Guild Wars 2

To sum it up short – being able do deploy my own siege engine, that others can use is pretty awesome and feels 100% elite.

The idea of old mortar is awesome, it’s the implementation that sucked. So rather then this “new & improved” how about “old & fixed?”. But that i mean:

1. Ability to pick it up. Goes on 10s cooldown if you successfully pick it up, as it’s supposed to be the “always with you” elite.

2. Global cooldown on it’s skills gone, placement cooldown lowered to 30s (when destroyed).

3. Making it a turret rather then kit would also be awesome. Imagine all those traits working in it’s favour – especially fortified turrets, experimental turrets (small stability pulse?), and deployable turrets – place it for buddy who’s got higher ground so he can rain some death from above even if he’s full melee himself.

4. removing the minimum range from it would also be nice. Fix it’s animation to make it able to shoot 90 degrees upwards (read right into where you’re standing).

5. increase projectile velocity, let it crit. It’s still an arcing projectile, not ranger’s traited sonic speed arrows.

Why the new mortar sucks in my opinion?

1. It’s a kit. Where’s the bad-ssery of mounting an actual mortar?
2. self-only. Why can’t i let others use it while i jump into the fray?
3. Much less tactical terrain gameplay. New mortar is a kit. Only tactics here are traits/specialization choices, not using placement, terrain and teamwork to your advantage.

are you joking?

nope. /15 characters.

At least it will be useable. And it won’t be killed by some squirrel that just happened to run into it.
It never had any use as it was, anyway.

#mortarkit

That’s why i’m giving a list of changes in my first post to make it usable in my eyes. Also before everybody jumps the #mortarkit bandwagon, here’s a little freebie for you:

It’ll get a nerfbat, a big one.
Do you honestly think things like launch ice mortar will stay as they are on kit that will have 0 uptime issues and 0 skill required to keep it operational? Cause i don’t belive it one bit.

Where is the kittenery of carrying a mortar, you say?

Hmmm…. if the Mortar were to be like a bazooka, that’s a start.

When it comes to tactical terrain advantage, if you are talking about PvP, I don’t see how practical it is to have you or someone else stand still firing the thing when they got better skills under their repertoire. In WvW, we have mortars already and they pack a much bigger wallop compared to what we have. -.-

It’s planned to be a field toolbox. If i get a lightning, smoke and maybe a water/fire field, i’ll die a happy man. Besides, we desperately need an elite that does something in PvE aside from a single blast on a 180 cooldown. Mortar is shaping up to be one.

As of current, Mortar serves exactly zero purpose apart from shooting fireworks.

Of all the thing to complain about this is not one of them.

If they leave it as a turret, it would just end up dead in less than 10s. Like any other turret.
That’s the issue with it. Once he’s dead, it can’t do nothing.
And considering the range of the mortar, it isn’t difficult at all to kill it.
Making it a kit is the best choice they can have about it.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

That’s why i’m giving a list of changes in my first post to make it usable in my eyes. Also before everybody jumps the #mortarkit bandwagon, here’s a little freebie for you:

It’ll get a nerfbat, a big one.
Do you honestly think things like launch ice mortar will stay as they are on kit that will have 0 uptime issues and 0 skill required to keep it operational? Cause i don’t belive it one bit.

mortar could not be worse than it is now. currently it is a complete joke. I cannot think of a situation where it would be useful (for pvp and wvw, you can pve with bundles lol). even with nerf the mortar can only go uphill from here.

the kit we get will be better purely because it’s mobile. that point alone makes it better.

What? I cant wait to play with that thing. How could you not like it? Its possibly one of the best changes to happen to engi. No one uses mortar at all now, these changes will def make me pick it over grenade kit now, especially with the changes to grenades. Im sure they’ll tweak the skills since it will become a kit, i doubt theyll leave the skills as is. But it couldnt possibly be worse than it is now.

