Guild Wars 2

I have a question,

Is Incendiary Powder still a must have with the FT after the altering of the trait?

its still extra damage at only 10 trait points and the trait line itself gives 100 power. And it applies the burn on your first hit, where as the FT 1 skill applies burn on the last tick. so it give an even burn from start to finish. FT is primarily a power based weapon, not condition so it was never really a big issue to start with, just a way to squeeze out some extra damage.
Seems just as good as it ever was.

now we all get to wonder why it isn’t a condition based weapon.

I disagree about the weapon being a power weapon vs. a condi weapon, but that is entirely another discussion.

Its simple, its a weapon that applies one condition, a condition that only stacks time not potency. so the damage will be the same whether you apply one 5sec burn every 5sec or ten 5sec buns every 5sec.

If you do want it to be a condition weapon there are traits and sigils that can make it very effective for applying bleeds and even poison along with your burn.

Lightsbane.9012:

now we all get to wonder why it isn’t a condition based weapon.

Frankly we should probably just count our hidden blessings, before they make it impotent against certain AI mobs and unable to damage objects at all. At least we get the weird benefit of being able to critical hit with fire. Which can even cause fire on critical hits! Or bleeding for that matter.

Just try to think of it as more like a belt-fed automatic shotgun firing cartridges filled with splinters of burning magnesium or something.

I’m a member of the FT-is-both-condition-and-power-weapon club. It does only apply 1 condition (burn) and stacking it only adds duration. However, FT deals more damage to burning foes, so keeping the burns rolling increases the straight damage. Also, its #5 skill is a blind. That’s 2 conditions that benefit from +condition duration. It fires very fast, offering multiple crit chances, which makes it ideal for stacking precision & +crit damage. And with such frequent crits, it synergizes well with bleed-on-crit type sigils and traits like Incendiary Powder, Precise Sights, and Sharpshooter. And if you’re able to stack bleeds this way, they’ll benefit from +condition damage. Which also benefits those burns we talked about stacking. And burning is the highest damage condition in the game.

So let’s recap. FT benefits from:
+ condition duration
+ condition damage
precision
+ crit damage

This is why I run a combo or Berserker/Rampager gear with FT. They all add to its effectiveness.

galandor.1059:

I have a question,

Is Incendiary Powder still a must have with the FT after the altering of the trait?

Do you have any better alternatives?

More permanent burning means Flame Jet does more DPS. Where else would you put the other 10 points?

Seras.5702:

And burning is the highest damage condition in the game.

I don’t know why people say this.

It has the highest base damage of conditions in the game of 328 at level 80. But adding to that is only factored by 25% of your Condition Damage value. So if you have 2000 Condition Damage in your gear, you’re only adding another 500 damage to your burn. Compare that to how much more damage you gain adding Power and Critical Damage in your gear.

The Flamethrower scales best with Power—specifically due to Flame Blast. The numbers have proven this time and time again. I don’t know why people continue to waste their money buying Rampager gear, especially since your stacks are just going to be overwritten by somebody else in Rabid gear in your PvE groups.

If you need Condition Duration, eat Rare Veggie Pizza and be done with it. Don’t waste a significant amount of damage trying to eke another second of burn wearing Giver’s weapons. What a waste!

Ah but Phineas burning scales best with condition damage out of all the conditions

i was going to make a new thread but seen as this one is about flamethrower well i just post it here. I am new to engineer (lvl 55) i like the flamethrower, don’t like bomb kits , i hate ground targeting since i am so slow, anyway i dont know what to do when i reach 80. Should i get Knights gear and try to build a tanky flamethrower build (i have seen good ones around) or should i go more into conditions with prec/toughness/cond damage gear? I suppose if i go the condition way i should use pistols, knights with rifle. I like also the rifle CC and escape ability #4. Dont know what to do, my main focus would be wvw and pve, dungeons. What is more viable?

