Guild Wars 2

Here are two problems I see with the engineer class as a whole:

1) Flamethrower is the worst kit, yet almost unanimously the first kit that new engineers gravitate towards.
2) If you want to be helpful with damage, you have no choice but to take grenades. Period.

There are two reasons to take this kit:

Incendiary Ammo – Great burning. However, the trait really does this for you already.

Air Blast – Great CC. Comparable to mesmer greatsword 5.

The problem is, no one wants to use this kit the way you should. To be effective with it, you need to pop in, blow air blast/Smoke Vent and pop right back out. Trying to deal damage with this is futile in comparison to other options. That feels really wrong. When I take the Juggernaut trait, I want to be a real juggernaut.

Also, This kit has way too many options, bad and good, for burning. Burning enters a queue to do it’s damage. It’s not like bleeding. More options for burning is BAD. Instead, this kit should have one decent and spammable option (skill 1) and one powerful burn (tool belt).

Here’s some suggestions:

Flame Jet: Burn foes. 100-300 damage. Burning 1s (100-500 damage each application). Applies 4 times in two seconds.

Reasoning

It feels very weird to only have the last hit on this skill cause burning. It’s much more satisfying to have every single hit burn your foe.

Flame Blast: Ground targeted. Increased damage on blast to 1200-1900. Trail does no damage. This is now a blast finisher. Also causes a stack of bleeding (500-1000 damage over 10 seconds). Recharge 12 seconds.

Reasoning

Ground targeted skills are amazingly useful and the damage on this skill is seriously lacking. It would also give some of the flavor that grenade kit has to this kit. The damage on this skill is currently horrible, yet it’s the only way to damage foes. This being a blast finisher allows napalm to be used more skillfully. The bleed is to allow for some more damage over time that isn’t just burning.

Napalm: Circle. Radius 240. Does not cause burning. Instead it deals 200-500 damage per second someone is inside the field. Causes crippled while in the field.

Reasoning

No one will use this to create fire projectiles and there are two few good in combat options for blast finishers for engineers. This being a circle makes it a bit easier to be effective with this skill and makes it a legitimate way to deal damage to foes. This is also a melee kit that has no good options for snare built into the kit.

OR

Napalm: Wall. Now burns up enemy projectiles that cross it. Damage remains the same but again: Doesn’t cause burning. Causes direct damage. Causes a longer cripple if you cross the field.

Reasoning

This is a defensive version of the last skill. Cripple is increased since it’s less likely anyone will run through a wall, although it can stop fleeing foes.

Smoke Vent: This is now a blast finisher. Deals 200-500 damage.

Reasoning

Works well with napalm and helps stack more might for this kit’s damage.

Teldo is playing at top level with the FT. So I guess it cannot be that bad.

Lupanic.6502:

Teldo is playing at top level with the FT. So I guess it cannot be that bad.

I’ve seen it. It’s horrible. It’s three horrible utility skills with random traits.

Saw a really old version of the build with Rocket Boots, Slick Shoes, Flamethrower and Elixir H. Ignore that part.

The way to use this atm is as a utility kit, which doesn’t feel right.

FT is not an damage kit. It gives you condition damage and utililty. in the right hands it works well. Look at teldo streams he is able to handle 1vs3 against top player. He is chain killing BM ranger. Decap vs 2.

FT is not that bad.

Lupanic.6502:

FT is not an damage kit. It gives you condition damage and utililty. in the right hands it works well. Look at teldo streams he is able to handle 1vs3 against top player. He is chain killing BM ranger. Decap vs 2.

FT is not that bad.

I saw his other FT build. It’s a condition spike build. He’s using it so that he can go pistol shield instead of pistol pistol. That’s great and all, but is that really how a flamethrower should be? Read my post again. It’s not about this being useless. It’s about it not acting as it should and having mutliple skills that do nearly nothing.

Watch this stream: http://www.twitch.tv/teldoo/b/401770428

He never uses skill 2. Ever. Skill 1 he only uses to get damage ready for a mesmer portal. Same with skill 4. In the end, it did jack.

In short: Yes. You can use flamethrower, but the way you use it is completely unsatisfying and the way you want to use it is completely useless.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Lupanic.6502:

FT is not an damage kit. It gives you condition damage and utililty. in the right hands it works well. Look at teldo streams he is able to handle 1vs3 against top player. He is chain killing BM ranger. Decap vs 2.

