Guild Wars 2

I’m curious as to how engineers currently stack up to other classes right now. I’m currently playing a warrior. Been 80 for a few weeks, but its getting boring. While warriors do have a multitude of different builds, they’re still pretty one sided and I’m looking for something that is more involved than just pressing the same 3 buttons. However, I am curious as to why I almost never see engineers in either PVP or PVE. Its honestly the one class I know almost nothing about since they seem to be pretty rare ATM.

Mostly, I’d like to know if its worth leveling an engineer to 80. I’m not looking for a faceroll class (I already have one), but I don’t want to get to 80 and be so underwhelmed by the classes effectiveness like I was with the necromancer.

Currently riddled with a plethora of bugs as you can find in the stickied topic in these forums. Beyond that though, I can attest how fun it is to play compared to other classes (I’ve played Thief, Warrior, Ranger, Mesmer) all to at least 35-40 in PvE, and a bit in sPvP. It’s main draw is how versatile it can be, primarily through the use of kits. You can fill many differing roles with them, sometimes even on the fly during combat depending on the kit. At least in PvE, there’s almost no end to the amount of builds and synergies you can achieve with traits and setting up your own combo fields and finishers.

sPvP, they are certainly more difficult to play than most classes, which is probably why you don’t see many. Whether you’re good with a keyboard and mouse and twitch thinking or not, the class requires quite a bit more player input to achieve the same results as other classes, but the payoff can be huge. I don’t think many people have the patience for it to be honest.

All in all though, I’d say they’re worth trying out. I can nearly guarantee you’ll have fun with it. They’ll be even more worthwhile once they iron out the ton of bugs plaguing them though.

Engineer is this game’s best kept secret, I have personally discovered. The reason? Their utility gives them a counter to every other class. While the general masses whine about thief/mesmer/guardian, as an engineer you have the tools to beat them all, and every other class for that matter.

There is a catch: it’s true that there’s a high skillcap to engineer. A great deal of twitch ability, spec tuning, gear experimentation, micromanagement, and battlefield awareness is required to make the class truly shine for your particular playstyle. Though, once you achieve your own personal synergy with the class, you step into PvP with supreme confidence against any other class. Spammy thieves and warriors have no chance. Super tank guardians are out-controlled. Mesmers are left confused on how they just lost a 1v1.

As for PvE, just spec into flamethrower and grenades, and have fun killing things extremely quickly. I spend most of my time in the Mists and really cant comment on high-level dungeon crawling with engie, but out in the general PvE landscape, I have little trouble burning things down or exploding them.

If you have the patience and quick fingers, there’s a wealth of potential and depth to the class. My .02.

The Engineer is currently terrible as a class. I stopped playing mine. Sure they can do a bit of everything but doesn’t do it well. Other classes can do stuff better.

Engineers, I won’t lie, aren’t in the best spot.

They have only one truly viable damage build, that rivals other damage builds of other professions.

Their support is fine when specced into it, but it suffers from poor damage.

Engineers tend to have quite a lot of CC innately, a lot of kits and utilities offer that but again, going into all CC does leave your other two roles very weak.

The biggest problem with the engineer really, is that the number of viable builds is low. Elixirs right now, are in a great spot, but when traited. For example, a few traited elixirs can offer you: stun breaks, damage buffs and great condition removal.

While on the other hand, things like gadgets only have a single dimension: a knockdown, a knockback, a launch, a stun break.

And turrets are honestly, very squishy, even when fully traited, and suffer from pretty poor damage, and immobility and have huge cooldowns while not offering much utility.

So what you are left with is really, that elixirs and the grenade kit are truly optimal and comparable to other classes, with a few others like the bomb and elixir gun kit having their place in some builds, but really everything else isn’t too on par and needing buffs.

Trait lines for the engineer tend to be more pigeonholed than other classes, whether you think that helps you or not. It tends to be:
explosive kits- explosives
pistol/rifle/flamethrower/elixir gun- firearms
turrets and shield- inventions
elixirs- alchemy
gadgets and tool kit, and kits in general- tools

There’s not a whole lot of divergence of traits, so focusing in on certain traitlines makes a lot more sense than other classes.

So overall? I’d say they are limited, but can be fine. Need of a good round of buffing to bring up most utilities up to the level of grenade kit and elixirs.

