Guild Wars 2

How is it possible that flame jet still has the problem with missing so much. It is not like it is the only cone style weapon.

Drakes Breath
Fumigate
Cleansing Flame

I have never seen any of these have the same miss issue as flame jet. Please look into fixing this! Flame jet has had this issue for far too long!!!

I rarely miss with flame jet, it follows the camera path more than the direction the flame itself is pointing. While this can be problematic it also allows a bit of freedom of how easy it can be to hit someone or something with it. Obviously it won’t work if you are facing east and turn the camera full 180, but if you are facing east and turn the camera north to follow the movement of the mob the hit will “track” in the camera direction. Seems to be roughly 45 degrees or so off centerline of the direction the flame jet is pointing. It isn’t perfect of course, and I realize other skills don’t work this way but I hope it helps if you were not previously aware of it.

It would be nice if they could get the flame and the camera to sync up.

How the heck are you even missing with Flame Jet if you are in 450 range? Video plz.

Kain Francois.4328:

How the heck are you even missing with Flame Jet if you are in 450 range? Video plz.

There’s a bug involving the camera aim ‘lock’ causing misses.

Honestly, no one would miss at all with Flame Jet if you’d just not select a target, and aim manually.

Only FT skill that needs a target is 2, and it shouldn’t be an issue to quickly select a target, fire off a flame blast, and deselect.

OR… they can make it work like every other mechanic in the game to allow you to hit the target you are focused on. If I was to ONLY use flame jet then yes that might work but all the other skills I use require a target. So I say again.. please fix flame jet to work on target.

ShadowPuppet.3746:

if you are facing east and turn the camera north to follow the movement of the mob the hit will “track” in the camera direction.

Isn’t that what it’s supposed to do? Holding down your RMB locks your camera and hides your cursor. Where you move your mouse becomes where your character looks, and your ‘A’ and ‘D’ keys change from being “turn” keys to “strafe” keys—to the left and right respectively.

It’s the same mechanic that allows you to lock your ground-targeting cursor when using the Grenade Kit to a fixed range. It’s invaluable when fast-casting. By holding down the RMB you can also “sweep” your Flame Jet’s plume over an entire crowd versus being locked to your target, which is what makes it so amazing in WvW.

I like the way it works right now. I’d rather they not change it. Just get used to it and you won’t miss as much.

Phineas, your method will still work even with a target selected so fixing the issue will not prevent you from doing what you already are. Fixing the issue WILL allow someone like me to keep a target, use flame jet as the mechanic is supposed to work and allow me to use my other skills. Missing when the opposition is standing INSIDE the flame cone is really frustrating.

Fix is still wanted.

It is almost as if the game should have a “ignore target” key more than a “lock target” key (Targeting: Hold Lock)…

Honestly i can’t quite figure out the targeting mechanics of flame jet. Sometimes it seems to get stuck on a corpse, but other times it moves freely with the camera even with a live target.

there are two settings which effect the behaviour of the flame jet: target lock, and auto aim.

the relevant setting is auto aim. if you have a target selected, but have your camera pointed away from that opponent, your flame jet will continue to track the target regardless of RMB+strafing when auto-aim is enabled.

this is what causes the mistaken “missing” and “stuttering” of the flame jet as the ability tries to figure out which way to face. thus, the farther off-centre your targeted opponent is, the more frequently you might find yourself “missing”

this is an incompatibility between a game feature and the skill’s mechanic, but there is nothing broken about the skill itself.

turn off auto aim.

Auto aim? There is a auto targeting toggle, but i do not recall there being a auto aim toggle. If i select a target, be it mouse, tab or simply skill use, any skill use will attempt to aim towards what i am targeting. And i kinda like that as any target that gets behind me is a simple skill tap away from being in front again.

And as OP pointed out, flame jet seems to be the only skill in the whole game that has a issue like this. This even tho there are multiple skills that use a similar mechanic.

I almost never miss with the flamethrower. Trust me, use of for a week and it will become a part of you. You will learn to constantly lure monsters in a line so you can hit them all.

I met some engineer in SPvP what tried flame me from about 1000ft distance. Maybe there was a problem:-D

Jastorm.5972:

How is it possible that flame jet still has the problem with missing so much. It is not like it is the only cone style weapon.

