Guild Wars 2

Theres any way to use this kit? pve , pvp… i really like the concept but it seens a little bit broken and bugged…

PvE, it’s great for aoe farming. Aim using the right mouse button and you shouldn’t receive miss messages. It’s also got high point blank aoe with the fire-explodey ball of awesome. Air blast anyone who’s too close for comfort, and napalm wall while you kite. Smoke screen is kinda meh, but you can use it to prevent knockdowns by risen brutes and whatnot.

PvP, seldom used. You’ll have to ask someone else about it, I’ve never gotten it to perform for me.

Its still slightly on the weak side for spvp.

PVE your still better off with grenades imo. They do more damage have a better combo field, offer more utility through blind, chill, poison.
Also they have better traits for applying vulnerability have one of the longest ranges, and do not have a cap on how many targets their AE’s can hit.(flame thrower auto can only hit 3)

Its ideally if you build tanky (decent toughness lots of vitality) and run a might stacking build. Thus why its traits are in firearms and alchemy. Its supposed to be a good damage option while allowing the user to get in close trade well and do a lot of damage through direct/burning.

last buffs almost made it viable, i’m waiting for the next couple buffs and i might use it more. Overall though, i wouldnt suggest using it unless your running a condition spec and want its toolbelt and napalm.

I have made some headway with this Kit. But theres a reason i refer to my build as “The Lamethrower.” but I have gotten decent results.. There is a very steep learning curve to truly utilize the Flamethrower Kit in a PvP application. And even then its damage is lackluster and utility very unpredictable. Like most Engineer abilities and traits there is little synergy. So you can use this Kit to stack might through juggernaut and the Tool Belt Ability can be put to good use in a condition build. The Knock back from Air Blast is excellent and the projectile reflection is great once you learn every Professions Rotation. Besides Air Blast, Flame Blast is the main reason this Kit can even be maintained. This abilities “Double Pop” can actually put some nice pressure in heated Meta games if you can predict where your opponent is moving, and calibrate the proper distance. (I just hope and pray.. that they will keep this how it is…) Smoke Vent is lacking.. But there are a few specific combos that can be reduced with the proper timing. Flame Jet doesn’t have enough damage to really be sustained but combined with Incendiary Ammo it is possibly one of the best Attacks in the game for flushing out invisible opponents and Mesmer Clone removal. All in all.. Like I said. Out of all the kits, this one has a very steep learning curve to be used aggressively. Most players will switch into this kit for a quick Air Blast or a situational Napalm for condition builds. But it is much easier to go with the survival of the Elixer Gun or the Utility of the Tool Kit. Grenade Kit is also a nice for its versatility judging by your play style, as it can have great power and decent conditions. Bomb Kit can have some nice combos as well.

You take flamethrower for 1 main reason – more damage. You swap to it, double tap 2 at point blank, or launch it at the sweet spot range and then swap anyway and resume your regular damage methods. You also gain access to a 10 second fire field, and a instantaneous point blank AoE blind that you can use between grenade tosses or whatnot.

Several threads on this, very in depth ones at that.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Putting-Flamethrower-on-Par-with-GS/first#post1587467

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Flamethrower-is-still-not-worth-the-slot/first

The second is a heavy read, but if you really want to know the ins and outs of the flamethrower, those are the engis you need to listen to (although always with a grain of salt).

Kamahl.3621:

You take flamethrower for 1 main reason – more damage. You swap to it, double tap 2 at point blank, or launch it at the sweet spot range and then swap anyway and resume your regular damage methods. You also gain access to a 10 second fire field, and a instantaneous point blank AoE blind that you can use between grenade tosses or whatnot.

This. FT 2 adds quite a nice bit of damage burst to your rotation (when it’s not wrecking your chance at a KR grenade burst). Plus, with how rapidly the auto hits, it’s practically guaranteed to proc any on crit effects you may have, traits, sigils etc.

