Guild Wars 2

We’ve gotten pretty much nothing but buffs and a single, probably overdue, nerf. We even got a fairly big (for turret engineers) bugfix that they didn’t list. I’m not unhappy with this.

I just wish every listed change wasn’t something to do with Kits, except for Elixir U. Other skillsets need work, too.

Have they fixed Scope yet? Or at least added a tooltip saying: you engi’s hipfire, you don’t need scopes.

While everyone keeps crying, I’d like to note that the flamethrower seems to have no problems hitting structures. At least, this is the case with the Fort Marriner practice dummies and Volatile Blossoms in TA

I´ve done some testing now and it definitely is not a nerf. There are more fixes than anyhthing.
Deployable turrets working, 100 nades is still viable because toolkit doesnt trigger the internal cooldown (only grenade kit, elixier gun and flamethrower do), less traveltime for netshot, flame blast and elixier F.
But I think it´s not intended that elixier gun and grenade kit still have their old cooldowns.

wvwvw perspective:
Elixir gun changes seems nice, the blast finisher and the additional healing is all nice.
The kit ref cd does not seem as annoying as when I first read the notes but I still do not have it perfectly pinned down to what it actually does, anyone knows? bugged?
Prybar is just stupid. Unless they plan to tone down confusion in wvwvw this will make it op.

You know, I was wondering how to set up my traits for my Engineer as I continue to level, but now I think I’m on the right path given the update. SWEET STARS ABOVE, I’m so happy that my Engineer can be Trickster Dante and now has the weight to really sway a battle.

I still wish that Rocket Boots didn’t CC the player on use and also that he Rifle’s Jump Shot had a slightly bigger radius and better response for the landing (the player seems to lag in the air for about 1/2 of a second before the stomp that gives everything a free opportunity to hit you since you can’t dodge roll). Those issues are pretty much forcing me to use Jump Shot only as an escape skill since jumping into someone could either miss them (the 120 range radius is like 2 steps at battle speed in any direction) or could easily lead to them simply taking the hit and then ruining me as I’m locked in the landing animation.

Also, the Rocket Kick should really have a 450-600 range.

There are just so many more issues right now, but honestly, this update was a pretty alright start.

I just wish that elixir gun could be swapped into heal spot. with this new buff and kit refinement, it seems it might better in many ways to Heal Kit. I could swap in Toolkit where EG used to be, then PRYBAR FACE.

That’d be sweet.

Ok so this patch isn’t what many of us actually asked for. Desperately needed trait fixes, for example, but it’s getting there.

Kardiamond.6952:

@The Gate Assassin

A bit OP? Did anyone cry about engineer switching kits to cast spells?

Sure you can do it by jumping now, but how freaking annoying it was already.

Now Multi-kit build, which weren’t even strong, are nerfed to the ground.

What does that mean?

Take a kit, stay in it, and do average damage.

@TGA you might don’t care because you didn’t use it, but it’s not the case for everyone.

Jumping swapping is prolly a bug, who say it will stay?

Like each patch, they buff an aspect of engineer, just to nerf another one.

I shouldn’t post right now, I’m not happy lol.

My main build is the 100nades engineer. I have noticed literally no difference in the way I play it. I run it with Tool kit, grenade kit and an optional (Elixir S or Elixir Gun). Just hit space before using a kit. It’s not hard. I really doubt that it’s a bug. If they change that, then complain that they destroyed the build. Otherwise, this is totally unfounded.

You’re overreacting because you’re mad.

Scope is still bugged from my testing. Q_Q

I am so exictited for this patch.( I am leaving work early to play. hehe) I am not sure how anyone else plays there engi, but this is right up my alley. Thank you Anet, meet me in WvW and i will now show you a OP Engineer

From what I tested:

1st- super elixir doesn’t scale anywhere close to 100% healing power
2nd- due to kit refinement nerf you can’t couple elixir-gun with flamethrower so… tell me please… how are you going to do any damage at all with the elixir gun alone (no burning)? And what trait am I supposed to pick now that my choice has been cut like this?

I guess engis can’t spec into condition damage now.

Heh heh look at everyone having a hissy.

I had to read the FT patch a few times to make sure I was understanding it correctly because to me it looks like the made a change to the kit that came directly out of player feedback. Sure it took some time but I think one of the first 5 suggestions for the Engineer ever was to make Flame Blast able to detonate in the air. AND knocking ppl back extends your burning now, Conditon Damage HURRAY.
How awesome.