Mortar being turned into a Bazooka is the best thing that has ever happened to us.

alright then op…whatever floats your boat

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Why the new mortar sucks in my opinion?

1. It’s a kit. Where’s the bad-ssery of mounting an actual mortar?

Gone, because although it may have looked kind of cool, being completely stationary was useless. Instead we get the completely awesome “bad-ssery” of using a freaking grenade launcher!

2. self-only. Why can’t i let others use it while i jump into the fray?

Because no one is going to forgo using their abilities and the ability to dodge in order to use an underpowered stationary object.

3. Much less tactical terrain gameplay. New mortar is a kit. Only tactics here are traits/specialization choices, not using placement, terrain and teamwork to your advantage.

If you think none of those things apply to using kits, you are using kits wrong.

Removing the old useless mortar and replacing it with a grenade launcher is arguably the best thing they could have given us.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

To sum it up short – being able do deploy my own siege engine, that others can use is pretty awesome and feels 100% elite.

The idea of old mortar is awesome, it’s the implementation that sucked. So rather then this “new & improved” how about “old & fixed?”. But that i mean:

1. Ability to pick it up. Goes on 10s cooldown if you successfully pick it up, as it’s supposed to be the “always with you” elite.

2. Global cooldown on it’s skills gone, placement cooldown lowered to 30s (when destroyed).

3. Making it a turret rather then kit would also be awesome. Imagine all those traits working in it’s favour – especially fortified turrets, experimental turrets (small stability pulse?), and deployable turrets – place it for buddy who’s got higher ground so he can rain some death from above even if he’s full melee himself.

4. removing the minimum range from it would also be nice. Fix it’s animation to make it able to shoot 90 degrees upwards (read right into where you’re standing).

5. increase projectile velocity, let it crit. It’s still an arcing projectile, not ranger’s traited sonic speed arrows.

Why the new mortar sucks in my opinion?

1. It’s a kit. Where’s the bad-ssery of mounting an actual mortar?
2. self-only. Why can’t i let others use it while i jump into the fray?
3. Much less tactical terrain gameplay. New mortar is a kit. Only tactics here are traits/specialization choices, not using placement, terrain and teamwork to your advantage.

The idea of them turning it into an Elite Turret that provides Stability pulses from Experimental Turrets is incredibly funny. I’d probably use Mortar just for that and never touch the thing’s skills (which, by the way, showcases a pretty obvious design problem). But from the look of how ANet and the general angry mob feel about Turret Engineer, I don’t think “Tactical Terrain Gameplay” is something that they want to promote in anything the Engineer does.

The minimum range and slow projectile speeds should give it good counterplay in PvP and make terrain and positioning just as important.

My favorite part of it being a kit is that it can proc the “on elite” runes. Krait for a condi bomb every 30s, Lyssa for 5 conditions converted to boons ever 45 seconds, Mad King for ravens every 45 seconds, and possibly the best, Sunless for an instant cast AoE fear and poison every 45 seconds. That fear especially has nice synergy with the minimum range of mortar kit. Hopefully there’s a good visual indicator of when the runes are off cooldown so you don’t accidentally blow them while far from danger.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

To sum it up short – being able do deploy my own siege engine, that others can use is pretty awesome and feels 100% elite.

The idea of old mortar is awesome, it’s the implementation that sucked. So rather then this “new & improved” how about “old & fixed?”. But that i mean:

1. Ability to pick it up. Goes on 10s cooldown if you successfully pick it up, as it’s supposed to be the “always with you” elite.

2. Global cooldown on it’s skills gone, placement cooldown lowered to 30s (when destroyed).

3. Making it a turret rather then kit would also be awesome. Imagine all those traits working in it’s favour – especially fortified turrets, experimental turrets (small stability pulse?), and deployable turrets – place it for buddy who’s got higher ground so he can rain some death from above even if he’s full melee himself.

4. removing the minimum range from it would also be nice. Fix it’s animation to make it able to shoot 90 degrees upwards (read right into where you’re standing).