Can usually throw in a few blast finishers onto that fire field for aoe might as well.

It’s better to put in a slot than Toolkit in PvE atm, for these reasons, other than the rare times you may need that block or pull.

As someone who is closing in on 1000 hours as an Engineer, I’ve only in the last couple of days have been using the FT. I’m running a Berserker high crit chance/high crit damage build (aka glass cannon) and the Flame Blast (#2) has been putting up some sick damage (double 4k’s not uncommon). In WvW I recently spread around 18k damage among three opponents that were clustered together. With it’s fast recharge time, I’d say it’s worth the slot now.

Flamethrower is functional in pvp now, although still somewhat weak with a huge lurning curve. You’ll learn to like it in zergs due to the massive amount of bags you’ll get. With so many hits, it is pretty easy to tag just about every enemy before they die.

Like Soon says, you can get some good results running it as glass cannon, but I don’t recommend it since flamethrower is probably the lowest damage glass cannon build of all classes. Glass cannon build versus glass cannon build in 1v1, your gonna lose against ele, thieves, warriors, and other engineer glass cannon builds of the grenade or rifle variety. As a glass cannon, you aso won’t put out enough damage to quickly burst down someone that is highly defensive. You’ll also destroy yourself when confused or fighting someoen with retalation. However, you’ll be highly effective in like a 3v3 roaming group.

On the other hand, I think you can be highly effective in all situations if you are running high toughness.

On the PvE side of things, most certainly. It offers a Fire field, a knockback/interrupt, and one of our best Power-scaling attacks in Flame Blast. The only other Fire field we have, actually, is with the Bomb Kit … which similarly has its issues in PvE.

Flame Jet is still a bit on the weak side and needs some buffs to be a more competitive DPS option, but overall the Flamethrower works as a great PvE setup designed for a more support/tanky playstyle than the Grenade Kit.

I still use the Grenade Kit in CoF p1 and other “speed run” areas of PvE, but for everything else I use my FT. It’s just how I prefer to play—the same reason I rolled a Guardian as my alt and not a Warrior.

I run P/P and hate the ground-targeting for the grenade kit. FT is my joy. In PvE it’s fun to just burn down a group, aoe blind, then continue burning. I usually open with some P/P action until the mobs are in range, swap to FT and let em have it. True, you don’t get the utility you do with Grenades, but between my other skills and toolbelt, I’m fine.

In WvW, when our keep/tower is being attacked, I will swap to from Tool Kit to Flamethrower.

Flame Jet through the Doors keeps the pressure on those manning Rams. Using Air Blast knocks ’em off.

Flame Blast plus Detonate? In the middle of a large group? The Sweet Spot, as someone mentioned above? Magic!

Napalm is a good Fire Field for Might Stacking, and if you are running Pistol/Shield, you can use Magnetic Inversion to give yourself four stacks of Might.

Also, Smoke Vent is effective when you wanna pull a finishing move on a downed player

I don’t know if it’s intented or not, but the new fireblast hit like a truck if you don’t detonate it.

I’m going on my full berserk gear, take my rifle and flamethrower and I get some crazy number.

The fireblast can sometime hit 3 time on the same target. I didn’t test much, I had too much fun using it.

You need the timing and the distance. Just net someone, and switch to FT then fire blast.

I AoE hit guys for around 10k++ if it triple hit. I one shotted an elementalist during a fight.

It’s a very hard hiting ability.

Sadly, it’s only a gimmick build. It’s good for support damage, but if you get focused, you’ll have a hard time with FT.

I duled some good mesmer with it, and since FT don’t have much range option, and is bad at moving target, it was not viable.

I only use FT when I’m in a group.

The strength lies in the knockback, and the once in a while burst from Flameblast. Flamejet is good in wvw as it hits through walls and such, nailing those ram users for examples.