Drakes Breath
Fumigate
Cleansing Flame

I have never seen any of these have the same miss issue as flame jet. Please look into fixing this! Flame jet has had this issue for far too long!!!

It does you have to have near perfect camera control the entire time when using it. if enemies run behind you like in Orr then it becomes very noticeable. Yet another bug that was reported in patch notes as fixed but that never was.

And there’s also the Charr tendency to burn the ground instead of target the enemy straight forward.

Jastorm.5972:

How is it possible that flame jet still has the problem with missing so much.

Havent had miss issues with FT since they patched it. Works fine for me.

Only downside is that FT is utter garbage in pvp (as is direct dmg engi in general)

digiowl.9620:

Auto aim? There is a auto targeting toggle, but i do not recall there being a auto aim toggle. If i select a target, be it mouse, tab or simply skill use, any skill use will attempt to aim towards what i am targeting. And i kinda like that as any target that gets behind me is a simple skill tap away from being in front again.

And as OP pointed out, flame jet seems to be the only skill in the whole game that has a issue like this. This even tho there are multiple skills that use a similar mechanic.

tomato, tomato. qq more.

RaynStargaze.6510:

Jastorm.5972:

How is it possible that flame jet still has the problem with missing so much.

Havent had miss issues with FT since they patched it. Works fine for me.

Only downside is that FT is utter garbage in pvp (as is direct dmg engi in general)

if you are trying to use the FT for a dmg kit you are doing it wrong.

tigirius.9014:

Jastorm.5972:

How is it possible that flame jet still has the problem with missing so much. It is not like it is the only cone style weapon.

Drakes Breath
Fumigate
Cleansing Flame

I have never seen any of these have the same miss issue as flame jet. Please look into fixing this! Flame jet has had this issue for far too long!!!

It does you have to have near perfect camera control the entire time when using it. if enemies run behind you like in Orr then it becomes very noticeable. Yet another bug that was reported in patch notes as fixed but that never was.

And there’s also the Charr tendency to burn the ground instead of target the enemy straight forward.

it isn’t a bug when you face one way and cannot hit foes running beside or behind you.

l2p.

I (largely) don’t miss, at least within range. And, I’ve never had trouble with not missing in particular, so it’s a bit difficult to debug this. I’ve always got pretty strict camera control going when in a fight, and circle strafing is second nature. There are instances where the enemy hitbox and I don’t really agree on where it ought to be (particularly large objects like dragons are an issue), and there is the rare occasions when terrain incline causes a miss, but all of this is easily fixable and adaptable. It’s quite unlike trying to control camera and ground reticule and character movement all simultaneously as with the grenade kit, which is one reason I tend to favor flamethrower.

It may help to be very aware of how the target aiming works and use that to your advantage. I VERY frequently will have something targeted at max range, and then circle strafe around that point until I get other enemies in the cone as well. You can tab (or click — I find clicking to be pretty inaccurate) target through enemies until you find one at a distance and angle you like and away you go.

Hope that helps a bit. I think FT targeting is largely working and fine (though grenade aficionados tell me that grenade targeting is largely working and fine, so I suppose it’s all very subjective on everyone’s part :-)).

nakoda.4213:

tigirius.9014:

Jastorm.5972:

How is it possible that flame jet still has the problem with missing so much. It is not like it is the only cone style weapon.

Drakes Breath
Fumigate
Cleansing Flame

I have never seen any of these have the same miss issue as flame jet. Please look into fixing this! Flame jet has had this issue for far too long!!!

It does you have to have near perfect camera control the entire time when using it. if enemies run behind you like in Orr then it becomes very noticeable. Yet another bug that was reported in patch notes as fixed but that never was.

And there’s also the Charr tendency to burn the ground instead of target the enemy straight forward.

it isn’t a bug when you face one way and cannot hit foes running beside or behind you.

l2p.

l2p something constructive. It’s been a bug the entire time when FT misses more than the cone attacks on other character classes.

It’s a bug when you are spraying flames all over the enemy and misses consistantly. The autoaim especially for the Charr doesn’t work. Charr consistantly spray below the dirt when aiming at small creatures and they can be right in front of you and you’ll still miss somehow.