FT is not that bad.

I saw his other FT build. It’s a condition spike build. He’s using it so that he can go pistol shield instead of pistol pistol. That’s great and all, but is that really how a flamethrower should be? Read my post again. It’s not about this being useless. It’s about it not acting as it should and having mutliple skills that do nearly nothing.

Watch this stream: http://www.twitch.tv/teldoo/b/401770428

He never uses skill 2. Ever. Skill 1 he only uses to get damage ready for a mesmer portal. Same with skill 4. In the end, it did jack.

In short: Yes. You can use flamethrower, but the way you use it is completely unsatisfying and the way you want to use it is completely useless.

Look at :
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Nakoda-s-FT-S-TPvP-Guide-Updated-05-07-13/first#post1986036

We have many possibilities for the FT.

It is completely unsatisfying for you. From my point of view it is fine and I do not want a new overpowered build for the engineer with a cool kit so that every winning team joiner is now playing engineer instead of thief/ele or ranger.

if you can’t handle the heat, put down the flamethrower and go back to playing with your grenades.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Lupanic.6502:

Teldo is playing at top level with the FT.

I’ve seen it. It’s horrible. It’s three horrible utility skills with random traits.

I’m sure I’m not alone here in saying: … Wat?

Chaith.8256:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Lupanic.6502:

Teldo is playing at top level with the FT.

I’ve seen it. It’s horrible. It’s three horrible utility skills with random traits.

I’m sure I’m not alone here in saying: … Wat?

Saw a really old version of the build. Ignore that part.

Look at :
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Nakoda-s-FT-S-TPvP-Guide-Updated-05-07-13/first#post1986036

We have many possibilities for the FT.

It is completely unsatisfying for you. From my point of view it is fine and I do not want a new overpowered build for the engineer with a cool kit so that every winning team joiner is now playing engineer instead of thief/ele or ranger.

…Those are pretty all over the place. Not to mention the damage on the ones going for damage aren’t even close to Grenades. The ones for support aren’t even close to bomb kit and elixir gun. That’s really what’s wrong with flamethrower. It’s a master of none kit and it shows.

Lupanic.6502:

FT is not an damage kit. It gives you condition damage and utililty.

So and so. I use it in PVE on my full berserker engineer dealing over 4000 damage. If people should say it is not as powerful as a Warrior, they should know that besides having a greater range, I can move while firing and constantly lead monster to the wall of fire I have created. And that Wall of fire damages for another 500/tick. Napalm every few seconds and I’m good to go.

However to be completely honest. In order to be worthwhile there should be two improvements:

1) the direct damage should be increased by 30%.
2) The range should be increased from 450 to 600

JubeiTM.5763:

Lupanic.6502:

FT is not an damage kit. It gives you condition damage and utililty.

So and so. I use it in PVE on my full berserker engineer dealing over 4000 damage. If people should say it is not as powerful as a Warrior, they should know that besides having a greater range, I can move while firing and constantly lead monster to the wall of fire I have created. And that Wall of fire damages for another 500/tick. Napalm every few seconds and I’m good to go.

However to be completely honest. In order to be worthwhile there should be two improvements:

1) the direct damage should be increased by 30%.
2) The range should be increased from 450 to 600

Warriors deal 40k damage with a six second recharge skill. Grenades can hit for 3k every 1 second from 1,500 range + condition damage. That’s not even using grenade barrage.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Warriors deal 40k damage with a six second recharge skill. Grenades can hit for 3k every 1 second from 1,500 range + condition damage. That’s not even using grenade barrage.

So the title of this thread could also be “every weapon except GS is worthless for Warriors.” You’re trying to make an argument by stating the highest-dps spec makes all other kits/weapons awful.

Also, the purpose of Napalm isn’t for high damage. It’s to maintain burning for the +10% dmg from FT#1. I’d love to see a blast finisher on FT too, but with the #2 having a 6s (iirc) cooldown, that’d be OP. The kit has burning, high damage-low cooldown skill, aoe blind, knockback, fire field. Seems fine to me.

Also, it has great range than warrior GS and it doesn’t require the enemy to stand still while you channel the skill.