Napalm is dreadful. Long cooldown, virtually no damage, for a fire combofield. Seriously? Thats just kitten poor.
Smoke Vent has only 1 strengtht, it works even when CCd. But its melee range, and has a long cooldown for what is otherwise a pretty basic effect.

And dont use Flamejet against enemies using Retaliation, youll only hurt yourself more then them as you enjoy retaliation with. every. single. pulse. This can drain your health VERY fast as you can ramp upto 3k dmg per enemy with retaliation. Half your health gone in 2 seconds, and you did it all to yourself.

I have actually been using it a lot lately. Incendiary Ammo is pretty good the knockback is great the blind that can be used when stun is useful and the basic attack is better then people give it credit for. Especially against thieves who try to disappear on me.

It’s strength lies in the easy and comfortable tagging of multiple mobs/players in wvw. You won’t help that much in actually killing them, but it is probably the “strongest” weapon for aoe farming events. You could even top it off with some mf gear, which seems like a perfect match for it.

/sarcasm.

From a pvp perspective its very subpar. OStrich posted a build on a thread a i made about tpvp builds. If your building flamethrower for spvp you probably are going to be some sort of homepoint defender.

If you’re running a support build with Elixir Gun, it shares a lot of traits with Flamethrower. Granted, there aren’t many reasons to run a support build, but if you do, FT and EG have a lot of synergy when used together.

It’s ok for pve along with rifle. Double blast bug from flame blast is actually pretty good and seems to strike 5+ targets (aoe cap). With +15% dmg trait it is decent when mixed with rifle (for net shot, overcharged shot, blunderbuss up close) to secure flameblast dmg.

Air Blast is pretty good with mild cc and projectile reflect.

In PvP it needs still a little help imo. It’s just not that useful.

Imo shorter Flame Jet channel and bit buffed #5 would put it in great place.

EDIT: and also they need to fix bug with Flame Blast never exploding when hitting solid obstacles, like ground, walls etc. This is really game breaking.

In Hot Joins you can often troll entire groups @Keep point with aimed Flame Blasts every 4,5s or so

Terrahero.9358:

Napalm is dreadful. Long cooldown, virtually no damage, for a fire combofield. Seriously? Thats just kitten poor.
Smoke Vent has only 1 strengtht, it works even when CCd. But its melee range, and has a long cooldown for what is otherwise a pretty basic effect.

Napalm is actually decent. It lasts 10 sec, people in organised play can easily blast it for AoE 3 stacks of might per blast and other useful combos (flame shield, burn etc).

When you also down someone you can put it under his kitten and ignore him for 10s + and be sure he won’t be healing himself unless he has downed movement skill ready.

Smoke Vent can also be used while stomping, start stomping that ranger or warrior and blind their daze/hammer.

Smoke Vent could use a minor buff imo, either radius or number of blinds.

Napalm is good, but i wouldn’t mind giving it BLIND it used to have in beta.

Killyox.3950:

Terrahero.9358:

Napalm is dreadful. Long cooldown, virtually no damage, for a fire combofield. Seriously? Thats just kitten poor.
Smoke Vent has only 1 strengtht, it works even when CCd. But its melee range, and has a long cooldown for what is otherwise a pretty basic effect.

Napalm is actually decent. It lasts 10 sec, people in organised play can easily blast it for AoE 3 stacks of might per blast and other useful combos (flame shield, burn etc).

When you also down someone you can put it under his kitten and ignore him for 10s + and be sure he won’t be healing himself unless he has downed movement skill ready.

Smoke Vent can also be used while stomping, start stomping that ranger or warrior and blind their daze/hammer.

Smoke Vent could use a minor buff imo, either radius or number of blinds.

Napalm is good, but i wouldn’t mind giving it BLIND it used to have in beta.

We’re talking a pretty massive 30sec cd for just a 10sec, line shaped, combofield. That is just very weak.
There are way better combofields fire that are on either shorter cooldowns, deal much more damage or have much better utility. Or a combination of those 3. I’d go as far as to wager it is one of the worst skills that also does a fire combofield.

