Guild Wars 2

Hey guys,

I’m kinda confused about the flamethrower kit.

All the burning skills make it seem like something you’d take when you’re going for condition damage. But the main attack only inflicts a 1 second burn after the last attack of the channel.

Would you guys recommend the flamethrower with a condition damage or power build?

I’d actually reccomend a hybrid, with an emphasis upon criticals. Aside from Juggernaut, a Very Snazzy trait in the criticals line, the flamethrower auto attack doesn’t actually do that much condition damage (well, it’s about 1/3rd of your attack’s total damage) but it’s ten individual hits.
Down the critical/condition damage tree, you get the options to cause bleeding and vulnerability on critical hits.

I’ll repeat that bit about now. The flamethrower’s auto attack hits ten times. This means that the flamethrower can potentially plonk a respectable amount of bleeding on a target, and keep it there.
Power is still useful, because as you yourself picked up on, there’s only so much damage that fire can do.

I’ve gotten a real kick out of “Hurrr!!! I’ma burn you so hard you BLEED!” Absolutely love it

Honestly though, the flamethrower is best paired with Precision+Power.

Thanks for your fast and helpful responses, guys

I actually never thought about it that way and it sounds awesome, but unfortunately I can’t find the trait that inflicts bleeding on critical hits, am I overlooking it?

On the firearms trait line:
Adept / Sharpshooter / 30% chance to cause bleeding for 3 seconds on critical hits

Power based.

Burn isn’t all that great of a condition, only in solo PvE does it stand out since any old random Ele with 0 condition damage can stack a minute of it with one rotation and you won’t see it tick once for you.

Bleeding, its quite good at, but really, without sigil of earth, the bleeds are very short duration and too rare to be a significant damage source.

Yep… its a power weapon. A well lined up flame blast is very strong burst.

I also say its a power weapon.
I use it along with my rifle and it works pretty well.

Power seems to be more powerful than condition damage any way despite your weapon of choice. Condition damage seems to kinda scale like healing, in that no matter how much you have it still sucks. (imo)

Lyuben.2613:

Power based.

Burn isn’t all that great of a condition, only in solo PvE does it stand out since any old random Ele with 0 condition damage can stack a minute of it with one rotation and you won’t see it tick once for you.

Bleeding, its quite good at, but really, without sigil of earth, the bleeds are very short duration and too rare to be a significant damage source.

Yep… its a power weapon. A well lined up flame blast is very strong burst.

No, not really. It can be focused either way, focusing on condition crit procs (would be nice to have the sigil proc bleed work in there for sure, or even chill for a debuff build) or straight up power. Either can work. In fact, it’s excellent and more akin for a hybrid/mix of the two and stacking might buffs, which boosts both areas. That seems to be what it was designed to do, for a constant stream of sustained damage in both areas.

Also, burn is our strongest damage condition as an engineer, I would not count that out. Bleeds are the weakest condition for an engineer and are pretty much bonus damage that much is true, but it’s not your main focus. Sure, if you have a ton of people applying burn it becomes less useful, but outside of bosses/tough mobs, when does that happen?

Sharpshooter, did that one get an internal cooldown?

Cyricus.2981:

Lyuben.2613:

Power based.

Burn isn’t all that great of a condition, only in solo PvE does it stand out since any old random Ele with 0 condition damage can stack a minute of it with one rotation and you won’t see it tick once for you.

Bleeding, its quite good at, but really, without sigil of earth, the bleeds are very short duration and too rare to be a significant damage source.

Yep… its a power weapon. A well lined up flame blast is very strong burst.

No, not really. It can be focused either way, focusing on condition crit procs (would be nice to have the sigil proc bleed work in there for sure, or even chill for a debuff build) or straight up power. Either can work. In fact, it’s excellent and more akin for a hybrid/mix of the two and stacking might buffs, which boosts both areas. That seems to be what it was designed to do, for a constant stream of sustained damage in both areas.

Also, burn is our strongest damage condition as an engineer, I would not count that out. Bleeds are the weakest condition for an engineer and are pretty much bonus damage that much is true, but it’s not your main focus. Sure, if you have a ton of people applying burn it becomes less useful, but outside of bosses/tough mobs, when does that happen?

Relying on burns + sharpshooter does not make for a good damage. Burn as a condition, is not strong in a group setting.

Sharpshooter itself is 30% on a crit. Crits themselves are not 100% so it has a low proc rate, and the bleed it gives is very short duration.