Final Point: Flamethrower just looks awesome.

Seras.5702:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Warriors deal 40k damage with a six second recharge skill. Grenades can hit for 3k every 1 second from 1,500 range + condition damage. That’s not even using grenade barrage.

So the title of this thread could also be “every weapon except GS is worthless for Warriors.” You’re trying to make an argument by stating the highest-dps spec makes all other kits/weapons awful.

Also, the purpose of Napalm isn’t for high damage. It’s to maintain burning for the +10% dmg from FT#1. I’d love to see a blast finisher on FT too, but with the #2 having a 6s (iirc) cooldown, that’d be OP. The kit has burning, high damage-low cooldown skill, aoe blind, knockback, fire field. Seems fine to me.

Also, it has great range than warrior GS and it doesn’t require the enemy to stand still while you channel the skill.

PvE Enemies don’t move that much. A dead enemy makes your team rally, so damage is king in PvE. You are not that much safer from 425 range. Skill 2 is not powerful by any means. If it doesn’t critical, which is common, it’ll do about 2000 + 1000 damage (3000). If you really spec for it, 4k-4.5k total. That’s not high damage at all. Fire field would be great if we had a decent blast finisher. Burning stacks duration, not intensity. More burning delays strong burning. The kit naturally works against itself by doing that.

Final Point: Flamethrower just looks awesome.

I could agree more, and that’s why this kit makes me weep. Beautiful hunk of junk =/.

Uh, if there is a thing we don’t lack, those are blast finishers. And they’re also one of my main forms of support in pve. 12 stacks of area might every 30s – i lack the trait for faster recharge on shield – thanks to magnetic inversion/acid bomb/healing turret detonation/rifle turret detonation. I don’t even have to place the turrets near the field, since it depends on my position and not on theirs.

Albeit, i find that flamethrower indeed lacks in damage. And could use some reworking on the autoattack, since they nerfed everything that made its fast attack useful. Now is more harmful than useful, due to retaliation.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

…Those are pretty all over the place.

more than one way to skin a cat. if you took the time to read the thread instead of just spark notes the build numbers, you might learn a thing or two about the FT play style.

for further information, i suggest you do some research on worm-mucking.

nakoda.4213:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

…Those are pretty all over the place.

more than one way to skin a cat. if you took the time to read the thread instead of just spark notes the build numbers, you might learn a thing or two about the FT play style.

for further information, i suggest you do some research on worm-mucking.

I’ve worked with the flamethrower a LOT. I’ve made power, crit damage, condition, support, utility…pretty much every type of build you can imagine. I’ve taken build from other people…Seriously. A lot. I’ve probably desperately tried to make this work at least 20-25 separate times. It’s just not good. The only way to use it is to pop in and use the utility skills. If you use skill 1 2 or 4, you’re not being effective. All I’m suggesting is to make skill 1 2 and 4 useful, thus making the kit worth it. Not just as random pop ins, but as a kit as a whole.

a small, but substantial buff to the flamethrower would be if the #1 skill became a PROJECTILE finisher!
I hear a lot of talk about blast finishers, and for good reasons of course.

But if the first skill would be a projectile finisher, coupling with the napalm fire field suddenly makes a lot more sense… even if the enemy ignores the field and it’s ticks.

And why not let it tick burning on the initial hit, instead of that elusive last hit?

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Here are two problems I see with the engineer class as a whole:

1) Flamethrower is the worst kit, yet almost unanimously the first kit that new engineers gravitate towards.
2) If you want to be helpful with damage, you have no choice but to take grenades. Period.

While I agree that the flamethrower is no longer viable, I think you are forgetting about our Bomb kit. Which, if traited, can heal your group and do a significant amount of dps in PvE, WvW, and sPvP. Oh, did I mention the combo fields?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=DE9wxnZ5yD8

eot.

Specterryu Quipter.8412:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Here are two problems I see with the engineer class as a whole:

1) Flamethrower is the worst kit, yet almost unanimously the first kit that new engineers gravitate towards.
2) If you want to be helpful with damage, you have no choice but to take grenades. Period.

While I agree that the flamethrower is no longer viable, I think you are forgetting about our Bomb kit. Which, if traited, can heal your group and do a significant amount of dps in PvE, WvW, and sPvP. Oh, did I mention the combo fields?

