Guild Wars 2

SO…. engis… not so bad anymore.

Or maybe the other classes have been nerfed down to our level …at least we aren’t necros.

Anyway….

How do you all go about fighting thieves in WvW? …and I’m not talking about pistols or swords, I mean the perm stealth ones that are capable of landing 7-10k crits on 3k armor.

..if you don’t think that’s possible, that’s fine, I’m not here to argue about that. On my server, a thief that lands a backstab for less than 5k gets laughed at in TS.

So yeah, I tend to use the bomb kit to chase them off me. With 18k health I have about a 50/50 chance of living long enough to dodge and switch to it; I consider that pretty good, since a few 2-3k bombs will make them run away… but I don’t wanna use the bomb kit.

Id rather use the flamethrower/elixirgun/pistols, but I can’t seem to live without some melee range goodness.. and that means bomb kit with the larger explosion trait.

Ahhhhh! It seems that every kit is designed to do one thing only, needs at least one, usually two traits to be useful, and creates traiting conflicts with other kits.

…so complicated.

Against most thieves, its not about having high vitality, its about having high toughness. Ever since I started carrying a little over 1900 toughness, thieves just cant kill me anymore alone. Do deal with stealth thieves I usually like to start by dropping box of nails then block against the inevitable burst attempt. If I get hit before I block its not really a problem sice my protection injection kicks in and I can heal back to full right after. Engies have plenty of traits that help them from getting burst so thats not a problem.
Afterward comes my offensive doing 2-4 on p/p before they stealth again. Run away for a second or two and land a glue shot behind you. Theres a good chance you might see a revealed thief by then and proceed to pummel with supply crate and what not.

Thats usually how my encounters go.

Engineers having problems with Thieves? At best you’d slaughter the said Thief, at worst, end up with a tie.

Anyways, if you speak of gadget/turret/kit engies being okay, they are amongst the most painful duelists in the universe in exchange of handling 1vMany rather poorly. So, breaking this down:

A perma-stealthed Thief is pretty much an idle one, you’d find all the time to recover when he’s trying to get that backstab.

I recommend turning around all the time, taking a frontstab is already a significant loss of damage output for the Thief. For the rest, Tool Kit (Box of Nails, Gear Shield, Magnet), Slick Shoes, Net Turret (A bonus if stacking Condition Duration), and every crippling/knocking/immobilizing move will help you survive and take the Thief down in the same time.

You could try the Flamethrower but you’d need to go Pistol/Shield to compensate. Still, it’s become slightly more reliable with the recent buff to Rocket Boots.

Penguin.5197:

Afterward comes my offensive doing 2-4 on p/p before they stealth again. Run away for a second or two and land a glue shot behind you. Theres a good chance you might see a revealed thief by then and proceed to pummel with supply crate and what not.

Another possibility instead of glue shot if you are running with rifle or shield is run with slick shoes to blind them. Also, if running with FT wait a few seconds then use your #5 blind.

For me, fights with stealth thieves end up as a stalemate – neither of us can finish the other, due to them being nervous to approach due to minefields and turrets, and me being incapable of hitting them while they’re stealthed. I don’t even run a particularly amazing build – right now, I’m running with Healing Turret, Flame Turret, Throw Mine and Rocket Boots, with 20/20/30/0/0 traitlines, and a combination of Apothecary and Carrion gear.

Mask has a vid covering this already

no I dont!

amadeus has one tho: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B4mbYlRiJw

also, you dont need 1900 toughness to survive a thief. I do it fine with 1350 :p

My Bad!! haha thought it was you saw the link a while back in another thread “thats probably y I couldnt find it”

Maskaganda.2043:

no I dont!

amadeus has one tho: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B4mbYlRiJw

also, you dont need 1900 toughness to survive a thief. I do it fine with 1350 :p

True, I just take pleasure in running around in nub bandit armor looking like a free kill for thief; only to shock them that they barely dent me

thiefs are easy win most of the time, if you survive their initial burst they go down so fast it’s actually hilarious. engis can combine high damage with anti burst skills/traits e.g protection injection, gear shield and many more

btw, flamejet + burning = gg stealth thief

To bring this topic back down to earth for us mere mortals, as it was said in a previous thread, thieves can be handled as long as:

1) you are prepared at every moment to respond if you start to get ganked
2) you have sufficient stats to survive the initial burst
3) you have skills/traits that allow you to go defensive until the thief finishes blowing his initiative
4) you have the power to put pressure on the thief once it’s your turn to go offensive
5) it helps to have CCs (chills, cripples, immobilizes, stuns, etc.) to interrupt their flow

For the average player, it takes some practice, and it is often suggested to spend some time in hotjoin sPvP so you get some experience.