Power builds don’t rely on RNG and just do lots of damage.

Also bleed itself is very low damage. Its additional damage, but not something that should be focused on.

Traits should focus on boon duration after juggernaut, and runes should be 3x 20% might duration for 40sec might duration on HGH. You’ll get a decent chunk of condition damage from the might stacks, but gear for power all other stats are secondary based on how much survivability vs damage you want.

yeah, might and boon duration runes and food are pretty fantastic for pve.
For wvw, centaur runes are so good. And boon duration food.

I do have to point out, here as well…
FT needs work. its damage is pretty much mathematically subpar.

Power precision and take 50% chance for vuln on crit trait. You will kitten

Geebus their are some die hards here!! Anyone saying power or condition is better than one or the other is WRONG.

Thats right, You, you There, you’re WRONG!!

Because!!! its all situational. OP didnt specify what focus he meant for… PvE solo?? PvE Group? sPvP? WvW??? so, to answer the OPs question, i say, BOTH!!! try Both, Both can be viable in any given situation, if you seek out and abuse those situations =)

I have done a Very high condition damage / toughness build with flamethrower is sPvP and some WvW and kicked Butt. The key to doing well, is sticking with your strong suite, depending on your build. its up to YOU to decide and specialize for that suite.

Both are viable, and both builds have different strengths. sheer Damage output means NOTHING if you such at landing/aiming it.

leftharted.7102:

Geebus their are some die hards here!! Anyone saying power or condition is better than one or the other is WRONG.

Thats right, You, you There, you’re WRONG!!

Because!!! its all situational. OP didnt specify what focus he meant for… PvE solo?? PvE Group? sPvP? WvW??? so, to answer the OPs question, i say, BOTH!!! try Both, Both can be viable in any given situation, if you seek out and abuse those situations =)

I have done a Very high condition damage / toughness build with flamethrower is sPvP and some WvW and kicked Butt. The key to doing well, is sticking with your strong suite, depending on your build. its up to YOU to decide and specialize for that suite.

Both are viable, and both builds have different strengths. sheer Damage output means NOTHING if you such at landing/aiming it.

the exact same mechanics apply for applying direct and condition damage.

Name one situation where dealing 2k damage is better then dealing 3k?
Even if we pretend for a moment, that 2k can’t be cleansed reducing it even further to 500 damage.
If you missed the direct hit, you missed the application of the condition as well.

There is only 1 condition that even comes close to direct damage, and that is confusion. with multiple stacks, in WvW.
5-6s stacks of confuse in WvW, scaling at .15 will actually deal competitive damage to direct damage scaling. .75-.9/attack. And also, scales in cast time due to matching attack rate. a .5s grenade attack for example will hit them really hard at 2 attacks/s.
Confuse in spvp, is less impressive, scaling at 50% of its normal rate. .075 5 stacks being .375/attack.
Obviously, still better then the others.

A burn at .25/s is pretty terrible.
Bleeds as well. at .05/s

How exactly does that compare to direct damage? skill coeff*weapon*power/armor.
kits are 969, pistol 1025, rifle 1205
Armor is 2000-2600ish. This means we can on average take the skill coeff and cut it in have to get an average. Or do the math if you want to be specific on which weapon vs what level armor. rifle vs light armor will obviously deal way more. while a kit vs heavy will scale less.

The flamethrower is terrible as I mentioned. one of the worst scaling(if not the) weapons in the game.
1.43 power scaling over 2.25s .633/s armor average reducing that to .317.
So, the worst scaling weapon in the game, after armor, still scales better then burns, bleeds up to 6 stacks, and confuse 2 stacks.
And that was with no crit. no +15% damage trait, no vul. Each of those, and any other +damage trait such as 5% damage to bleeding targets, all increase dd scaling.
A 50% crit rate, with no +crit damage, increases that power coeff average by 25%. 15% ft trait, another 15% multiplicative. vul, another 1-15% multiplicative.

Flamethrower DPS is too low for its range and the gear to maximize its damage while still having survivability (Condition Damage, Prescision/Toughness) is extremely hard to get outside of sPvP.

Not to mention the various bugs it has, I would say stick with rifle/nades.

From my testing it didn’t feel like it scaled very well with power or condition builds without precision.

Casia.4281

the exact same mechanics apply for applying direct and condition damage.