Engineers, I won’t lie, aren’t in the best spot.

They have only one truly viable damage build, that rivals other damage builds of other professions.

Their support is fine when specced into it, but it suffers from poor damage.

Engineers tend to have quite a lot of CC innately, a lot of kits and utilities offer that but again, going into all CC does leave your other two roles very weak.

The biggest problem with the engineer really, is that the number of viable builds is low. Elixirs right now, are in a great spot, but when traited. For example, a few traited elixirs can offer you: stun breaks, damage buffs and great condition removal.

While on the other hand, things like gadgets only have a single dimension: a knockdown, a knockback, a launch, a stun break.

And turrets are honestly, very squishy, even when fully traited, and suffer from pretty poor damage, and immobility and have huge cooldowns while not offering much utility.

So what you are left with is really, that elixirs and the grenade kit are truly optimal and comparable to other classes, with a few others like the bomb and elixir gun kit having their place in some builds, but really everything else isn’t too on par and needing buffs.

Trait lines for the engineer tend to be more pigeonholed than other classes, whether you think that helps you or not. It tends to be:
explosive kits- explosives
pistol/rifle/flamethrower/elixir gun- firearms
turrets and shield- inventions
elixirs- alchemy
gadgets and tool kit, and kits in general- tools

There’s not a whole lot of divergence of traits, so focusing in on certain traitlines makes a lot more sense than other classes.

So overall? I’d say they are limited, but can be fine. Need of a good round of buffing to bring up most utilities up to the level of grenade kit and elixirs.

They’re not bad, they’re just mediocre. They won’t even scratch the surface of a well geared warrior or thief’s damage outside of the supremely gimmicky Static Discharge build (which even then only manages to attain via a bunch of long cooldowns what warriors and thieves can do with their regular rotations) which will most likely get nerfed given the history of engineer ‘fixes’.

These responses are honest, but without vitriol and angst. Thank you. Now I understand why there are so few engineers. Unfortunately, I’m gonna have to pass. I’ve already leveled a class to 80 thats in the same boat as you guys. I don’t care to repeat that mistake.

Engineers do have bugs that need to be fixed, but I always feel like people dramatize the problems of the class they play.

With my current node defender build, there are very few people I can’t take in a 1v1 fight. In group fights, having heavy cc—3 knockbacks, 2 stuns, 2 blinds, and an immobilize—makes this spec invaluable. Sure, this build is really one of the few that are viable, and it does take a lot of skill to play effectively, but you can’t fault a class for that.

The only class I consistently have problems with are Necros and Mesmers, but this game isn’t built around 1v1s anyways.

I will tell you this OP

Anyone claiming this

“They have only one truly viable damage build, that rivals other damage builds of other professions.”

Anytime you see a comment like this, it is a pretty safe bet that they are the last poster to listen too. I have noticed a lot of posters have a very narrow field of view and are incapable of thinking outside the box.

If you learn to use the tools at hand, you can handle anything really.

coglin.1496:

I will tell you this OP

Anyone claiming this

“They have only one truly viable damage build, that rivals other damage builds of other professions.”

Anytime you see a comment like this, it is a pretty safe bet that they are the last poster to listen too. I have noticed a lot of posters have a very narrow field of view and are incapable of thinking outside the box.

If you learn to use the tools at hand, you can handle anything really.

You know there is a quote tool, I’m using it right now. No need to act so passive aggressive.

And I’m not saying you can’t do damage, I’m talking about damage that rivals other dedicated damage classes.

You can’t honestly sit here and tell us that with learning to handle turret will ever make them viable, or a full gadget build something that rivals other classes.

Pretty much every build can solo PvE, but when you compare different roles that engineers can achieve, to the other roles that other classes potentially can, plenty falls to the side with the engineer.

This is about comparing it to the other classes if you read the thread, not about whether or not you can do well.

I have no doubt that you are very skilled at doing damage with turrets, but I doubt anyone would take you over a warrior with equal skill and his rifle/GS/Axes build.

Sure, the engineer may not be as powerful as other classes, but i’d still recommend making one.
Once the big bugs start getting fixed and hopefully when we get buffs, the engineer will be a great and even more enjoyable/fun class.

Lyuben, come one now, I know your sharper then that. You should be well aware that the forums bug out for a lot of posters a lot of times, making it impossible at times to quote.