Incendiary Powder is really not necessary at all. Flame Jet burns once at the end of the cycle. If you follow flame jet with Air Blast, you’ll burn for another 3 seconds. I see too few engineers using Napalm, which is really your burn bread and butter, and even with mobile mobs will probably proc more burns than IP will.

Jay.4837:

Incendiary Powder is really not necessary at all. Flame Jet burns once at the end of the cycle. If you follow flame jet with Air Blast, you’ll burn for another 3 seconds. I see too few engineers using Napalm, which is really your burn bread and butter, and even with mobile mobs will probably proc more burns than IP will.

The problem is that targets move.

If you’re dealing with bosses, Napalm and Air Blast is not enough. Try sustain burning on that guy in Arah exp without Incendiary Powder and see what happens.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Jay.4837:

Incendiary Powder is really not necessary at all. Flame Jet burns once at the end of the cycle. If you follow flame jet with Air Blast, you’ll burn for another 3 seconds. I see too few engineers using Napalm, which is really your burn bread and butter, and even with mobile mobs will probably proc more burns than IP will.

The problem is that targets move.

If you’re dealing with bosses, Napalm and Air Blast is not enough. Try sustain burning on that guy in Arah exp without Incendiary Powder and see what happens.

Hence the heavy synergy with Rifle. High volumes of Immobilize from a net turret and Rifle will help keep things still while you hit them with flame jet. Though I must say that sort of build style makes the voice in my head scream “just Roll 30/30/0/0/10, put on your zerker set, and spam grenades!”. Honestly I can’t really say the FT is much use outside of might stacking off Enhance Performance (or H.G.H.) and Juggernaut and using it to tank damage lika bauwse.

Obscure One.4357:

Hence the heavy synergy with Rifle. High volumes of Immobilize from a net turret and Rifle will help keep things still while you hit them with flame jet.

Unless…

1. Bosses have Defiant, which then you don’t do crap.
2. You prefer to use Pistol/Pistol, which actually has Blowtorch to improve burning a lot better than wasting a utility slot using Net Turret or focusing on the Rifle. Which gives you two sigils to boost your Flamethrower instead of one.

Obscure One.4357:

Though I must say that sort of build style makes the voice in my head scream “just Roll 30/30/0/0/10, put on your zerker set, and spam grenades!”. Honestly I can’t really say the FT is much use outside of might stacking off Enhance Performance (or H.G.H.) and Juggernaut and using it to tank damage lika bauwse.

I don’t see why anything I do should scream rolling 30 points in Explosives. I’m probably one of the biggest opponents to wielding the Grenade Kit “just because.” I find the Flamethrower a lot more fun and structured my Engineer around it for that reason. What “use” is there to the Flamethrower? A Fire field, 200 Toughness, and a non-self CC knockback on a 12-second cooldown for starters.

You guys feel free to do whatever you want. I’m just telling you that the numbers don’t add up when gearing for Condition Damage, and Incendiary Powder is a better trait investment than any alternative. I asked the question before and no one answered it: with 30 points in Firearms for Juggernaut, Target the Maimed, Fireforged Trigger, Precise Sights, and Sharpshooter … and with 30 points in Alchemy for Deadly Mixture, Energy Conversion Matrix, and Cleansing Formula … what do you gain putting 10 points elsewhere?

10 points in Tools gives you Speedy Kits, Static Discharge, or Kit Refinement. Incendiary Powder > Fire Aura, you already have good Swiftness with Drop Stimulant + Elixir B, and Static Discharge doesn’t get a lot of use without gadgets. 10% Critical Damage sounds appealing, but it’s not as significant as one might think compared to sustained 10% damage increase to Flame Jet and 100 Power.

10 points in Inventions gives you Low Health Response, Protective Shield, or Energized Armor. I’ll take a 10% sustained damage increase over 5% Toughness added to Power or Regeneration/Protection given the FT is tanky enough as-is.

Instead of lambasting Incendiary Powder, tell me what you would take instead, and show me how that’s a more viable option.

I see a lot of nay-sayers around here that don’t actually provide anything of substance. It’s easy being the dissenting opinion.