No where near the speed and range of grenades though. It’s fantastic kit, but it’s really all about point defense and bunkering.

I stopped using the FT when they nerfed it to the ground by changing the #5 skill…. RIP FT.

The damage on the flamethrower isn’t all that bad. It’s just that nades get a 50% boost in effectiveness from grenadier, which is pretty nuts.

It used to be pretty bad, now it’s actually pretty nice. Game isn’t all about damage folks, sometimes team support and utility are needed.

Numot.3965:

The damage on the flamethrower isn’t all that bad. It’s just that nades get a 50% boost in effectiveness from grenadier, which is pretty nuts.

It used to be pretty bad, now it’s actually pretty nice. Game isn’t all about damage folks, sometimes team support and utility are needed.

That’s fair, but three of the skills are pure damage skills. 1 2 and 4. If you try to use this for damage, you’re doing it wrong, yet 3/5 of the kit is designed to be damage. Sure, we can just use this for utility, but in the end it’s still a kit with 3 totally worthless skills.

imo, FT#1 is not a damage attack it is an effect spreading attack.

same goes for napalm, it is a utility.

why #2 is not a blast finisher remans a mystery.

nakoda.4213:

imo, FT#1 is not a damage attack it is an effect spreading attack.

same goes for napalm, it is a utility.

why #2 is not a blast finisher remans a mystery.

would you want FT #1 to be a projectile finisher, for more synergy with the Napalm field?

I agree on FT#2 being a blast finisher though.

Or as alternative: FT#3 being a whirl finisher, how cool would that be?

Not all 3 of these of course, we can’t have it all.

I know we didn’t see eye to eye on another thing recently, but still asking you because you’re totally into the Flamethrower and I think you have a good vision on what it can do or not if optimised.

nakoda.4213:

imo, FT#1 is not a damage attack it is an effect spreading attack.

I wouldn’t be so sure about that. Basically everything that could use its fast attack for on-crit effects got cooldowns (retaliation still works on us for every single hit, though…). Probably they didn’t intend for it to be an effect spreading attack. Dunno what they intended it to be, though.

same goes for napalm, it is a utility.

And not that bad at it. Albeit, they should make it a bit bigger, imho.

why #2 is not a blast finisher remans a mystery.

Mh, guess it would be overpowered, with that short cooldown.

While I do believe seeing someone spamming FT1 anywhere is pure evidence of them being a new / bad player, you’re seriously undervaluing Flame Blast. In CoE, I was easily hitting for 12k with it on both parts, on a < 1 second cast time point blank. Then swap to elixir gun, push 4, ~ in mid-air, blunderbuss, jump shot, swap to grenades and faceroll for a few more seconds before popping FT2 again. The damage is absurdly high on it, and you’d be a fool to say it’s bad. If you don’t like typing fast, sure, that’s what elixirs are for – but for an ideal DPS setup in PvE, you’ll want to be juggling kits to maintain some stupidly high output.

Or you could use bomb kit, but that’s melee only. Still great damage though, but at that point I’ll just hop on my warrior if I’m forced to be close to do damage.

While FT is not as bad as it used to be what with the addition of better blast control and a blast finisher, it still has some serious holes in it.

Just because someone can use it PVP WVW btw does not make it work well in PVE. PVE is the problem. Vent doesn’t provide much protection in fact nothing on that kit really does, and if we’re to consider this class an adventurer class then it should have more protection not less. It’s bad enough they keep wittling away at the few CC skills we do have left on this class. It would be a very different thing if they had left this a soldier class and we could all wear heavy armor.

And they still haven’t completely fixed the cone attacks because they miss if any kind of movement occurs while using them even on other classes, it’s not as bad as before however missing because of some fail design of the game or some bug that’s not completely gone almost a year into the game’s launch is still not acceptable.

Nades ftw

/15 char

Kamahl.3621:

In CoE, I was easily hitting for 12k with it on both parts, on a < 1 second cast time point blank.

Pics or it didn’t happen. I’ve never been able to make that hit for more than 6k total at the very very very very very max.

Kamahl.3621:

In CoE, I was easily hitting for 12k with it on both parts, on a < 1 second cast time point blank.