As well, just because you claim something is “not viable” doesn’t make it true. Turrets are certainly viable. Simply because they are not perfectly practical in all situations does not make “not viable”.

As far as your other presumptuous and incorrect claim that there is only one viable damage build. I am unclear what your point is about gadgets, as they are control utilities. Which seems odd for you to point out, because if your a full control build, you can certainly nutruelize any glass cannon build, by disallowing them to even act, which would basically negate all of their damage.

Also, your comparison is to a very specific warrior build. There are many warrior builds that they would reject for a specific role your referring to as well. That doesn’t make all the other warrior builds “not viable”.

All your point does is display how rifle/GS/Axes build warriors could be OP, or at least, that is how your argument comes off. Glass cannon grenade engineers can do the same damage as the warrior build you refer to, yet have solid constant range.

coglin.1496:

Lyuben, come one now, I know your sharper then that. You should be well aware that the forums bug out for a lot of posters a lot of times, making it impossible at times to quote.

As well, just because you claim something is “not viable” doesn’t make it true. Turrets are certainly viable. Simply because they are not perfectly practical in all situations does not make “not viable”.

As far as your other presumptuous and incorrect claim that there is only one viable damage build. I am unclear what your point is about gadgets, as they are control utilities. Which seems odd for you to point out, because if your a full control build, you can certainly nutruelize any glass cannon build, by disallowing them to even act, which would basically negate all of their damage.

The point is this: viable, is one thing. But stacking up to other classes is another. Turrets may well be viable, but they certainly fall short in many cases, and are nowhere near ‘top’ tier damage. Top tier damage, is the greatsword warrior, the grenade engineer, the heartseeker thief and other such things.

And the issue with gadgets is: they are horribly limited in what their scope is. They have a single purpose, and that’s it. Slick shoes is simply a knockdown. It may also offer a faster run speed every now and then, but when you compare it to something like the grenade kit indeed, or a fully traited elixir, its scope and limitations are very clear.

So, the problem with gadgets isn’t that they aren’t good at control, the problem is that they are good at it, but only good at that, and when they are in the presence of things like elixirs, which allow for so much utility and use when traited. The opportunity cost for picking turrets and gadgets, and some kits such as tool kit and flamethrower is too high, you lose too much because other potential utilities and kits perform roles better, or perform more roles.

For example, a hammer warrior already has lots of CC, he has 3 just from the hammer, and 2 of them are great hard CC, and 2 of them are AoE. He can add a lot to his build, and he will be great at CC and other things, depending on what he adds.

But an engineer with gadgets, will just be good at CC, gagdets don’t give freedom to be good at much else. Elixirs do though, they give you the option of helping you survive with stun breakers and defensive boons, help you with offensive boons, help your allies with offensive and defensive boons, so supportive and can be very powerful condition removal, on short cooldowns. They simply have, like the likes of a warriors hammer, the ability to give a build multiple dimensions.

Engineer has a mountain of bugs and design flaws like Turrets not selecting your target or Sigils not working with Kits. But it’s still enjoyable with the amount of control you have over your opponent. There is a build for every situation that comes your way. The major thing that Engineers lack right now is Boon stripping, as we only have one skill (Throw Mine) that does it.

I would have to agree with Lyuben as the usefulness of Elixirs vs. everything else. I went over it a little while ago with the thread title, “Gadgets need some help.” With the amount of traits that improve Elixirs beyond the usefulness of other utilities, we’re pretty much locked into Elixirs. If not, Condition Builds will decimate us without batting an eyelash.

Your making a lot of apples to oranges comparisons though. Of coarse you cannot compare a control build engineer to a glass cannon eviscerate/hundred blades focus warrior. You compare a glass cannon grenade engineer to the, glass cannon eviscerate/hundred blades focus warrior. And those two are very comparable.

You need to be realistic here, and stop comparing niche builds of one style to niche builds of a very different style and look at them evenly.

I guarantee you, I have smashed many glass cannon eviscerate/hundred blades focus warrior, with a pure control built engineer, because I was able to counter every one of there abilities, and with the glass cannon build, it takes little damage to down them.

As well, you do keep making direct comparisons to warriors. The thread is no “how do engineers compare to warriors”. Even the devs have made it clear that they feel the warriors are the most balanced class at this point. They as well, have higher standard Hp and defense then engineers. It is not reasonable in a “How engineers stack up to other classes” thread, to strictly compare every engineer build to cherry picked warrior builds, and pass that off as a comparison to “other classes”.