Super Elixir is back to its orginal sweetness.
How awesome.

Elixir U is fixed to 5 secs so now you can combo it with Elixir S and have quickness the entire time you are tiny and even a second after.
Pretty awesome.

Prybar is better for confusion although I still think it needs to hit multiple targets like Warrior weapons.
Not as awesome.

Kit Refinement, hmmm the one everyone is kitten about. Yes the whole Pull-standontopof-Barrage Barrage burst needs a little more thought now but to me I see this as a possible preparation for a kit buff.
They seem to be slowly trying to improve and change our kits and how they exactly function. They aren’t changing any core Engineer mechanics it just so happens that some of the changes have messed with the unconventional builds ppl have come up with.
So no this was not an awesome change and I could very well be wrong about anything counterbalancing this in the future but even still the KR nerf isn’t that bad in my eyes.

I am most dissapointed that there was again no reworking or balancing of our main weapons especially the pistols.
maybe next time

I’m glad they’ve fixed Deployable Turrets (‘bout kitten time), but turrets haven’t been improved at all aside from all being throwable.

On a similar note, the buff to repairing of turrets is great…but only if the kitten things survive long enough to be repaired. Was in Southsun to test the changes, and they got obliterated before I could repair them, most of the time, by a Young Karka’s opening volley. They also need AI changes (the only one I got to repair, oddly enough, spent most of the fight aiming to the side, attacking thin air), cooldown changes, the ability to scale with Power…

Not pleased with almost every single change being a rebalance of Kits, either. Elixir U being consistent and Deployable Turrets finally working are the only two things that weren’t Kit-related. We do have other skills, guys. Other weapons. Other aspects of the class aside from “what weird kitten backpack do I want this instant?”

But, overall, I’m not unhappy with the patch. It had something that turret engineers have been waiting on for six kittening months now, and they didn’t even have it in the patch notes. Still not happy, but it’s pretty nice that they’ve done that much.

waka.9826:

Engineer
Kit Refinement: This trait now has an internal cooldown of 10 seconds globally for Flamethrower, Elixir Gun, Grenade Kit, and Tool Kit.

kit refinement internal cooldown globally is pretty hard nerf..

IMO everything is a junk buff and they gave us a huge nerf on kit refinement

WHAT THE PHO!!!!

10 secs…. is just so dumb.

So they nerfed us to the floor with previous patches, and then we finally made builds like the 100 nades, i ended up using 4-kits to be more viable, i then finally make a build that was great called the “sickman” syndrome. And now a week later, they put kit refinement global cooldown on elixIr gun, flamethrower and grenade kits……..

THATS ALL THE KITS I FREAKIN USE IN MY BUILD, FREAKING ANET WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU PUT A GLOBAL COOLDOWN ON TOP OF ANOTHER COOLDOWN.

I seriously don’t understand the idea behind it, wasn’t they wanting to push the increase in diversity of builds in the last patch?! now 4 kit builds are now hardly viable. Seriously what was op about kit refinement? Are they going to compensate us for all the gold and effort it took to come up with those builds and to make it?

The trait is currently broken….. you can still use tool and grande without internal cool down! the real effect will be up in 1h with the new patch

Anymras.5729:

We’ve gotten pretty much nothing but buffs and a single, probably overdue, nerf. We even got a fairly big (for turret engineers) bugfix that they didn’t list. I’m not unhappy with this.

I just wish every listed change wasn’t something to do with Kits, except for Elixir U. Other skillsets need work, too.

Do people even use turrets? Because even with the fix, turrets seem… well, bad.

Vuh.1328:

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND kit refinement skills still have their normal CD + internal one
fantastic..

Yeah, what the hell. Say, I wanted to have the grenade kit to do damage, and the elixer gun to support – cause you know…..versitility and all…..NOPE.

We have a damage tax already on those kits so we can do cool kitten, guess that wasn’t enough.

Arimahn.3568:

Anymras.5729:

We’ve gotten pretty much nothing but buffs and a single, probably overdue, nerf. We even got a fairly big (for turret engineers) bugfix that they didn’t list. I’m not unhappy with this.

I just wish every listed change wasn’t something to do with Kits, except for Elixir U. Other skillsets need work, too.

Do people even use turrets? Because even with the fix, turrets seem… well, bad.