Linc.6834:

Ah but Phineas burning scales best with condition damage out of all the conditions

But it cannot be stacked. Confusion can do over 2000 damage per skill activation. Bleeds do more than 1.5K DPS with the right build on top of your direct damage.

When have you ever seen Burning hit for 1.5K? Never. Even with 25 stacks of Might and full Rabid gear you won’t. In fact, the difference in Burning damage between Berserker and Rabid is literally a 300 difference.

You really think an increase of 300 damage in your burns is better than a 60%+ Critical Damage boost to your Flame Blast?

Phineas I feel as though you may have misunderstood my assessment. The FT is a very solid build choice, and putting up to 20 points in that Explosives trait line is plenty worth it (my FT build is 20/30/0/10/10) to boost it’s effectiveness from Incendiary. My point was if I’m trying to squeeze out damage my thoughts are why am I not just hucking grenades on a zerk build? Spam tastic mind numbing DPS that it may be, there’s no more damaging option for the class. With a FT I’m better off ignoring boosting DPS for survivability options granted by the toughness or inventions trait lines with a spare 10 points, as even with the compounding impact of gaining 100 power and burning which gives my FT 10% more damage on Flame Jet, it doesn’t hit anywhere near the damage numbers of my grenades. It’s mostly out of a sense of personal choice in seeing mid range damage and sort of letting it be mid range while I focus on just staying alive long enough for the condition damage to take it’s toll. That being said I did my due diligence in making the FT a hard hitter with my FT build and with as much might I could pump into it with Enhance Performance and Juggernaut (which takes a fair amount of practice to master the rotation), it was bested by just swallowing my pride, putting those last 10 points in Explosives instead of Alchemy (30/30/0/0/10) and spamming grenades.

I fully enjoy my FT, but from where I stand, specing it for more damage is < Grenades in the current state of the game, hence my comments.

ft without deadly mixture is not a “dps” ft build. incendiary powder and EP are also necessary to the full “dps” build, thus

20/30/0/20/0

IP/EP;PS(or SD)/FT/JG;FAE/DM

full dps spec power gear (knight, bevausebyounstill need 50% crit)

rifle, ft, elixir s/b, net turret, supply crate.

Obscure One.4357:

My point was if I’m trying to squeeze out damage my thoughts are why am I not just hucking grenades on a zerk build? Spam tastic mind numbing DPS that it may be, there’s no more damaging option for the class. With a FT I’m better off ignoring boosting DPS for survivability options granted by the toughness or inventions trait lines with a spare 10 points, as even with the compounding impact of gaining 100 power and burning which gives my FT 10% more damage on Flame Jet, it doesn’t hit anywhere near the damage numbers of my grenades.

I get what you’re saying.

My point is more that the FT doesn’t need the defensive traits in Inventions. And bolstering the DPS of the Flamethrower is far more important to making it a competitive PvE option to the Grenade Kit.

This is what I am running currently. IDK if I need to make any changes, I have been thinking about switching out the battle sigil for a doom sigil so that I can apply poison consistently to mitigate healing, but idk.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=VV70;2cPVv0L6NQFx0;9;49T-J94;047A;156-5;0S;5Rk06Rk068Vg

copy/paste

Why the Net Turret?

It’s only worth taking unless you’re traited for Sitting Duck.

Additionally, Energy Conversion Matrix (25 in Alchemy) means you do 1% additional damage per boon on you. This is worth a lot more than a 10% increase in Critical Damage. I’d argue it’s a must-have trait, especially for an Engineer build that is replete with boons.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Seras.5702:

And burning is the highest damage condition in the game.

I don’t know why people say this.

…..

You only chose to focus on one thing I said and completely ignored all the other points I made.

…FT deals more damage to burning foes, so keeping the burns rolling increases the straight damage. Also, its #5 skill is a blind. That’s 2 conditions that benefit from +condition duration. It fires very fast, offering multiple crit chances, which makes it ideal for stacking precision & +crit damage. And with such frequent crits, it synergizes well with bleed-on-crit type sigils and traits like Incendiary Powder, Precise Sights, and Sharpshooter. And if you’re able to stack bleeds this way, they’ll benefit from +condition damage….

