Guild Wars 2

I know how good engineers are in TPvP due to the fact that I main one in TPvP. I am completely PvE stupid. I’ve heard conditions are a joke in PvE and everyone runs zerker. How good are condition engis in PvE? Will I get kicked from Dungeon Groups, or Fractals, etc for running a condition build? I don’t plan on running dual pistols cause I want the shield blast finisher. I’ve heard people say they will accept ONLY: Ele, Guard, Warrior, and Mesmer. Like I have been told that I will not be able to play with them If i play an engi whether its zerker nades or condi nades. So can anyone shed some light on this subject?

i wouldn’t go full conditions. if you’re determined to have some condition damage, rampager/carrion/celestial might be a better option. as for being kicked from dungeon groups, that just depends on the group. i’ve had 1500 ap warriors criticize my builds and then spend 80% of the run on the floor.

but yeah engis are quite good in pve.

You won’t get kicked as long as noone knows. And even if someone knows, only fotm 30++ seem to carry about what you are doing (since the instability may cause some real challenge). Better just go full zerker, it outdamages conditions by far!

Engi is pretty underrated. The reason is the same as for the ranger: 99% of the players don’t know what they actually are doing. Examples:

• Dual Pistol or Pistol AA user: Instakick. Same damage as a melee GS Mesmer. Pistol = Condition damage = weak. Most terrible scenario you can see.
• Rifle / Flamethrower only (with HGH): Those engis will deal damage but grant almost 0 utility, vulnerability, heal, might. Also the damage is not higher than the warriors. No reason to take this one.

The right answer is: Heal Turret, Grenades, Bombs, Elixier Gun, Pistol + Shield in general. Change skills / weapons for specific situations.
For example a rifle is great for the hold on 2 at for example dredge fractale endboss. However, even if it’s not much difference – since Skill 3 and 5 do hit extremly hard, they are good for AoE, but won’t outdamage bombs cast in this time + an additional blast finisher. Or change to stability or reflection elixiers at harpy frac. Toolkit for Block against Mai etc etc etc.

The main reason to take an engineer is that he will be able to:

• grant almost permanently 12 stacks might with a long dura
• keep the vulnerability stacks at 25, even against bosses who have reduced debuff duras (especially here he shines)
• heal aoe aswell clean tons of conditions with turret + elixier gun 3 (secretly op)
• best AoE damage in the game, buddy of the ele (most of engi skills hit 5 targets, not only 3 – when the warrior unleashes the 3x 50k over 3 sec, you’ll do 5x 3x 6k bombs…)
• tons of blinds to prevent dmg, prevent heal / dodge, increase dps
• invisibility, cc, and tons of conditions

The engi is extremly underrated. I bet he deals the same damage or slightly less damage as the ele or warrior, however combined with much more other stuff. The thing is, he is most about passive damge granted by might and vulnerability and by preventing damage. Main damage still great (bomb 1 hits for 4-8k per sec per target). Still, the engineer seems to be the hardest class to play efficient. Press like 3254 buttons for 12 stacks might -> guard presses 1. Still, extremly fun I promise.

Xyonon.3987:

The engi is extremly underrated. I bet he deals the same damage or slightly less damage as the ele or warrior, however combined with much more other stuff.

There are very few classes that can compete dmg-wise with eles, engineer is not one of them. Engineer is bottom tier in terms of dps, but makes up for it with their vulnerability stacking and group support.

Wow guys I didn’t expect such detailed replies. Thanks so much. I sadly have already bought full dire with rabid trinkets(2 ascended) and my engi hit 80 like 2 days ago. But I can use that for WvW If I decide to step into that crazy place. Yeah I really love playing engi in TPvP because they really excel and I will try this full zerker thing even though It’s sad that it’s apparently the only thing viable in PvE.

I feel like I both do more damage and bring more utility on my dps engineer than I do on my dps guardian. Ele does ridiculous damage right now though, especially counting FGS rushing and Frost Bow 4 against bosses/structures with large hitboxes. I don’t have a warrior at 80 yet, so I can’t compare those, but I do feel very effective running 30/30/0/0/10 on engineer.