Aristio.2784:

The major thing that Engineers lack right now is Boon stripping, as we only have one skill (Throw Mine) that does it.

Not much of a valid point to direct at engineers alone. We are only one of three classes that can do this at all. Mesmers, engineers, and necros are the only three classes that can do this in any complicity what so ever. So it is a little narrow sighted to attempt to pass it off as if it is an issue unique to the engineer.

Particularly in a thread asking to compare them to other professions as a whole. As a matter of fact, taking that into account, you present it as a negative, yet it is something we have an option to do, that 5/8 of the other classes cannot do.

Again your pushing a somewhat rare ability that we have access too that most classes do not as if it is a bad thing.

Thieves remove boons pretty well too. So Mesmers/Thieves/Necromancers can remove boons reliably. Guardians and Engineers -can- remove boons, but not as well as the three I said.

Also, stop stalking me. You have literally gone back to other threads where I’ve replied and +1 everyone’s post but mine. That’s desperation man, and frankly a bit creepy.

Ive literally not been comparing a single build vs another build. I have no clue what you read into my post.

I’m not saying, nor have I intended to say GS build vs Grenade.

I’m simply saying that these are builds, which are at the top of their game. That isn’t comparison, its analysis of the game.

And the place I am indeed comparing things is in the depth of gadget builds, when compared with the depth of elixirs, and something as simple as a hammer. Its not apples and oranges, its comparing how two builds vary in depth, I am comparing the depth, not the practical application of the builds. And the point I was trying to prove is: turrets and gadgets have no depth. They are very simple and one dimensional, unlike other things.

Let me put it this way. On every other server I joined yesterday there was someone crying about how OP engineers are.

Are they really OP? Nah…
But they’re strong enough to seriouslykitten people off.

I think they’re one of the most balanced classes atm. If anything they just need a minor boost to pistol dadmage, otherwise they are very capable.

Recursivision.2367:

Let me put it this way. On every other server I joined yesterday there was someone crying about how OP engineers are.

Are they really OP? Nah…
But they’re strong enough to seriouslykitten people off.

I think they’re one of the most balanced classes atm. If anything they just need a minor boost to pistol dadmage, otherwise they are very capable.

It is just like every other class, there is a specific glass cannon like build that does ridiculous damage.

The problem with that, in my opinion, is that those particular builds get to much focus on them, and a lot of players turn blinders on when it comes to the class as a whole. Anyone who chooses not to stack power/precision/+crit damage cannot touch that damage. To me, it is a fair give and take, when you look at the lack of Hp pool, defense, and an absolute inability to do anything other then damage.

Once they get Deployable Turrets working, the turrets’ll be a more viable choice for the Engineer who doesn’t want to go running into combat, at least.

The various cooldown-reduction traits would also be really nice to have all fixed and working.

Other than that, well, Engineer’s my favorite class. I just wish it worked right.

They have a lot of options so you can seriously change up your game at your fancy!
It’s just that right now there are many bugs, some ineffective mechanics, and some pigeon-holing aspects that currently put a limit over that huge pool of options.

The core of the engineer has some seriously awesome fun-factor potential, it just hasn’t blossomed yet.

Most things have already been said. I just wanted to add that the pistol auto attack does the same dps as a ranger’s pet-cat (tried it on a heavy target golem).

So if you plan on using pistols as your main damage source (rifle and kits are okay), you shouldn’t get your hopes up.

-One of the highest skill caps in the game.
-One of the most difficult classes with which to play/succeed.
-Odds are, you’ll spend the first 40-70 levels trying to find a build that you actually like/works for you.
-This is the music that plays in your head when you find ‘that’ build:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OWfTNwpWZY

PotatoOverdose.6583:

-One of the highest skill caps in the game.
-One of the most difficult classes with which to play/succeed.
-Odds are, you’ll spend the first 40-70 levels trying to find a build that you actually like/works for you.
-This is the music that plays in your head when you find ‘that’ build:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OWfTNwpWZY

The skill in an engineer, comes from making a build. I disagree that they are a hard class to play. I do agree with your second point, but it does not mean that it translates into actual gameplay.