5. increase projectile velocity, let it crit. It’s still an arcing projectile, not ranger’s traited sonic speed arrows.

Why the new mortar sucks in my opinion?

1. It’s a kit. Where’s the bad-ssery of mounting an actual mortar?
2. self-only. Why can’t i let others use it while i jump into the fray?
3. Much less tactical terrain gameplay. New mortar is a kit. Only tactics here are traits/specialization choices, not using placement, terrain and teamwork to your advantage.

How dare you! We’ve been asking for this forever now! You just keep quiet until changes are live and don’t poison anyone else’s head with that nonsense!

Oh and have a good day.

Doesn’t make sense to have a stationary skill of this kind in gw2 when it’s all about being mobile.

I’d much rather have the mortar kit

Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365:

Doesn’t make sense to have a stationary skill of this kind in gw2 when it’s all about being mobile.

I’d much rather have the mortar kit

This. The game is about movement, a skill that promotes stationary play is bad.

Look at the HoT trailer that boss fight with the dragon making firewalls, how could you ever use the current Mortar there?

If making mortar whatever you want to roleplay it as means they won’t touch grenades then you have my vote.

And this is the global engineer answer to the OP’s post:

:D sry kid but no

Honestly, the old design is really what brought me to the engineer class. It seemed like it was a perfect tool for WvW when you could launch mortar strikes from the walls.

Also the idea that i can use it, leave it and it could still be used by someone else. This brought the Team play support aspect of the game up a ton. Sadly now, the game seems to cater to a bunch of one man army players :/

Making it a kit is fixing it though… I don’t… I don’t understand why this thread exist.

Now I need to dig my time machine out of storage to go back to a time before I came here… this place scares me… seriously.

Xyonon.3987:

And this is the global engineer answer to the OP’s post:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n5E7feJHw0

:D sry kid but no

So much YES.

Mortar kit is awesome, I loves it, I’d make loves to it if I could

Being a kit is superior than all your methods combined…

I’m so excited about Mortar Kit I actually logged into my Engineer to do more than just some cooking.

I’ll be brief:

Read the first post till the end before you comment

For the 5% that did and still disagree – it might be difference in what we want. You want EZ mode no challenge mortar. And mortar kit does just that.

I want a mortar that gives me more options, at cost of expecting me to be skillful to use it – and that’s what mortar turret with all the risk of a turret but also the benefits (turret traits+ability to have others use it) brings.
I pretty clearly mentioned ability to pick it up with 10s cooldown on it if you do so. That’s skilled gameplay factor there. But i do forget how many here get shivers and deep trauma the moment game expects them to be skillfull and use a skill that involves some risk…

iKeostuKen.2738:

Honestly, the old design is really what brought me to the engineer class. It seemed like it was a perfect tool for WvW when you could launch mortar strikes from the walls.

Also the idea that i can use it, leave it and it could still be used by someone else. This brought the Team play support aspect of the game up a ton. Sadly now, the game seems to cater to a bunch of one man army players :/

homeslice, not only is mortar worse than any siege in WvW but it’s probably worse than whatever weapon the dude has using it. nades are always a better option. I get more use out of norn and charr elites than the literal joke that is the mortar, it can’t even crit lol.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

I’ll be brief:

Read the first post till the end before you comment

For the 5% that did and still disagree – it might be difference in what we want. You want EZ mode no challenge mortar. And mortar kit does just that.

I want a mortar that gives me more options, at cost of expecting me to be skillful to use it – and that’s what mortar turret with all the risk of a turret but also the benefits (turret traits+ability to have others use it) brings.
I pretty clearly mentioned ability to pick it up with 10s cooldown on it if you do so. That’s skilled gameplay factor there. But i do forget how many here get shivers and deep trauma the moment game expects them to be skillfull and use a skill that involves some risk…

They can add all your suggested change as QoL changes and still make it a kit.
Problem solved.