Its burn needs to last longer, and it should apply a cripple. Now its actually something people might not want to casually walk through.

Light.6095:

If you’re running a support build with Elixir Gun, it shares a lot of traits with Flamethrower. Granted, there aren’t many reasons to run a support build, but if you do, FT and EG have a lot of synergy when used together.

If everything works out, this will be getting more attractive in seven days.

Pannonica.5378:

Light.6095:

If you’re running a support build with Elixir Gun, it shares a lot of traits with Flamethrower. Granted, there aren’t many reasons to run a support build, but if you do, FT and EG have a lot of synergy when used together.

If everything works out, this will be getting more attractive in seven days.

You are killing me.

Killyox.3950:

Terrahero.9358:

Napalm is dreadful. Long cooldown, virtually no damage, for a fire combofield. Seriously? Thats just kitten poor.
Smoke Vent has only 1 strengtht, it works even when CCd. But its melee range, and has a long cooldown for what is otherwise a pretty basic effect.

Napalm is actually decent. It lasts 10 sec, people in organised play can easily blast it for AoE 3 stacks of might per blast and other useful combos (flame shield, burn etc).

When you also down someone you can put it under his kitten and ignore him for 10s + and be sure he won’t be healing himself unless he has downed movement skill ready.

Smoke Vent can also be used while stomping, start stomping that ranger or warrior and blind their daze/hammer.

Smoke Vent could use a minor buff imo, either radius or number of blinds.

Napalm is good, but i wouldn’t mind giving it BLIND it used to have in beta.

Interesting I don’t recall the Blind on Napalms field, How did that function in pvp? Any interesting specifics?

Don’t glass cannon a FT build. Get a good dose of precision, toughness, and some vitality; and slot at least 2 survival traits such as Protection Shield, Protection Injection, Self-Regulating Defenses (if you must), Stabilized Armor, whatever.

FT is about standing (mostly) still and calmly surviving the battle until you win.

What you’ll notice is that FT build damage ramps up over time. The first 1/3 of your enemy’s life bar will take an agonizingly long time to decrease… but the last 1/3 will drop almost instantly. Engi FT engagements are not a burst damage race, they will properly take a longer period of time, and over time you can outlast most other classes as long as they didn’t take you by surprise.

In sPvP/WvW, enemies instinctively try to burst you down immediately… which is a mistake, because that is right when your protective cooldowns will be most effective. You’ll notice their damage spikes at the start—I’m glaring at you, facerolling thieves of the world—and then they scuttle around waiting for their Big Awesome Skill to come off cooldown. Meanwhile your damage remains constant, and once their protective CDs wear off their health drops faster than you’d imagine. Plus you can continually hit them everywhere with just about any decent FT build, you can shove them around or immobilize at will, you can hold off on heals until the last second, or you can out-distance them as you run away (if you included that option in your build).

Glass cannon FT vs glass cannon everything else loses. 1/2 bunker FT vs glass cannon everything else is a longer, winnable battle.

Jorgamund.7803:

Don’t glass cannon a FT build. Get a good dose of precision, toughness, and some vitality; and slot at least 2 survival traits such as Protection Shield, Protection Injection, Self-Regulating Defenses (if you must), Stabilized Armor, whatever.

FT is about standing (mostly) still and calmly surviving the battle until you win.

What you’ll notice is that FT build damage ramps up over time. The first 1/3 of your enemy’s life bar will take an agonizingly long time to decrease… but the last 1/3 will drop almost instantly. Engi FT engagements are not a burst damage race, they will properly take a longer period of time, and over time you can outlast most other classes as long as they didn’t take you by surprise.