When the chips are down, and you know what you want to do, engineers tend to be fairly simple enough to master. You always have access to your toolbelts, you aren’t restricted from them at any point, your kits have 0 cooldown, gadgets all work in a very simple way, nothing complex and elixirs are simply the classic ‘buff’ type utility.

Only complex thing I see with engineer is turrets, due to the positional requirements, and the fact that they rely on AI and have their own HP bar, but aside from that, engineers are fairly simple.

I think the engineer is mid-to-high tier depending on the build and player. The class is versatile in that it can do most roles pretty well. The thing really is to find a build that you’re comfortable with because, coming from playing guardian, I felt that the engineer had lots of options and can be overwhelming at times. Overall I thinks the class is just really solid in PVE, WvWvW and PVP.

What saddens me is frankly, the limited, one-dimensional view most players seem to have when it comes to pvp. Engineer is compared to other classes based purely on a single role. “Play class x instead of engie, it does y better.” Engies strength is that the class can adress all roles, on the fly. You will not be able to spam burst like a warrior/thief. You will not be able to spam ai helpers like Mesmer/necro. You will not be able to be an indestrctable bunker like guardian (although shield/pistol/bomb engies come very close). The point of engie is versatility, and having counters to literally ever other class.

The key to successful engie play is execution. This is why they are mostly considered a high skillcap class. There is little room for error. Once competent play is achieved, engies have no counter class; teams must 2v1 you, opening opportinities for your team. This is why most time engies are assigned node guarding roles instead of roaming or node assualt, even though they are certainly capable of doing so.

If your personal playstyle is to maximize a single role, engie may not be the class for you, because they can accomplish and overcome all roles. Their balance in this is not being the “best” at single roles.

There are a lot of builds which frankly suck on the engineer when played solo or without the right class mix.

For example I tried out a build this weekend using a 10,30, 0, 0, 30 build. Setup for rifles, with medkit, pbr, tool kit, rifle turret, and mortar.

My gear was a 3 way split between berzerkers, rampagers, and clerics, with a full set of centaur runes.

I didn’t intend to use this spec, it’s fairly squishy stat wise, it has no CC break, or condition removal, but it ended up being monstrously effective.

When you combine those 3 tool belt abilities together they give an insane amount of ranged burst damage, added with the fact they are 100% chance projectile finishers. With a mesmer using the confusion combo fields you can toss up 5-6 stacks of confusion, with 3-4 being AoE with each field. This added to the ability damage, static discharge, blunderbuss, and jumpshot meant that anything in front of you gets liquified.

Add in a support guardian pulling, healing, and removing conditions, 2 healing shout warriors, a high damage ele / ranger / thief and it becomes an extremely deadly setup. Mortar also gives you a lot of support ontop of group swiftness in WvW. The AoE slows, and the healing from the water field even when you only have a few + healing items easily tops 400-450 a tick.

I can’t really run this build alone, but with support it seems monstrous.

I think that the main strength of the engineer right now is its complexity and mediocrity. My alt warrior is easy to play and easy to win with, but I find myself having less fun without the challenge that engineer abilities bring.

“Once competent play is achieved, engies have no counter class; teams must 2v1 you, opening opportinities for your team.”

The hyperbole on this forum is really starting to get out of hand, frankly. Every class has versatility in spvp; my warrior has two knockbacks, two cripples, a daze, an aoe knockdown and a stun in addition to high single target damage, decent melee range aoe and okish burst and I can get an aoe criple and aoe knockback if I grab a Hammer instead of maces.
The engineer isn’t special in terms of versatility or self-sufficiency and if anything riding solo and not using a build that leans towards a specific role is going to hurt your performance and hurt your team.

Here is my personal run-down:

Very strong control, arguably best out of any class. Does anyone else even get a 1200 range root?

Survivability is very, high. Good condition removal, good healing, and decent durability.

DPS can be strong, especially in AOE, but will come second to some of the high damage melee builds.

misanq.2769:

The hyperbole on this forum is really starting to get out of hand, frankly.

This. These threads never fail to attract people who claim they’ve unlocked the Konami Code which turns their engineer into a 3v1 unstoppable juggernaut of destruction that can’t be countered by any other profession, but then they always neglect to offer any insight as to how that’s possible. Probably because the claim has no basis in reality.