No matter how you slice it, the issue with Charr (and presumably, tall Norn) aiming straight into the ground is kind of an annoying issue.

nakoda.4213:

RaynStargaze.6510:

Jastorm.5972:

How is it possible that flame jet still has the problem with missing so much.

Havent had miss issues with FT since they patched it. Works fine for me.

Only downside is that FT is utter garbage in pvp (as is direct dmg engi in general)

if you are trying to use the FT for a dmg kit you are doing it wrong.

No, the devs are doing it wrong. When they removed the pull skill from the FT they specifically stated that it was because they wanted it to be a damage kit rather than a utility one. Why every change they’ve made since then has seemingly been to do the exact opposite of what they said is one of life’s great mysteries.

Hrmf, just played around with my engineer and a elementalist at the LA training dummies. And in all instances, moving just the camera or the character as well, flamethrower would track the targeted dummy just as well as any of the other skills with similar mechanics. but at the same time i have personally witnessed the issue OP mentions when fighting actual mobs, so…

Conncept.7638:

nakoda.4213:

RaynStargaze.6510:

Jastorm.5972:

How is it possible that flame jet still has the problem with missing so much.

Havent had miss issues with FT since they patched it. Works fine for me.

Only downside is that FT is utter garbage in pvp (as is direct dmg engi in general)

if you are trying to use the FT for a dmg kit you are doing it wrong.

No, the devs are doing it wrong. When they removed the pull skill from the FT they specifically stated that it was because they wanted it to be a damage kit rather than a utility one. Why every change they’ve made since then has seemingly been to do the exact opposite of what they said is one of life’s great mysteries.

frankly, what the “devs” say is irrelevant.

the “devs” also want turrets to be long lasting, and warriors to be competitive.

all we have is the game we are playing, and in the game we are playing, the one you paid for, the one we all log in to, the exact same game…in that game, the FT is not a damage weapon and if you are using it as such you are doing it wrong.

nakoda, your elitist attitude towards everyone else being wrong except you is not interesting or helpful and you are not the end all be all of “the game we play”. None of what you say has been helpful or very relevant to the topic at hand. If someone wants to use the FT as a damage kit they are completely allowed to try and have fun with it whether you think its wrong or not. What YOU say is irrelevant! Stop QQ and trolling.

Back to the topic at hand, if I can target a mob (pvp or pve) and be able to hit them with explosive shot, hip shot, and tranquilizer dart while the mob is anywhere in the 180 degree range in front of me, but when I use a flame jet and it misses consistently.. that is a glitch that needs to be fixed. Whether it is a game mechanic issue, a skill mechanic issue or something else, it is still something that shouldn’t happen.

A fix is still required.

Thank you everyone else who posted support or hints and tips on how to make it work in its current state. all CONSTRUCTIVE criticism is welcome and appreciated. (L2P is arrogant and elitist, NOT constructive)

digiowl.9620:

And as OP pointed out, flame jet seems to be the only skill in the whole game that has a issue like this. This even tho there are multiple skills that use a similar mechanic.

It has a lot to do with its attack speed.

Zealot’s Flame and Drake’s Breath work the exact same way and will “miss” if you, well, miss. But Flame Jet attacks 10 times per 2.25 seconds while Drake’s Breath attacks only 4 times in the same time span.

It’s really nothing wrong with Flame Jet at all; the issue is just more obvious because of how quickly it hits.

I recommend turning off “Autotargeting” and “Promote Skill Target” in the General Options. By targeting a mob your Flame Jet will more likely “stick” to the target and affect your ability to sweep through crowds, which is what Flame Jet’s primary strength is.

Only target somebody when you’re using Flame Blast or focus-firing a single target. When dealing with 10+ targets, like in WvW, you should just be sending your plume in wide arcs to hit as many people as possible. Autotargeting and Promote Skill Target will hinder this. The game thinks you’re still trying to hit the guy you’re targeting, causing you to “miss.”

FT has a multitude of problems still. QoL, dps, burst, toolbelt skill, lack of finishers, traits, each skill, power/cond compared to other power/cond weapons, retalia,tion, auto, accuracy, range,

Kalan.9705:

FT has a multitude of problems still. QoL, dps, burst, toolbelt skill, lack of finishers, traits, each skill, power/cond compared to other power/cond weapons, retalia,tion, auto, accuracy, range,

Flame Blast is arguably the best burst weapon skill Engineers have.