They aren’t that great, but yes, some use them. Me for one. I run a full-on turret build, usually with all 3 utilities as turrets (though occassionally switching 1 kit or Throw Mine).

The fact that they’re unused is exactly the reason they need to be improved. They need to be improved to the point where people feel its worthwhile to use them beyond novelty.

Arimahn.3568:

Anymras.5729:

We’ve gotten pretty much nothing but buffs and a single, probably overdue, nerf. We even got a fairly big (for turret engineers) bugfix that they didn’t list. I’m not unhappy with this.

I just wish every listed change wasn’t something to do with Kits, except for Elixir U. Other skillsets need work, too.

Do people even use turrets? Because even with the fix, turrets seem… well, bad.

I do. They’re not very good, but they’re what I like the best of the Engineer’s skills – no RNG like Elixirs give, not used by everybody and their mother like Kits, not something something Gadgets (I just don’t particularly like Gadgets, though I can’t put my finger on why). They don’t deal very good damage, they don’t survive for long, they’ve got long cooldowns and no mobility to speak of…but they’re what I like, and I’m stubborn enough to make them work, even if I have to use them as landmines.

So disappointed. A few small improvements to a couple of kits doesn’t seem to actually fix what is basically a broken class. Love my engineer but just about out of hope for the class being worth a kitten in pvp.

And people thought I was trolling with my “The Engineer class is the developer’s punchline” topic.

Stow med kit – NO. Thanks for quadrupling the number of times I have to push a button.

Adding an internal cooldown is a ridiculous way of toning down Kit Refinement.

This is a 10 second invisible cooldown IN ADDITION to the base invisible cooldowns on each kit effect that was have to keep track of. If you want to nerf the trait, tone down the effects, not making it clunky and unreliable.

Also, thank you for FINALLY adding a detonate to Flame Blast. Its something I’ve suggested and been asking for since the beta, and I’m glad to finally see it in.

Please consider giving damaging Turrets some form of scaling next so they stop being completely useless.

hmm now that I have got into the game and tested it I am kinda scared.

The nerf doesn’t even work right. FT and EG are the only KR effects that trigger the ICD. So you can still TK Pull + Barrage/Barrage and really use and KR effect one after another as long as you use EG or FT last.

Adding an ICD to a single trait effect doesn’t seem like too complicated a task and yet they have completely botched it.

I am kinda worried that at the last minute some Thief playing Dev crybaby tried to rush in a nerf to stop from getting his face moneyshot on by my nade explosion.

irakai.6891:

Please consider giving damaging Turrets some form of scaling next so they stop being completely useless.

Technicality: Condition and Boon turrets scale. Direct-damage turrets, though, are the ones that don’t. Seriously hoping they add more scaling.

Electro.4173:

The fact that they’re unused is exactly the reason they need to be improved. They need to be improved to the point where people feel its worthwhile to use them beyond novelty.

That’s what I was getting at. Fixing a trait that’s been broken since forever isn’t really an “improvement”, it’s a necessity. Turrets aren’t underused because of that one trait but because their overall design is bad. So, personally, I wouldn’t count the bugfix as a positive thing here.

Arimahn.3568:

Electro.4173:

The fact that they’re unused is exactly the reason they need to be improved. They need to be improved to the point where people feel its worthwhile to use them beyond novelty.

That’s what I was getting at. Fixing a trait that’s been broken since forever isn’t really an “improvement”, it’s a necessity. Turrets aren’t underused because of that one trait but because their overall design is bad. So, personally, I wouldn’t count the bugfix as a positive thing here.

I’d consider the bugfix a positive thing, if only because it a) didn’t come with an accompanying nerf and b) it makes PvE turrets just that little bit easier to work with. They still need a lot of work, but it at least seems to show that there’s been a bit of attention thrown their way.

Anymras.5729:

I’d consider the bugfix a positive thing, if only because it a) didn’t come with an accompanying nerf

Tou-effin-ché

I agree that the 10 second GCD of Kit Refinement is a step backwards. That should never have been implemented, and plenty of people have given the reasons for it. I won’t beat a dead horse, so this is won’t be explained.

I do like that they’ve increased FT abilities. It’s good to see that they’re adding much needed synergies to this kit’s abilities. You can now at least have a reason for using Air Blast after setting someone on fire with FJ and then following up with Flame Blast.