In sPvP/WvW, enemies instinctively try to burst you down immediately… which is a mistake, because that is right when your protective cooldowns will be most effective. You’ll notice their damage spikes at the start—I’m glaring at you, facerolling thieves of the world—and then they scuttle around waiting for their Big Awesome Skill to come off cooldown. Meanwhile your damage remains constant, and once their protective CDs wear off their health drops faster than you’d imagine. Plus you can continually hit them everywhere with just about any decent FT build, you can shove them around or immobilize at will, you can hold off on heals until the last second, or you can out-distance them as you run away (if you included that option in your build).

Glass cannon FT vs glass cannon everything else loses. 1/2 bunker FT vs glass cannon everything else is a longer, winnable battle.

Wrong, glass cannon FT works incredibly well. 11k Damage on FT 2 EVERY 6 seconds? Yes please.

waka.9826:

Wrong, glass cannon FT works incredibly well. 11k Damage on FT 2 EVERY 6 seconds? Yes please.

Except that 11k dmg is exploiting a bug.

Lord Aargadon.4135:

waka.9826:

Wrong, glass cannon FT works incredibly well. 11k Damage on FT 2 EVERY 6 seconds? Yes please.

Except that 11k dmg is exploiting a bug.

Yeah kind of like how nightmare runes on condi nades is exploiting a bug too right.

The double explosion when not detonating is a bug. Please do be mature about this…

Lord Aargadon.4135:

The double explosion when not detonating is a bug. Please do be mature about this…

Yes and the extra condi duration on nightmare runes is a bug too. The build is good until ANET decides to fix it.

And looking at ANET’s history of fixing bugs I doubt it will be addressed any time soon.

Meet me in the mists for a little 1on1 action.. I’ll show you how bad the flamethrower ‘sucks’

‘Thomyork’ on Kaineng.

Lord Aargadon.4135:

The double explosion when not detonating is a bug. Please do be mature about this…

It is exploiting a bug, but I don’t see the problem with going Zerker with the Flamethrower. It scales great with Power, and with Juggernaut’s passive +200 Toughness and +Vitality from Alchemy you’re already pretty durable.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Lord Aargadon.4135:

The double explosion when not detonating is a bug. Please do be mature about this…

It is exploiting a bug, but I don’t see the problem with going Zerker with the Flamethrower. It scales great with Power, and with Juggernaut’s passive +200 Toughness and +Vitality from Alchemy you’re already pretty durable.

He was saying dont glass cannon in pvp. All his examples were pvp rated, in which you will lose to any other glass cannon build.

Zinwrath.2049:

He was saying dont glass cannon in pvp..

And again: why not? You already have +200 Toughness from Juggernaut. I don’t usually use my Flamethrower in sPvP but when I do I use the Rampager trinket with it.

Im not saying anything is wrong but the exploiting, if you want to go GC then by all means go ahead. But the exploiting… its a little silly and frankly I see it as another one of the reasons pvp is pretty much dead in this game, everyone just flocks to the easiest build to play effectively, I dont give a crap how it deals double damage, just like how nades sometimes detonate twice or three times each underwater, Ill just play it fair and avoid whats broken.

But anyways, lets get this thread back on track and drop the exploit talk.

Pannonica.5378:

Light.6095:

If you’re running a support build with Elixir Gun, it shares a lot of traits with Flamethrower. Granted, there aren’t many reasons to run a support build, but if you do, FT and EG have a lot of synergy when used together.

If everything works out, this will be getting more attractive in seven days.

Hmm have you heard something i have not? all i heard about was turret buffs.

Lord Aargadon.4135:

The double explosion when not detonating is a bug. Please do be mature about this…

How is it a bug?

The first ‘hit’ is the projectile itself. The second hit is the explosion detonating.

1st hit —-—— 2nd hit
—————> >*<

Azure Prower.8701:

Lord Aargadon.4135:

The double explosion when not detonating is a bug. Please do be mature about this…

How is it a bug?

The first ‘hit’ is the projectile itself. The second hit is the explosion detonating.