It’s a common element amongst the playerbase of mediocre/undpowered classes throughout the history of MMOs: Dominators in City of Villains, the Magus in Warhammer Online, the Metaphysicist in Anarchy Online; all of these classes had a die-hard segment of their population which insisted they knew something that everyone else hadn’t figured out, that everybody else playing the class was just doing it wrong. People have a deep seated need to grasp at any straw which will make them feel better than their peers, and the human capacity for self deception is without equal.

The class is riddled with bugs, it only has 2-3 good specs to use, none of which stand out in a crowd.
However in a team with solid teamwork you will perform slightly better then some classes rightnow, i would say Engineers are in the middle of the pack, with Wars & Rogues at the top, and Elementalists and Necroes near the bottom.

I have to disagree with misanq. Engineers have much more versatility than other classes. I’ll use a simple build as an example.

With Accelerant packed turrets (20 pts in explosives), bomb kit, healing turret, elixir gun, supply crate, and pistol + shield here’s what I get:

3 large AoE Knockbacks (big ol bomb, shield, healing turret detonation)
1 Persistent AoE blind (i.e. the blind reapplies in the given area, smoke field from smoke bomb)
1 Reflect (shield)
1 Chain blind (pistol 3)
1 Stun that gets applied twice and/or 1 block+daze against melee
1 AoE snare + persistent cripple 9glue bomb)
Supply Crate which gives me an additional AoE stun, 3 potential AoE knockbacks (1 for each turret), and a bunch of med kits + some condition removal + immobilize.
1 AoE heal (Detonate healing turret, if properly used).
Unlimited single target vulnerability. (Elixir 1)
1 Cripple + AoE swiftness (Elixir 2)
1 Light field which can act as persistent condition removal or a retribution field depending on projectile attacks, blast finisher, or melee finisher (Elixir 5).
1 AoE condition removal (Elixer gun 3)

And that’s with 50 trait points left over and one utillity skill left over for whatever you want. This is just a sample build to showcase what engineers can do.

Compare my list with what your warrior can do. There’s no magical konami code. It’s just knowing what your skills can do, how to use them, and how they interact with traits.

The skill in using an engineer is being able to bring all of your myriad of abillities to bear quickly and effectively.

I think you’re misunderstanding the concept of versatility somewhat; if anything that build is less versatile than the warrior build I run. The reason I posted all the CC skills my warrior can do was to show that person that warriors have a similar skillset to bunker-mode bomb engineers for keeping people off of nodes.
Either way, as I was saying that build isn’t versatile at all, because it lacks burst damage, has subpar long range damage and lacks damage in general and is extremely vulnerable to condition wipes and flips.
On the other hand, my warrior can also knock people off nodes, wipe conditions, block, stack vulnerability 5-9x (in a feasible way), cripple, stun, daze, snare, aoe res teammates, do powerful burst damage, do high ranged and melee damage and have 27k hp in glass cannon gear. And it can do that without investing any talent points.

The point I’m making isn’t that one class is better than the other, it’s that most classes have setups that can do similar things to what the what the engineer can do with kit stacking.

Maderas.9741:

This. These threads never fail to attract people who claim they’ve unlocked the Konami Code which turns their engineer into a 3v1 unstoppable juggernaut of destruction that can’t be countered by any other profession, but then they always neglect to offer any insight as to how that’s possible. Probably because the claim has no basis in reality.

I submit the Node Defense Engineer: http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fcAQFAUl0p6ZX3SfF17ISoHFmEqWieUZWmj9pgcB;TkAgzCmosxYjwGrNObk2MIA

This gave me GREAT survivability with the Water Field Condition removal and massive amounts of Regen. Not saying this is a be-all end-all build, just something to try out!

To the OP, the engineer stands up pretty well against the other classes. In PvE, it’s quite amazing. I ran a tanky bomb build based on the above for a while that kept me alive almost as long as the Guardian I ran with. In WvWvW, Engineers are AWESOME thanks to 1200 ranged AOE Grenades.

It’s hard for me to say in sPvP. What I can tell you is it’s MUCH harder to be a good Engineer than it is to be a good Warrior. Just take the Heal skill for instance. Using the Med kit requires 5 key presses (F1, Q, 1,2,3) in order to get a full 8k heal off. The Engineer can have 14-34 skills depending on the number of kits they take.