Guild Wars 2

Anet really needs a design focus for the Engineers and they really need to look no further than their own lore AND representative for the Engineer class: The Charr.

Engineers need a design goal. Look no farther than the Iron Legion

On the Asura:
The engineer is a tech-based class based on Charr technological advances. Outright magical effects on the Engineer are fairly minimal; in fact I’d argue that since the Engineer is the only class that doesn’t have any sort of signet, it’s the class that’s the least reliant on magic. This means that Asuran technology, which is magic based, can be put aside until an expansion allows magic-based technology (or magitek) to be more fully fleshed out. Right now, focusing on Charr efficiency and reliability would be in the best interest of the class as a whole, eliminating the stereotypical “bumbling tinker” and “mad scientist” archetypes that are holding the class back. It’s because of this split attention to cover as many of these archetypes throughout other fiction that Engineers are failing so hard, as opposed to just using their own in-universe example.

In short, too much Goblin/Gnome WoW style engineering. Not enough Charr GUILD WARS lore type engineering.

The Iron Legion
It’s easiest for me to explain how the Iron Legion functions in regards to how it works in tandem with the Blood and Ash Legions in the Iron Legion personal story. It goes like this: If the Ash Legion controls fights through information and sabotage while the Blood Legion does the heavy lifting by damaging enemy forces, the Iron Legion would be the support that supplies the other two with what they need. While not a perfect representation of the Thief and Warrior, I’d argue that support is the direction that Engineers should be focused towards rather than this crappy “Versatile, but not as versatile as Elementalists” position that they’re in.

Anyways, in the story, your character develops the “Ghostbore musket,” a firearm in terms of Engineer traitlines. However, later on in the story you’re asked to supply your ghostbore prototypes to either the Ash or the Blood legion, both of whom are trying to argue that their legion will put the tech to better use.

This is important! Here we essentially have a Thief and Warrior fighting over who gets to have the most Engy support! They want us because we have the tools that allow them to perform their jobs better! And that’s not all. While the Iron legion has the most engineering tech and comes up with the base designs, the other legions also have engineers that adapt the ghostbore musket into a turret and cannon respectively to suit their roles. If the ghostbore musket is a firearm based kit, this means that those engineers are taking a Firearm base and changing it to work with their Invention traits or Explosives traits.

If the Charr race is the class that represents the engineer the most strongly, why is it that Engineers don’t have this kind of adaptability? When an engineer traits for deep elixirs, he basically has to use elixir utilities or waste an inherent bonus of the traitline (boon duration) because hardly any other utilities grant boons. An engineer has to trait specifically for grenades if he wants to get any use out of them at all. This is totally backwards from how they should be behaving in-game and lorewise. An Explosives Engineer with only Elixir utilities? No problem! Now you have an Engineer throwing Explosive elixir bombs at enemies that happen to buff allies that they come into contact with. We need condition removal, but our Alchemy engineer brings only turrets! Oh wait, an alchemy based engineer has turrets also shoot condition removal bullets in addition to their normal attack.

And so
This is the design that Engineers should have. An engineer is defined by his utility skills moreso than any other class. As such, his traits shouldn’t define what utility skills he uses; instead he’ll make his utility skills fit his trait line. Engineers won’t be sidekicks to the other professions, ineffectively filling in one that isn’t present to prop up the others. No, that Engineer is gonna be the one blasting enemies off their feet and bombing their defenses while their allies follow up. Or, they’re the ones that are filling their allies full of offensive steroids to the point where Guardians cry that they’re only the best at defensive support now. And so on.

Charr tech focus also means less drawbacks. Overcharge Shot and Rocket Boots shouldn’t knock you on your butt. The only random thing about elixirs should be whether they give you Might, Fury, or both! none of this “you have a two in 3 chance of getting something helpful for your current predicament. You got Veil? Sorry that incoming barrage of ranged attacks killed you. But you and your allies working around this is skill!”

Bullet Summary
.Charr tech, not any other race’s tech, Charr tech.
.No uneccessary drawbacks or randomness. The Charr test their Ghost Killing Rifles on non-ghost targets to make sure that they’ll work on the most basic level before real combat. Rocket Boots wouldn’t pass that test.
.Utilities adapt to traits, not the other way around.
.Engineers get a clear role as support. We’re not sidekicks, we’re not the leader rallying troops (leave that to guardians), we’re the masterminds behind an operation… or just the cool tech guy who gives everybody the tools they need to survive.