Toxsa – that’s a pretty good suggestion. And might be quite fun and balanced one if done right.

I would love for mortar kit (if that’s what we’re getting) to have the option to place it down as a turret, which can be destroyed, but also used by others, picked up and benefits from turret traits when in that mode.

Also it would make sense in my opinion for handheld kit version to be weaker then stationary one in some regards, range of it being the first that comes to mind. After all proper rooting in ground is the basis of launching a stronger attack, and gameplay wise less risk (can’t be destroyed, is mobile) should carry less rewards.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

I’ll be brief:

Read the first post till the end before you comment

For the 5% that did and still disagree – it might be difference in what we want. You want EZ mode no challenge mortar. And mortar kit does just that.

I want a mortar that gives me more options, at cost of expecting me to be skillful to use it – and that’s what mortar turret with all the risk of a turret but also the benefits (turret traits+ability to have others use it) brings.
I pretty clearly mentioned ability to pick it up with 10s cooldown on it if you do so. That’s skilled gameplay factor there. But i do forget how many here get shivers and deep trauma the moment game expects them to be skillfull and use a skill that involves some risk…

The second you claimed “the 5% who disagree”, you lost me. Clearly your not looking for an honest discussion when your making random claims and stating your subject opinions as if they were objective facts. I disagree with most of what you said. I feel history has proven kits as a superior skill in most cases, and I suspect 5% might actually be the amount who do agree with you.

Clearly you didn’t read my first post nor the answers to it.

Had you done so you’d easily notice a nearly total lack of answers other then “kit is better, ktnxbye” without a slighest hint of them having even taken a look at proposed changes and comparing that with the a-net proposed handheld kit.

Unless you don’t want the option to have reflective shield with fortified turrets on 10s cd, pulsing some stab at yourself and allies, and having ability for a buddy to drop healing and ice fields down before he joins you in the meat grinder at point.

Honest discussion? If you read what i just wrote here and give reply that makes it clear you actually read it, then i’ll consider that a start of honest discussion.

No, I read it. I simply disagree with most of your suggestions. More so if what reasoning you explained. We already have an elite turret comming and a kit makes more sense. As well I have seen thread upon thread discussing and suggesting it be a kit. The reason I suggested you do not want an honest discussion is because of how your so aggressive toward anyone disagreeing with you

Well you have read my reason above. At least one person here does so after reading the first post, so no hard feelings your way.

Yeah i can see the allure of mobile kit, and true – they are revamping the crate to be a turret. Though in all honestly I still consider the mortar kit a lazy, unimaginative solution.

It’s basically a grenade kit with bigger range and combo fields.
A placeable mortar (given it’d been done right, and not the abomination that it was) would be a balanced, unique gameplay mechanic, that would offer more then kit version to skilled player, while punishing hard brain dead gameplay.

It’s that kind of skill i want to see on my engi elite, and not just “bigger grenades” with no original take on it at all.

Also all that hype about mortar kit, but already stated truth is they’re changing it’s skills to suit it’s new nature. This might be the deal maker or breaker. But i for one have to say “yaaaaawn” at this “Grenade kit Mk 2”.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Well you have read my reason above. At least one person here does so after reading the first post, so no hard feelings your way.

Yeah i can see the allure of mobile kit, and true – they are revamping the crate to be a turret. Though in all honestly I still consider the mortar kit a lazy, unimaginative solution.

It’s basically a grenade kit with bigger range and combo fields.
A placeable mortar (given it’d been done right, and not the abomination that it was) would be a balanced, unique gameplay mechanic, that would offer more then kit version to skilled player, while punishing hard brain dead gameplay.

It’s that kind of skill i want to see on my engi elite, and not just “bigger grenades” with no original take on it at all.

