miss while we high five each other, eat BBQ Hamburgers, and watch the live feed from the Predator drone lining up a volley of Hellfire missiles…counter intelligence is one thing but it’d be rude not to include them in the BBQ.

Now, a Predator Drone kit is something I could support!
72864000 range (actual range of an MQ-1 Predator, in inches, for you realism freaks)
60000 damage
Unblockable

Nilanil.4721:

Now, a Predator Drone kit is something I could support!
72864000 range (actual range of an MQ-1 Predator, in inches, for you realism freaks)
60000 damage
Unblockable

Check it out @3:00
http://youtu.be/KR2Esy83MQ0

So I tried that sniper rifle last night. Unless I was doing something wrong, it can’t be aimed. There is one ability that lets you shoot which auto-targeted whatever the nearest in range target was.

Sort of a disappointment. I don’t think anyone would like a kit based on that example.

@ Obscure One thanks for the commando link, I’d heard about it but never seen it before. =)

What’s really interesting is that there are two traits designed specifically to enhance the ability for an Engineer to engage targets at range (Rifled Barrels, Scope) yet very little to actually use at those ranges. Blunderbuss, Overcharged Shot, and even Jump Shot are all vastly more effective in close range than they are any where else. It’s actually very counter intuitive to the class design.

Scope would actually serve a better purpose in a Grenade build spec than a rifle build spec simply due to it’s overall effectiveness. This actually reinforces the need for a “Sniper Kit” as there’s no real reason to use Rifled Barrels for a rifle since it’s practically useful for only the Auto-Attack and Net Shot. Then with Hair Trigger, Coated Bullets, and Modified Ammunition being the optimal pistol choices, Rifled Barrels is just hard to justify for that spec as well.

Adding in a “Sniper Kit” would give more of a build reason to use Rifled Barrels and Scope, especially of it were an elite that replaced Mortar, but benefited from Elite Supplies range increase to make for the longest viable ranged weapon option bar none.

Obscure One.4357:

Adding in a “Sniper Kit” would give more of a build reason to use Rifled Barrels and Scope, especially of it were an elite that replaced Mortar, but benefited from Elite Supplies range increase to make for the longest viable ranged weapon option bar none.

Quick design suggestion:

Sniper Rifle
Cast time: 0.5s
Duration: forty-five seconds
Cooldown: 180s
Use: Assemble a sniper rifle at your location to be used by yourself or your allies.

Gives the following skills when used:

Fire
Cast time: 0.2s
Cooldown: 0.5s
Max Range: 2000
Min Range: 600
Use: Fire a shot at your selected target. Deals medium damage.

Spot
Cast time: 0.2s
Cooldown: 8s
Max Range: 2200
Min Range: 0
Use: Spot a target for your allies, inflicting 5 stacks of Vulnerability for 4 seconds.

Boom, Headshot
Cast time: 0.6s
Cooldown: 14s
Max Range: 1800
Min Range: 800
Use: Snipe your target’s head, dealing heavy damage and having an additional 10% chance to critically hit.

This Little Piggy…
Cast time: 0.2s
Cooldown: 10s
Max range: 1800
Min range: 600
Use: Target the legs, dealing low damage but inflicting Cripple for 4 seconds as well as 3 stacks of Bleed for 6 seconds.

Ballistic Hollowpoint
Cast time: 0.5s
Cooldown: 18s
Use: Load up three rounds of ballistic hollowpoint rounds, causing your next three attacks to pierce and apply their effects to all targets in their path.

Values are subject to discussion for balance purposes, but I think you see where I’m going with this. I want to make it a stationary weapon for long-to-medium range combat in open terrain, with a couple of nice conditions added in, to replace the nigh-useless mortar.

PS. Why is “forty-five s” in number form censored? Kitten is confused.

Jigain.8231:

Obscure One.4357:

Adding in a “Sniper Kit” would give more of a build reason to use Rifled Barrels and Scope, especially of it were an elite that replaced Mortar, but benefited from Elite Supplies range increase to make for the longest viable ranged weapon option bar none.

Quick design suggestion:

Sniper Rifle
Cast time: 0.5s
Duration: forty-five seconds
Cooldown: 180s
Use: Assemble a sniper rifle at your location to be used by yourself or your allies.

Gives the following skills when used:

Fire
Cast time: 0.2s
Cooldown: 0.5s
Max Range: 2000
Min Range: 600
Use: Fire a shot at your selected target. Deals medium damage.

Spot
Cast time: 0.2s
Cooldown: 8s
Max Range: 2200
Min Range: 0
Use: Spot a target for your allies, inflicting 5 stacks of Vulnerability for 4 seconds.

Boom, Headshot
Cast time: 0.6s
Cooldown: 14s
Max Range: 1800
Min Range: 800
Use: Snipe your target’s head, dealing heavy damage and having an additional 10% chance to critically hit.

