Guild Wars 2

I am a heavy user of the flamethrower, and I’ve been looking through some other people’s specs trying to improve my own.

I’ve noticed a lot of people think Precise Sights is worth while, especially over the other tier 1 traits, but it really is a waste of a major trait slot, and here is why.

1 stack of vulnerability is a 1% damage increase. If every hit was a critical hit that would equate to 0.5% more damage, but critical strike, especially for flamethrower specs is never 100%. Critical hits chance should be in the range of 30% to 55% depending on gear choice and upgrades, so for arguments sake, lets take the average ceiling and we get 43%, now apply that to the 1% damage increase, and the 50% proc rate and you get a damage increase of 0.22% damage increase…which lets be honest is as good as 0.

Sitting Duck is a better alternative to Precise Sight. Net Shot has a 20% uptime if you use it properly, and this major trait will effective increase your damage by 1%. That is nearly 5x more than the misguiding trait Precise Sight.

Another trait I see people take is Napalm Specialist…First, I think there is some confusion, Flamethrower is not about condition damage or extending burns. Burn duration is extended by keeping Flame Jet on the target at all times. Also since Explosives is rarely maximized with a flamethrower spec, you don’t get the additional 30% condition duration. To top it off, this major trait is only worth while if you can double your condition duration, because the burn from flame jet lasts 1 second, and burn ticks every 1 second, so unless you can get it up to two seconds it isn’t worth it….though in all honestly, anything that extends burn damage especially to forgo power is a waste of an attribute/upgrade because the target should never stop burning if Flame Jets are always on, in addition a majority of flamethrower damage is power based, not condition based. Also don’t bank on Incendiary Powder from the explosive tree for the reason I just mentioned, and also the proc rate.

There is usually 10 floater points left over after maximizing two trees when coming up with a Flamethrower spec, some people put it in Explosives for the additional 100 power, then take Incendiary Powder, which again in my opinion is a waste.

I think seasoned Engineers can look past Explosives and put those points in Inventions, taking the Energized Armor. This effective gains them roughly 50 power, depending on gear stats and quality, but also adds an additional 100 toughness and 100 healing, for a 50 power trade off, and 10% condition duration (which isn’t all that helpful.)

Inventions traitline gives 100 healing, not 100 vitality.

But I do agree with most of them.

The duration of the vulnerability is 5s, that’s simply far too low to stack properly.
Burn duration? Your burns are already short duration. What a waste.

Nice catch, I’ll correct that.

Except vulnerability effects your target.
Add 4 other people into the mix and it becomes considerably better.

Each additional person hitting the target increases that.

Zahdane.4029:

Except vulnerability effects your target.
Add 4 other people into the mix and it becomes considerably better.

Each additional person hitting the target increases that.

I am assuming you are referring to a dungeon. So there are additional factors, like the damage from your friends are equal or better than yours. But that’s not the case, I am sure some will be lower and some will be higher. So to simplify this equation, we will say the damage of the 4 people with you is equal to the damage you do.

If that is true you would need a crit rating of over 40% to make Precise Sights equal Sitting Duck, and keep in mind this is for a flamethrower spec, not a rifle spec. So what is the likelihood of that when you lose a large percent of crit from equipping the flamethrower, assuming the weapon is an exotic berserker weapon?

What other major traits are you taking in the firearms line? I’ve been trying to tweak my build focused around the flame thrower and I’m liking the looks of Juggernaut in the last slot but can’t decide on the 20 point trait. I assume Fireforged Trigger is preferred considering the heavy use of the flamethrower? I’m also a rifle kitten, so it’s hard not to take Hair Trigger.

Your math is based in wrong assumptions. You’d be right if it increased the damage of -only- the very next hit by 1%, but it’s a vuln stack. You’re buffing ALL of your hits for the next 5 seconds, PLUS those of anyone else who happens to be hitting it. Any crappy flamethrower spec (aka mine with my crap gear) is spewing stacks like candy, and even one stack equals Sitting Duck over time. More often than not it’s 2-3 stacks. For the whole group. Sitting Duck is for assassin builds or when you aren’t putting out the sheer volume of crits that a flamer does.

I also think Incendiary Powder is better than you give it credit for, but you make a good point on the chunk of stats you can get without it.

I can’t speak for flamethrower builds, but vulnerability from grenade builds is absolutely huge. I typically maintain 15-20 stacks at full spam, which is 15-20% more damage—great solo, even better for groups.

Haette.2701:

Your math is based in wrong assumptions. You’d be right if it increased the damage of -only- the very next hit by 1%, but it’s a vuln stack. You’re buffing ALL of your hits for the next 5 seconds, PLUS those of anyone else who happens to be hitting it. Any crappy flamethrower spec (aka mine with my crap gear) is spewing stacks like candy, and even one stack equals Sitting Duck over time. More often than not it’s 2-3 stacks. For the whole group. Sitting Duck is for assassin builds or when you aren’t putting out the sheer volume of crits that a flamer does.

I also think Incendiary Powder is better than you give it credit for, but you make a good point on the chunk of stats you can get without it.

The invulnerability from Precise Sights is a 2 second duration. The same duration as the net. The flamethrower flame jet is 5 attacks a second.

For 2-3 stacks with 100% up time you would need around +40% crit rating. Spikes can seem misleading like a de facto normality, but if you truly can retain that stack, even 1 stack with 100% up time, I would say Precise Sights works best for your gear.

But Precise Sights is more than likely not best for people in the vit/tough/power WvW gear.

Err, sorry. It completely slipped my mind that most of my vulnerability is from Steel-Packed Powder, which doesn’t work with flamethrower. You’re most likely right about Precise Sights—my bad.