Hahaha let’s get real. A pure berserker with all traits for flamethrower + 25 stacks of might + Omnomberry bar + potion of slaying a certain creature wouldn’t pass 6000….

The only problem I see with the Flamethrower is the Juggernaut trait, to be honest.

I think at close range, the FT should be a decent area-denial / area-damage weapon. Not a single-target weapon, we got a melee kit already.

The Juggernaut trait, as the FT’s “weapon trait” should facilitate this.

I would do these change:

• Flamethrower #1 burns an area, leaving a 10s lasting patch which burns enemies while inside (not the condition, it simply deals light damage to everyone inside). It also clearly displays the cone-pattern on the ground affected, which could help newbies.
• Juggernaut gives passive Stability, passive Protection and slows movement by 40% (again).
• The +15% damage trait is removed, that trait instead gives the Flamethrower a much narrower but 50% longer cone attack, making it a conscious choice whether to hit a wider area or a longer line.
• Flamethrower damage is increased by 15% passively.

The idea would be that without Juggernaut, Flamethrower is a superior area damage weapon at close range, basing it’s damage on a hybrid mix of direct power attack, power-based torched ground ticks and burning ticks.
Taking Juggernaut, it would turn into a supreme defensive narrow-space weapon, making the Engineer truly difficult to overcome, but easy to avoid.

I feel this gives FT a much more useful “special” use case. We have tons of area attacks, we need each to have it’s own niche. We already have close-range PBAE attacks with the bomb kit and ranged AE attacks with the grenades, what we don’t have is an area-denial kit.

I’m actually at the moment build around FT / precision and kills quite quick.
But I’m not spoilt.
And I learn my trade – yesterday I was forced into EG Cleric support for CM explo and everyone was amazed how nicely can an engineer heal the whole group, given he knows what he’s doing.

I think it would be neat if every tree had a special kit they specifically buffed or added a unique twist. Like Alchemy could have a kit twist for Elixir gun and Tools could do something for Tool kit.

I like FT better then grenades anyways. I build for FT but tend to run with Elixir gun as well and I change frequently in instances between them. FT could use a buff/changes and turrets could use some fixes sure; really all the kits could use some fixes and engineers overall dps across the board could use a boost. It would be wonderful if I didn’t feel like we need to stack huge amounts of might to reach the amount of dps other classes do with zero stacks.

I wouldn’t mind if they nerfed our might stacking into the ground and gave us a 25% dps buff across the board. But that is neither here nor there. I still have more fun with FT and EG then nades and I play this game to enjoy myself. I let being competitive die with my previous MMO and now just play to more or less relax.

Just play how you want and if nades makes you feel better then go for it. If you don’t like kits then don’t use them, if FT is what you enjoyed so far and the others aren’t cutting it then don’t let this silly topic stop you from enjoying yourself.

Agnima.3714:

…. I still have more fun with FT and EG then nades and I play this game to enjoy myself. I let being competitive die with my previous MMO and now just play to more or less relax.

Just play how you want and if nades makes you feel better then go for it. If you don’t like kits then don’t use them, if FT is what you enjoyed so far and the others aren’t cutting it then don’t let this silly topic stop you from enjoying yourself.

^this. I have more fun running FT/EG than grenades. If they changed the ’nade auto to targeted that might change. But I like being able to swap to EG for group support.

why on EARTH do people want the old jugg back?

yay i have stability!! so I can stand here and not be knocked down OR get away while I eat this damage. While I am at it, let’s get the vacuum back so I can pull MORE foes to my side to beat on me while I do zero damage, and can’t move because of yet another self CC built in to an ability. it’s like wishing for us to have our downed state while still alive. Can’t move, can’t dmg, can’t get away.

we already have perma protection with the ft kit. protection + 200 toughness = awesome. Especially without the ridiculous self CC.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

If you want to be helpful with damage, you have no choice but to take grenades. Period.

Define being “helpful.”

My Flame Jet regularly does 4-5K damage every 2.25 seconds at level 80, both inside and outside of dungeons. For an auto-attack skill, that’s about average. It’s not as good as a Warrior’s Axe but it’s certainly better than a Guardian’s Hammer.

Once you include Flame Blast, you’ll come to find that the FT’s damage output is more than satisfactory. You won’t top the charts, but the whole point of running it isn’t to be the damage dealer of the group. It naturally pairs well with the Elixir Gun since they both benefit by the same traits.