Also all that hype about mortar kit, but already stated truth is they’re changing it’s skills to suit it’s new nature. This might be the deal maker or breaker. But i for one have to say “yaaaaawn” at this “Grenade kit Mk 2”.

firstly it’s an AOE weapon like nades and bombs. it’s supposed to be focused around combo fields, which makes it more like a ranged bomb kit. cool if you ask me, especially with the range reduction on nades + removal of combo fields. looks like it might even have a unique nishe (gosh dang it’s almost like it was designed or something).

secondly your elitist attitude is dumb enough to be hilarious. of course standing still and
pressing 1-5 is more skillful than moving while fighting. I mean, yeah not moving takes a lot of skill homes. a stationary weapon offers far fewer tactical advantages than a mobile one, so it’s pretty funny you think it offers more when it has less functionality.

you talk about brain dead gameplay, and from what I can tell it’s moving while you fight? not really sure though, but I’m sure you the king of esports will enlighten me.

1. It’s a kit. Where’s the bad-ssery of mounting an actual mortar?

That was indeed fun, however, being mobile and knowing when to Dodge what is more skillful than knowing placing a mortar where noone can reach it.

2. self-only. Why can’t i let others use it while i jump into the fray?

I’m pretty sure other players rather their own skills than jumping on a stationary mortar that either dies or gets them killed.

3. Much less tactical terrain gameplay. New mortar is a kit. Only tactics here are traits/specialization choices, not using placement, terrain and teamwork to your advantage.

The only none skillful play here would be to pick the mortar instead of supply crate. Even if it could crit and whatelse you’re suggesting (which I already have in an old post) the kit is so much better in any way compared to the stationary version.
Besides from Tower defense in wvw, the kit allows you to move with the fights so much easier, and to react faster to different situations.
10 seconds might seem like a fair trade, but those 10 secs couldve been used to move 10 feet the other way and then put down an ice field.

I think i get what you mean, immobilizing skills (not the condition) have a mixture of tactical and reactive gameplay. Arenanet seems to be all for the reactive gameplay of reducing cast times, making everything mobile and then in turn have players dodge and block each other. Thats fun. But there could be more depth if we mixed the two gameplay styles a bit more.

I remember the early stages of develolment when for example the longbow on the ranger was immobile (even on the auto i think), meaning it was made for calculated long range and hard hitting shots and where positioning truly is a resource. Then we had the shortbow with considerably shorter range but with mobility. The distinction between the two where really clear, this is a long range support/sniping weapon, this one is all about skirmishing. Now you can even move during rapid fire meaning a longbow ranger is still going to follow you around corners and so on. We have had skills like killshot considerably reduced when it comes to cast time as well as skills like our shield made mobile. And while we could not return to the idea of mobile skirmishing vs powerful, slow longrange vs hard hitting, controlling melee, vs sticky mobile light melee with how much this would need us to rebalance everything back its an interesting thought.

I do love elements with a planning nature built in, placing medkits for emergency evacuations before hand, placing a SD rifle turret in a corridor so i know when the thief is going to appear, a mine here should knock them down the ledge and make them more exposed etc. Or have a turret placed here to make them look in this direction when they enter the point, long enough for me to get a drop on them at this other location. Across all professions though it seems that on the move gameplay is all the rage. Mantras that where supposed to be a reward for perfect resource management, but arenanet have slowly been reducing their cast time instead of figuring out a way to make them work better while still preserving the resource feel, rangers throw their traps directly at enemies like grenades because its better than having a clone triggering them etc. And how many thieves use traps (seriously make them work like a line of warding effect that pop up for 5 sec when triggered or something)?

Why would the flamethrower be a better candidate for knocking stuff back than the landmine? And why is the best use of it to throw it like a Frisbee?

When i faced turreters as a static discharge engineer while they could be annoying for a number of reasons at least i got the urge to plan my approach to the point, not just skill x-y-z repeat. I popped up from different angles nullifying his/her defense and offense before making the actual kill. This though is made nonviable for a number of reasons.

Points tick fast, meaning the time spent clearing up the trap is not a stalling but a loss.