Name one situation where dealing 2k damage is better then dealing 3k?
Even if we pretend for a moment, that 2k can’t be cleansed reducing it even further to 500 damage.
If you missed the direct hit, you missed the application of the condition as well.

There is only 1 condition that even comes close to direct damage, and that is confusion. with multiple stacks, in WvW.
5-6s stacks of confuse in WvW, scaling at .15 will actually deal competitive damage to direct damage scaling. .75-.9/attack. And also, scales in cast time due to matching attack rate. a .5s grenade attack for example will hit them really hard at 2 attacks/s.
Confuse in spvp, is less impressive, scaling at 50% of its normal rate. .075 5 stacks being .375/attack.
Obviously, still better then the others.

A burn at .25/s is pretty terrible.
Bleeds as well. at .05/s

How exactly does that compare to direct damage? skill coeff*weapon*power/armor.
kits are 969, pistol 1025, rifle 1205
Armor is 2000-2600ish. This means we can on average take the skill coeff and cut it in have to get an average. Or do the math if you want to be specific on which weapon vs what level armor. rifle vs light armor will obviously deal way more. while a kit vs heavy will scale less.

okay, im sorry if i came off a bit over zealous… but ill explain my point.

the fact that your DPS is higher, does not make you MVP. Far from it. the OP asked which way to spec flamethrower, not if he Should or not, so right off the bat, your kinda a doosh for Telling someone that something they want to do sucks… well, thats Your opinion.

Having high burst or direct damage can sacrafice utility. Plain and simple. I rick bursty builds because i pay attention, and negate their burst. Then they are stuck on cooldowns, while i can sustain high damage. Sure, its not as High, but its Sustainable. So, i tend to win.

my main point is ALL builds are viable. Their is a counter to every build. So, it boils down to comfort. Condition dmg flamethrower spec can be Very effective, if it fits yourplaystyle, plain and simple. Their is no defining fact or guiding light that says “you Sux if you dont capatilize on the absolute most dmg you can do.” i love to have a tanky build, to dodge/blind/block stooopid burst builds…. its all timing, and also not putting yourself into a situation where you’ll get rocked… Its up to you as the player to find and abuse the areas you have specialized for…..

Id like to see/setup a 8v8 match off all engineers, one side all burst, one side all support…. id bet 100g the support side blows them out of the water…

let people play the game the waythey want! and yes, they can still be effective. still disagree?? Good!! then you’re still human! lets just agree to disagree….. but be al ittle more open… its not like with your crit/power build youve Never lost… you were countered.

I’m kind of in the same boat as the OP, but a bit different, as Im rocking almost full Carrion gear, my crit rate is suffering, its like 31% ATM.

Im looking to build up my Crit a bit without taking much of a hit to my Condition Damage (Toughness Im not worried about, the +200 I get from Juggernaut is doing me well).

My question is, is there any KARMA gear out there that has Prec & Condition Damage? If so, which one(s) would you guys suggest? I have a ton of Karma, but not a ton of cash…

Thanks guys!

I currently use the Vatlaaw’s Armor set which has Precision, Toughness and Condition damage. Plus I like the looks of it

In what way does 2k damage over 4s add utility over 3k instant?
condition damage is mathematically inferior to direct. end of story. saying something is viable, when its provably worse in every situation to the alternative is silly. This is not even a playstyle question. you can use pistols, which clearly deal lots of condition damage. but STILL scale better with direct in terms of killing power, and raw damage.

Blinds, knockdowns, immobalize, chill, daze, cripple, etc all work 100% effectively with 0 condition damage.

condition damage isn’t support. condition damage is damage.

Condition damage should be viewed as additional damage, applied to skills. under only no circumstances should it be considered a primary focus of damage. (only mesmers with massive confus stacking should even consider it) Pistols can come close with static shot bouncing, and confus bombs.

Frankly, while 8v8 support vs cannon is silly, because why would you only have 1?
grenade+mesmer+guardian on one team. grenades kill, mesmer reflets, guardiand knockdown. But lets say cannon vs support. Again. 8 grenades focus fire and deal 80k damage aoe with grenade barrage x8 in .5s. conditions focus fire and stack 30seconds of 800 damage/s burn. ouch. 80k vs 800. formula 409.