It does almost equal to Grenade Barrage in damage.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Kalan.9705:

FT has a multitude of problems still. QoL, dps, burst, toolbelt skill, lack of finishers, traits, each skill, power/cond compared to other power/cond weapons, retalia,tion, auto, accuracy, range,

Flame Blast is arguably the best burst weapon skill Engineers have.

It does almost equal to Grenade Barrage in damage.

Flame blast isn’t a bad skill, even if it is incredibly susceptible to skill lag problems in wvw, and it isn’t supported that well or very cohesive with the rest of the kit.

Kalan.9705:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Kalan.9705:

FT has a multitude of problems still. QoL, dps, burst, toolbelt skill, lack of finishers, traits, each skill, power/cond compared to other power/cond weapons, retalia,tion, auto, accuracy, range,

Flame Blast is arguably the best burst weapon skill Engineers have.

It does almost equal to Grenade Barrage in damage.

Flame blast isn’t a bad skill, even if it is incredibly susceptible to skill lag problems in wvw, and it isn’t supported that well or very cohesive with the rest of the kit.

If you’re having trouble with skill lag using Flame Blast, then the Grenade Kit must be nigh unplayable for you.

I think the FT has very few issues. Flame Jet could do a tad more damage, Incendiary Ammo could be a stronger toolbelt skill, and Flame Blast could be a Blast finisher, but IMHO it’s not as bad as you say it is with a “multitude of problems.”

Also, flame jet has real problems with anyone at a slightly different height to you.

Only problem with Flame Jet getting fixed is that I still want to be able to shoot through walls with it :P
It’s awesome when defending in WvWvW, I can just jet through the door and hit any attackers on the other side extremely easily for free damage.

just to add. This also still happens with BlowTorch if an enemy even moves a bit to the left when this goes off suddenly it misses. It’s definitely NOT fixed that’s for sure. That previous patch note has been inaccurate since the day it was posted.

I’ve recently been using the FT a bit and find that it misses a lot when my target is at a different elevation than I am. The difference in elevation can be very small too. This is when I have the guy targeted and am facing towards him so I don’t think it has anything to do with the targeting options. Maybe you all are talking about something else but that is one major problem I have noticed with FT#1 – good example is the little ramp leading up to windmill/mansion on Khylo pvp map – if they are on the ramp and I’m above nearer to the point it will often miss.

Turn off “Auto Targeting”.
The “MISS” problem usually happens when the mob is moving around alot.
Deselect the mob and use manual aim with FT#1, when it stands still, target it again.

For the “large character VS small target” try to “aim” with your right mouse button.
Select the target and aim straight forward or into the sky, then use the left mouse button to look around.
The combat system in this game is a “FPS style with the limitations of an MMO” so it’s very borked.

Hybelkaninen.3087:

The combat system in this game is a “FPS style with the limitations of an MMO” so it’s very borked.

This i can agree with.

Thank you for all the advice on how to make FT function with it being in the state it is in. Hopefully Anet will get around to fixing this (among some of the other engi bugs) some time soon. Would love to see FT be more useful as a Power/CC kit. :-)

Still waiting and hoping for a response from Anet if this is even being looked at….

nakoda.4213:

Conncept.7638:

nakoda.4213:

RaynStargaze.6510:

Jastorm.5972:

How is it possible that flame jet still has the problem with missing so much.

Havent had miss issues with FT since they patched it. Works fine for me.

Only downside is that FT is utter garbage in pvp (as is direct dmg engi in general)

if you are trying to use the FT for a dmg kit you are doing it wrong.

No, the devs are doing it wrong. When they removed the pull skill from the FT they specifically stated that it was because they wanted it to be a damage kit rather than a utility one. Why every change they’ve made since then has seemingly been to do the exact opposite of what they said is one of life’s great mysteries.

frankly, what the “devs” say is irrelevant.

the “devs” also want turrets to be long lasting, and warriors to be competitive.

all we have is the game we are playing, and in the game we are playing, the one you paid for, the one we all log in to, the exact same game…in that game, the FT is not a damage weapon and if you are using it as such you are doing it wrong.