Some classes, not mentioning names have a tendency to port across the map in the blink of an eye and also have excellent synergy with a tanky character on point.

Turrets are placed with full power in a second, meaning setup can be made on the fly without leaving them exposed to clever planning.

And finally supply crate gives them another round of turrets and medkits on the fly (again) meaning that he/she can continue to stall even after you have spent time disarming the point.

There could be much more thought involved on both sides, but everything is homogenized.

For example in a alien version of gw2 the mortar could maybe have long enough range and a targeting system (minimap alá bf3/bf4 anyone?) to support points from other points in pvp, meaning that while you where decapping a point a concussion barrage could be requested to disrupt the enemy teams stomping/reviving on your mid.
A siege weapon giving you the ability to be anywhere but at the cost of shooting blindly unless communicating with allies.

I could see that being a thing absolutely.

At the same time a rocket launcher is awesome.

sigh I ranted again didn’t i?

TLDR: I love it when a plan comes together.

I’m perfectly fine with the change into a kit. Can’t wait to run around and let the hell rain down.

1. Ability to pick it up. Goes on 10s cooldown if you successfully pick it up, as it’s supposed to be the “always with you” elite.
*Functionally, you either lose a weapon skill (for a “pick up” skill) or lose the ability to let others use it.

2. Global cooldown on it’s skills gone, placement cooldown lowered to 30s (when destroyed).
*This would just be a flat buff, which is fine, if that’s what you’re looking for. With Mortar’s range, this might just make it a long-range skill-spamming option, which isn’t so much fun as a face roll. With your requested pickup option and whatever move-speed enhancement they roll into HoT, you can get some trollish Place, SpamSpamSpamSpamSpam, Pick up, Run, Repeat gameplay, especially in wvwvw. With proper coordination and condition duration buffs, 5 engis could keep 25 players slowed and taking damage for a long time.

3. Making it a turret rather then kit would also be awesome. Imagine all those traits working in it’s favour – especially fortified turrets, experimental turrets (small stability pulse?), and deployable turrets – place it for buddy who’s got higher ground so he can rain some death from above even if he’s full melee himself.
*This wouldn’t really work with the functionality of turrets currently, unless you take up an otherwise-useful Toolbelt 5 and make it a “Place as Turret” option. However, that would negate your ability to use it, since it would act as a turret and pick-up on interact. This would also conflict with your pick-up option because either you can’t interact with your own turret or you give a borderline useless tool to allies with only 4 skills.

4. removing the minimum range from it would also be nice. Fix it’s animation to make it able to shoot 90 degrees upwards (read right into where you’re standing).
This is another flat buff and takes a lot of the “tactical gameplay” out of the picture, since you can just spam powerful AoEs at close range (given your requested removal of global cds). This *might work with removing the stability buff from the mortar, but you probably don’t want that.

5. increase projectile velocity, let it crit. It’s still an arcing projectile, not ranger’s traited sonic speed arrows.
*Another flat buff, and the increase to projectile speed would just make it more noob friendly. It’s a mortar, not a grenade launcher, and they made it that way for a reason. I’m actually all for letting it crit, but speeding up the projectiles (base increase) would just be silly.

Personally, I’m all for making the Mortar some sort of Rocket Propelled Grenade Kit. To make it interesting and incorporate some of the aspects of the mortar in to it, I think they should actually hinder your movement speed while you have it equipped—making the gameplay more tactical, more impactful and less of a faceroll. This way, it can function like any other kit without a long cool down but not be so overpowered that we never use any other kits (grenades + bombs + mortar/rpg = SuperExplodyFunTime).

So… TLDR:

*OP’s heart is in the right place, but his/her ideas just wouldn’t work very well given the game’s current mechanics.
*Make the new mortar a kit just like any other, but have it kitten your movement speed to balance the access to powerful AoE and combo fields.

Toxsa.2701:

Being a kit is superior than all your methods combined…

This^