Examples:
-Acidic Elixirs and Accelerant packed turrets merged into one trait that replaces the Reserve mines minor trait. Damage is equivalent to 2 bomb hits.

-Firearm Rifled barrels affect Turret range as well. Turret rifled barrels replaced with another trait.

I’m not an Asuran or Charr Engineer and I think that relying on Charr technology in the same way we rely on Asuran technology at the moment is equally meaningless. The Engineer set should be something reflecting the Engineer and not a specific race.

I think this is a splendid idea, traits that affect whatever skills you attach them to … I like that idea a LOT. Not that I imagine ANet will pick it up but it’s nice to dream.

@Gozero – As far as I’m aware in lore the only race to invent science-based technology is the Charr; so Engineers from whatever race they may be are all using Charr technology as a base for their skills.

binidj.5734:

I think this is a splendid idea, traits that affect whatever skills you attach them to … I like that idea a LOT. Not that I imagine ANet will pick it up but it’s nice to dream.

@Gozero – As far as I’m aware in lore the only race to invent science-based technology is the Charr; so Engineers from whatever race they may be are all using Charr technology as a base for their skills.

Yep. All Engineers are using Charr-type tech, even the alchemists and bumblers. For a canonical Charr example of loony Engineer…well, how else would you describe the guy trying to launch cows onto the top of a tower with a cattlepult?

Anymras.5729:

binidj.5734:

I think this is a splendid idea, traits that affect whatever skills you attach them to … I like that idea a LOT. Not that I imagine ANet will pick it up but it’s nice to dream.

@Gozero – As far as I’m aware in lore the only race to invent science-based technology is the Charr; so Engineers from whatever race they may be are all using Charr technology as a base for their skills.

Yep. All Engineers are using Charr-type tech, even the alchemists and bumblers. For a canonical Charr example of loony Engineer…well, how else would you describe the guy trying to launch cows onto the top of a tower with a cattlepult?

A revolutionary, truly an unmitigated genius.

binidj.5734:

I think this is a splendid idea, traits that affect whatever skills you attach them to … I like that idea a LOT. Not that I imagine ANet will pick it up but it’s nice to dream.

@Gozero – As far as I’m aware in lore the only race to invent science-based technology is the Charr; so Engineers from whatever race they may be are all using Charr technology as a base for their skills.

That is really cheesying it even more than the official lore writers.

Anyways.

Technology and scientific advancement never ONLY happens in one place, especially when you have the level of interaction going on with asura gates and such. Of course we can have hotspots of extremely rapid development such as the charr in his case, or japan and china now. But has USA stopped their development because they are no longer necessarily considered the best? Did europe lay down and die during the glory days of american engineering? There is always development. As to say that the charr is the only science- based technology geeks just because the asura utilize magic in their tech is also a bit narrow. Sufficiently developed technology is indistinguishable from magic so it is said, and for the asura magic is technology as much as coding in c# is magic for an engineer during the industrial revolution. “Hello world” might as well be an incantation for him or her.

Of course the story is a bit bonky, we are told that the final versions of the submarines are a united effort of all races and the airships apparently even use human technology but they never elaborate on that. Its more of a pat on the back for the non asura and non charr engineers than anything else. Also i find it hilarious that a rag tag band of bandits got their hands on more explosives, turrets and firearms than the entire human nation as a whole.

From an aesthetic viewpoint they do resemble “human design” whatever that means, but i think its more a case of “universal design”, the turrets and gadgets are supposedly to some degree manufactured by you as a character, and thus it would be a bit odd for the sylvari to create a rifle turret made out of half molten metal, overcompensating gears that do nothing and that got a big kill counter dipped in the blood of their enemies. Neither does a charr create a flower turret like the sylvari racial does. This design fits the middle ground and even now players are complaining that the turrets they place as an asura does not glow, fire lasers and glow.

I think really that’s more what you are after, more engineer themed charr skills than charr themed engineer skills.

What the charrs did was introducing the concept of the “combat engineer” as in both an engineer and a soldier, but looking at how every race can create one i would say that the others where quick to follow. And before ideas of making the engineer a charr only profession, lets remove the option to create charr elementalists, guardians, necromancers and mesmers seeing how they utilize magic.

Sidenote: Didn’t the developers mention that the use of elixirs and such where of asuran flavor, in ghosts of ascalon the elixir chugging engineer is an asura.