Now let’s see if they have fixed the obstruction problem with Flame Blast.

popping 4x KR procs nearly instantly was a broken aspect of the trait. if you seriously and genuinely felt that it was working as intended then you were deluding yourself.

you don’t have to like it, but KR is now functioning properly. No more button mashing, now you have to plan, judge, and time your combos differently and not rely on a great big button in the sky to do the work for you.

I’m very happy with his patch, so many bug fixes and plenty of buffs for flamethrower, elixir and even one more for the already awesome toolkit.
I’m sorry for everyone who felt kit refinement hit their build, but can’t say I’m sad about it since I never played 100nades. Overall it was an awesome patch for me

CriSPeH.8512:

hmm now that I have got into the game and tested it I am kinda scared.

The nerf doesn’t even work right. FT and EG are the only KR effects that trigger the ICD. So you can still TK Pull + Barrage/Barrage and really use and KR effect one after another as long as you use EG or FT last.

Adding an ICD to a single trait effect doesn’t seem like too complicated a task and yet they have completely botched it.

I am kinda worried that at the last minute some Thief playing Dev crybaby tried to rush in a nerf to stop from getting his face moneyshot on by my nade explosion.

What I’ve learned about Kit Refinement (KR) so far:
1. Med kit and tool kit are completely unaffected by the change. Med kit is instant, tool kit is every 10 seconds regardless of what you’re doing with the other kits.

2. FT KR has a 10 second cooldown, which it shares with other KR. Meaning, if you use the FT KR, it will be 10 seconds before you can use ANY other KR (including med kit and Tool Kit)

3. If you use grenade KR, it will be 20 seconds before you can grenade KR again.

4. If you use grenade KR, you can immediately do a bomb, FT, or EG, Tool Kit, or Med Kit.

5. Elixir Gun’s KR has a 20 second cooldown, which it shares with other KR. Meaning, if you use the EG KR, it will be 20 seconds before you can use ANY other KR.

Clearly, the patch notes have nothing to do with what’s going on with the trait now, because there’s so many exceptions, that the exceptions are the rule.

^Wow so yeah this patch is just all f#$%@d up.

Only FT and EG proc the ICD.
You still can’t switch out of kits in the air using the weapon swap key.
If you jump and switch to FT or EG while in the air it will trigger the ICD without giving the KR effect. So if they DO fix it so all labeled kits trigger the ICD then switching kits in the air will waste your trait

Rfreak.6591:

From what I tested:

1st- super elixir doesn’t scale anywhere close to 100% healing power

Read the notes.

“Super Elixir: Increased impact base healing as well as scaling with healing power by 100%. Increased base heal multiplier by 50% and healing power scaling by 100%.”

This means you get double the pre-change effect for your healing stats for Super Elixir, not a change to a flat 1:1 ratio of healing stat add to your Super Elixir.

You also get 1.5x the pre-change base heal .

Nothing said you would get 100% of your healing power added to Super Elixir.

I’m not really bothered by the nerf as much as nothing about our class has been fixed. Turrets still seem useless, buffs are to random, regular weapons do low damage and our supposedly great versatility is non existent yet we are gimped for it. They buffed some kits a little but flamethrower still seems unusable. I have played several other classes and none are so clunky or play so poorly. What the hell do I know though.

Think the buffs were all solid, the kit refinement sucks for a lot of people “as its become the flavor build to take advantage of and some people may argue its all that made us viable”.

but, it was something that definitly was working too well for that EXACT reason. And anet has a “nerf everything thats too good” attitude that they react to a lot faster than "fix everything thats bad’. So while we’re seeing small bandaids put on stuff that sucks, we’re always gonna see hammers brought down on stuff thats good.

so basicly this patch didnt surprise me in the least regarding engineers.

As a engi medic…

I approve.

My guild is going to love my white circles of magic wonder again

Ok, i have done some QQ’ing yesterday as it looked like the Kit Refinement nerf would remove all engineers from the game.

However, after some testing i noticed that the pry bar buff is strong.
I have never really used the EG in PvP, but it got buffed as well. The changes on FT2 were welcome.

Now i would still like to see 2 little changes. (1 of m is more like a bug fix i think)
1. Start the burning of Flamethrower at the start of the channel (dont add burning per tick, just make its duration like 1 or 2 seconds longer then the channel). This way we can actually combo the 10% damage bonus.
2. (bugfix) Rifle #5, nuff said

This patch - is huge nerf for engineers.
And I’m not talking about bug fixes - it can not be a BUFF - it’s just a FIX.