The game is made for the players, not the players for the game. Nobody picks up a flame thrower in any game and says “Hmm… I’m going to support with this!” And the devs have stated they don’t think so either. If you think it’s admirable to sit down, shut up, and provide no input as mistakes are made left and right, that’s your philosophy and the remainder of us are not required to abide by it.

Conncept.7638:

nakoda.4213:

Conncept.7638:

nakoda.4213:

RaynStargaze.6510:

Jastorm.5972:

How is it possible that flame jet still has the problem with missing so much.

Havent had miss issues with FT since they patched it. Works fine for me.

Only downside is that FT is utter garbage in pvp (as is direct dmg engi in general)

if you are trying to use the FT for a dmg kit you are doing it wrong.

No, the devs are doing it wrong. When they removed the pull skill from the FT they specifically stated that it was because they wanted it to be a damage kit rather than a utility one. Why every change they’ve made since then has seemingly been to do the exact opposite of what they said is one of life’s great mysteries.

frankly, what the “devs” say is irrelevant.

the “devs” also want turrets to be long lasting, and warriors to be competitive.

all we have is the game we are playing, and in the game we are playing, the one you paid for, the one we all log in to, the exact same game…in that game, the FT is not a damage weapon and if you are using it as such you are doing it wrong.

The game is made for the players, not the players for the game. Nobody picks up a flame thrower in any game and says “Hmm… I’m going to support with this!” And the devs have stated they don’t think so either. If you think it’s admirable to sit down, shut up, and provide no input as mistakes are made left and right, that’s your philosophy and the remainder of us are not required to abide by it.

if you think that i am sitting down and shutting up, you have a very odd sense of silence.

calling the FT a utility kit instead of a dps kit, in all honesty, was a rhetorical measure because for whatever reason, dps to everyone meant grenade level aoe barage at every turn or you just arent “viable” … what ever that might mean.

i have clearly stated at every turn why i call the FT a utility kit, and have done so in such a way as to acknowledge the kit’s relatively low dps so that new players picking up the kit aren’t disillusioned about it.

and whether you like it or not, the game you play is immutable from where you sit. and until Anet actually makes the kit a “dps” kit, then what we have to use is a mid-range dmg kit that offers far more utility than it does outright dps.

you may want to have the belief that, like a book or a movie or a song, the game is made for you, and that you have some special privilege within it because you are “a client” or “a customer” or “a gamer” or whatever label you think you deserve, but regardless of your own ability to adapt within the framework of the game, the framework exists entirely independently from you just like the narrative of a story, film, whatever. it effects you .. not the other way around.

stop lying to yourself about it.

stop being average.

furthermore, not only have i – not once – argued that the flamethrower will ever be as high a dps kit as the grenade kit, neither have i ever – once – denied the problems that the kit has.

i argued for an supported the detonation option of flame blast, i have called for more burning from flame jet and clearly suggested that more dps is always welcome. I have argued and agreed that smoke vent needs to be a combo field, and that the kit needs more blast finishing capabilities.

most of you don’t even bother to read what i say because you assume i am being elitist and condescending.

not my problem.

Flame Jet is not broken. There is nothing wrong with it. The problem lies with you. I have, as have many others, offered advice on how to make it work. It is up to you to follow the advice. This is not being rude. This is being honest and truthful, in an attempt to help you find the groove that the FT fills because the FT is eff word fun.

Srsly folks, sometimes criticism is meant to be beneficial.

and advising you to nut up and deal with the hand you’ve been dealt so that you can adapt within it and be less effected by changes is advice that some people srsly need. it is not telling you to sit down and shut up about problems, it is telling you to stop mewling just because something isn’t exactly the way princess wants it.

nakoda.4213:

and advising you to nut up and deal with the hand you’ve been dealt

Translation: Sit down and shut up, no matter how bad things get.

Not going to happen, you might as well quit your preaching. This skill does not fulfill the end to which it was designed, along with many others which are frequently discussed on the forums. And I will stop saying so when they are no longer inadequate and not a second sooner. Maybe you should ‘nut up’ and stand for something instead of expecting everyone else to back down.

What’s so “inadequate” about the Flamethrower?