The math has been presented to you. you can keep dancing around it, and arguing what you consider viable. but anecdotal evidence, based on who you did or didnt play against means nothing. I’m glad you won some matches, but I don’t know who against, and if they understood the math behind any skills or scaling themselves.
I mostly wvw, but really, you think you will beat me in Spvp with a power build, and formula 409? 5 ways to remove conditions, and 1 that removes and pulses removal.

Show me some math. I would love to see how I am wrong here. I used to defend p/p, until I broke it down. I can’t defend condition damage. They don’t scale. and they are too easy to remove for most professions.

Faction, yes.
the orr gear comes in 3 options.
One is tough/prec/cond damage. Seemingly amazing for pistols/flamet/elixir. Although, as I’ve now been over. cond damage is very weak.
http://dulfy.net/2012/09/08/gw2-templegod-karma-armor-sets/

I put together a set when I was doing p/p and still thought conditions were good.

Thank you very much Casia!! <3

TA and HotW also has a tough/prec/cond damage option.

Yeah conditions, not only suffer from poor damage, but also from poor group use and PvE use.

5 conditions people vs a boss= 1 useful person
5 power people vs a boss= 5 useful people

Plus, vs structures, where conditions do nothing, then you are totally useless.

Try doing the AC path 3 burrow event with 5 full condition damage/toughness and precision engineers. See how fun and good that works out for you.

Ugh, your hard up aint cha??

im not arguing that condition is Better, or Higher Damage, im arguing that its Viable. Acording to your logic, the numbers arent as high, therefore its not viable. That is a biased opinion….

MY point, is condition spec is and can be Effective, if you play it well, and most importantly, you Like it…

Your point, is the damage is inferior, so Everyone should avoid it… i disagree. because Alot of people dont have condition removal.. let alone the ability to consistently wipe them.. even with 409, with them being reapplied every second, doesnt make much of a difference. even Vs a mesmer, let them wipe them all, they have 45 sec cooldown to do so again…. im Already re-applying them… Condition specs focus on skills that do condition damage, which tend to apply secondaries…. condition spec’s lean towards our utility, power spec can do this aswell, but sacrafices alot of their own damage for not utilizing the most advantageous skills for their spec. This is by design, which you hinted at… most cond. applying abilities are coupled with secondary effects, due to the fact that you are relying on not doing all your damage, instantly, by design, by Anet.

do you realize im fighting for a fair opinion, for each indicidual, and your only defense is “No, my numbers are higher.” Sheer amount of Damage, no matter how long it took to apply, does not mean You have the best build, and everyone who doesnt build ‘like’ you, is kittening themselves. Thats wrong, that Your biased opinion.

Also, mentioning scale numbers that we can all find in some wiki, is irrelevant… that info can be wrong, (especially with NO way to actually check its credetials…. duh? any ole nerd can mess with the wiki.) let alone Anets focus atm is PVP balance, so ill bet these values change, Alot. Yuh know what that means?? they want things Fair… they want anyone to build the way they want, without cons… simply put, they are working towards Destroying the ‘cookie cutter’ build craze…. this is the most balanced MMO PVP ive ever played (and i mean truly balanced…) yet the system is not perfect… Anet will be changing things soon, with the term “Balanced” in mind…

so, if you think the scale is tilted your way….. itll tilt back….

but hey, no hard feelings? same team? im not trying to argue really.. its just a game… which is also why im not going to go through all the fact checking and math B.S. …. because, im effective with my build… no matter what you calculate =p

so… agree to disagree???

How can you disagree with facts though?

At least give one situation where 2k over 4s is superior to 3k up front.

Did you even read my post?

how about when that 2k applies confusion, or -33% healing effectivness, or Weakness but the 3k does not??

helping you negate the next 3k coming Your way, rather than… Not?

Thats how….

Static shot scales with direct damage as well as confusion. .37 direct. vs .15 in pve/wvw, .075 in spvp.
Concussive bomb does as well. (although in this circumstant. 5 stacks of confuse vs .475 confus wins hands down.) but in hat case, the rest of bomb clearly scales with power very well.
poison anti heal is not effected by condition damage. PDV with power or cond damage will have the same anti-heal effect.
Weakness also not effected by cond damage.

no one is arguing skill use.
Weakness, poison anti-heal, blind, etc all have nothing to do with power/crit vs cond damage.

Hey, I have every respect for weakness and poison. But they benefit more from condition duration, rather than damage, since poison doesn’t stack and ticks for what counts as two bleeds. So, in the end, I don’t see your point.

Plus, the flamethrower can’t confuse, weaken or poison.