I played and loved this class since BWE1.
Now this class is broken as they took away our best build to clean conditions.
Everyone who doesnt agree that this is the nail in the coffin wasnt a good engineer before anyway . Actually every decent and competetiv build is centered about kit-refinement.

And lol no, 100nades isnt a good build, at least the version most people here played.
I dropped that build before the grenade nerfs because FT/E-Gun condition build was way way stronger.

Im very experienced with this class and was very successful in wvw/pvp could beat almost everyone out there but now….im horrible, my build is weak like hell without a reliable form of condition removement.

Kontrolle.3514:

I played and loved this class since BWE1.
Now this class is broken as they took away our best build to clean conditions.
Everyone who doesnt agree that this is the nail in the coffin wasnt a good engineer before anyway . Actually every decent and competetiv build is centered about kit-refinement.

And lol no, 100nades isnt a good build, at least the version most people here played.
I dropped that build before the grenade nerfs because FT/E-Gun condition build was way way stronger.

Im very experienced with this class and was very successful in wvw/pvp could beat almost everyone out there but now….im horrible, my build is weak like hell without a reliable form of condition removement.

Condition Removal did got nerfed quite a bit, we dont have any solid escapes, we are going to die real quick now :o.
For the people who are going to say 3 sec invuln too OP nerf engi. This will just delay our death by 3 sec. We have no teleports and our stealth is RNG.

A buff to flamethrower but still not worth the slot imo. Nerfs to food probably makes it a worthless slot to the few that were using it.

A buff to toolkit that is absolutely sex. I’m gonna pry faces off harder than ever before in WvW. The only downside to the increased healing to turrets on the wrench is that you have to use turrets which are still awful.

I never ran 3 or 4 kits, and I never thought for more than 5 seconds that the medkit refinement was ever good for anything other than an exceptionally loud spammable explosion to annoy people. I support the new cooldown for the kits refinement if it means we’re going to get buffs to skills that are routinely in general use for those kits. I don’t understand the lamethrower/elixir gun shared cooldown though. Flameblast is not as good as a free elixir S, and its going to be hurting me now to take the flamethrower with it for dungeon DPS.

The worst thing about this update is I cant complain about getting another huge nerf and force myself to just roll a warrior and get it over with.

I really didn’t have any ideas why they are nerfed us again... as in every patch...
There was always low number of Engineers, but they are nerfed us again and again, patch by patch...

What they want? Let they’ll just delete the Engineer class and all will be OK.

God, my Engi have 97% World completiton and I think it will never be done - just dont wanna do that...

Thank God I have a lot of another classes to play, but... but it suxx anyway... I’d hoped this patch will be a good for Engineers so much... "thank you" aNet...

I dont understand you guys, you all make the obvious buff feel like a nerf because of a single trait that was changed, sadly thats not only the case with engineers, but all over the classforums.

lordbachus.6091:

I dont understand you guys, you all make the obvious buff feel like a nerf because of a single trait that was changed, sadly thats not only the case with engineers, but all over the classforums.

it’s been like that since patch #1.

They didnt buffed us at all, but they are nerfed food = nerfed FT and Grenades.
Also, they are nerfed Scale Venom item = nerfed FT and Grenades.
And KR trait was pretty good. Not IMBA like most of Elems skills and traits - just good. Now - it’s suxx.

Isn’t it obvious?

What’s done is done I suppose. Just a cursory try of the FT and EG show them to be actually useful now in PVP, so I suppose its not all bad. The pull-pry combo for the TK is a definite plus with 5 seconds of confusion. Actually its not bad at all. Follow that up with a net shot-blunderbuss-OCS-jumpshot is a mean combo.

Actually surprised with the dmg from the FT. Really surprised. And without spec-ing into any FT enhancements.

Might even give turrets a try….ok maybe not but still…

The food nerf was expected, let’s be honest here. 2-3k healing per second was over the top.
The kit refinement nerf makes no sense in my opinion. Why do they even want us to be versatile at this rate?

Flamethrower buffs were nice. The flame blast change is a massive improvement and the channel got some much needed damage.

Not a great patch, not a terrible patch PvE wise. Can’t say too much about spvp.

Did the patch break “fireforged trigger”? It seems like the reduced CD is applied but then goes back to its default CD after a second or two. Noticed this happening repeatedly on the elixir guns #5.