I’m talking about the utility of having crits proc conditions (bleeds) that do stack and benefit from condition stats. Not to mention the #5 blind having a longer duration. And considering the FT’s lack of range, if you get caught without swiftness and out of range, it’s nice to have bleeds and burns rolling.

Personal Note: I roll with EG & pistol/shield, which means I can toss out poison, blind, confusion, and (ocassionally) retaliation, all of which benefit from the condition stats. These skills aren’t straight damage like FT#2, but cutting a healing enemy’s healing by 30% is mad helpful.

Seras.5702:

You only chose to focus on one thing I said and completely ignored all the other points I made.

Just because I didn’t directly respond to every sentence you wrote, that doesn’t mean I ignored it. I’m just confused why people continue to say that Burning is the highest damage condition in the game when it’s not.

I know what Sharpshooter does. The numbers still don’t add up to where Condition Damage is worth stacking on the Flamethrower over Power and Critical Damage. You really should make a point to track how many more Bleed stacks you’re actually getting with Condition Duration weapons compared to Berserker weapons … and then watch how big Flame Blast crits get with full Berserker gear.

Fair point.

I’ve never been one to crunch the numbers in games. I accept your facts if you’ve done the math. It’s a shame though, because I’d rather have a complex damage system (direct damage, crit procs, rolling conditions, damage boosts based on burns, etc) than “run Zerk.” I don’t play warrior cuz they’re boring. I like the idea of skill/trait synergy. I think my bias is just to avoid being let down.

the FT is a very “tanky” weapon, … get dirty with it, that’s what it’s for. power/toughness first. pre/vita next. cond/crit last.

galandor.1059:

I have a question,

Is Incendiary Powder still a must have with the FT after the altering of the trait?

It’s not a “must have,” especially for group builds since odds are someone else will apply burning to the target. It is pretty amazing for soloing though.

nakoda.4213:

the FT is a very “tanky” weapon, … get dirty with it, that’s what it’s for. power/toughness first. pre/vita next. cond/crit last.

“Tanky-ness” in this game is not overly clear to newer players, epic levels of toughness aren’t as good as having mitigating skills, buffs, traits or passives such as runes are when in any type of combat, dungeons or otherwise.

All the toughness and vitality in the world won’t help you if you can’t add those extra mitigating factors. So if you want to dive in and get your hands dirty, don’t forget to bring a metaphorical towel. Many higher level players that I know are full zerker with minimal V/T but are EXCELLENT at reading the confrontation(animations, movements, timing opponents cool downs), knowing when to move out of combat, and having their dodge-roll mapped to a more convenient location.

Yeah, I wear full Zerker with the Flamethrower in PvE. I’ll slap on Soldier insignia gear if I need the survivability … but I always have Berserker weapons and jewelry on. No exceptions.

It just does too low DPS without it.

In PvP I’ll go with Knight trinket though.

LameFox.6349:

Just try to think of it as more like a belt-fed automatic shotgun firing cartridges filled with splinters of burning magnesium or something.

Who told you my play style?

I mostly like it for everything except Flame jet, but I agree that there’s definitely some problems with it.

Flame Blast/Detonate:

VERY nice burst damage on a ridiculously low cooldown. Granted, it’s slow-moving, and the burst part might not connect due to terrain shenanigans, but it’s still quite powerful.

Air Blast:

Underrated favorite. On a medium cooldown, you’ve got a nearly instant-cast AoE knockback and Projectile reflect.

Smoke Field:
Instant-cast AoE Blind. Great for stomping/covering other conditions.

I personally think that Flame Jet and Napalm still need some work.

As it stands, you need quite a lot of trait points to make the Flame Jet viable, and Napalm’s area of effect is quite small. I’ve seen enemies in PvE and PvP walk through it without taking their second of burning.