Prybar in his face, static shot in his face, 10+ sec burning – covered with multiple other conditions, Ulti + Grenades/Bombs while he is stealthed and while hes is not. Interrupting him with our multiple ways while he casts stealth skills…. + 100 more options. If I ever lose against a thief 1 vs 1 with engi I will deinstall the game. Pls make a vid having problems with thief – I can’t belief it.

Engineers for the thousandth time gives thieves hell by default , if you couldnt beat them then and think you can now…not enough of a “buff” to make up for that lapse dude. Everyone here have informed you already of how to counter them with relative ease , now its up to you to sink or swim in your own pessimistic demise. Not even 1350 toughness is needede if you know what you doing , a 1k toughness Engie can *instagibb *the tankiest of opponents with SD. gl out there

Penguin.5197:

Maskaganda.2043:

no I dont!

amadeus has one tho: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B4mbYlRiJw

also, you dont need 1900 toughness to survive a thief. I do it fine with 1350 :p

True, I just take pleasure in running around in nub bandit armor looking like a free kill for thief; only to shock them that they barely dent me

Your armor doesnt look noob what so ever , try toning it down a bit to sale your plot lol.

Penguin.5197:

True, I just take pleasure in running around in nub bandit armor looking like a free kill for thief; only to shock them that they barely dent me

You could try something else. Like, wearing a full set of Flame Legion armor. Spiritually more nub-ish than a set of leather armor.

TheOneNOnlyGeneralBama.9586:

Your armor doesnt look noob what so ever , try toning it down a bit to sale your plot lol.

I was hoping making it a dull brown color was enough :/

MrForz.1953:

You could try something else. Like, wearing a full set of Flame Legion armor. Spiritually more nub-ish than a set of leather armor.

:O you are so right! There is nothing noobier than flame legion armor! In black!

Penguin.5197:

Against most thieves, its not about having high vitality, its about having high toughness. Ever since I started carrying a little over 1900 toughness, thieves just cant kill me anymore alone. Do deal with stealth thieves I usually like to start by dropping box of nails then block against the inevitable burst attempt. If I get hit before I block its not really a problem sice my protection injection kicks in and I can heal back to full right after. Engies have plenty of traits that help them from getting burst so thats not a problem.
Afterward comes my offensive doing 2-4 on p/p before they stealth again. Run away for a second or two and land a glue shot behind you. Theres a good chance you might see a revealed thief by then and proceed to pummel with supply crate and what not.

Thats usually how my encounters go.

Toughness doesn’t help against all thieves. I used a full sentinel set (vit toughness) at 30k health for a while, and still at least one thief killed me in seconds, and I couldn’t even scratch him. Some kind of tanky-dps-blind build I guess. Or a hacker.

Against other thieves (the ones that dont melt 30k in 8 seconds) I just spam grenades, block with gear shield, try to CC them with net shot, knock back, pull with magnet.. can’t do much more, needs a lot of luck considering blindness. If it’s a normal thief, they can be killed. Easy to know which kind it is :P If you’re at 40% health after seconds, and the thief not even scratched, it’s the OP kind and youre dead. They are usually perma-stealthed as well.

Most thieves run glassy builds, and they are easy to melt using the options described by the people in the posts above.

Still once in a while you encounter a non-glassy Patient and skilled thief, that you will not kill. When you do, don`t get suckered into a prolonged fight if you do not have backup coming, chances are he has (backup coming).