What are you on about?

haha. we obviously shifted to a larger topic. I was going to comment and try to bring it back to flamethrower which is burn, bleed(with sharpershooter), and blind.
but didn’t want to sound like I was changing the topic due to loosing a point. because the point is solid.

Yes, there are a few isolated cases. Grenades. poison grenade obviously scales with cond damage better, as it doesnt deal any direct damage. but grenades as a whole..
Elixir gun 1. 5s bleed, vs .380 powerscaling per .75s. 5s bleed is about perfect duration. 5s is short enough to almost always get full duration in, and not be cleansed, or be wasted on a dead target. the default power scaling is pretty low.
But again, elixir gun2, and 4 scale VERY well with power. (eg 3 is terrible.) Fails at cond removal compared to super elixir, and 409. fails at poison compared to PDV vul comes from many sources. you really dont need to waste your time on such a weak channeled move for it.
Obviously, napalm and ammo are burn, and only burn. But ft1 and ft2 are clearly 90% of your damage, and almost entirely power based.

Retaliation, and lightning strike via static discharge trait are purely power based, btw.

They have plenty to do with condition dmaage, since for the most part, they are only coupled with condition ability spreads.. and who in their right mind would use P/P with a power/crit build, and not rifle??

you can still flip out of flamethrower and pop confuse or poison… and if you were a power crit build, you’d likley have rifle instead of p/p…. therefore no confuse or poison…. Weakness obviously is only from elixer gun, and albeit #2 and #4 benefit more from power, you easily outweigh that benefit with #1 and #3 and high condition damage… in NOOOO way are #2 and #4 better, even with Moderate condition damage…. especially switching from fumigate to poison darts, thats alot of poison up-time, hindering healing ability… and if your going to argue that you could just keep each kit on your toolbar, your hurting yourself, by not using the skills that coincide with your build….

and Lyuben, i gave you your example.. you only asked for One. How can you still not see my point?? my point being its effective to spec condition if you so please….. . regardless of what you go on about… Im sure youll have some snide rebudle… but simply put, its effective….

my argument, this entire thread, has been, that ALL Builds are Effective. Just because you found a way to specialize in doing the absolute highest DPS possible, in NO way, means that you have found the only viable way to play an engineer, in Guild Wars 2. Their are tons of other variables to consider, enough that you could not correctly come to a conclusion such as “this is the only way to build or play an engi”… by design…

condition flamethrower can be effective.

so can power flamethrower.

its up to the INDIVIDUAL, to do so. we are all individuals, and it is None of our responsibility to deter the OP from flamethrower, let alone how to specialize his charcter…. its your perogative for some reason, but not your responsibility. ANY way CAN be effective, if he doesnt Suck…

so, OP, go try both.. for your own opinion, and dont read to much into ANYTHING but your own opinion…

I see a lot of comments made about condition damage that are not entirely accurate. Several post mentioning condition damage appear to fail to include the base direct damage of the attack as well. just throwing that out there.

Thats a very good point coglin..

also, to anyone else reading this thread… line of sight is always one factor…… its easy to hide behind a barrel // corner etc…. Conditions have to potential to continue doing damage, even though you, yourself is out of range / sight… alowing you to reposition, while still doing some sort of DPS….

looks like its all situational… =P

coglin.1496:

I see a lot of comments made about condition damage that are not entirely accurate. Several post mentioning condition damage appear to fail to include the base direct damage of the attack as well. just throwing that out there.

What isn’t accurate? You have fingers, you have a keyboard, you have managed to type so far. What is wrong? Saying “you’re wrong”, is not an argument.

And when factoring in the base direct damage of the attack, well, that’s the very point of this argument with the flamethrower kit. Which is worth it more? The conditions, assuming you stack crit, or power.

Numbers seem to indicate power.

You seem to be forgetting that conditions still do damage, even if you don’t waste stats on them.