People run the FT/EG build because it’s a hybrid spec that offers extensive group support and reasonable DPS. Doesn’t matter what dungeon you’re doing: An FT/EG Engineer with a Hammer Guardian and content just becomes trivial. Nobody dies.

The Flamethrower as it is right now is perfectly fine and nothing really needs to be changed. I’d like it if Smoke Vent was a Smoke field and if Flame Blast was a Blast finisher, but there are bigger issues with the class right now (i.e., turrets and gadgets) I’d rather ArenaNet focus on.

Your ideas are nice, but please don’t suggest that the kit is broken and needs fixing. Many of us have been using it ever since we’ve hit level 80 and think the kit works extraordinarily well.

JubeiTM.5763:

Kamahl.3621:

In CoE, I was easily hitting for 12k with it on both parts, on a < 1 second cast time point blank.

Hahaha let’s get real. A pure berserker with all traits for flamethrower + 25 stacks of might + Omnomberry bar + potion of slaying a certain creature wouldn’t pass 6000….

In full Berserker with a 10/30/0/30/0 setup you should be seeing Flame Blast hit for 3K and then detonate for another 5K. At least. More than that if you’re stacking Bloodlust and then swap to Force in your off-hand.

Phineas Poe.3018:

People run the FT/EG build because it’s a hybrid spec that offers extensive group support and reasonable DPS. Doesn’t matter what dungeon you’re doing: An FT/EG Engineer with a Hammer Guardian and content just becomes trivial. Nobody dies.

On top of fundamentally being fun, and not having to kitten around with a ground targeting reticule 100% of the time.

FT kit works wonders for me. Nobody complains whenever I use it :P

FT is fine. I have been using it in PvP for the last 2 weeks. I feel like it compliments P/S very well. You can get two blinds, two knockbacks, you can hit the crits easy with 1. I basically picked it originally for incendiary ammo so I didn’t need 10 in explosives. If you hit ammo and then static shock you will produce burn on each bounce. So now you could potentially bleed/vuln(2)/burn/conf/blind/freeze per bounce in my current build. FT 1 seems to hit more frequently than pistol 1 so it will produce the crits faster thus creating more condition damage while pistol 1 can create more bleed stacks. So when you combine the two, you can bunker while producing some good Condition damage. So will you get the damage output of grenades? Nope but does it allow you to perform a couple of roles? Sure.

Phineas Poe.3018:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

If you want to be helpful with damage, you have no choice but to take grenades. Period.

My Flame Jet regularly does 4-5K damage every 2.25 seconds at level 80, both inside and outside of dungeons.

2.25 seconds is the key. Grenades hit even second or so. Just the auto attack deals about 2k-3k damage. In two seconds, that’s 4k-6k damage. Grenade barrage throws in a 10k-14k damage. Shrapnel Grenade is about 6k easily.

It’s really no comparison. Not to mention, it’s 1,500 range.

Thiefz.3695:

FT is fine. I have been using it in PvP for the last 2 weeks. I feel like it compliments P/S very well. You can get two blinds, two knockbacks, you can hit the crits easy with 1. I basically picked it originally for incendiary ammo so I didn’t need 10 in explosives. If you hit ammo and then static shock you will produce burn on each bounce. So now you could potentially bleed/vuln(2)/burn/conf/blind/freeze per bounce in my current build. FT 1 seems to hit more frequently than pistol 1 so it will produce the crits faster thus creating more condition damage while pistol 1 can create more bleed stacks. So when you combine the two, you can bunker while producing some good Condition damage. So will you get the damage output of grenades? Nope but does it allow you to perform a couple of roles? Sure.

Freeze?

lorazcyk.8927:

Thiefz.3695:

FT is fine. I have been using it in PvP for the last 2 weeks. I feel like it compliments P/S very well. You can get two blinds, two knockbacks, you can hit the crits easy with 1. I basically picked it originally for incendiary ammo so I didn’t need 10 in explosives. If you hit ammo and then static shock you will produce burn on each bounce. So now you could potentially bleed/vuln(2)/burn/conf/blind/freeze per bounce in my current build. FT 1 seems to hit more frequently than pistol 1 so it will produce the crits faster thus creating more condition damage while pistol 1 can create more bleed stacks. So when you combine the two, you can bunker while producing some good Condition damage. So will you get the damage output of grenades? Nope but does it allow you to perform a couple of roles? Sure.