This Little Piggy…
Cast time: 0.2s
Cooldown: 10s
Max range: 1800
Min range: 600
Use: Target the legs, dealing low damage but inflicting Cripple for 4 seconds as well as 3 stacks of Bleed for 6 seconds.

Ballistic Hollowpoint
Cast time: 0.5s
Cooldown: 18s
Use: Load up three rounds of ballistic hollowpoint rounds, causing your next three attacks to pierce and apply their effects to all targets in their path.

Values are subject to discussion for balance purposes, but I think you see where I’m going with this. I want to make it a stationary weapon for long-to-medium range combat in open terrain, with a couple of nice conditions added in, to replace the nigh-useless mortar.

PS. Why is “forty-five s” in number form censored? Kitten is confused.

Firstly I’d be sure to add in a way to gain stealth or stability while using the “Sniper Kit”. It’d be neat if when you fired the rifle it broke stealth for the duration of the Detected debuff and stealth buffed you again when it ended.

Secondly, maybe we’re looking at the sniper model to heavily as a ranged option to remedy the disparity. Why not something like a fully automatic machine gun on a tripod? How sick would a range 1200 mini gun pumping out a stream of rounds doing equivalent damage to a pistol auto attack but at a 100% faster firing rate be!? Now that would be an elite!

Obscure One.4357:

Jigain.8231:

Obscure One.4357:

Adding in a “Sniper Kit” would give more of a build reason to use Rifled Barrels and Scope, especially of it were an elite that replaced Mortar, but benefited from Elite Supplies range increase to make for the longest viable ranged weapon option bar none.

Quick design suggestion:

Sniper Rifle
Cast time: 0.5s
Duration: forty-five seconds
Cooldown: 180s
Use: Assemble a sniper rifle at your location to be used by yourself or your allies.

Gives the following skills when used:

Fire
Cast time: 0.2s
Cooldown: 0.5s
Max Range: 2000
Min Range: 600
Use: Fire a shot at your selected target. Deals medium damage.

Spot
Cast time: 0.2s
Cooldown: 8s
Max Range: 2200
Min Range: 0
Use: Spot a target for your allies, inflicting 5 stacks of Vulnerability for 4 seconds.

Boom, Headshot
Cast time: 0.6s
Cooldown: 14s
Max Range: 1800
Min Range: 800
Use: Snipe your target’s head, dealing heavy damage and having an additional 10% chance to critically hit.

This Little Piggy…
Cast time: 0.2s
Cooldown: 10s
Max range: 1800
Min range: 600
Use: Target the legs, dealing low damage but inflicting Cripple for 4 seconds as well as 3 stacks of Bleed for 6 seconds.

Ballistic Hollowpoint
Cast time: 0.5s
Cooldown: 18s
Use: Load up three rounds of ballistic hollowpoint rounds, causing your next three attacks to pierce and apply their effects to all targets in their path.

Values are subject to discussion for balance purposes, but I think you see where I’m going with this. I want to make it a stationary weapon for long-to-medium range combat in open terrain, with a couple of nice conditions added in, to replace the nigh-useless mortar.

PS. Why is “forty-five s” in number form censored? Kitten is confused.

Firstly I’d be sure to add in a way to gain stealth or stability while using the “Sniper Kit”. It’d be neat if when you fired the rifle it broke stealth for the duration of the Detected debuff and stealth buffed you again when it ended.

Secondly, maybe we’re looking at the sniper model to heavily as a ranged option to remedy the disparity. Why not something like a fully automatic machine gun on a tripod? How sick would a range 1200 mini gun pumping out a stream of rounds doing equivalent damage to a pistol auto attack but at a 100% faster firing rate be!? Now that would be an elite!

I think that from a development perspective it would be easiest to work with what we already have. I’m sticking with the RPG concept. It could be a grandmaster trait in the explosives line as a counterpoint to the grenadier GM. Grenadier increases distance and adds 50% more grenades. RPG could increase distance and projectile speed while reducing AoE radius and dropping the number of grenades by 50% (possibly with a little more damage to compensate).

They don’t even need to make a separate GM, but could rather make grenadier behave as it does now for PvE and behave as an RPG for PvP. That would fall in line with their statements to the effect that they wanted to make abilities behave differently in those areas.

Not that I don’t like the concept, but it ignores a pretty large problem, the Mortar. I’d be fine with a shoulder mounted weapon that fired rocket propelled grenades, but it’d take more mechanical alteration to make it change the grenade kit off of a trait, and the functional change between PvP and PvE would be far to drastic alienating the sPvP game mode even more than it is already. By making it a stand alone elite skill to replace the Mortar, we’d have a better ranged option without anything to messy in terms of trait shuffling and PvP/PvE mode discrimination.

Maybe engis modified their rifles to work like shotguns…