TurtleDragon.3108:

Xyonon.3987:

The engi is extremly underrated. I bet he deals the same damage or slightly less damage as the ele or warrior, however combined with much more other stuff.

There are very few classes that can compete dmg-wise with eles, engineer is not one of them. Engineer is bottom tier in terms of dps, but makes up for it with their vulnerability stacking and group support.

Seems like you quitted the engi too early, played him wrong or simply quote other nobrainers…
It definitly depends on the situation. If there is just one target, the engy just can grant the vulnerability stacks without overwhelming damage. However he does not really suffer in terms of damage if there are many targets, unlike almost any other class. Noone has a 40k+ DpS against 5+ enemies, except the engi and ele. Deal with it.

Xyonon.3987:

• keep the vulnerability stacks at 25, even against bosses who have reduced debuff duras (especially here he shines)

How to do this without food / giver’s weapons?

The issue isn’t that condition engis are bad in PvE, it’s that condition builds in general are bad for PvE. Due to condition stack limits and the way that poison and burning stack duration, a group of condition specced players will negate each others damage. This is why power is king in PvE.

As for zerker, it’s because PvE is played by dodging big telegraphed attacks rather than mitigating multiple smaller attacks. In PvP, vit & tough increase survivability. But in PvE, many boss attacks will 1-shot you no matter how much health you have.

Xyonon.3987:

You won’t get kicked as long as noone knows. And even if someone knows, only fotm 30++ seem to carry about what you are doing (since the instability may cause some real challenge). Better just go full zerker, it outdamages conditions by far!

Engi is pretty underrated. The reason is the same as for the ranger: 99% of the players don’t know what they actually are doing. Examples:

• Dual Pistol or Pistol AA user: Instakick. Same damage as a melee GS Mesmer. Pistol = Condition damage = weak. Most terrible scenario you can see.
• Rifle / Flamethrower only (with HGH): Those engis will deal damage but grant almost 0 utility, vulnerability, heal, might. Also the damage is not higher than the warriors. No reason to take this one.

The right answer is: Heal Turret, Grenades, Bombs, Elixier Gun, Pistol + Shield in general. Change skills / weapons for specific situations.
For example a rifle is great for the hold on 2 at for example dredge fractale endboss. However, even if it’s not much difference – since Skill 3 and 5 do hit extremly hard, they are good for AoE, but won’t outdamage bombs cast in this time + an additional blast finisher. Or change to stability or reflection elixiers at harpy frac. Toolkit for Block against Mai etc etc etc.

The main reason to take an engineer is that he will be able to:

• grant almost permanently 12 stacks might with a long dura
• keep the vulnerability stacks at 25, even against bosses who have reduced debuff duras (especially here he shines)
• heal aoe aswell clean tons of conditions with turret + elixier gun 3 (secretly op)
• best AoE damage in the game, buddy of the ele (most of engi skills hit 5 targets, not only 3 – when the warrior unleashes the 3x 50k over 3 sec, you’ll do 5x 3x 6k bombs…)
• tons of blinds to prevent dmg, prevent heal / dodge, increase dps
• invisibility, cc, and tons of conditions

The engi is extremly underrated. I bet he deals the same damage or slightly less damage as the ele or warrior, however combined with much more other stuff. The thing is, he is most about passive damge granted by might and vulnerability and by preventing damage. Main damage still great (bomb 1 hits for 4-8k per sec per target). Still, the engineer seems to be the hardest class to play efficient. Press like 3254 buttons for 12 stacks might -> guard presses 1. Still, extremly fun I promise.

I agree with pretty much everything you have said here other than I personally prefer thumper turret to elixir gun, while elixir gun will grant more might uptime total and more utility, the thumper turret allows for 3 quick blast finisher for bursting down bosses, allowing you to provide your whole group with 21 stacks of might (number of blast finishers possible while using grenade kit, bomb kit, and thumper turret with offhand shield: 1(shield #4) 1(detonate heal turret) 1(supply crate) 3(thumper turret overcharge, detonate, toolbelt skill rumble) 1(Big Ol’ Bomb))7 blast finishers multiplied by 3 stacks of might by each for 21 might.