I used to play a Thief. Then I got my Engineer to 80 and haven’t looked back. Once you play a Thief you know their weaknesses and they are very easy to counter. Just remember, if you start beating them and they stealth, there’s a good chance they wont come back (emphasis on ‘you start beating them’) Most thieves will know in the first few seconds whether they can win or lose, if they think the odds are against them, they will stealth and bail. If it looks like they have a chance they will stick around they will stealth dance around you, assuming they haven’t melted you in that initial burst. Some toughness, vitality and learning when to pop counters help a lot. Static shield, smoke vent, air blast, gear shield, smoke bomb, flash grenade, Rocket Boots, Slick shoes, Personal Battering Ram, Net Turret are very important. Toolbelt skills that immoblise or knockdown are also extremely helpful.

We have plenty of ways to deny a thief the burst that they need with blinding. Anything with a knockdown or immobilise will also help as the thief only has one way of gaining stability and it’s an elite skill (Dagger Storm). To be honest, the Engineer is one of the best equipped professions for dealing with thieves.

It’s the one class that can simply hit a button and run away. Best escape mechanism in the game: stealth. They can reset the fight at any time.

I find the best approach has been mentioned already, high toughness and good survivability via multiple heals.

Personally, I have no issue with them per say unless they are jumping me while fighting someone else… which is pretty much the only thing thieves are good at.

Otherwise, I’m spec’d pistol/pistol+ knights gear(divinity runes)+ celestial jewelry(ascended), and 30/0/10/30/0. Grenade, Elixir gun, Elixir H(I have elixir masteries – 20% cd redux, 20% duration buff, and removes conditions when using/tossing elixir), Elixir B, and Supply Drop. With Super Elixir being used pretty much asap, I can out heal 95% of the damage output they can do. If they come into my circle of pain + healing, they suffer my usual glue gun, acidic elixir, elixir F, barrage, ice grenade, shrapnel. There’s plenty more abilities to spam, that all apply conditions, forcing the thief to spend more time stealthing up to remove conditions than actually doing any damage. Count the number of times he stealths (3+, and he’ll usually be out of initiative and run away or be dead).

Key to beating them is already knowing their class strengths, initiative, and weapon setup. D/D will try to burst you down + boon steal, D/P will dps, stealth + rinse repeat (their damage isn’t very good), S/D will stun you and dps you, Short Bow will does cluster and cripple + evade backwards, Pistol/Pistol will most likely just repeater(high dps). Those with good range will be the harder thieves to deal with since their high mobility counters a lot of engineer strengths(range being one of them).

My advice as of the latest patch:

Run Rocket Boots and Slick Shoes, alongside 30 in tools and gadget CDR. Rocket Boots makes it incredibly hard for them to escape with double teleports via bow, as well as you keep them in your ‘aggro range’ so their health doesn’t start recovering. The Slick Shoes serves a dual purpose – first is to chase them down once they’re still in aggro range and running, it makes it laughably easy to land net shot when you’re running twice their speed. Second is a stunbreaker, as they are thieves – they will probably try to stun you somehow.

The biggest deal with thieves is to be cautious while they’re stealthed – try to bait them out, make them botch their backstab attempt, either use flashbangs or dodge at an opportune moment or somesuch. Your biggest deal will be to catch them in their shadow refuge – the moment you see them use it, either try to grenade where you hope they’ll be standing (freeze grenade does a great job of this), or use Supply Crate at it’s center for a stun – and then play the guessing game. You’ll hopefully go in the same direction they do with your rocket boots, as I guarantee you they’re bow’ing away from you if you were doing good.

Maskaganda.2043:

no I dont!

amadeus has one tho: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B4mbYlRiJw

also, you dont need 1900 toughness to survive a thief. I do it fine with 1350 :p

“Theif” everywhere! It’s a good vid with solid advice. But hell, that typo gets under my skin for some reason. :P

I think nearly everything has been said already when it comes to countering thieves.
Except for plain counter stealthing. If you are using bombkit and they manage to get a stealth off you (or utility wise), drop a smoke bomb and blast/leap finish in it.
Unless he used shadow refuge, you’ll come out of stealth after him, leaving him vulnerable.
You can also try toss elixir S, but that’s a 50/50 shot at getting stealth.

Everything a 50/50 shot on the Engine , would we blow our opponent up or ourselves , will we stealth our downed ally or give him stability…Tyria may never know.