Heh, you seem to forgetting that those abilities still do direct damage, even if you dont waste stats on them =p

lets all let bygones be bygones….. Both spec’s CAN be viable, assuming the player behind them is competent. Can we agree on that?? Im not trying to coax anyone into any particular build, i just want everyone to agree that its not the build thats effective, its the player. Personally, i have mor fun, and am more useful with a condition spec. It would seem that You prefer a power/crit build, and im not knocking that, it ‘can’ be extremely effective.

it all boils down to personal choice… which is why ive suggested to OP to try out both, and variations thereof. accounting for pure damage is Not accounting for All of the variables… like distance, line of sight, secondary effects, sheer speed of the player, variable stats of the target, whether or not the target can block/redirect dodge your attack, latency…… grouped, ungrouped etc…… theirs too many scenarios to claim that any one build is vastly superior over another, because you can still be countered…

coglin.1496:

I see a lot of comments made about condition damage that are not entirely accurate. Several post mentioning condition damage appear to fail to include the base direct damage of the attack as well. just throwing that out there.

that point is the entire basis of, don’t build for condition damage.
even most skills that are seemingly condition based, scale better with power/crit.
pistol really stands out for this.

might gives power and cond damage.
Base cond also scales with level. DD doesn’t.
Between level and might, condition damage abilities will deal respectable cond damage.

leftharted.7102:

Ugh, your hard up aint cha??

im not arguing that condition is Better, or Higher Damage, im arguing that its Viable. Acording to your logic, the numbers arent as high, therefore its not viable. That is a biased opinion….

MY point, is condition spec is and can be Effective, if you play it well, and most importantly, you Like it…

Your point, is the damage is inferior, so Everyone should avoid it… i disagree. because Alot of people dont have condition removal.. let alone the ability to consistently wipe them.. even with 409, with them being reapplied every second, doesnt make much of a difference. even Vs a mesmer, let them wipe them all, they have 45 sec cooldown to do so again…. im Already re-applying them… Condition specs focus on skills that do condition damage, which tend to apply secondaries…. condition spec’s lean towards our utility, power spec can do this aswell, but sacrafices alot of their own damage for not utilizing the most advantageous skills for their spec. This is by design, which you hinted at… most cond. applying abilities are coupled with secondary effects, due to the fact that you are relying on not doing all your damage, instantly, by design, by Anet.

do you realize im fighting for a fair opinion, for each indicidual, and your only defense is “No, my numbers are higher.” Sheer amount of Damage, no matter how long it took to apply, does not mean You have the best build, and everyone who doesnt build ‘like’ you, is kittening themselves. Thats wrong, that Your biased opinion.

Also, mentioning scale numbers that we can all find in some wiki, is irrelevant… that info can be wrong, (especially with NO way to actually check its credetials…. duh? any ole nerd can mess with the wiki.) let alone Anets focus atm is PVP balance, so ill bet these values change, Alot. Yuh know what that means?? they want things Fair… they want anyone to build the way they want, without cons… simply put, they are working towards Destroying the ‘cookie cutter’ build craze…. this is the most balanced MMO PVP ive ever played (and i mean truly balanced…) yet the system is not perfect… Anet will be changing things soon, with the term “Balanced” in mind…

so, if you think the scale is tilted your way….. itll tilt back….

but hey, no hard feelings? same team? im not trying to argue really.. its just a game… which is also why im not going to go through all the fact checking and math B.S. …. because, im effective with my build… no matter what you calculate =p

so… agree to disagree???

^^ this, I agree 100%. There are definitely advantages and disadvantages to each power and condition dmg, anyone who goes to either extreme as a be-all, end-all is simply wrong. That being said, there are definitely different builds that excel with different damage types.

I think a good mix of power and condition damage would serve the OP well. For PvE, you can add a stacking sigil to your main weapon to supplement either power, condition or precision, depending on where you feel you’re lacking.
For the flamethrower, I personally would go 30 into firearms (Juggernaut), and at least 10 into power (%burn on crit), and at least 20 into elixers (for the 15% dmg boost to flamethrowers) and use a sigil to supplement power. The stacks of might along with the sigil will have you putting everything into the ground.

lol… sigh…

Anyway. A real question would be zerkers or rampagers?
power/crit/crit damage or power/crit/condition damage.
that I have not done the math on. and rampagers might win for pistol and ft.

Heh, for pistols, i honestly prefer Rabid amulet…. having 1500 toughness, and pistol shots pircing, with Sigil of Earth, and Burn trait….. i just love seeing ALL of those 110’s fly out….

plus the AE procs on each target pirced, and can effectivley proc your burn/bleed on crit aswell, which is why i prefer the Rabid amulet, i like high toughness / prec / condi

just my preference though…. ive done rampagers, but i feel like i get worked in a flash without a good amount of toughness… having high toughness easily helps me negate those pesky thief openers, enough so to get some range and widdle them down quickly.