Xyonon.3987:

TurtleDragon.3108:

Xyonon.3987:

The engi is extremly underrated. I bet he deals the same damage or slightly less damage as the ele or warrior, however combined with much more other stuff.

There are very few classes that can compete dmg-wise with eles, engineer is not one of them. Engineer is bottom tier in terms of dps, but makes up for it with their vulnerability stacking and group support.

Seems like you quitted the engi too early, played him wrong or simply quote other nobrainers…
It definitly depends on the situation. If there is just one target, the engy just can grant the vulnerability stacks without overwhelming damage. However he does not really suffer in terms of damage if there are many targets, unlike almost any other class. Noone has a 40k+ DpS against 5+ enemies, except the engi and ele. Deal with it.

Single target is the only DPS that matters. Unless you’re in fractals, no one cares if you can do “40k+ dps” on trash when you run past most of it in this game anyways, or fight 2-4 targets at a time most of the time.

The whole point of my response was to call out your BS on saying engineers do as much damage as elementalists in single target. (ie. boss fights)

• heal aoe aswell clean tons of conditions with turret + elixier gun 3 (secretly op)

WHAT?! What is secretly op? A decent skill? What else, maybe weakness is “secretly op” – let it be 1/26666666 of second. What else? aaaa I know – the fact that we have +200 armor while using jag – thats “secretly op” – lets make it -200. Ppl like u are the reason that eng are being nerfed… You will repeat this 100times , some other more active class forum will magnify it and booom we have a nerft. All because of the “secretly op”….

BTW – I was kicked so many times due to not being zerk…. I run conditioneer with burning, its not so bad but huge dmg it is not. I tried power eng as well and it was a little bit better but still lack huge dps – especially ft…

Elixir Gun 3 is ‘secretly OP’ because it cleanses like 5 conditions on allies within its cone. And yet people don’t use it. Hence the ‘secretly’.

Misunderstood, tought u were one of them – “better nerf these nades” warriors

TurtleDragon.3108:

Single target is the only DPS that matters. Unless you’re in fractals, no one cares if you can do “40k+ dps” on trash when you run past most of it in this game anyways, or fight 2-4 targets at a time most of the time.

The whole point of my response was to call out your BS on saying engineers do as much damage as elementalists in single target. (ie. boss fights)

I’m not gonna argue that Ele’s are really strong with single target. Especially Fire Staff with 2x Elementals. Engi’s, depending on the build, are definitely one of the better DPS though. On par or higher then a lot of DPS builds.

AoE does matter in PvE, I used to think otherwise but I’ve since changed my mind. Trash that you don’t skip can be just as time consuming as boss fights and in some cases harder. Even Rifle/SD is competitive with a majority of classes if others are applying Might and Vulnerability. I’ve tested a number of builds across almost all classes and Engi’s do quite well and can bring a ton of utility to the group.

People that refuse to bring an Engi are simply ignorant.

I consider condition damage in PvE extra damage when I can get the ticks, I don’t rely on it though. In testing Rampager’s Grenades ranks highest, in practice Zerker will out perform it simply because of the crappy condition mechanics.

Blood~

I love EG’s Fumigate, and use it on my allies whenever I get hit with a condition. It’s got such a low cooldown that I can afford to almost waste it as a just-in-case my allies got the same conditions I did.

rogerwilko.6895:

Xyonon.3987:

• keep the vulnerability stacks at 25, even against bosses who have reduced debuff duras (especially here he shines)

How to do this without food / giver’s weapons?

Bufffood is requires against champs+. Cheapest is from that dragonpolter event. +40% condi dura for a few silver. Awesome stuff … and tastes good too! ^.^

Infamous Darkness.3284:

I personally prefer thumper turret to elixir gun, while elixir gun will grant more might uptime total and more utility

Indeed it seems to have way more blast finishers for might. However utility wise? Elixier gun heal, cleanse and a high dps field / escape makes it better for utility. Probably gonna switch it more often with the turret now, ty for that input!