1st hit —-—— 2nd hit
—————> >*<

The detonation hits twice.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Zinwrath.2049:

He was saying dont glass cannon in pvp..

And again: why not? You already have +200 Toughness from Juggernaut. I don’t usually use my Flamethrower in sPvP but when I do I use the Rampager trinket with it.

its simply theif/warrior/mes can do what you have to channel an entire attack to do instantly, then instantly 3-4 more times (sometimes they hit 2-3x as hard as your 2 1/2 second channel that is countered by retaliation). Even a rifle eng if he were to go full burst, would chain cc you while doing higher amounts of burst. (especially if hes Static discharge build) dont even get me started if he has 100 nades.

And mesm/theif/war can disengage easily. (well maybe not warriors depending on build).

Even burst gaurdian is gonna put your damage to shame, while condition wiping and since they basicly have perma retaliation no matter how you build them will just end up killing you off your own attacks.

If you find it fun its one thing, but that 200 toughness doesnt make up for lack of disengage or the fact our burst is half of other professions that build for burst.

Zinwrath.2049:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Zinwrath.2049:

He was saying dont glass cannon in pvp..

And again: why not? You already have +200 Toughness from Juggernaut. I don’t usually use my Flamethrower in sPvP but when I do I use the Rampager trinket with it.

its simply theif/warrior/mes can do what you have to channel an entire attack to do instantly, then instantly 3-4 more times (sometimes they hit 2-3x as hard as your 2 1/2 second channel that is countered by retaliation). Even a rifle eng if he were to go full burst, would chain cc you while doing higher amounts of burst. (especially if hes Static discharge build) dont even get me started if he has 100 nades.

And mesm/theif/war can disengage easily. (well maybe not warriors depending on build).

Even burst gaurdian is gonna put your damage to shame, while condition wiping and since they basicly have perma retaliation no matter how you build them will just end up killing you off your own attacks.

If you find it fun its one thing, but that 200 toughness doesnt make up for lack of disengage or the fact our burst is half of other professions that build for burst.

The FT build I run far surpasses static discharge and is better than 100 nades overall imo.

Oh and who spams 1 on FT?

Azure Prower.8701:

Lord Aargadon.4135:

The double explosion when not detonating is a bug. Please do be mature about this…

How is it a bug?

The first ‘hit’ is the projectile itself. The second hit is the explosion detonating.

1st hit —-—— 2nd hit
—————> >*<

it can hit, detonate…detonate. Its most likely due to the fact when they put in the ability to detonate early its being considered a seperate skill (since you have to click it). whats happening is the trigger that made the old explosion go off at the end, still goes off at the end…but the code for the new ability to go off at the end if you dont detonate it….is going off too. Someone clearly forgot to disable the old explosion.

waka.9826:

Zinwrath.2049:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Zinwrath.2049:

He was saying dont glass cannon in pvp..

And again: why not? You already have +200 Toughness from Juggernaut. I don’t usually use my Flamethrower in sPvP but when I do I use the Rampager trinket with it.

its simply theif/warrior/mes can do what you have to channel an entire attack to do instantly, then instantly 3-4 more times (sometimes they hit 2-3x as hard as your 2 1/2 second channel that is countered by retaliation). Even a rifle eng if he were to go full burst, would chain cc you while doing higher amounts of burst. (especially if hes Static discharge build) dont even get me started if he has 100 nades.

And mesm/theif/war can disengage easily. (well maybe not warriors depending on build).

Even burst gaurdian is gonna put your damage to shame, while condition wiping and since they basicly have perma retaliation no matter how you build them will just end up killing you off your own attacks.

If you find it fun its one thing, but that 200 toughness doesnt make up for lack of disengage or the fact our burst is half of other professions that build for burst.

The FT build I run far surpasses static discharge and is better than 100 nades overall imo.

Oh and who spams 1 on FT?

You go glass cannon?