I’ve completed just about every dungeon path with it (dragging my feet going back to CM) and get 50+ badges an hour in WvW with it.

People have already explained what the issue is with Flame Jet. It’s just the auto-targeting mechanic locking onto your target poorly.

Just turn it off. Problem solved.

Phineas Poe.3018:

What’s so “inadequate” about the Flamethrower?

I’ve completed just about every dungeon path with it (dragging my feet going back to CM) and get 50+ badges an hour in WvW with it.

People have already explained what the issue is with Flame Jet. It’s just the auto-targeting mechanic locking onto your target poorly.

Just turn it off. Problem solved.

It’s not just the auto-targetting, it’s a bug with certain camera set ups against a moving target with conal attacks, regardless of whether you have the auto-targeting on or not. I use the ‘real action combat’ camera setup if you’re familiar with it, and I can’t use the flame thrower at all, but it still affects others who don’t use this mod and so far as I can tell nobody has found the exact cause, though a lot of people have suggested it may have to do with mouse set up. And even if this bug were fixed, unless you’re facing the perfect sized and situated group the flame throwers damage is mediocore at best.

I still don’t see how adapting and making the best you can with what you’ve got equates to “sitting down and shutting up”

this thread is titled “flame jet still broken” …

flame jet is not broken, period. this isn’t a debate. there is no camera bug. there is only user-interface error. sorry if youbdont like the truth.

this thread is built upon the illusion that the ft has a broken mechanic that causes misses.

that illusion is false.

the problem with misses is with you and how you are using the ft.

if you are unwilling to listen to the advice of the numerous players in this threawho use the ft without any problem at all, then the fault is yours.

no discussion necessary. my attitude is as it is because i have lost patience being nice about it. I have been involved in this argument for months. they fixed the miss issues in february.

deal with it.

I don’t see why certain people are being so kitten the OP. He has an issue with the skill he would like to be addressed. There are others that agree with him so there is at least some merit at looking into the issue. True there are ways on the user end to mitigate said issue. Nonetheless the OP is looking at ways to help improve in his eyes the performance of the skill in question. You might not agree with his issue, so just state it and move on instead of attacking him as a player.

In the end this is just a suggestion to devs to fix a perceived problem. It is ultimately up to the the devs whether to ignore or go along with the suggestion. I mean at worst the devs will do nothing and carry on, but at best the devs could improve the way the skill works which benefits everyone so it is worth a shot. Attacking a poster over their suggestion on the matter surely isn’t productive pretty borderline trollish.

Flame jet often has problems with hitting targets even very slightly above or below, that I don’t see a much on other cone attacks.

This isnt about trolling a suggestion, it is about the spread of misinformation.

Flame jet is not broken.

Advice has been given on how to propetly use the flame jet without missing.

This advice is ignored as “elitist” and “condescending”.

Listen to the advice.

nakoda.4213:

This isnt about trolling a suggestion, it is about the spread of misinformation.

Flame jet is not broken.

Advice has been given on how to propetly use the flame jet without missing.

This advice is ignored as “elitist” and “condescending”.

Listen to the advice.

The only advice I’ve seen from you is to turn off auto-aim. By auto-aim I’m assuming you mean auto-target? i.e. you don’t have a target selected, you use a skill, and it auto-targets the closest guy (or something like that). Is that what you mean?

Because I have that option disabled and my FT#1 often misses due to slight elevation changes.

there is “auto target” and there is “promote skill target”

each behave differently.

this is also the <<incoming hyperbole>> one millionth thread on this topic, and I have posted the same information in every topic. you will even find information in my guide on it.

i have promote skill target off and i have auto target on. you can still use the ft with any combination of the settings.

if you have them on, and have difficulty, try turning them off.

what do you want? a big friendly red button that does the work for you?

the FT is a manual weapon, no matter how you toggle your settings. You still have to be proactive with your camera control and consider camera control to be no different than an FPS. just because this is an MMO does not mean that being able to aim is a useless skill.

this same debate is going on in the sPvP forums.

and, as i’ve mentioned before, I have in numerous other places acknowledged the problems with the FT, slope targeting included.

however, that is an issue with the terrain and the mechanics of the camera itself, NOT THE FLAMETHROWER.