TurtleDragon.3108:

Single target is the only DPS that matters. Unless you’re in fractals, no one cares if you can do “40k+ dps” on trash when you run past most of it in this game anyways, or fight 2-4 targets at a time most of the time.

The whole point of my response was to call out your BS on saying engineers do as much damage as elementalists in single target. (ie. boss fights)

The only DpS that metters? Tell me one dungeon that has no aoe damage to be done. Even 1-4 targets are enought to deal the same damage. The engi deals definitly the same, even more damage on single target too, however he does it more passive than active, requires a good hitting team. Mightstacks are a part of it, but mainly the vulnerability makes the big+. Without an engineer vuln against bosses is stuck at 10-15 stacks. The engi will grant the team at least 10 stacks. 10% more damage for 5x at least 5k dps hitters = 2.5k passive damage without even attacking. Ye – the engi pretty much outdamages the ele, however 1 engis won’t outdamage 1 ele … passive damage <3

Bloodgruve.6038:

I’m not gonna argue that Ele’s are really strong with single target. Especially Fire Staff with 2x Elementals. Engi’s, depending on the build, are definitely one of the better DPS though. On par or higher then a lot of DPS builds.

AoE does matter in PvE, I used to think otherwise but I’ve since changed my mind. Trash that you don’t skip can be just as time consuming as boss fights and in some cases harder. Even Rifle/SD is competitive with a majority of classes if others are applying Might and Vulnerability. I’ve tested a number of builds across almost all classes and Engi’s do quite well and can bring a ton of utility to the group.

People that refuse to bring an Engi are simply ignorant.

I consider condition damage in PvE extra damage when I can get the ticks, I don’t rely on it though. In testing Rampager’s Grenades ranks highest, in practice Zerker will out perform it simply because of the crappy condition mechanics.

Blood~

Agreed 100% with that post – good sir, take my like!

ellesee.8297:

i wouldn’t go full conditions. if you’re determined to have some condition damage, rampager/carrion/celestial might be a better option. as for being kicked from dungeon groups, that just depends on the group. i’ve had 1500 ap warriors criticize my builds and then spend 80% of the run on the floor.

but yeah engis are quite good in pve.

same for me
i run bomb/healer on some dungeon and fractal
when i get some ascended weapon/armor for my engy i run it in high fractal to
im tired to play mesmer on 40+ fractal

Xyonon.3987:

TurtleDragon.3108:

Single target is the only DPS that matters. Unless you’re in fractals, no one cares if you can do “40k+ dps” on trash when you run past most of it in this game anyways, or fight 2-4 targets at a time most of the time.

The whole point of my response was to call out your BS on saying engineers do as much damage as elementalists in single target. (ie. boss fights)

The only DpS that metters? Tell me one dungeon that has no aoe damage to be done. Even 1-4 targets are enought to deal the same damage. The engi deals definitly the same, even more damage on single target too, however he does it more passive than active, requires a good hitting team. Mightstacks are a part of it, but mainly the vulnerability makes the big+. Without an engineer vuln against bosses is stuck at 10-15 stacks. The engi will grant the team at least 10 stacks. 10% more damage for 5x at least 5k dps hitters = 2.5k passive damage without even attacking. Ye – the engi pretty much outdamages the ele, however 1 engis won’t outdamage 1 ele … passive damage <3
!

I meant to say single target and cleave. So there are plenty of dungeon paths where AoE (4-5 targets) are not needed. Heres a list off the top of my head:
CM 123
TA F
SE 1,3
CoF 1
HotW 1,2,3
CoE 123
Arah 123(4 too prolly)

(I’m not including whites since those die instantly, only elites and above)

4-5 target AoE is great in fractals.