Weirwynn.2390:

I can’t speak for flamethrower builds, but vulnerability from grenade builds is absolutely huge. I typically maintain 15-20 stacks at full spam, which is 15-20% more damage—great solo, even better for groups.

That’s a different trait doing that. It’s pretty nuts, yeah.

That trait is actually also where I got the mistaken 5-second figure, thank you for catching that. It’s still a far better boost than it’s being credited simply by having a duration at all, and -especially- because it helps the whole team.

Suds.7235:

What other major traits are you taking in the firearms line? I’ve been trying to tweak my build focused around the flame thrower and I’m liking the looks of Juggernaut in the last slot but can’t decide on the 20 point trait. I assume Fireforged Trigger is preferred considering the heavy use of the flamethrower? I’m also a rifle kitten, so it’s hard not to take Hair Trigger.

I stopped giving out my build, mostly because it changes frequently based on where my current stats fall, and right now I am in a transition of pow/tough/vit to a full exotic berserker’s setup.

My suggestion are posted in following thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Post-Your-Build-Thread/206665

And they are based off the gear I was using as a fresh 80 in WvW. But the major traits are still applicable. As for what is not listed, its your choice, even if you wanted Precise Sights, I am just cautioning people that want to maximize damage to do the math first to see if the trait is applicable given their current stats.

I will say, this thread has got me thinking of switching out of my power stacking build in an attempt to maximize vulnerability stacks. I feel I am going to have to complete my berserker’s set, and trinkets first to make it viable.

“To top it off, this major trait is only worth while if you can double your condition duration, because the burn from flame jet lasts 1 second, and burn ticks every 1 second, so unless you can get it up to two seconds it isn’t worth it”

^this is wrong, for example if you have 1 second burn then increase your burn duration by 25% you will see the duration on the tooltip now listed as 1.25 seconds. If you increase burn duration by only 10% instead, the tooltip will still list 1 second duration although I suspect the actual duration will be 1.1 seconds and the rounding is only for tooltips.

also as someone said your vulnerability math was off as well, but imo vulnerability is ridiculously underpowered like 80% of the time that you see it on a skill/trait/rune (in sPvP at least, i guess it’d be a lot better in dungeons or WvW).

AlphaDuck.7592:

“To top it off, this major trait is only worth while if you can double your condition duration, because the burn from flame jet lasts 1 second, and burn ticks every 1 second, so unless you can get it up to two seconds it isn’t worth it”

^this is wrong, for example if you have 1 second burn then increase your burn duration by 25% you will see the duration on the tooltip now listed as 1.25 seconds. If you increase burn duration by only 10% instead, the tooltip will still list 1 second duration although I suspect the actual duration will be 1.1 seconds and the rounding is only for tooltips.

If burn ticks every 1 second, and you have a 1.25 second duration, how many ticks on burn do you expect?

The point I was trying to make is that quarter of a second is inconsequential if flame jet is constantly on the target, and even if it drops off you won’t get that extra tick of burn anyway.

^this is wrong, for example if you have 1 second burn then increase your burn duration by 25% you will see the duration on the tooltip now listed as 1.25 seconds. If you increase burn duration by only 10% instead, the tooltip will still list 1 second duration although I suspect the actual duration will be 1.1 seconds and the rounding is only for tooltips.

Actually its right. While the duration does increase as you say the damage only tics once a second so it doesn’t matter if it lasts 1.99 seconds. It has to last 2 seconds before it will increase the damage actually done.

MuteLunatic.9087:

Actually its right. While the duration does increase as you say the damage only tics once a second so it doesn’t matter if it lasts 1.99 seconds. It has to last 2 seconds before it will increase the damage actually done.

This is true for all three of the damaging conditions: Bleed, Burn and Poison. You need to get to that next threshold in order to get that next tick of damage. Duration also stacks additively. Take each duration increase, multiply it by the base, and then add it to the base.

I use precise sights but I am a gadget man with 55-60% crit chance. combine that with Analyze and I get 10-14 of vulnerability ever 30 seconds. however you make a great point on the net thing. that could net me 5% every 6 seconds.

You have given me something to think about.

Thanks for the info

I always assumed the point of taking napalm specialist was to combine it with incendiary powder, with that you’d only have to get incendiary to trigger twice in a flame burst plus the end burning will net you an extra second and tick of damage from it. Also incendiary ammo benefits from it regardless.

MuteLunatic.9087:

Actually its right. While the duration does increase as you say the damage only tics once a second so it doesn’t matter if it lasts 1.99 seconds. It has to last 2 seconds before it will increase the damage actually done.

Oops, ya it looks like thats right. Thanks.

20 burn duration and incendiary power are great traits. Having flamejet always on is nothing but unreal scenario crafting exspecially when attaing multiple targets those traits are straight out huge dmg buffs for any condition spec.

Hey thanks for the post. I did reevaluate my build and oddly enough after I tried sitting duck I tied knee shot. I love it. It gave me more time to sit still and exploit my scoop trait.

Thanks again for the post.

AlphaDuck.7592:

MuteLunatic.9087:

Actually its right. While the duration does increase as you say the damage only tics once a second so it doesn’t matter if it lasts 1.99 seconds. It has to last 2 seconds before it will increase the damage actually done.

Oops, ya it looks like thats right. Thanks.

Wrong. Burning stacks in duration.
Say if your first flame jet does 1.25 burning in 1 second, your second flame jet stacks to it after the first burning tick to make it 1.50 burning. By the end of the 4th flame jet, you get 1 extra burning tick.
Couple this with napalm specialist (20% burn duration) and the condition duration increase from explosives in general you will be looking at 1 extra tick every 4 flame jets averagely. Also, your burning duration stacks with other player’s burning duration. On paper.
In practice, it may indeed not be that practical.