Jay.4837:

Incendiary Powder is really not necessary at all. Flame Jet burns once at the end of the cycle. If you follow flame jet with Air Blast, you’ll burn for another 3 seconds. I see too few engineers using Napalm, which is really your burn bread and butter, and even with mobile mobs will probably proc more burns than IP will.

I hear you Jay. I used to think napalm was weak. It’s decent if you got immobilization, but I’m just using it for a combo field only, and with PvE mobs in Orr events omggg the stacks of might you get from blast finishing within the field. I really need Aegis or stability to test it effectively though. Would love it if it was a pool as opposed to a strip. I think it’d be super scary to opponents that way.

Daigle.8497:

I’ve seen enemies in PvE and PvP walk through it without taking their second of burning.

I think it’s due to being so narrow. Since it applies 1s per pulse I assume it’s also one pulse per second, and is probably easily (though completely by chance) crossed between pulses.

They should probably just make it a normal field really. Walls are okay for stuff like reflecting and tripping people over, but ticks of damage/conditions seems poorly thought out. Unless it can just tick faster, but I was under the impression everything updates like that, which would make it potentially very complicated to do.

Daigle.8497:

As it stands, you need quite a lot of trait points to make the Flame Jet viable, and Napalm’s area of effect is quite small. I’ve seen enemies in PvE and PvP walk through it without taking their second of burning.

Napalm’s area of effect is small, but it’s a 10-second long Fire field. AFAIK, that’s tied for the longest one in the game with an unbuffed Hallowed Ground. Master of Consecrations makes it last 12 seconds, but it also has more than double (if not triple) the cooldown. And a weapon skill? Versus a utility slot?

I feel sometimes Engineers don’t realize how good we have it. A 10 second Fire field on a reasonable cooldown … With a Hammer Guardian in your group, that’s a lot of Might.

I very rarely use it for its Burning damage.

Also guys, keep in mind that while Flame Jet’s damage is mediocre, like Elementalists we are not intended to stand there and auto attack. Take advantage of the fact that Deadly Mixture buffs the Elixir Gun’s damage as well and integrate it into your skill rotation.

If I have a GS+Hammer Guardian in my group using Binding Blade → Ring of Warding, my Napalm → Acid Bomb → Flame Blast → Elixir U + Flame Jet x3 → Flame Blast rotation does A LOT of damage.

Acid Bomb alone was hitting for over 2.5K a second.

We facerolled through Molten Facility last night with two Guardians, an Elementalist, a Ranger, and myself. No Warriors. No Mesmers.

Right, I actually forgot to type up the awesome benefits of both Napalm and Flame Jet, actually.

10 Seconds of fire field on an Engineer is excellent, too! If we stand on it and start activating our huge assortment of blast and projectile finishers, we can use the field both offensively and defensively, by stacking might and/or adding projectile burns to our target.

Depending on my build, I personally use it to supplement the might stacks, or to hit players that can’t move. (murder downed players in wvw, in conjunction with Acid bomb as well)

that said, I still hope that its width was increased a bit more, or pulsed even slightly more than 1 second of burning per tick.

Flame jet: with an attack rate of 4 hits a second, you’re likely to trigger any on-crit effects (we have lots) we have. Highly effective if we’re stacking those.

Daigle.8497:

Daigle.8497:

As it stands, you need quite a lot of trait points to make the Flame Jet viable, and Napalm’s area of effect is quite small. I’ve seen enemies in PvE and PvP walk through it without taking their second of burning.

Napalm’s area of effect is small, but it’s a 10-second long Fire field. AFAIK, that’s tied for the longest one in the game with an unbuffed Hallowed Ground. Master of Consecrations makes it last 12 seconds, but it also has more than double (if not triple) the cooldown. And a weapon skill? Versus a utility slot?

I feel sometimes Engineers don’t realize how good we have it. A 10 second Fire field on a reasonable cooldown … With a Hammer Guardian in your group, that’s a lot of Might.

I very rarely use it for its Burning damage.