Just because the class has low damage, doesn’t mean its bad. Never in my post have I implied or said that. You guys don’t need to tell all about their utility or why they’re worth bringing. Every class can do competitive DPS in a organized zerker group, but there is a pretty big imbalance from the low end of the spectrum to the top end.

How can you call 4-8k bombs per sec low dps, even single target? o.O

well a zerker do 9-13k on single target
and if u use a granade u can do the same thing to 2-3 target for 8-10k only power dmg

30-30-0-0-10 build who someone play do that and this is a good build for speed run dungeon (CoF – AC – HotW – SE – ecc)
but for fractal i prefere survivability

We’ll never really know who has the best and worst DPS unless we get an accurate comprehensive DPS meter. Until then its all speculation and conjecture. The best I could do was test some builds and classes on a single target. If I rank the best tests class by class its Ele>Mesmer>Guard>Engi>others*. This is enough for me to say that we’re in a pretty good spot.

*All dependent on gear, build, rotation, skill, boons, conditions and encounter obviously.

Blood~

Bloodgruve.6038:

We’ll never really know who has the best and worst DPS unless we get an accurate comprehensive DPS meter. Until then its all speculation and conjecture. The best I could do was test some builds and classes on a single target. If I rank the best tests class by class its Ele>Mesmer>Guard>Engi>others*. This is enough for me to say that we’re in a pretty good spot.

*All dependent on gear, build, rotation, skill, boons, conditions and encounter obviously.

Blood~

It’s not speculation, it’s theory crafted . And your list will be more accurate if you added thief into the top 3. So that places engineer at bottom 4.

Show me the validation on these and I’ll gladly accept it. I have yet to find that. I’ve worked with a number of spreadsheets and built my own. None of them validate any others nor do they correlate directly to what I’ve seen in game. If I’ve missed something though I’m happy to reassess my tests.

Blood~

with zerker set but high dmg / high risk
1 thief
2 war
3 mesmer
4 engy
5 ranger
6 ele
7 guardia
8 necro
engy is a balanced class for all setup we got
if they fix some bug and add somthing on gadget, we got a perfect class

I have been asked to relogg from my engineer to any other class before we even started the instance. I had a grenade-build at the time.
Then again that group was terrible. Maybe they couldnt do anything but flame citadel p1 fast runs or something.

Usually and as far as instances go no one cares what I am doing or what class I am playing as long as I dont’ die all the time.
I make a point of not joining the labeled zerker groups any more in the LFG because they tend to be complete morons who spend all the time bickering, dieing or ragequitting.
Dont get me wrong, I did zerker runs for a while (not with my engi). They can be faster if everyone knows what he is doing. But tbh: they are not that much faster. It depends on the encounter.

The one thing were ppl actually pay attention are the higher lvl fractals. Again: zerker could be faster and all that… . Guildgroups, TS and ppl who know what they are doing do pull it off. But those won’t argue against a grenadeer-zerker.
Those who will tend to be so narrowminded that they just know one way to play and as soon as something unexpected happens (= someone joining the party who does not run full zerker but utility, healage or, gods forbid, conditions) they either kick you (and you dont have to worry about them any more) or start arguing and consequently dieing because you cant do 30+ fotms while typing all the time.

shorter version:
play what you like and be good at it. to hell with zerker runs. they are overrated. you can do all the normal instances anyway. fotm.. well: you need to play them some before you are 30+. and then you ll know for yourself what you like best.

Good post, Fifty. I tend to stay away from groups that ask for a specific profession in order to do content, like “fractals, lf Guardian”. I have found more often than not that groups like that are not some pro group that wants the “perfect” combo of professions, but instead have come to rely on things like Wall of Reflection as a crutch. I would much rather play with a group that feels the way I do; player > profession.

not all fractals need a guardian or a zerker build
for dredge i would get in party a thief or a engy/mesmer who can stealth
for underwater take off who dont make aoe dmg
for the tourmanova reactor dont needed close combat ppl and war with bow or rifle lose 30% of their dmg
a balanced team go faster than a zerker team
all the time i go with a zerker team, 50% of the time is res on boss

So true. and I imagine that this is as it should be.