Freeze?

sigil of hydromancy.
incendiary ammo → swap → pistol #3

The Gates Assassin.9827:

2.25 seconds is the key. Grenades hit even second or so. Just the auto attack deals about 2k-3k damage. In two seconds, that’s 4k-6k damage. Grenade barrage throws in a 10k-14k damage. Shrapnel Grenade is about 6k easily.

It’s really no comparison. Not to mention, it’s 1,500 range.

…And?

No one is contesting that the Grenade Kit does better damage. I’m just not sure where you come from suggesting that the Grenade Kit is our only option for groups, or else our damage is “not helpful.”

It’s kind of funny, because I’ve been listening to this crap since October. The argument is always the same.

The Flamethrower does perfectly fine DPS. I’ve been farming CoE p1 the past couple weeks for Charged Lodestones and have consistently cleared it in about 30 minutes. Knowledge of content and player skill level has a lot more to do with successful dungeon runs than what build you’re using—especially when we’re talking about DPS.

Especially since I can defend the security module room by myself with the Flamethrower, having the other 4 people in my party disarming, I will just have to agree to disagree that the FT has any trouble dealing damage—across one target or several.

I also have to disagree with the other user above that suggested that spamming Flame Jet makes someone a noob. It applies consistent 5-6 stacks of Vulnerability and Bleed on top of good direct damage and Burning. Acid Bomb and Flame Blast are better options when they’re available, but when you’re traited to use the Flamethrower there’s nothing wrong with spamming the #1 skill waiting for other skills to recharge.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Especially since I can defend the security module room by myself with the Flamethrower, having the other 4 people in my party disarming, I will just have to agree to disagree that the FT has any trouble dealing damage—across one target or several.

I also have to disagree with the other user above that suggested that spamming Flame Jet makes someone a noob. It applies consistent 5-6 stacks of Vulnerability and Bleed on top of good direct damage and Burning. Acid Bomb and Flame Blast are better options when they’re available, but when you’re traited to use the Flamethrower there’s nothing wrong with spamming the #1 skill waiting for other skills to recharge.

This would be valid, if Bomb Kit didn’t do the exact same scenario better. I always just swap to BK and change out Shrapnel for larger radii, and mindlessly push 1 on top of my teammates. Hits 5 enemies instead of 3, for more damage, in a full 360 degree spread. Don’t have to turn, or reposition, or anything. Just make sure your bombs keep coming.

and mindlessly pushing 1 is how you want to play?

nakoda.4213:

and mindlessly pushing 1 is how you want to play?

For that part, a single mistake results in starting over, and bomb kit is a pretty secure method of making sure no mistakes arise. So, for the sake of guaranteeing no irritation to the entire team, yes.

Phineas Poe.3018:

The Flamethrower does perfectly fine DPS. I’ve been farming CoE p1 the past couple weeks for Charged Lodestones and have consistently cleared it in about 30 minutes. Knowledge of content and player skill level has a lot more to do with successful dungeon runs than what build you’re using—especially when we’re talking about DPS.

Saying player skill is the biggest factor is a terrible point to make. It’s like saying the chef is what really matters, even if all the food he cooks with is totally rotten. Obviously, we’re assuming that the person playing these builds is skilled. The only thing we’re judging is if the build in the hands of a pro is good.

It applies consistent 5-6 stacks of Vulnerability and Bleed on top of good direct damage and Burning.

Grenade kit does literally all of that. It stacks 14 vulnerability on average (25 spikes). 3 stacks of bleeding minimum every 6 seconds, great direct damage, burning from traits, chilled, poison and blind. Did I mention you’re 1,500 range away?

Look, I enjoy flamethrower as much as the next guy, but I’ve only found 1 good spec, and that’s jumping in and out for the utility, not the damage. The best DPS spec I’ve found was with REALLY high precision and power. I was able to do decent damage, but I had to be really close up to my targets and it was all for less damage in the end. Not to mention I lost the ability to attack while running away.

that’s because the FT is not a “DPS” kit…