Zinwrath.2049:

waka.9826:

Zinwrath.2049:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Zinwrath.2049:

He was saying dont glass cannon in pvp..

And again: why not? You already have +200 Toughness from Juggernaut. I don’t usually use my Flamethrower in sPvP but when I do I use the Rampager trinket with it.

its simply theif/warrior/mes can do what you have to channel an entire attack to do instantly, then instantly 3-4 more times (sometimes they hit 2-3x as hard as your 2 1/2 second channel that is countered by retaliation). Even a rifle eng if he were to go full burst, would chain cc you while doing higher amounts of burst. (especially if hes Static discharge build) dont even get me started if he has 100 nades.

And mesm/theif/war can disengage easily. (well maybe not warriors depending on build).

Even burst gaurdian is gonna put your damage to shame, while condition wiping and since they basicly have perma retaliation no matter how you build them will just end up killing you off your own attacks.

If you find it fun its one thing, but that 200 toughness doesnt make up for lack of disengage or the fact our burst is half of other professions that build for burst.

The FT build I run far surpasses static discharge and is better than 100 nades overall imo.

Oh and who spams 1 on FT?

You go glass cannon?

Yes. Zerker and still has pretty good survivability and has some incredible sustain.

Zinwrath.2049:

If you find it fun its one thing, but that 200 toughness doesnt make up for lack of disengage or the fact our burst is half of other professions that build for burst.

“Fun” wasn’t factored into anything I’ve written here.

I never said the Flamethrower is a burst weapon, either. If anyone was “built for burst” they probably should look elsewhere (i.e., Static Discharge with the Rifle).

I just don’t see how anything you wrote here counters anything I said; you’ve simply argued that a Thief does more damage. So what? The Flamethrower (and Elixir Gun) offers enough control + survivability options passively in the way they’re constructed. Going with a Soldier trinket in sPvP is total overkill—using a Zerker/Rampager trinket works perfectly fine.

Zinwrath.2049:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Zinwrath.2049:

He was saying dont glass cannon in pvp..

And again: why not? You already have +200 Toughness from Juggernaut. I don’t usually use my Flamethrower in sPvP but when I do I use the Rampager trinket with it.

its simply theif/warrior/mes can do what you have to channel an entire attack to do instantly, then instantly 3-4 more times (sometimes they hit 2-3x as hard as your 2 1/2 second channel that is countered by retaliation). Even a rifle eng if he were to go full burst, would chain cc you while doing higher amounts of burst. (especially if hes Static discharge build) dont even get me started if he has 100 nades.

And mesm/theif/war can disengage easily. (well maybe not warriors depending on build).

Even burst gaurdian is gonna put your damage to shame, while condition wiping and since they basicly have perma retaliation no matter how you build them will just end up killing you off your own attacks.

If you find it fun its one thing, but that 200 toughness doesnt make up for lack of disengage or the fact our burst is half of other professions that build for burst.

I think this is a real case of L2P, because:
1) Why would I spam 1 with flamethrower when a Guardian has retaliation up
2) Why would I spam 1 in the first place
3) Flamethrower builds have a lot of CC, condi removal, sustain and spike damage

Phineas Poe.3018:

Zinwrath.2049:

If you find it fun its one thing, but that 200 toughness doesnt make up for lack of disengage or the fact our burst is half of other professions that build for burst.

“Fun” wasn’t factored into anything I’ve written here.

I never said the Flamethrower is a burst weapon, either. If anyone was “built for burst” they probably should look elsewhere (i.e., Static Discharge with the Rifle).

I just don’t see how anything you wrote here counters anything I said; you’ve simply argued that a Thief does more damage. So what? The Flamethrower (and Elixir Gun) offers enough control + survivability options passively in the way they’re constructed. Going with a Soldier trinket in sPvP is total overkill—using a Zerker/Rampager trinket works perfectly fine.

I’ve fought it several times, as multiple professions. They dont have the control survivability you claim they do. Every EG/FT engineer i’ve ever encountered (that wasnt doing some weird full defence bunker build) is just a free kill waiting to happen…infact i usually single them out in a team fight because i KNOW they cant escape. The airblast is easily avoided EVEN without stability/blind, the cripple is too slow a projectile, and EG’s mini teleport….depending on the champ im playing i just teleport along with them. Difference is any of the profession i mentioned can do 6-10k with a single skill, and usually have about 4 others that do around 3-4k on their bar.

I mean feel free to friend me in game, and try it out on me if you think your better than the engi’s i fought, but from my personal experience…..they kill too slowly and global taunt everyone to just turn and burst them.

Zinwrath.2049:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Zinwrath.2049:

If you find it fun its one thing, but that 200 toughness doesnt make up for lack of disengage or the fact our burst is half of other professions that build for burst.

“Fun” wasn’t factored into anything I’ve written here.

I never said the Flamethrower is a burst weapon, either. If anyone was “built for burst” they probably should look elsewhere (i.e., Static Discharge with the Rifle).

I just don’t see how anything you wrote here counters anything I said; you’ve simply argued that a Thief does more damage. So what? The Flamethrower (and Elixir Gun) offers enough control + survivability options passively in the way they’re constructed. Going with a Soldier trinket in sPvP is total overkill—using a Zerker/Rampager trinket works perfectly fine.

I’ve fought it several times, as multiple professions. They dont have the control survivability you claim they do. Every EG/FT engineer i’ve ever encountered (that wasnt doing some weird full defence bunker build) is just a free kill waiting to happen…infact i usually single them out in a team fight because i KNOW they cant escape. The airblast is easily avoided EVEN without stability/blind, the cripple is too slow a projectile, and EG’s mini teleport….depending on the champ im playing i just teleport along with them. Difference is any of the profession i mentioned can do 6-10k with a single skill, and usually have about 4 others that do around 3-4k on their bar.

I mean feel free to friend me in game, and try it out on me if you think your better than the engi’s i fought, but from my personal experience…..they kill too slowly and global taunt everyone to just turn and burst them.

I’d like to fight you.

I"m on now on my necro sinwraith. hit me up just got done dueling punkins i’m ready to fight some more FT engies.

EDIT: well that was fun. But when i switched to engineer, im pretty sure the build i was using dwarfs all other play styles. Just remember to always attack first while the enemy is typing and stay away from rocks and its golden.

Zinwrath.2049:

They dont have the control survivability you claim they do. Every EG/FT engineer i’ve ever encountered (that wasnt doing some weird full defence bunker build) is just a free kill waiting to happen

I’m sure they were, given that (1) most Engineers in sPvP are terrible and (2) it’s not the best spec for sPvP. There’s a reason I wrote my guide in the PvE folder of Guru, and I already said I “don’t usually use” the FT/EG build in sPvP given that there are way better options for us. That said, it’s a nice change of pace every once in a while and, in my experience, wearing a Rampager/Zerker trinket works perfectly fine. It’s fine.

I didn’t say it makes you like the coolest kid ever.

I don’t understand why you’re crucifying me for this, or challenging me like an internet TryHard.

The worst part is, you’re arguing about the mechanics that the FT/EG runs around, which work the same regardless of what trinket you’re using. If Flame Jet slaps like a wet fish wearing a Rampager trinket, then it’ll be all the more worse in Soldier gear—with hardly much a boost in survivability against a Condition-based class like Necromancer.

Zinwrath.2049:

I"m on now on my necro sinwraith. hit me up just got done dueling punkins i’m ready to fight some more FT engies.

EDIT: well that was fun. But when i switched to engineer, im pretty sure the build i was using dwarfs all other play styles. Just remember to always attack first while the enemy is typing and stay away from rocks and its golden.

That 100nets build is infuriating

Good times.